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Concerning the Violent Peace-Police: An Open Letter to Chris Hedges

David Graeber | 10.02.2012 20:08 | Occupy Everywhere | World

In response to “The Cancer in Occupy,” by Chris Hedges.
 http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_cancer_of_occupy_20120206/

Black Bloc at Occupy Oakland, November 2, 2011. From bluecinema.
Black Bloc at Occupy Oakland, November 2, 2011. From bluecinema.


I am writing this on the premise that you are a well-meaning person who wishes Occupy Wall Street to succeed. I am also writing as someone who was deeply involved in the early stages of planning Occupy in New York.

I am also an anarchist who has participated in many Black Blocs. While I have never personally engaged in acts of property destruction, I have on more than one occasion taken part in Blocs where property damage has occurred. (I have taken part in even more Blocs that did not engage in such tactics. It is a common fallacy that this is what Black Blocs are all about. It isn’t.)

I was hardly the only Black Bloc veteran who took part in planning the initial strategy for Occupy Wall Street. In fact, anarchists like myself were the real core of the group that came up with the idea of occupying Zuccotti Park, the “99%” slogan, the General Assembly process, and, in fact, who collectively decided that we would adopt a strategy of Gandhian non-violence and eschew acts of property damage. Many of us had taken part in Black Blocs. We just didn’t feel that was an appropriate tactic for the situation we were in.

This is why I feel compelled to respond to your statement “The Cancer in Occupy.” This statement is not only factually inaccurate, it is quite literally dangerous. This is the sort of misinformation that really can get people killed. In fact, it is far more likely to do so, in my estimation, than anything done by any black-clad teenager throwing rocks.

Let me just lay out a few initial facts:

1. Black Bloc is a tactic, not a group. It is a tactic where activists don masks and black clothing (originally leather jackets in Germany, later, hoodies in America), as a gesture of anonymity, solidarity, and to indicate to others that they are prepared, if the situation calls for it, for militant action. The very nature of the tactic belies the accusation that they are trying to hijack a movement and endanger others. One of the ideas of having a Black Bloc is that everyone who comes to a protest should know where the people likely to engage in militant action are, and thus easily be able to avoid it if that’s what they wish to do.

2. Black Blocs do not represent any specific ideological, or for that matter anti-ideological position. Black Blocs have tended in the past to be made up primarily of anarchists but most contain participants whose politics vary from Maoism to Social Democracy. They are not united by ideology, or lack of ideology, but merely a common feeling that creating a bloc of people with explicitly revolutionary politics and ready to confront the forces of the order through more militant tactics if required, is, on the particular occasion when they assemble, a useful thing to do. It follows one can no more speak of “Black Bloc Anarchists,” as a group with an identifiable ideology, than one can speak of “Sign-Carrying Anarchists” or “Mic-Checking Anarchists.”

3. Even if you must select a tiny, ultra-radical minority within the Black Bloc and pretend their views are representative of anyone who ever put on a hoodie, you could at least be up-to-date about it. It was back in 1999 that people used to pretend “the Black Bloc” was made up of nihilistic primitivist followers of John Zerzan opposed to all forms of organization. Nowadays, the preferred approach is to pretend “the Black Bloc” is made up of nihilistic insurrectionary followers of The Invisible Committee, opposed to all forms of organization. Both are absurd slurs. Yours is also 12 years out of date.

4. Your comment about Black Bloc’ers hating the Zapatistas is one of the weirdest I’ve ever seen. Sure, if you dig around, you can find someone saying almost anything. But I’m guessing that, despite the ideological diversity, if you took a poll of participants in the average Black Bloc and asked what political movement in the world inspired them the most, the EZLN would get about 80% of the vote. In fact I’d be willing to wager that at least a third of participants in the average Black Bloc are wearing or carrying at least one item of Zapatista paraphernalia. (Have you ever actually talked to someone who has taken part in a Black Bloc? Or just to people who dislike them?)

5. “Diversity of tactics” is not a “Black Bloc” idea. The original GA in Tompkins Square Park that planned the original occupation, if I remember, adopted the principle of diversity of tactics (at least it was discussed in a very approving fashion), at the same time as we all also concurred that a Gandhian approach would be the best way to go. This is not a contradiction: “diversity of tactics” means leaving such matters up to individual conscience, rather than imposing a code on anyone. Partly,this is because imposing such a code invariably backfires. In practice, it means some groups break off in indignation and do even more militant things than they would have otherwise, without coordinating with anyone else—as happened, for instance, in Seattle. The results are usually disastrous. After the fiasco of Seattle, of watching some activists actively turning others over to the police—we quickly decided we needed to ensure this never happened again. What we found that if we declared “we shall all be in solidarity with one another. We will not turn in fellow protesters to the police. We will treat you as brothers and sisters. But we expect you to do the same to us”—then, those who might be disposed to more militant tactics will act in solidarity as well, either by not engaging in militant actions at all for fear they will endanger others (as in many later Global Justice Actions, where Black Blocs merely helped protect the lockdowns, or in Zuccotti Park, where mostly people didn’t bloc up at all) or doing so in ways that run the least risk of endangering fellow activists.

All this is secondary. Mainly I am writing as an appeal to conscience. Your conscience, since clearly you are a sincere and well-meaning person who wishes this movement to succeed. I beg you: Please consider what I am saying. Please bear in mind as I say this that I am not a crazy nihilist, but a reasonable person who is one (if just one) of the original authors of the Gandhian strategy OWS adopted—as well as a student of social movements, who has spent many years both participating in such movements, and trying to understand their history and dynamics.

I am appealing to you because I really do believe the kind of statement you made is profoundly dangerous.

The reason I say this is because, whatever your intentions, it is very hard to read your statement as anything but an appeal to violence. After all, what are you basically saying about what you call “Black Bloc anarchists”?

1) they are not part of us

2) they are consciously malevolent in their intentions

3) they are violent

4) they cannot be reasoned with

5) they are all the same

6) they wish to destroy us

7) they are a cancer that must be excised

Surely you must recognize, when it’s laid out in this fashion, that this is precisely the sort of language and argument that, historically, has been invoked by those encouraging one group of people to physically attack, ethnically cleanse, or exterminate another—in fact, the sort of language and argument that is almost never invoked in any other circumstance. After all, if a group is made up exclusively of violent fanatics who cannot be reasoned with, intent on our destruction, what else can we really do? This is the language of violence in its purest form. Far more than “fuck the police.” To see this kind of language employed by someone who claims to be speaking in the name of non-violence is genuinely extraordinary. I recognize that you’ve managed to find certain peculiar fringe elements in anarchism saying some pretty extreme things, it’s not hard to do, especially since such people are much easier to find on the internet than in real life, but it would be difficult to come up with any “Black Bloc anarchist” making a statement as extreme as this.

Even if you did not intend this statement as a call to violence, which I suspect you did not, how can you honestly believe that many will not read it as such?

In my experience, when I point this sort of thing out, the first reaction I normally get from pacifists is along the lines of “what are you talking about? Of course I’m not in favor of attacking anyone! I am non-violent! I am merely calling for non-violently confronting such elements and excluding them from the group!” The problem is that in practice this is almost never what actually happens. Time after time, what it has actually meant in practice is either a) turning fellow activists over to the police, i.e., turning them over to people with weapons who will physically assault, shackle, and imprison them, or b) actual physical activist-on-activist assault. Such things have happened. There have been physical assaults by activists on other activists, and, to my knowledge, they have never been perpetrated by anyone in Black Bloc, but invariably by purported pacifists against those who dare to pull a hood over their heads or a bandana over their faces, or, simply, against anarchists who adopt tactics someone else thinks are going too far. (Not I should note even potentially violent tactics. During one 15-minute period in Occupy Austin, I was threatened first with arrest, then with assault, by fellow campers because I was expressing verbal solidarity with, and then standing in passive resistance beside, a small group of anarchists who were raising what was considered to be an unauthorized tent.)

This situation often produces extraordinary ironies. In Seattle, the only incidents of actual physical assault by protesters on other individuals were not attacks on the police, since these did not occur at all, but attacks by “pacifists” on Black Bloc’ers engaged in acts of property damage. Since the Black Bloc’ers had collectively agreed on a strict policy of non-violence (which they defined as never doing anything to harm another living being), they uniformly refused to strike back. In many recent occupations, self-appointed “Peace Police” have manhandled activists who showed up to marches in black clothing and hoodies, ripped their masks off, shoved and kicked them: always, without the victims themselves having engaged in any act of violence, always, with the victims refusing, on moral grounds, to shove or kick back.

The kind of rhetoric you are engaging in, if it disseminates widely, will ensure this kind of violence becomes much, much more severe.

Perhaps you do not believe me, or do not believe these events to be particularly significant. If so, let me put the matter in a larger historical context.

If I understand your argument, it seems to come down to this:

1. OWS has been successful because it has followed a Gandhian strategy of showing how, even in the face of strictly non-violent opposition, the state will respond with illegal violence

2. Black Bloc elements who do not act according to principles of Gandhian non-violence are destroying the movement because they provide retroactive justification for state repression, especially in the eyes of the media

3. Therefore, the Black Bloc elements must be somehow rooted out.

As one of the authors of the original Gandhian strategy, I can recall how well aware we were, when we framed this strategy, that we were taking an enormous risk. Gandhian strategies have not historically worked in the US; in fact, they haven’t really worked on a mass scale since the civil rights movement. This is because the US media is simply constitutionally incapable of reporting acts of police repression as “violence.” (One reason the civil rights movement was an exception is so many Americans at the time didn’t view the Deep South as part of the same country.) Many of the young men and women who formed the famous Black Bloc in Seattle were in fact eco-activists who had been involved in tree-sits and forest defense lock-downs that operated on purely Gandhian principles—only to find that in the US of the 1990s, non-violent protesters could be brutalized, tortured (have pepper spray directly rubbed in their eyes), or even killed, without serious objection from the national media. So they turned to other tactics. We knew all this. We decided it was worth the risk.

However, we are also aware that when the repression begins, some will break ranks and respond with greater militancy. Even if this doesn’t happen in a systematic and organized fashion, some violent acts will take place. You write that Black Bloc’ers smashed up a “locally owned coffee shop”; I doubted this when I read it, since most Black Blocs agree on a strict policy of not damaging owner-operated enterprises, and I now find in Susie Cagle’s response to your article that, in fact, it was a chain coffee shop, and the property destruction was carried out by someone not in black. But still, you’re right: A few such incidents will inevitably occur.

The question is how one responds.

If the police decide to attack a group of protesters, they will claim to have been provoked, and the media will repeat whatever the police say, no matter how implausible, as the basic initial facts of what happened. This will happen whether or not anyone at the protest does anything that can be remotely described as violence. Many police claims will be obviously ridiculous – as at the recent Oakland march where police accused participants of throwing “improvised explosive devices”—but no matter how many times the police lie about such matters, the national media will still report their claims as true, and it will be up to protesters to provide evidence to the contrary. Sometimes, with the help of social media, we can demonstrate that particular police attacks were absolutely unjustified, as with the famous Tony Bologna pepper-spray incident. But we cannot by definition prove all police attacks were unjustified, even all attacks at one particular march; it’s simply physically impossible to film every thing that happens from every possible angle all the time. Therefore we can expect that whatever we do, the media will dutifully report “protesters engaged in clashes with police” rather than “police attacked non-violent protesters.” What’s more, when someone does throw back a tear-gas canister, or toss a bottle, or even spray-paint something, we can assume that act will be employed as retroactive justification for whatever police violence occurred before the act took place.

All this will be true whether or not a Black Bloc is present.

If the moral question is “is it defensible to threaten physical harm against those who do no direct harm to others,” one might say the pragmatic, tactical question is, “even if it were somehow possible to create a Peace Police capable of preventing any act that could even be interpreted as ‘violent’ by the corporate media, by anyone at or near a protest, no matter what the provocation, would it have any meaningful effect?” That is, would it create a situation where the police would feel they couldn’t use arbitrary force against non-violent protesters? The example of Zuccotti Park, where we achieved pretty consistent non-violence, suggests this is profoundly unlikely. And perhaps most importantly at all, even if it were somehow possible to create some kind of Peace Police that would prevent anyone under gas attack from so much as tossing a bottle, so that we could justly claim that no one had done anything to warrant the sort of attack that police have routinely brought, would the marginally better media coverage we would thus obtain really be worth the cost in freedom and democracy that would inevitably follow from creating such an internal police force to begin with?

These are not hypothetical questions. Every major movement of mass non-violent civil disobedience has had to grapple with them in one form or another. How inclusive should you be with those who have different ideas about what tactics are appropriate? What do you do about those who go beyond what most people consider acceptable limits? What do you do when the government and its media allies hold up their actions as justification—even retroactive justification—for violent and repressive acts?

Successful movements have understood that it’s absolutely essential not to fall into the trap set out by the authorities and spend one’s time condemning and attempting to police other activists. One makes one’s own principles clear. One expresses what solidarity one can with others who share the same struggle, and if one cannot, tries one’s best to ignore or avoid them, but above all, one keeps the focus on the actual source of violence, without doing or saying anything that might seem to justify that violence because of tactical disagreements you have with fellow activists.

I remember my surprise and amusement, the first time I met activists from the April 6 Youth Movement from Egypt, when the issue of non-violence came up. “Of course we were non-violent,” said one of the original organizers, a young man of liberal politics who actually worked at a bank. “No one ever used firearms, or anything like that. We never did anything more militant than throwing rocks!”

Here was a man who understood what it takes to win a non-violent revolution! He knew that if the police start aiming tear-gas canisters directly at people’s heads, beating them with truncheons, arresting and torturing people, and you have thousands of protesters, then some of them will fight back. There’s no way to absolutely prevent this. The appropriate response is to keep reminding everyone of the violence of the state authorities, and never, ever, start writing long denunciations of fellow activists, claiming they are part of an insane fanatic malevolent cabal. (Even though I am quite sure that if a hypothetical Egyptian activist had wanted to make a case that, say, violent Salafis, or even Trotskyists, were trying to subvert the revolution, and adopted standards of evidence as broad as yours, looking around for inflammatory statements wherever they could find them and pretending they were typical of everyone who threw a rock, they could easily have made a case.) This is why most of us are aware that Mubarak’s regime attacked non-violent protesters, and are not aware that many responded by throwing rocks.

Egyptian activists, in other words, understood what playing into the hands of the police really means.

Actually, why limit ourselves to Egypt? Since we are talking about Gandhian tactics here, why not consider the case of Gandhi himself? He had to deal with what to say about people who went much further than rock-throwing (even though Egyptians throwing rocks at police were already going much further than any US Black Bloc has). Gandhi was part of a very broad anti-colonial movement that included elements that actually were using firearms, in fact, elements engaged in outright terrorism. He first began to frame his own strategy of mass non-violent civil resistance in response to a debate over the act of an Indian nationalist who walked into the office of a British official and shot him five times in the face, killing him instantly. Gandhi made it clear that while he was opposed to murder under any circumstances, he also refused to denounce the murderer. This was a man who was trying to do the right thing, to act against an historical injustice, but did it in the wrong way because he was “drunk with a mad idea.”

Over the course of the next 40 years, Gandhi and his movement were regularly denounced in the media, just as non-violent anarchists are also always denounced in the media (and I might remark here that while not an anarchist himself, Gandhi was strongly influenced by anarchists like Kropotkin and Tolstoy), as a mere front for more violent, terroristic elements, with whom he was said to be secretly collaborating. He was regularly challenged to prove his non-violent credentials by assisting the authorities in suppressing such elements. Here Gandhi remained resolute. It is always morally superior, he insisted, to oppose injustice through non-violent means than through violent means. However, to oppose injustice through violent means is still morally superior to not doing anything to oppose injustice at all.

And Gandhi was talking about people who were blowing up trains, or assassinating government officials. Not damaging windows or spray-painting rude things about the police.

David Graeber
- Homepage: http://nplusonemag.com/concerning-the-violent-peace-police

Comments

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The black bloc tactic is inherently weak and will fail

10.02.2012 23:06


For several reasons:

1) The public hate it. Ie. the majority of the population. This is undeniable. You can bleat that it isn't true all you like, but it is true and it is easily provable. We arn't all anarchists, in fact, most people arn't anarchists, so most people are against rioters and other black bloc people who they consider to be violent thugs out for kicks. Most people (ie. the public), do not like anarchists because of this. Therefore, not only are your enforcing your views on other people through militant action, you are working against society as a whole. You are a fringe group who try to enforce your views on others through violence (property violence = violence no matter how you dress it up... again that is another flaw in anarchist thinking to consider it no so. The majority of people consider violence against property as violence full stop).

2) The tactic is totally flawed in all military aspects. Sure, a mob tactic may work in the times of spears and swords, but nowadays we have guns, helicopter gunships, armour vehicles, sniper rifles etc. The state could very easily mow down the black bloc without too much trouble if needs arised. The chances of the black bloc winning a military encounter is so low it is not even worth considering due to the technological, strategic and training aspects. 100 armed and organised soldiers will always defeat 100 black bloc no matter how organised you are. Therefore the militant action will always be token and never amount to a threat.

So, the black bloc is flawed on a idealogical and a practical front, making it double weak from both sides. Anything that is flawed on both angles is doomed to failure.

Anonymous


Should Occupy Use Violence? I Dunno — Should the Cops?

11.02.2012 01:14

Back in the mid-1980s, when the African National Congress was still fighting the South Africa’s apartheid regime, I recall Secretary of State George Schultz testifying before some Senate committee. He clutched his pearls at the appearance that “some members of this body are speaking in favor of violence.”

Even then, when I wasn’t an anarchist or anything approaching it, I laughed myself silly. Just what, exactly, did he imagine those American troops were doing in Grenada? “We’re here from the Western Hemisphere Ladies Auxiliary, and here’s a fruit basket with some coupons for discounts at local merchants?” For that matter, what did he think those guys with the flintlocks were doing on Lexington Green?

In the official narrative, the question always concerns whether anyone and everyone but the state should engage in violence. The question of whether the state should engage in violence, or whether state violence should be evaluated in terms of the same standards of reasonableness as violence by nonstate actors, never crosses the threshold of visibility. The legitimacy of violence by the state is never even articulated as an issue.

That’s a shame. The state is not a mystical entity, a sum greater than the human beings making it up. The state is simply a group of human beings cooperating for common purposes — purposes frequently at odds with those of other groups of people, like the majority of people in the same society. And violent actions by an association of individuals who call themselves “the state” have no more automatic legitimacy than violent actions by associations of individuals who call themselves “the Ku Klux Klan” or “al Qaeda.”

The violent actions of the state deserve to be evaluated using the same criteria by which we judge the morality of the violent actions of any other grouping of individuals. Alexander Berkman, in “The ABC of Anarchism,” argued that the death and destruction caused by the institutionalized violence of the state was many times greater than that caused by anarchists or other revolutionaries. Who do you think has thrown more bombs — anarchists, or government military forces?

Despite all the mystification of “national security” and “national interest,” the interests served by the state’s military violence are every bit as particular as those served by any other violent actions carried out by other groups of individuals. The state is nothing but an association for armed violence on the part of those who make money at the expense of other people. As Howard Zinn said:

“In the history of secrets, withheld from the American people, this is the biggest secret: that there are classes with different interests in this country. To ignore that — not to know that the history of our country is a history of slaveowner against slave, landlord against tenant, corporation against worker, rich against poor — is to render us helpless before all the lesser lies told to us by people in power.”

So it is with all the hand-wringing over “violence” in recent confrontations between Occupy Portland and the Portland police.

Andy Robinson, a professor at Cambridge who specializes among other things in networked resistance movements, argues that there’s a very pernicious framing going on in news coverage of the issue. “There’s no mention of the fact that police have repeatedly, violently attacked Occupy protests which consisted simply of sit-downs and camp-outs. … The fact that police use violence routinely and with impunity is not mentioned. In fact, police violence as such (as opposed to excessive brutality) is treated as uncontroversial. … Protective moves such as using shields and face coverings are portrayed as proactively aggressive.”

Or as anarchist Occupy activist David Graeber says in response to Chris Hedges’ recent clueless attack, “the US media is simply constitutionally incapable of reporting acts of police repression as ‘violence.’ If the police decide to attack a group of protesters, they will claim to have been provoked, and the media will repeat whatever the police say … as the basic initial facts of what happened. This will happen whether or not anyone at the protest does anything that can be remotely described as violence.”

We saw Oakland mayor Jean Quan, with a straight face, quacking about protestors alleged to have violently invaded a YMCA building, when in fact they were desperately trying to escape through the building after police had “kettled” them and begun the wholesale use of chemical weapons upon them.

Such official lies by politicians and cops, Robinson argues, are a “psyop designed to conceal their own repeated use of violence. … People are quoted as being against ‘all violence’ without the implications for police violence being examined. It’s basically a double standard — we never see it questioned whether supporters of the status quo have a right to use violence (only whether the violence they use is excessive) … a bit like starting a debate, ‘should an invaded country use violence against the invaders,’ without mentioning the violence of the invaders or the act of invasion.”

This last comparison is telling, given the farcical entertainment we get every night on CNN. Iran, a country ringed by military bases garrisoned by a global superpower that spends nearly as much on its military forces as all the other countries in the world combined, constitutes a military “threat” to the country which is besieging it. And the beseiging country, which has military bases in half the countries of the world and has overthrown more governments than any previous empire in human history, is “defending itself.”

What’s more, if you look at the American “Defense” Department’s planning documents, the main “threat” presented by Iran is the horrifying possibility that it might be able to successfully defend itself against an American attack. Which attack, of course, would be entirely justified by the “aggressive” act of defying a direct order by the U.S. (or its UN Security Council proxy).

In this Orwellian conceptual world, the question of whether the state has the right to use violence doesn’t bear looking into. But in the real world, it does. The state is by far the greatest concentration of organized violence, and it almost always employs such violence for evil purposes — whether at Tahrir Square, Hama, or Oakland.

So if you’re arguing over whether Occupy should “use violence,” you’re asking the wrong question.

Kevin Carson
- Homepage: http://c4ss.org/content/9672


naive commenters

11.02.2012 11:05

If you break the law, then yes the state will violence.

Otherwise, what is the fucking point of laws?

People like you could just break them with no consequences.

So, should the state use violence - absolutely. To enforce the law.

I think your issue is more with the law rather than state violence

anon


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@anon

12.02.2012 02:48

No anon, our isse is with morons like you that have no fucking clue what are they on about. Now fuck off and go back to reading Daily Mail.

As for the article- its well written and really says it all. Fundamentalist non- violence approach instead of diversity of tactics helps protecting the state.

anarchist


@anarchist

12.02.2012 13:25

No, you don't know what your talking about.
Your views are a subset of the general population. A tiny minority.
What is commonly know as a bunch of quacks that we have to put up with.

Don't believe me?
You refer to the daily mail........The daily mail readership dwarves Indymedia's
Hence your viewpoint is tiny in comparison to mine.

State violence on the black-bloc? Absolutely. Enforce the law, if they refuse to follow it.
If you have a problem with the law, then work to change it. Or fuck off.

Daily Mail reader


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IMC UK is an interactive site offering inclusive participation. All postings to the open publishing newswire are the responsibility of the individual authors and not of IMC UK. Although IMC UK volunteers attempt to ensure accuracy of the newswire, they take no responsibility legal or otherwise for the contents of the open publishing site. Mention of external web sites or services is for information purposes only and constitutes neither an endorsement nor a recommendation.

Pencil Dick Reader has blown a fuse today

12.02.2012 21:01

Not content with posting on a DOZEN IMC threads, blogs and forums at a time - the all time SUPER TROLL IS BACK.

Always ready to remind you that THEY rule the universe of the nobodies-

Through being a devoted member of a flock of sheep about to get shaved to the bollocks and slaughtered for their

HEALTHCARE
PENSIONS
SAVINGS
LIBRARIES
SPORTS-GROUNDS
COMMUNITY SPACES
YOU NAME IT ITS GETTING SOLD OFF - EVEN IF YOU DIDN'T WANT IT ANYWAY

Dear PC Dick Reader, Daily Mail is run at a massive loss and that old corrupt sleazebag Murdoch only runs it as a vanity publication. Also, factor into your massive interwebz analysis this - you are 1% we are 99%

AND GUESS WHAT

COPS ARE NOT IN THE 99%

YOU ARE IN THE 1%

- Hence YOU LOSE SCUM BAG


GET THE FUCK BACK WITH YOUR RAPIST MATES BOB

:)


Hidden Comment

This posting has been hidden because it breaches the Indymedia UK (IMC UK) Editorial Guidelines.

IMC UK is an interactive site offering inclusive participation. All postings to the open publishing newswire are the responsibility of the individual authors and not of IMC UK. Although IMC UK volunteers attempt to ensure accuracy of the newswire, they take no responsibility legal or otherwise for the contents of the open publishing site. Mention of external web sites or services is for information purposes only and constitutes neither an endorsement nor a recommendation.

Misunderstanding of what 99% actually means. Its 99 out of a 100 people

12.02.2012 23:10

>> Dear PC Dick Reader, Daily Mail is run at a massive loss and that old corrupt sleazebag Murdoch only runs it as a vanity publication.

Still has a massive readership. And people PAY to read it.
Indymedia is free, yet less people read Indymedia than the Daily mail.
Hence, people's viewpoints are more likely to be in key with the Daily mail than Indymedia
Because there is a) more readers; and b) they are willing to hand over cash.
My logic is undeniable.

>> Also, factor into your massive interwebz analysis this - you are 1% we are 99%
You are definitely NOT the 99%!
60 million people in the UK.
99% of 60 million = 59400000
Number of people who were interested in Occupy = 300?
So thats 0.0005% of the so-called 99% bothered turning up.

Heres my alternative explanation. 99% of the population are fucking interested in your viewpoint and don't agree with you. Hence they didn't turn up.

Heres another factoid for you:
6,000,000 people read the Daily Mail a day, that weren't even interested in Occupy.
Thats a x20000 factor more.
Conclusion: the population of the UK is hugely not interested in the 99% Occupy thing.
And - you don't represent the viewpoint of "the 99%"

You are definitely not the 99%


AND GUESS WHAT
COPS ARE NOT IN THE 99%
YOU ARE IN THE 1%
- Hence YOU LOSE SCUM BAG

No you lose. You arn't in the 99%. Its obvious. You are deluded.


GET THE FUCK BACK WITH YOUR RAPIST MATES BOB
Whatever, get a job.

Daily Mail reader


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Listen to ME - I am the Law

13.02.2012 18:52

I am a SAD LOSER.

Viva Murdoch!

Daily Mail Reader


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IMC UK is an interactive site offering inclusive participation. All postings to the open publishing newswire are the responsibility of the individual authors and not of IMC UK. Although IMC UK volunteers attempt to ensure accuracy of the newswire, they take no responsibility legal or otherwise for the contents of the open publishing site. Mention of external web sites or services is for information purposes only and constitutes neither an endorsement nor a recommendation.

Toast burnt then

13.02.2012 21:06

I am a SAD LOSER.

Yes you are. Your level of wit is that of a mouse without a brain.
Bet you got a hardon when you came up with that one. Did you beat yourself off when you saw your comment online?

Don't like the Daily Mail - tough. Its is so much bigger than Indymedia
Bigger. More powerful. More influential. Larger readership. More trusted. Wider Audience
Basically, it is a better than you little backroom enterprise by a factor of a billion

Daily Mail reader


public image

14.02.2012 01:13

The black bloc tactic is misunderstood because it is deliberately reported in an inaccurate way by the mainstream media.
The tactic (not a movement or ideology) evolved out of necessity.
As state oppression of peaceful protesters climaxes with the digital age allowing more and more surveillance, this tactic has become more useful.
There is no black bloc club, nobody owns the idea.
Why has it been so scorned by eg. the daily mail?
Perhaps because it has been proven to work many times.
Why do peaceful protesters feel the need to be anonymous?
Probably because they know ( from experience) that the police will start a file on them and intimidate and threaten them even if their only 'crime' was to have attended a demonstration against something like an arms fair or the construction of a nuclear power station etc.

The 400 or so white men in suits who control the world want activists to fight eachother and are almost certainly engaged in divide and rule activity.
The article critical of Black Bloc was so poorly researched and so badly thought out on so many levels, that is not easy to avoid the temptation of suspecting insincerity.

You can't build a movement on PR!

joe person


PLEASE, LETS STOP UNREALISTIC PACIFIST BULLSHIT

13.03.2012 12:41

All the Occupied movements cannot stand the existence of groups, ideas and tactics outside of what they are trying to delineate as valid for everybody. This is a fact.

True, almost all people want a bunch of reforms and carry on with their bussines as usual lifestyle under capitalist conditions and state domination. But what should it be the solution to this still reactionary attitude... bear with it and shut our mouths fearing that the support of "ordinary people" could be lost?. Shouldn't we try instead deepening the debate and challenge the conditioning this people have been (including and starting by ourselves) subjected to for their whole lives and that makes them see property as a sacred value and political violence as something always related to the vague media-engineered concept of "terrorism"?.



The problem is not the Black Block but the few cadres who are pulling the strings in the background of these so-called "espontaneous" movements. Just as it happened with the ANti-Global movement during the last decade, the cadres of present day display of citizen's politics cannot bear the existence of a differing and clearly anti-establishment way of mobilizing. In the past it was the informal, unsung and conveniently hidden social-democratic leadership of the Antiglobalists (The Monde Diplomatique, Attack and other ad hoc disgustingly reformistic conundrums) the ones who used to do the slandering. Now a days they are pretty much the same type of people under other flags and logos but in a situation far more serious than the one seen 10 years ago.

Posing as revolutionaries in order to save their own asses and become the representative of everyone else... a few emerging lefty political careers in the pipeline... all of it threatened to be ruined by the "vandals", by the use of violence, by a "Minority of extremists and nihilists". The attack is not directed against the Black Block but ultimately against the use of violence in demonstrations and other political situations.




THE STRUGGLE WILL ALWAYS HAPPEN IN A VARIETY OF WAYS, BEING THIS PEACEFUL OR VIOLENT.

BEAR WITH IT.

ANTUNES


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