farmers for action - UK Indymedia

and what do the cows get out of this?

21.07.2012 17:12

Male calves after being born ripped from their mother's sides and shot or exported being of zero use to the filthy dairy industry, mother's endlessly impregnated, knackered and slaughtered after a life of shite, disgusting. Fuck the dairy farmers and their 'protest'.

V for Vegan

Yes yes

21.07.2012 19:13

Thankyou for that V for Vegan. Really helpful.

Anyway once again we are shown just how the food system puts profit before all other concerns.

Dan Factor

Greens Suckers!

21.07.2012 20:51

Jenny Jones of Greens on london Assembly has called on the Green party to support the Uk dairy farmers.
The greens are no doubt milking this one for what it's worth!
Oh! you do know Jenny Jones is on the Met Police Authority,crazy times!!
Bring back David Icke!!

Con Fused

Why do the extremist vegans have to troll this arguement?

22.07.2012 03:37

The farmers are working hard and gettting ripped off, they want a fair wage, more money for them would also mean improved facilities for the livestock,
why not take the inititive to say "hey i am a vegan but I will support the farmer as a member of the working class, and as someone taking industrial action" maybe if you take the time to listen to somebody, setting an example of understanding, they will learn somthing too.
I don't smoke or drink, but I don't go around preaching about it.

the 'Animal Liberation' people personally I feel are deluded, and its people like you who ruined punk rock back in the early 80s and activism, your so pushy, you bully other people who don't want to drink soya milk, and you wonder why the social centres and demos are so lame.

for goodness sake!

bled dry

22.07.2012 10:16

The cows are working hard and gettting ripped off then killed. Stuff the farmers.

me

For animal welfare and ethical standards in meat and dairy...

22.07.2012 14:23

...not people whose main aim is to guilt trip (at best, threaten and coerce at worse) people into going vegan.

not a vegan

Taking the Argument out of the Barn

22.07.2012 15:15

The size of the bovine population is an ecological not an economical parameter, consensus on which precedes consensus on its treatment.

Outsider

@not a vegan

22.07.2012 16:30

Ethical killing! .. sounds the life! NOT. So sick how the most violent predators on the planet treat the non-human family that we share earth with. Keep your bigger cages.

broken cages

Well, "broken cages", what do you plan to do?

22.07.2012 17:09

I am not going to give in to any guilt trips, threats or coercion, and will continue to be "speciesist" (as you militant vegans so eloquently put it) and proud of it. End of.

For all those other animal rightists, if meat and dairy is going to exist (and as long as people aren't forced to go vegan under threat of punishment, it will), it's only reasonable it exists in the least worst way possible. Face facts, 99.3% of the UK population aren't vegan, nor do they intend to be.

not a vegan

a rich vegan is a still a cunt!

22.07.2012 21:17

if you cant find solidarity with the farmers, don't bother commenting on it. cows die everyday from exploitation, i don't care.

why dont' you preach your vegan manifesto to DPRK, and see how long you last.

work on the real issue.
do you want to remove barriers betweens speicies, then try to work on class issues afterwards?
a rich vegan is a still a cunt!

bob face

All you militant vegans...

22.07.2012 22:44

Why don't you just go back to daydreaming about the day that will never come when all us nasty speciesists are all hung from lampposts for our heinous crimes against the animals?

C for Carnivore

@Carnivore

23.07.2012 11:11

Are you implying the reason why this debate is so tense is that there are war criminals hiding among the butchers?

does not matter

I'm implying...

23.07.2012 12:12

That a good number of "militant" vegans would love to see anyone who isn't vegan (and refuses to do so) 'strung up', as they are seen as on a par with fascists, if not lower.

The feeling's mutual, BTW.

C for Carnivore

cowards

23.07.2012 12:41

Jesus, the master-race are getting hot under the collar in these comments when their ultra-violent dominance is challenged. Stop picking on animals just because you class them as a sub-specie.

human but not predator

"Stop picking on animals..."

23.07.2012 13:28

Or else what? C'mon, let's have it out then, tell use what you want to do with "speciseist scum" like me.

not scared of vegano-fascists

"speciseist scum"

23.07.2012 14:06

who said that? Paranoid? You Mad?

There you go

why cow's milk?

23.07.2012 17:40

I'm confused. Why would an adult human being drink the milk of a cow? Cow's milk is for calves, it contains the nutrients a calf needs to develop enough before moving on to eating grass.
A human woman's breast milk is for human babies, containing the nutrients a baby needs until it can eat solid food. Would we expect a woman to feed other animals with her milk? I don't see a difference.
Also, humans don't need milk once they can eat solids. It seems to be a holding on to babyhood to still need milk.

a vegan

Eating meat is legal

23.07.2012 17:46

you have no right to stop what people have done for thousands of years

law abiding citizen

@confused vegan

23.07.2012 17:58

Many villagers in Africa and other developing countries rely on cows and goats milk to survive. Without milk - many people would die because it contains many important nutrients for our survival. Throughout the world, there are more than 6 billion consumers of milk and milk products, the majority of them in developing countries.

Max

@ "a vegan"

23.07.2012 18:09

"Why would an adult human being drink the milk of a cow?... humans don't need milk once they can eat solids. It seems to be a holding on to babyhood to still need milk."

Your argument is hypersentimental, and from cloud cuckoo land, ignoring the complex history of humanity and how they ended up, for good or for ill (at the time, mostly for good) consuming the milk of other animals, in some cases for millennia. There's much more to it than "holding on to babyhood", you just think that to justify being smug and morally superior to non-vegans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dairy_farming#History for those who want to know more than vegan fundamentalist propaganda.

another of the 99.3% of the UK population that's not vegan

You really are thick

23.07.2012 18:32

if you think drinking cows milk is good for you. Those inbred cow rapist farmer cunts can fuck off and die. See how fat and sick the chinese have become since their idiot government started brainwashing them to drink cows milk to become more western. Humans are naturally vegan-there is no argument.
If you can live a healthy life without enslaving, raping, torturing, mutilating and murdering another species then fucking do it.

someone

Again with the emotive denounciations

23.07.2012 19:22

What if I refuse to do what "someone" tells me to, and carry one doing the evil things that I'm accused of? What will he and his whiter-than-white "animal rights" brethren do? I'm so scared... NOT.

not a vegan

@not a vegan

23.07.2012 19:48

It's about compassion and heart, being a grown up. Animals should not be interfered with full stop let alone be bred for exploitation, just the life force you and I have but in different bodies that don't look like ours, no reason to abuse them in a thousand different ways, it's like wanting to use or kill someone because they're black and you're white or vice versa.

Animal rights? NO. Animal liberation? YES.

"Animals should not be interfered with full stop"

23.07.2012 19:59

Unfortunately the only way that's going to occur is if every member of the human race was to be killed (which I gather many animal rightists would approve of). Even growing crops comes at the expense of many other plants and animals, in fact breathing results in the demise of millions of bacteria.

Anyway, I'm not vegan, not going to go vegan, and there's nothing you can do about it.

not a vegan

typical

23.07.2012 20:04

response from not a vegan-sexist brainwashed idiot assuming I am a he. And not realising that humans are part of the "animal rights" s/he derides in their moronic post. Perhaps s/he is a farmer who makes their living from utter torture and murder and wants to justify it by making shit up. Proper hard people aren't you farmers-killing those can't fight back.

someone

not typical - giving as good as I take

23.07.2012 21:27

So many assumptions here:

"sexist brainwashed idiot" What does gender have to do with animal rights??? No wait, it's the poor cow being "exploited" - but then as was mentioned earlier, male dairy calves are slaughtered at birth. That has nothing to do with my attitude towards female humans. As for "brainwashed", that's a typical ad hominem attack used when one hasn't got any other response to criticism.

"humans are part of the 'animal rights' " What about the human right to not be vegan? At best suffering of animals only has a limited indirect impact on human rights, one can be relatively free of most other forms of oppression.

"Perhaps s/he is a farmer" WROOOOONG! Try again, here's a clue: NOT part of any government agency, intelligence service, police force, or farmer's lobby.

You animal rightists are a total joke.

not a vegan

@not a vegan

23.07.2012 22:15

Foamfest? Let's 'ave it!

not a brute

Thats the biz sweetheart

23.07.2012 22:53

Its interesting to see the various switches of strategy in the "vegan" argument

Cycles through persuasive, then angry talk, then the guilt-trip, then threats, then no-platform to human existence.

1) You can not eat meat and drink milk if you want. I can. Everyone is an adult. No one is 'brainwashed' !
2) No one goes around telling vegans what they can and can't eat.
3) Vegan is unnatural. Our evolution is based on a proportion of meat in our diet. Look at all our evolutionary cousins, every ape eats some meat. Our bodies has evolved for millions of years based on those diets. To suddenly change to lentils is unnatural.

The other aspect you are forgetting is "being realistic". Over 99% of people eat eat/diary.
Lions eat zebras. Cats eat mice. Birds eat worms. If you don't LIKE how nature works, well - you are living in a fantasy land of unicorns and talking rabbits.

People eat meat and drink milk because we are humans.
If we weren't meant to eat cows, they wouldn't be made of food.

prosecution rests

Prosecution rests in bullshit

24.07.2012 00:30

seriously, have you listened to what you consider to be yourself?

council for the oppressed

This is about milk, not meat.

24.07.2012 07:07

Yes, I choose not to eat meat, but recognise and appreciate that I'm lucky to live in a wealthy country where I can choose to leave out meat and not die of hunger or malnutrition. I don't eat meat because of the conveyor-belt mass production and slaughter of animals.
But this discussion is about milk. Whoever posted about milk being absolutely critical in developing world diets, is missing the point that many developing countries have mono-cultures which provide soya for our bio-fuels and for feeding our cattle. The policy of growing single crops for export, erodes the nutrients in the soil, year in, year out. In areas where efforts have been made to focus on crop diversity for local consumption, health has improved. So yes, where all that's available is milk, it will save lives. I happen to think people deserve better than 'all that's available'. They have to rely on that while we continue to drive cars, fly off on holiday, eat beef raised on rainforest-cleared land.

a vegan

Proof if it were needed

24.07.2012 10:09

The demented ramblings here from non Vegans prove once and for all that all forms of animal consumption must be banned by law. If people are too stupid or arrogant not to adopt the natural Vegan lifestyle after being provided with enough information to make the right choice then they must be forced by legislation.

The argument is made, right has spoken, other views are irrelevant.

vegan

re: "all forms of animal consumption must be banned by law"

24.07.2012 15:05

Fortunately (in my case) you are of a very small minority, so just try and stop us!!!

we are the 99.3%

@we are the 99.3%

24.07.2012 16:02

Poor you! Spiritually, emotionally and ethically dead, what a hoot!

whitewash

I just love

24.07.2012 17:10

the smug, self-righteous, pretentious, moralistic preaching coming from the vegan fundamentalists. It just proves how strong your argument is when all you can do is continually send volley after volley of ad hominem attacks to those who don't subscribe your oh-so-wonderful beliefs. Keep up the work, you are doing veganism a great service!

yet another non-vegan

Orders must be obeyed at all times with question

24.07.2012 19:55

>> The demented ramblings here from non Vegans prove once and for all that all forms of animal consumption must be banned by law.
- You mean the logical arguments.
- How does it "prove" anything? Eating meat and diary is a choice.
- Banned by law!??? Why???!

>> If people are too stupid or arrogant not to adopt the natural Vegan lifestyle after being provided with enough information to make the right choice then they must be forced by legislation.
Well.... I choose to reject your hysteria rantings by ignoring your orders.
So what are you going to do now? How are you going to force me to obey your law?

>> The argument is made, right has spoken, other views are irrelevant.
Perhaps you could paint a flag and wear an armband, carry an MP40 and adopt a strange walk and small moustache. Maybe if you put tanks on every street corner and shoot my family dead, maybe then i will listen to your orders.

In the meantime, I have the urge to feed you a steak under my law which must be followed without question.

a worthless worm who's opinion doesn't count

Respect their right to be vegan...

24.07.2012 20:09

>I have the urge to feed you a steak under my law which must be followed without question.

Thus making you no better than these vegans whom want to force their rules on anyone. If they don't want to eat dead animals then fine, no skin off my nose.

...more dead animals for us!

Taste buds

24.07.2012 20:13

You can feel the violence in the comments here by the fanatical meat/dairy consumers. They know deep down that their choice to satisfy their warped taste buds causes unblievable pain and suffering and incredible environmetal damage. So they hit out at others for daring to speak the truth and protect other species. They hate themselves but need to vent their anger at themselves by spouting shit at real humans.
You can live a more healthy life without torturing and killing others but our system, cleverly manipulated, thrives on violence towards all species.
Vegan food is natural and tasty-try it and distance yourself from the violent madmen who control us-for now.

EG

Ah

24.07.2012 20:20

the great british left, you can't beat em, making sure evolution is put on hold every fucking time. The british right are no better either. Maybe each side could eat each other and do us all a favour.

militant vegan

Violence?

24.07.2012 20:38

What, like:

"Those inbred cow rapist farmer cunts can fuck off and die. See how fat and sick the chinese have become..."

"...all forms of animal consumption must be banned by law. If people are too stupid or arrogant not to adopt the natural Vegan lifestyle after being provided with enough information to make the right choice then they must be forced by legislation."

Oh you mean animals? Maybe we should execute all the cats too, considering how they take glee in the torturing to death of anything within its reach...

BTW if you are serious about wanting the whole world to go vegan then pray tell us how you plan to go about it, AFAIK there are two tactics you tend to use: guilt tripping, and failing that, (attempts at) intimidation. You animal rights lot aren't really known for your pacifism, let's be honest...

not vegan, not feeling guilty

It's here!

24.07.2012 20:57

The right class people of colour as lower than them and therefore want to kill them, the left class animals as lower than them but let others do the killing for them.

make your own assumptions

Is it worth it?

24.07.2012 21:10

Rather than risking violence and a possible world war (which vegans would lose due to sheer lack of numbers)

Cant we just all get along and eat what we want?
That way nobody would be stepping on anyone else's toes.

anon

re: "can't we just all get along"

24.07.2012 21:22

Unfortunately all non-vegans are evil "speciesist" animal torturers and murderers, and therefore that MUST die if they do not repent.

The only hope is that vegans whom subscribe to this remain in the tiny, tiny minority (even among their fellow vegans). I for one won't be having nightmares.

a nice person for an animal murderer

No change thanks

24.07.2012 21:57

I don't want to be Vegan. Its my choice to make - not yours.

I am not allowed to hunt like a hunter from ancient times with a spear because of the law.
Therefore, my only option is to buy meat from the local, friendly butcher.
This is a system that has worked for many, many years without any problems.
I see little reason to change it.

I also don't like black coffee or tea. Some i need milk because i can't drink it black.

Keep it real

what about cereal?

24.07.2012 22:02

totally pointless to try and eat cereal for breakfast without milk
obviously these vegans havn't bothered thinking this trough

trent

Eat what you want

24.07.2012 22:07

Go on - try catching anything naturally, Try biting it if you do ever do catch it. Can't-there's a clue as to your diet. Oh hang on-you think as you can use your superiour brain power to catch and kill then it's fine. Well then I can use my brain power to kill you or create nuclear weapons that will destroy the planet. Or I could use my brain to live in harmony with nature. But that does't compute with the violent meat eaters who will kill (humans too) to defend their taste buds.
The violent will defend their violence by violence.

Lop

and before you mention soya "milk"...

24.07.2012 22:26

- It mostly comes from South America, on land that was once rainforest (food miles!)*
- It's mostly GM
- Most importantly, I can't stand the taste of it, and neither do a lot of people.

*Oh and before you go on about soya being fed to livestock, note it's BEEF cattle they do this too AFAIK, not dairy (it's to fatten them up, a pointless exercise in dairy). Either way non-vegans can (and should) get beef and milk from cows that have been just fed on grass.

not a vegan

Another non vegan here

24.07.2012 22:27

I've dropped dairy and red meats recently due to some persistent health problems (eczma, lactose intolerance). Feel a lot better now. Whilst not a conversion to vegan, I get the point - the shit isn't good for you.

ktf

Evidence?

24.07.2012 22:44

"the violent meat eaters who will kill (humans too) to defend their taste buds."

Give me examples of times when us savage meat eaters have gone out with the intention of hunting down and killing vegan humans, especially those who call for the abolition of meat and dairy. Other than a few small tribes that used to practice cannibalism (and their victims were probably not vegan either).

"try catching anything naturally,"

Well long ago we used something called teamwork in order to chase down anything that we could catch, as was the case with our evolutionary ancestors, the chimpanzees. Yes we gradually developed better and better tools for the job but that's human ingenuity for you. Try reading up on anthropology. If we stuck to just living of the plant kingdom, we would probably be nowhere as successful in terms of our ability to (mostly) adapt as a species - although I gather many vegans on here wish we weren't anyway.

Back then "violence" had nothing to do with why humans ate meat, it was a survival situation, utilising whatever food source was available to us. Granted that's not really the case now, but humans are no more "violent" than many other animals on this planet - and I'd argue that one can be quite, quite violent without ever touching any form of meat.

"evil", "speciesist" omnivore

Easy peasy, a 11yo cub-scout could do it

25.07.2012 14:57

>>Go on - try catching anything naturally, Try biting it if you do ever do catch it.
lol! sounds like someone who has never done any hunting or had a camp fire!

So if you were on a desert island stranded, you wouldn't be able to catch food? Is that what you are saying. Well, thats natural selection. You would die off and not be part of the human race evolution. Just because you cant catch food, doesn't mean other humans cant

Snares, spears, bow and arrow, fishing nets. Go and do some research.
Hunter/Gatherers. Try walking down a beach and not being able to find food with your bare hands. What about honey from bees. And nearly all apes eat some form of animals. Why should we be any different?

magpie

What about Eskimos?

25.07.2012 14:59

They don't eat "plants" because there arnt any
They fish and hunt

If we were to ban meat, then they would die. And if you just allowed them to eat meat, but no-one else, then you are racist.

You havnt though this through.

Paulo

@magpie

26.07.2012 11:42

because we can make an informed choice and have lots of alternatives to suffering to choose from, that's how we are different. So simple.

stating the blindingly obvious