.. Signifies complete agreement!

One of the most effective strategies the BNP and EDL use against Anti-Fascists is to accuse Anti-Fascists of being anarchists or left-wing extremists - it's a tactic they rely on, and they absolutely hate it when it doesn't work. Irony is that in many contexts liberalism is a more effectively weapon against Fascism (and I choose the word weapon deliberately, very much in a spirit of describing how to HURT the Fascists) than radicalism is, because (sadly, but honestly) it's not radicalism that gives Anti-Fascists the best chances for constructive dialogue with the ordinary people. Think about it.

Ordinary people can be a lot more radical than they are given credit for by patronising lefties and liberals.

@Ray. Fascism has tended to thrive on the bloated corpses of failed liberal states, its rise in Germany and Italy was partially facilitated by the existing Liberal state's inability to come to terms with an era of mass politics, the on going corruption inherent in the Italian system and the respective heads of state's readiness to compromise with extremist elements rather than risk a revolution.

In areas where fascism has had to be beaten back 'radical' methods have excelled: the Ukranian anarchists armed themselves against the White armies Pogromists, the failure of Liberal states (France, Britain, USA) to provide even the same level of assistance to the Republicans as the Nationalists during the civil war allowed conservative/ fascist elements to thrive in Spain (despite the bitter and valiant resistance put up by the radical elements), also cementing the position of the Portuguese fascist Salazar in the area, and let us not forget Cable Street, the 43 group etc.

 http://casualsunited.wordpress.com/2012/01/15/same-weekend-as-leicester-this-is-in-leeds-all-weekend/

There's a big difference between liberals and liberalism (as a set of values) and liberal STATES, and (speaking here as a liberal anarchist - as someone who considers the Tories, Labour and the "Liberal" Democrats to be either a/ intrinsic scum or b/ traitors) not all liberals believe in authority or the State. It's all relative. Anyway, the Leeds Anti-Fascist Film Festival is all over the Casuals United Blog and Stormfront so plan for the worst, just in case

Use IP shielding before viewing these websites -  http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t859602/

 http://casualsunited.wordpress.com/2012/01/15/same-weekend-as-leicester-this-is-in-leeds-all-weekend/

The Stormfront thread is hilarious!

As for the overgrown kids of The EDL/CU, it speaks volumes that they'd see this event as a legitimate target. Their forums are full of empty threats and macho posturing however, and I seem to recall the last time they showed up at an event in Leeds they came severely unstuck. I'm sure that security will be more than adequate. The obvious purpose of these threats however is intimidation, and so repeating them here and linking to these obscure forums merely assists the fascists. I would hope that IM mods remove these posts.

"The obvious purpose of these threats however is intimidation, and so repeating them here and linking to these obscure forums merely assists the fascists"?

If people were really intimidated away from anti-fascist events by such threats then no-one would attend anti-EDL protests. Truth is the EDL and Casuals threats are mostly just hot air, occasionally they pull-off an actual (though invariably unsuccessful) attack, mostly they're full of shit but it still pays to take appropriate precautions, I'm not aware of any hard evidence of anti-fascists actually running scared.

So why not just email the organisers (though I'm sure they're aware) rather than posting up here? This ISN't an anti-EDL demo, it's a film festival.

So the EDL want to protest against an event in Leeds celebrating those who fought against the Nazis because they had their meeting cancelled in Stoke?!

hi, of late i've been wondering / thinking about the rhetoric of the anti facist movement. Yes agreed, the facist set up is an ugly, ignorant carry on - no doubt. But this endless flapping on about nazis, holocaust and hitler is to my mind very tedious. Imagine being a young German watching and listening to tv, radio 4, and reading the papers over here. Go on think about it. The Great British people were just as racist as any German in those times. There's a british book called ''How Much Do You Know'' 1939 circa and in you'll find examples of of what I'd describe as pure racism. e.g ''Why is the white race superior?'' This book wasn't to be found in some seedy back street facist bookshop, but in many a house, library and school and regarded as essential knowledge for daily discourse among the peoples of this free and righteous country full of anti-facist warriors. The thoughts represented in this book were no different from pure nationalist thought.
As we all know there was plenty of propaganda during the war on all sides. The effects of propaganda and trauma can last a life time.

Sorry about doing this in two posts but i got cut off.
On a more topical note after reading about Jesse Owens (1936 olympics) I felt it necessary to mention the Jesse/hitler episode (hitler storms out...)which is regurlarly brought up in 'anti- facist bingo'. Jesse' account can easily be read on wiki and such. He had to wait 30 years after said olympics before he could even vote in his own country (america) never mind getting any official respect. Blacks and whites could not even serve in the same regiments in WW2.
Now my point is, young people today have access to the net and it is easy for them to read about '' the other point of view ''. Without experience their choice in what to believe is akin to shopping, the best advertiser/propagandist wins the customers. The question is, who benefits? Churchill, Blair, Bush etc they're all democracy and just as corrupt as hitler. They've all killed millions - were they all crypto facists? Surely the apartheid state of israel must be cypto facists as well? What's this obsession with facists all about to the point of exclusion of all the other shit's.
I would appreciate some criticism of my post but not the old chestnut 'you're confused'. As, like i said it's only the last few years that i've questioned the anti-facist rhetoric. It appears the facist movement is mainly uneducated, poor working class being led by the nose by educated white middle class types with delusions of power, did someone mention tories?
Anyway thanks for reading

Are you really that dense?! Doesn't the original post say that they are showing films about the struggle against fascism IN Germany (and other places)? A struggle which was waged primarily BY YOUNG GERMANS, huge numbers of whom were shot, hanged, gassed, or otherwise 'disposed of (along with their fellow Germans who happened to be Jewish, Gay, disabled, etc). I think you'll find that many young Germans are still part of the struggle against fascism and do not regard the Holocaust as a tedious subject, but an example of what has happened under fascism and why we should fight against it. It is quite clear from the post that the organisers of this event do not regard fascism as unique to Germany, far from it.

Jesse - just because some daft idea comes into your head it doesn't mean you have to post it to indymedia! Nobody is saying that racism only existed in one place and time! Israel may well be a crypto-fascist state, racism is stil widespread in America, Britain had the blackshirts and today we have the BNP and the EDL. None this makes the holocaust and nazi Germany (or the Spanish civil war or Cable St) irrelevant!

Firstly, good luck with the film showing.
My criticism is with the above promotion content. Ok, fair do's, I accept your points that my posts aren't written with the clarity of expression you are used to. Although.....

@ Antifascist – I think it's quite clear from my posts I'm not a '' nationalist ''. The mis-spelling I think shows more of my contempt for said faScists. I also don't think I deserved such a nasty comment, but I wont force you to change – as the spelling police say ' if the cap fits'.

@Archie – Yes I agree it's right to fight the forces of oppression, but I'm just questioning whether todays fascism has much to do with nazi germany 70years ago, except for a bit of paraphernalia and a manipulated interpretation of history i.e. fat, beer soaked angry men in a swazi t-shirt. The fascists of today view that era with rose tinted spectacles, ignorant of life in those times.
Yes and their view translates into bloody violence and terror – but so did every power force of that time -british, japanese, italian, french, dutch etc. and still do today. Do you really need examples of their nationalistic tyranny they subject millions to?
Hey listen my friend, yes many people were killed in camps by the german people but also many were killed right here in britain, members of my family included, by the german people during the bombings and on foreign shores as infantry in WW1. But hey, that's war. Maybe you're not old enough to remember your older relatives who lived through it, that unmistakeable look as they reminisce back to that husband, son, brother they had snatched away – the only souvenir a photo super imposed onto an existing family portrait – fake yes, but very, very real to them. Well those relatives were used, not by the nazis or german people but by their own people in power.
I can't see the point of blaming the nazis for the worlds ills, the Palestinians certainly are not blaming them!! It's not the subject of the holocaust that's tedious but the using of it at every opportunity for political purchase. Thanks for the criticism.

@ - @ -Sincerely I didn't think they were daft ideas. Maybe you did, but I hope you're not suggesting I get my ideas passed by you before posting, that would sound a little.... well let's say controlling and leave it at that. My point was that fascism/racism existed long before, during and after WW2 and that it wasn't only a dish served up by the nazis – the Africans felt it and still feel it today, but I don't see and hear much from the anti-fascists about Africa. That's the point, the rhetoric swirls around the nazis and the holocaust – it seems you can't see the wood for the trees or should that be – you can't see the engineered famine for the jack boots!!!! 10 million starving in one African famine alone, now follow the trail of that engineered starvation and you'll find it doesn't lead back to hitler and the holocaust. He's dead and that was 70years ago. Yes racism is wide spread – ask yourself, who benefits? You're not gonna like the answer and neither did I, it was a shock and I'm not talking about the bnp and edl. They are puppets, yes shitty puppets but puppets all the same. Thankyou for your criticism as well.
I am not criticising the people who are against fascism, just the way they set out their stall, although unintentional you are bigging up the scum in their minds. No insult or nastiness intended. Thankyou.

I think that's all fair enough Jesse, there's very obviously a wider context and you're right to bring it up and your last post was well put

I think the more pressing issue though, is to go to this to support this, and be prepared for intervention maybe not by anachronistic nazi fetishists, but by very real 21st century people who display a striking resemblance ideologically to those who the 20th century version sprang from 70 odd years ago and in similarly (not the same) economically turbulent times

Jesse, a few points mate,

First off, this is an event organised by Anti Fascists of many types, it is not a monolithic enterprise run by some secret clique living in an extinct volcano. The organisers of this event are using films and talks about historical events in an attempt to educate and inspire. Would you deny that the civil rights movement in the US was irrelevant today? Or the struggle against Imperialism in India? Or the struggles in Lebanon, Algeria, South Africa, Cuba, Vietnam,?

No one suggests that Anti Fascism is the be all and end all of any political struggle, and you will probably find that those involved have a wide range of other political and community interests (including the global community). But this is an Anti Fascist Film Festival, if you don't like it, go and organise your own festival, maybe you could call it the "In a very real sense we are all guilty" festival or the "Everything is horrid so we shouldn't even try to do anything" festival?

If you ain't a troll come and have a pint and discuss it. Hell even if you are.
We don't ask you to support us, but we'd rather you didn't gum up the works with your own hobby horses, red herrings, and pettifogging complaints. This is after all a benefit for those who put their money where their mouth is, and find themselves jailed, harassed and deported by the state.

Bod Green. xxx

Coming back to this and rereading Jesse's posts, I am forced to re-evaluate them.And to be fair to all concerned, I have to say that they are a massive load of fish piss. Snide, Tout, Troll, Pissguzzler. Offer still stands though, come and discuss it over a pint. My name is not an internet mask, ask for Bod Green and you will find me. I am on Facebook if it comes to that, and you can have my phone number if you want. That goes for any Fascists. Nuts to the lot of you. xxxx

"Flapping on about the Holocaust"? Really? Really? Why on earth would anyone think that the state sponsored murder of millions of people merely because of their religion, alleged ethnicity, political views, culture, physical or mental disability or sexuality still has any resonance a mere 70 years later? I do apologise for harping on about such a mere footnote in history. Do I fuck.
Muppet. xxx