Demonstrations on Armed Forces Day?

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Field Commander Frank says

07.06.2012 22:20

Let us jump on the bonnets of white stretch limo's!

Splottski

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Why no support ?

08.06.2012 05:48

Because the British people understand that those who choose to put their lives at risk to protect the rest of us deserve respect and thanks.

There is no conscription in this country, people make a choice to serve and as much as some on the Left would like to portray that choice as one of economic desperation the facts do not support that.

By the way do you know that during WW2 soldiers returning from Dunkirk were booed by members of the UK Communist Party, seems like some people never learn.

Frank

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Protect us!?

08.06.2012 08:25

"Because the British people understand that those who choose to put their lives at risk to protect the rest of us"
Protect us against what exactly?

Not so sure about all British people really "understanding" why we are "there in the first place". I think most ordinary people are largely indifferent to meaninful political thought- they tend to simply soak up pro war propaganda pumped out by mainstream media. Most people are too stressed and busy with thier own work/life schedules to devote much time to actualy thinking straight about the reasons why we are constantly at work with foreign countries. This is natural, the mainstream news media have a tight grip over mainstream TV and so when people after a hard stressful day at work come home switch on the goggle box to soak up the soaps, they would have had a fair bit of pro-war news preceding this. Then they pick up a copy of the Sun or Mail and fill thier heads full of rightwing pro-war propaganda about going to war to protect Britain. Its easy to soak up. Yes, to protect Britain as in Britian's interests, i.e. Britiains big business interests, but not the ordianry peoples' interests. But big business etc needs popular support gained by deception, not by the truth. If people know the real truth, they would not lend support to wars and the average Joe would think twice about joining up as cannon fodder for imperialism. However the average Joe doesnt do that much thinking apart from "Call of Duty" and playstation, football and beer, and even may find kiling for money quite attractive, after all there is not a lot in civvy street apart from workfare these days. So many young lads see the armed forces as something quite attractive....its something to do, you get less messed about in the army, theres a bit of comarade, if someone is sick, you get a replacement ....yes thats true, if your mate gets killed, you get a replacement, you get a bit more certainty in a job, i.e you'll be there tomorrow, and not just in a job and kicked out the next day, and of course, a pension and decent pay packet which beats the minimum wage. You could also come back in a body bag, but then thats the life of a mercenary of hired soldier. Most do it for economic reasons, as there is little there for them in civvy street. They dont think much about politics. If they knew the real truth, they would most likely steer clear of the armed forces. But getting the truth out to the broad masses is not easy. The rightwing pro war media is very powerful in Britain. There is nothing wrong in defending ones country - for the right reasons, for ordinary people;s root interests and not just to prop up an elitist and corrupt ruling class on the backs of ordinary people. Why pick the chestnuts out the fire for that that lot at the top? Bring the troops home and defend the borders. Imperialist aggressession wins Britain very few freinds overseas.

Fb

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For 'Fb'

08.06.2012 08:37

"Protect us against what exactly? "

Sorry you are not aware of the current world geopolitical instability there 'Fb'. May I suggest one of the major news organisations where you will be able to see the current state of the planet and the wide and various threats faced by us.

Do please come back to me if you are unfamiliar with how internet search engines work.

Frank

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"Fb" you patronising git

08.06.2012 09:02

Has it never occurred to you that many join the armed services because they want to serve others, because they feel an obligation to their fellow man, because they have a sense of duty to the wider population ?

I'm sick of hearing how soldiers are all stupid and poor who join up because they can't do any better or don;t understand the realities of what they are getting into. In my experience based on speaking with many of the fine young men and women serving with my brother that is not the case.

I was particularly moved by a man in my brothers troop who joined the Army after the London bombings who told me his reason for joining up,

"I thought my God, this war has come to my city. I'm young, fit and able I should do something to protect those who are unable to do so.

People better than you "Fb" are fighting today, right now, this moment to keep you safe to slag them off on your keyboard.

Think About That

brother of soldier

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@Frank

08.06.2012 09:14

your seriously having a laugh arent you....since you assume (i cant think how) i am unaware of the current geopolitical situation, maybe you can enlighten us all on here. Maybe there is something i have missed out. Maybe you can suggest a reliable major news organisation after all. Would CNN or Fox, do? Or maybe BBC or ITV? They are reliable and unbiased and teling nothing but the truth arent they? Maybe the Daily Mail or the Sun? They are all major media sources. They tell the truth all the time dont they? They all seem to agree that men with long beards, dark skin and women with veils tend to be the latest fashionable threat to our way of life and our democracy we love to tout so much about and musilms are all suicide mad bombers. Or maybe its the North Koreans who may want to invade America and introduce regime change and democracy there, because they see America as a threat to their way of life. Maybe the north koreans may even want to drop bombs on london to intrduce their democracy and bring about regime change in Britain. Or maybe Russia is a threat once again. Are you the type that finks "all commies should go back to Russia where they belong"?What do you think Frank?

fb

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@Dear brother of soldier

08.06.2012 11:04

So why havnt you followed suit and joined the army like your brother? Why aren’t you infected by a sense of duty like your brother? Maybe you have a cosy little decent paid office job where you can pinch time to waste on posting pseudo patriotic nonsense on here or some other excuse. Think about that.

fb

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For 'Fb' re why haven't I joined up

08.06.2012 13:00

So why havnt you followed suit and joined the army like your brother? Why aren’t you infected by a sense of duty like your brother? Maybe you have a cosy little decent paid office job where you can pinch time to waste on posting pseudo patriotic nonsense on here or some other excuse. Think about that.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Because I'm a wheelchair user and although it's none of your business I make my living as a commercial artist helping young people to overcome challenges in their life through paint and sculpture. Trust me when I say my studio is far from a "cosy little decent paid office job"

I share my brothers' sense of duty however I serve in another way. Perhaps as you raised the point you would be kind enough to let others here know what you do for the community, I'm sure it is extensive, worthwhile and relevant.

brother of soldier

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Tricked ?

08.06.2012 13:10

Tricked ? I think not my patronising friend.

"....to make gullible patriotic young men such as him pick up a gun and go kill people for monetary interest..."

Gullible ? Because he (and indeed I) has a view of the world that differs from yours ?

The very fact that you use the phrase,

"pick up a gun and go kill people for monetary interest" shows how you fundamentally misunderstand the mindset of a soldier. I have yet to meet a soldier who wants to kill and the idea that they are motivated by money is simply laughable (the average Private would see something like a 20% salary increase by becoming a traffic warden for example).

In my DIRECT experience of volunteer British soldiers they are motivated by a feeling of honour, duty and a wish to serve others. Motivations that drive others to become nurses, firefighters or lifeboatmen. I would suggest you visit an Army base, go for an open day and speak with the young men and women, they are some of the most remarkable people this country produces.

brother of soldier

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they are some of the most remarkable people this country produces.

08.06.2012 13:13

Well said.

Applauding Very Loudly

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@brother

08.06.2012 14:00

"'pick up a gun and go kill people for monetary interest' shows how you fundamentally misunderstand the mindset of a soldier. I have yet to meet a soldier who wants to kill and the idea that they are motivated by money is simply laughable (the average Private would see something like a 20% salary increase by becoming a traffic warden for example)."

"In my DIRECT experience of volunteer British soldiers they are motivated by a feeling of honour, duty and a wish to serve others."

You really got the wrong end of the stick there. I'm sure many soldiers are motivated by a sense of honour etc, but the point being made was that this is a MISGUIDED sense of honour, that those soldiers have been conned into fighting on behalf of SOMEONE ELSE'S 'monetary interests'. I don't think anyone was seriously suggesting all soldiers are only in it for the cash!

The fact that many soldiers THINK they are doing the right thing only makes the whole thing even more sickening and wrong really.

To those who really think soldiers are some kind of heroic protectors... doesn't that description fit equally well, if not better, to the people they are fighting against, eg Afghan insurgents? After all, they are genuinely resisting an invading army, whereas we have no such excuse.

anon

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Is it national patronising day ?

08.06.2012 14:18

"The fact that many soldiers THINK they are doing the right thing only makes the whole thing even more sickening and wrong really."

Wow, that is a hell of a statement to make. Let me correct you as you seem so keen to push your opinion onto others. Contrary to the views held by any in what for the sake of convenience I will call the Left the majority of soldiers that I served with were well informed, generally better educated academically than many of their contemporaries, well aware of the way they were SOMETIMES used for political ends and not in any way misinformed as to their role. They understood perfectly what they were doing.

When I stood in a village in what was once Yugoslavia and knew with an absolute certainty that it was me and my mates that had stopped the Serbs killing any more of the women and children in that village I knew I was doing the right thing. A former Second Lieutenant that I served with helped as a company commander to stop the massacres in Sierra Leone, people are alive today because of what I did then and I will always have that and petty sniping from people who do nothing but know everything with never change that.

Before you post again with your patronising comments take the time to examine your life, look at the freedoms you have in this country, the free education, the free health service, the right to vote out of power a government you don't like, the knowledge your sister or daughter can marry who she likes and can wear what she wants.

Somewhere and some time a soldier fought to ensure you have that. He or she might even have died to ensure you have them. At least have the manners to recognise that.

ex soldier

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O please !

08.06.2012 14:23

"Somewhere and some time a soldier fought to ensure you have that. He or she might even have died to ensure you have them. "

Well Boo Hoo ! Some football loving squadie gets his head blown off after taking the 'queens shilling' Fuck him, who cares.

anon

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@brother of soldier

08.06.2012 14:35

“Because he (and indeed I) has a view of the world that differs from yours ?”
“motivated by a feeling of honour, duty and a wish to serve others”

Totally agree. Differing world views, differing actions.
Your brother is motivated by a feeling of honour, duty and a wish to serve others, but in reality serves imperialism and Britain’s ruling class.
I am a communist with a differing world view motivated by a feeling of honour, duty and a wish to serve others – the working people. You’ll be surprised how many remarkable people there are in Britain who would dearly love to spend their lives doing something good for others, without having to kill others in the process. But alas under capitalism, peoples lives are often destroyed by unemployment, poverty and a system that fails working people in general. There is no certainty in the morrow. Here is one reason some young people maybe motivated to joining the armed forces. A friend of mine was in the army for a number of years, got a divorce from his partner, bought himself out of the army, spend a few months on civvy street and said it was crap on civvy street and re joined the army. Then he left it again after 5 years. He left Britian for good and now lives oversea. He says Britain is crap. I think anyone who wants to be a copper or traffic warden is an arsehole brown noser, coz thats the kind of arses that want to join summat like the cops, to feel power and brainwash themselves into believing they are actually “do something good for the community” . Imperialism’s servants i call them, the foot soldiers that do all the dirty work for the government –the legal mafia. My father was in the army for 25 years, ex RSM, decent fellow and all that, served NATO etc, brainwashed by anti-communist propaganda in the army, but you know, even he said the army was differnt now, crap and wouldnt want anyone to join it these days coz they would be sent out to be cannon fodder for the goverment. Friends I know wanted to join up in the 80-s, and he advised against it....saying, they’ll send you to Northern Ireland, ...not worth it mate. Even i myself in early teens throught wow sounds ok in the army, join the engineers or summat, learn new skills coz there was nothing on civvy street, all jobs and apprentiships had gone down the pan. He said the same to me. He said if you join, there is a chance you’ll be sent out to a war thats not even ours and killed....so many young people needlessly killed in the name of what? Noone is attacking us on our shores. That was an RSM talking.

fb

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It is you who are confused

08.06.2012 14:50

You wrote above here,

"Your brother is motivated by a feeling of honour, duty and a wish to serve others, but in reality serves imperialism and Britain’s ruling class. "

He doesn't, you just think he does because it matches and reinforces your political viewpoint.

The military are the servants of the people not the ruling class (don't worry I don't expect you to understand why) and the Imperialism argument only makes sense if you think that the wars Britain is currently involved in are Imperialist ones, which they are not although again your political belief ensure you think that because otherwise your political structural analysis is instantly flawed.

Like most things in the political spectrum this is a matter of education, the weakness of Communism (and for that matter its logical conclusion; Anarchism) is that it relies on people reaching a certain standard of political thought and then saying,

"OK that's enough, I don't need to consider any other views"

brother of soldier

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I spot today's Indy liar and claim my money

08.06.2012 14:57

"My father was in the army for 25 years, ex RSM"

No he wasn't you are telling fibs you naughty little boy. Go and read what you wrote before and then you can see how I know that.

Money please

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OK I admit it he wasn't

08.06.2012 15:15

Well yes I was trying my luck there a little :-)

But my point stays the same, if you join the army you are not that bright and are brainwashed by the UK media. It sounds as though your brother is just a bit dim and if as is likely he gets killed by a Taliban freedom fighter in real terms he will have deserved it.

fb

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@above

08.06.2012 15:19

Errr hello, i think i know how long he served 23 not 25 and when he retired which you dont....so no money for you today. I'll enlighten you...1969. Started his working life in the coal pits at 14 years old up north. Conscripted into army after working as a furniture remover, stayed on in army, and extended his service. Ok ?

fb

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For 'fb'

08.06.2012 15:25

When trolling Indy it's best to be consistent in your lies otherwise you end up looking like a prat, that's apart from the prat you look by trolling of course.

Here's an idea why not go back to playing "Soldier of Fortune" or whatever is on your X-Box and leave Indy to the grown ups. "Brother of a Soldier" is making you look a bit stupid and the rest of us are laughing at you.

Laughing

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I know where you live

08.06.2012 15:38

Don't threaten me I know where you live.

fb

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For fb

08.06.2012 15:39

However, I do take your point. You are right. My brother is quite dim really, i don’t think he got many qualifications in school. The army was his escape route.

Laughing

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Above post not from me

08.06.2012 15:42

Looks like poor old FB is imploding !!!!!!

Laughing

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Mods, please hide these posts

08.06.2012 15:45

The IP logs show that 'brother of soldier, 'FB' and anon together with a number of other names here are all the same person so please hide the comments and let's just have the original post

Thanks

MOD ALERT

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Above post was from me

08.06.2012 15:50

Above post was from me, i was telling little porkies

The thing is i got rattled when I learned that not all soldiers are brown nosers and the RSM in question has a valid point, although it hurts to realise many people like myself have been brainwashed by pro war propaganda.

Laughing

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get real

08.06.2012 16:46

>> Have you considered that part of the geopolitical instablility may be due to the fact that the British Armed Froces have bravely invaded afghanistan four times? Or the fact that since oil was discovered in Iraq 101 years ago the British have been at war with or occupying the country for 51 years?

Are you saying that we shouldn't give a shit about protecting our supply lines of oil?
I feel that would be totally stupid. We don't have oil supplies of our own so it is essential we make sure that the supply agreements with other countries are protected given all the unrest in the middle-east

dont want to be cold at winter and freeze to death

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oil supplies

08.06.2012 21:03

"Have you considered that part of the geopolitical instablility may be due to the fact that the British Armed Froces have bravely invaded afghanistan four times? Or the fact that since oil was discovered in Iraq 101 years ago the British have been at war with or occupying the country for 51 years? "

I would consider oil to be very important to this country, so can only support the idea that we must protect our supplies. Otherwise where would we get it?
These countries aren't using the oil, it would just remain in the ground. So by making an agreement where we buy it off them makes everyone a winner. Why cant these people see this?

Max

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hidden...

09.06.2012 03:18

...was it really nessacary to hide ALL the (albeit slightly troll like) comments in support of the armed forces?

Ether

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@oil looter

09.06.2012 17:33

Because we are the future.

M.O.R.I.T.Z.