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‘They Found Nothing. Nothing.’

Media Lens (repost) | 24.11.2011 21:11 | Anti-militarism | World

Earlier this month, the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) released its much-trailed report ‘presenting new evidence’, said the BBC, ‘suggesting that Iran is secretly working to obtain a nuclear weapon.’

Relying on ‘evidence provided by more than 10 member states as well as its own information’, the IAEA said Iran had carried out activities ‘relevant to the development of a nuclear explosive device’.

Having looked deeply into the claims, veteran journalist Seymour Hersh commented this week in an interview with Democracy Now!:

‘But you mentioned Iraq. It’s just this — almost the same sort of — I don’t know if you want to call it a "psychosis," but it’s some sort of a fantasy land being built up here, as it was with Iraq, the same sort of — no lessons learned, obviously.’

deja vu
deja vu


Indeed, informed scepticism in the corporate media has been muted or non-existent - the image of Iran as a ‘nuclear threat’ has yet again been imposed on the public mind. Any reasonable news reader and viewer would find it extremely difficult to question the emphatic declarations offered right across the media ‘spectrum’.

Thus, a Guardian editorial asserted: ‘It really is time to drop the pretence that Iran can be deflected from its nuclear path.’

Two days earlier, the Guardian’s diplomatic editor, Julian Borger, anticipated the report’s publication on his ‘Global Security Blog’ with a piece titled ‘Iran “on threshold of nuclear weapon”’. The accompanying photograph helpfully depicted a giant mushroom cloud during a 1954 nuclear test over Bikini Atoll. His article was linked prominently from the home page of the Guardian website.

In a later article, Borger gave prominence to a quote from an unnamed ‘source close to the IAEA’:

‘What is striking is the totality and breadth of the information [in the IAEA report]. Virtually every component of warhead research has been pursued by Iran.’

Presumably all-too-aware of increased public scepticism in the wake of Iraq, the anonymous source continued in the Guardian:

‘The agency has very, very, high confidence in its analysis. It did not want to make a mistake, and it was aware it had a very high threshold of credibility to meet. So it would not be published unless they had that high level of confidence.’

In similar vein, a New York Times report opened with:

‘United Nations weapons inspectors have amassed a trove of new evidence that they say makes a “credible” case that “Iran has carried out activities relevant to the development of a nuclear device,” and that the project may still be under way.’

The Daily Telegraph declared its version of the truth unequivocally in a leader titled ‘Iran’s nuclear menace’. It noted that the IAEA report ‘has for the first time acknowledged that Tehran is conducting secret experiments whose sole purpose is the development of weapons.’

Presumably drawing on clairvoyant powers, the editors added:

‘Indeed, the IAEA has known for years that Tehran was building an atomic weapon, but has been reluctant to say so.’

The title of an editorial (November 10, 2011) in The Times was similarly categorical and damning: ‘Deadly Deceit; Iran's bellicose duplicity is definitively exposed by an IAEA report’:

‘Tehran's decade-long nuclear programme is obviously not intended purely for generating electricity. The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) has confirmed this week that it has credible evidence that Iran has worked on the development of nuclear weapons.’

The editorial stamped this with the required emphasis:

‘This will sound, and is, a statement of such banality that it ought not to need saying.’

And then continued without a shred of uncertainty:

‘The IAEA report is extensive and understated. Founded on intelligence sources from ten countries, it explains in detail how Iran has established a programme to develop the technologies for a nuclear weapon. Its findings are entirely consistent with all that has been known and exposed before. Indeed, the IAEA is late in stating them.’

For anyone relying solely on corporate news media coverage, the case against Iran was closed. All that remained was to decide the necessary course of international action: ramped-up ’diplomacy’, international sanctions and perhaps – the threat was left ‘lying on the table’ – war.

What is so breathtaking is that the apparent consensus on Iran, like the case against Iraq, is a fraud.

 

Burying The Cable – WikiLeaks And IAEA Chief Yukiya Amano

One of the stunning omissions in corporate media coverage of the IAEA report are the WikiLeaks disclosures concerning IAEA chief, Yukiya Amano. According to a US Embassy cable from a US diplomat in Vienna, where the IAEA is based, Amano described himself as ‘solidly in the U.S. court on every key strategic decision, from high-level personnel appointments to the handling of Iran's alleged nuclear weapons program.’

Amano’s predecessor as IAEA chief was Mohammed ElBaradei who had refused to bow before US war-mongering, and who was later awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. As ElBaradei came to the end of his term in 2009, the Americans sensed an opportunity to work with someone more compliant. They lobbied successfully on Amano’s behalf. Following his election as IAEA chief, a US cable reported on a meeting with him:

‘This meeting, Amano's first bilateral review since his election, illustrates the very high degree of convergence between his priorities and our own agenda at the IAEA. The coming transition period provides a further window for us to shape Amano's thinking before his agenda collides with the IAEA Secretariat bureaucracy.’

This ‘very high degree of convergence’ would presumably be useful in hyping the alleged ‘nuclear threat’ of Iran.

A US mission cable from Vienna commented that Amano was ‘DG [Director-General] of all states, but in agreement with us.’

The Guardian reported the Amano cable in a blog back in November 2010, but not in the paper itself. Our newspaper database search revealed that not a single UK national newspaper has mentioned the WikiLeaks cable revealing that Amano is ‘solidly in the U.S. court’ in coverage of the latest IAEA report. The sole exception we could find anywhere in the UK print media was an article in the New Statesman by Mehdi Hasan.

Rather than report this vital evidence from WikiLeaks, the British media have either tried to silence or vilify its founder, Julian Assange. This is a truly damning indictment of the ‘free press’.

By contrast, Seymour Hersh is a rare voice of rationality exposing this latest propaganda hype. On Democracy Now!, Hersh commented of former US Vice-President Dick Cheney:

‘Cheney kept on having the Joint Special Operations Force Command, JSOC — they would send teams inside Iran. They would work with various dissident groups — the Azeris, the Kurds, even Jundallah, which is a very fanatic Sunni opposition group — and they would do everything they could to try and find evidence of an undeclared underground facility. We monitored everything. We have incredible surveillance. In those days, what we did then, we can even do better now. And some of the stuff is very technical, very classified, but I can tell you, there's not much you can do in Iran right now without us finding out something about it. They found nothing. Nothing. No evidence of any weaponization. In other words, no evidence of a facility to build the bomb. They have facilities to enrich, but not separate facilities for building a bomb. This is simply a fact. We haven’t found it, if it does exist. It’s still a fantasy.’ 

Hersh said that Iran did look ‘at the idea of getting a bomb or getting to the point where maybe they could make one. They did do that, but they stopped in ’03. That’s still the American consensus. The Israelis will tell you privately, “Yes, we agree.”’

He described the new IAEA report as ‘not a scientific report, it’s a political document’, noting that ‘Amano has pledged his fealty to America.’

Amano had been ‘a marginal candidate’ for the position of IAEA chief but the US wanted him in place:

‘We supported him very much. Six ballots. He was considered weak by everybody, but we pushed to get him in. We did get him in. He responded by thanking us and saying he shares our views. He shares our views on Iran... it was just an expression of love. He’s going to do what we wanted.’

In a blog on The New Yorker website, Hersh added that one of the classified US Embassy cables from Vienna described Amano as being ‘ready for prime time.’ The cable also noted that Amano’s ‘willingness to speak candidly with U.S. interlocutors on his strategy … bodes well for our future relationship.’

In his Democracy Now! interview, Hersh pointed out that his blog piece was thoroughly researched and checked by The New Yorker, and that it included expert testimony shunned by the major newspapers:

‘These are different voices than you’re seeing in the papers. I sometimes get offended by the same voices we see in the New York Times and Washington Post. We don’t see people with different points of view… And I get emails, like crazy, from people on the inside saying, “Way to go.” I’m talking about inside the IAEA. It’s an organization that doesn’t deal with the press, but internally, they’re very bothered by the direction Amano is taking them.’

Hersh cited Robert Kelley, a retired IAEA director and nuclear engineer who previously spent more than thirty years with the US Department of Energy’s nuclear-weapons programme:

‘He noted that hundreds of pages of material appears to come from a single source: a laptop computer, allegedly supplied to the I.A.E.A. by a Western intelligence agency, whose provenance could not be established. Those materials, and others, “were old news,” Kelley said, and known to many journalists. “I wonder why this same stuff is now considered ‘new information’ by the same reporters.” ’

An assessment of the IAEA report was published by the Arms Control Association (ACA), a non-profit organisation campaigning for effective arms control. Greg Thielmann, a former US State Department and Senate Intelligence Committee analyst who was one of the authors of the ACA assessment, told Hersh:

‘There is troubling evidence suggesting that studies are still going on, but there is nothing that indicates that Iran is really building a bomb. Those who want to drum up support for a bombing attack on Iran sort of aggressively misrepresented the report.’

 

The BBC ‘Notes’ Privately That There Are Dissenting Views

On November 9, 2011, a BBC news piece carried a side bar ‘analysis’ by James Reynolds, the BBC’s Iran correspondent. We wrote to him the same day:

I hope you’re safe and well there. In your analysis which is included in the BBC News article ‘UN nuclear agency IAEA: Iran “studying nuclear weapons”’, you note that:

‘The agency stresses that the evidence it presents in its report is credible and well-sourced.’ 

You then add:

‘Iran’s President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has dismissed the IAEA as puppet of the United States. His government has already declared that its findings are baseless and inauthentic.’

You attribute such views to Iran, an officially-declared enemy of the West. A more balanced approach might be to report that a US Embassy Cable published last year revealed that Yukiya Amano, the IAEA director general, is ‘solidly in the U.S. court on every key strategic decision’. 

And according to a recent New York Times report: ‘the Obama administration, acutely aware of how what happened in Iraq undercut American credibility, is deliberately taking a back seat, eager to make the conclusions entirely the I.A.E.A.’s, even as it continues to press for more international sanctions against Iran.’

Shouldn’t these crucial facts be noted in your analysis?

The NYT report continues:

‘When the director of the agency, Yukiya Amano, came to the White House 11 days ago to meet top officials of the National Security Council about the coming report, the administration declined to even confirm he had ever walked into the building.’

Isn’t all this relevant in assessing the context, realpolitik and implications of the IAEA report? Can you not find critical commentators outside the Iranian government whom you can quote?

Given the stakes involved, would you perhaps consider addressing the above points in your analysis in future, please?

Many thanks.

Rather than address any of the above points, Reynolds emailed back:

‘thanks for your message. I appreciate your comments and insight.’ (Email, November 9, 2011)

Just over a week later, a new BBC piece appeared in which the five permanent members of the UN Security Council and Germany claimed to have ‘deep and increasing concern’ over Iran's nuclear programme. We emailed Reynolds again (November 18, 2011):

Have you considered interviewing sceptical and informed commentators?

For example, you could approach the experienced investigative journalist Gareth Porter. He says that the recent IAEA report’s ‘dubious intelligence [is being] used as pretext for tougher sanctions’:

Porter’s analysis is backed up by Robert Kelley, a nuclear engineer who has carried out IAEA inspections. Kelley believes that ‘the report misleads and manipulates facts in [an] attempt to prove a forgone conclusion.’

He also says that the IAEA report ‘recycles old intelligence and is meant to bolster hard liners.’

Shouldn’t you also be including such important and informed views in your reporting for BBC News?

Not hearing from him, we nudged Reynolds on November 21 when he again avoided addressing the points made:

‘I received your message - thanks. I shall reflect on the points you raise.

‘It is always important for me to hear from licence-fee payers - the lifeblood of the BBC.’ (James Reynolds, email, November 21, 2011)

We tried once more to elicit a response from the BBC’s Iran correspondent that actually addressed the points put to him:

I appreciate your reply.

But with the resources of the BBC at your disposal, you surely cannot be unaware of the informed commentators and important points presented to you [in the previous emails]. It is notable that you do not appear to have included them in any of your BBC reports to date. Why not?

Nor have you reported - although I may have missed it -  that IAEA chief Yukiya Amano is regarded by the US, according to a WikiLeaks cable, as 'solidly in the U.S. court on every key strategic decision, from high-level personnel appointments to the handling of Iran's alleged nuclear weapons program.'

Why remain silent about this astonishing fact? Isn't this crucially relevant for public understanding of what is happening over Iran? Perhaps there are editorial reasons that are making it difficult for you to properly report these vital issues? (Email, November 22, 2011)

To no avail: the response was even more terse this time:

‘points noted.’ (James Reynolds, email, November 22, 1011)

Curiously, ‘the lifeblood of the BBC’ deserves no better than this.

Can journalists really have forgotten the propaganda offensive that predated the March 19, 2003 invasion of Iraq – a tsunami of disinformation in which they were accomplices? Have they really learned nothing? What gives them the right to absolve themselves and to start with a clean slate now that Iran is the next hyped ‘threat’?

Surely now more than ever - as the spectre of yet another war in the Middle East looms, perhaps the greatest conflagration yet - it is vital that journalists should be wary of repeating propaganda claims over Iran.

 

SUGGESTED ACTION

The goal of Media Lens is to promote rationality, compassion and respect for others. If you do write to journalists, we strongly urge you to maintain a polite, non-aggressive and non-abusive tone.

Please write to:

Julian Borger, diplomatic editor of the Guardian

Email: julian.borger@guardian.co.uk

Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/julianborger

James Reynolds, BBC Iran correspondent

Email: james.reynolds@bbc.co.uk

Jeremy Bowen, BBC Middle East editor

Email: jeremy.bowen@bbc.co.uk

Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/jfjbowen

Please blind-copy us in on any exchanges or forward them to us later at:

editor@medialens.org

Media Lens (repost)
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Comments

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Better safe than sorry

24.11.2011 23:12

When you got a country like Iran with leaders who rant on and on about how evil the West is, its best to make sure they dont get nukes.

I cannot see an advantage to our safety in letting them just do want they want to do.
Surely, its safer to stamp out the risk - afterall this is mainly about reducing risk.
At the end of the day - what if you are wrong? How many innocent UK citizens would pay with their lies just to satisfy your ego?

Max


You prove the point mate

25.11.2011 08:01


You are the prove of the pudding M8, you obviously saw it on TV, read the various quoted in the original article. Of course Iran's recent history is terrible, Since their elected democratic goverment was overthrown, in the 1950's, largely by British Petroleum. They have invaded err nowhere what so ever. Iran was attacked by the evel monster Saddam Hussien at the behest of the oh so cool and cultured west, who also supplied the chemical weapons which killied thousands of their soldiers and civilians. At that time Saddam was a big buddy Western Cultural Ambassadors like Donald Rumsfeld. When they went looking for the WMD they used the invoices, which had been paid to them, as a check list to make sure that they had accounted for everything, which THEY had sold him. So now finally after years of scheming and Black OP's it is time for our boys to go in. Of course as the previous comment states, we will be attacking them to protect ourselves. Your Comment is so "Just the normal everyday idiot" Did you ever see the Monty Python LLAP-GOCH sketch it's just right for people like you, but it might also go straight over your head.

WHAT is LLAP-GOCH again?

It is an ANCIENT Welsh ART based on a BRILLIANTLY simple I-D-E-A, which is a SECRET. The best form of DEFENCE is ATTACK (Clausewitz) and the most VITAL element of ATTACK is SURPRISE (Oscar HAMMERstein). Therefore, the BEST way to protect yourself AGAINST any ASSAILANT is to ATTACK him before he attacks YOU... Or BETTER... BEFORE the THOUGHT of doing so has EVEN OCCURRED TO HIM!!! SO YOU MAY BE ABLE TO RENDER YOUR ASSAILANT UNCONSCIOUS BEFORE he is EVEN aware of your very existence!
 http://mzonline.com/bin/view/Python/FearNoManSketch/

 http://www.llapgoch.org.uk/

Point proven


Max and his dead babies

25.11.2011 08:32

"When you got a country like Iran with leaders who rant on and on about how evil the West is, its best to make sure they dont get nukes."

sure Max. If you're a cop you might put it this way:

"When you get a demo with protesters who rant on and on about unjust capitalism is, its best to shoot them to make sure they don't have any guns"

Are you a cop Max, or just some fool who can't get the cop out of his head?

The Evening Standard ritually reports that protesters will have weapons, and will attack cops with them, before every major demo. So at every major demo the cops ensure that it doesn't turn violent, by using loads of violence themselves. It is perhaps only a coincidence that the source of the stories which the Evening Standard prints is always the very same cops who then act on the 'information'.

The same as it is the states who attacked Iraq, and intend to attack Iran, who brief the media about the existence of weapons of mass destruction. Then the media does its job which is to persuade the Max's of the world that we really need to blow kids to bits with real WMDs in order to stem the threat of the non-existent WMDs that the kids don't have.







E I E I O


A lovely place

25.11.2011 10:31

Nothing wrong with Iran, a wonderful country and their policy of having a Medieval religion fairy story forming the basis for their legislation is entirely reasonable. After all who really thinks that women should have the vote or that gays shouldn't be flogged and hung for 'sodomy' ? I bet we all think that Britain would be better if women had to had their heads covered in public to prevent men's passion becoming inflamed all very fair and reasonable.

As we all know having a country run by elderly religious bigots always makes for a happy population.

I think Press TV is a real broadcaster


@ I think Press TV is a real broadcaster

25.11.2011 11:19

Well, you would wouldn't you - which makes you very gullible to all of the crap foisted upon the general public.

However, nominative determinism aside, what goes on within Iran is up to them. By the same logic however, having a theotocracy - and hard-nosed at that - such as Iran does, also means that they are very likely to take the fatwas issued *against* the development of nuclear weapons very seriously, because it is a holy writ.

The west (& its militant engine, Israel) has a vested geopolitical and economic interest in seeing Iran compliant with western demands, and this whole war mongering tirade with dodgy intelligence several years out of date being touted by all of the usual gullible sources is part of that agenda, a psyops agenda that is part of America's doctrine of Full Spectrum Dominance.

What is a real shame is that our so-called "critical" journalists are merely mouthpieces for the state and corporate interests which, being indistinguishable, is an apt description of fascism. The difference between Iran and the west is that in Iran they don't hide their oppressive doctrine, while in the west they hide it under layers of pseudo-freedoms that amount to freedoms to choose between brands, but not the freedom not to buy, and the freedom to speak and to vote, as long as doing so doesn't actually do anything to change the status quo!

Rumplestiltskin


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Well done

25.11.2011 11:48

>>>> The difference between Iran and the west is that in Iran they don't hide their oppressive doctrine, while in the west they hide it under layers of pseudo-freedoms that amount to freedoms to choose between brands, but not the freedom not to buy, and the freedom to speak and to vote, as long as doing so doesn't actually do anything to change the status quo!>>>>

Spoken like a true apologist - well done, the cheques in the post.

Amandajinahad


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@ Amandajinahad

25.11.2011 12:07

Oh ha ha ha - very clever and astute come back. No doubt you lack the mental capacity to actually debate or challenge the point, so you dish out intellectual pablum and pretend that it is a worthwhile comment?

Shame ... go back to Faux News you patsy.

Rumplestiltskin


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Keep it up

25.11.2011 12:36

Well done, all of us here in Tehran are proud of you. We hope you can keep up this nonsense long enough to distract people from the growing democracy movement in Iran and our use of paid thugs to keep it down.


Fidel in Havana send hugs.

Amandajinahad


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@ Rumplestiltskin

25.11.2011 13:18

Having read your comments I realise nobody here is as clever as you. You write with lots of long words that we don't understand so we hope that you will go off and set up a blog that helps other clever people to understand why Iran is a better country than the UK.

Not as clever as you


Yawn ... the idiots are back ...

25.11.2011 14:05

Dear Amandajinahad

Sure you are writing from Tehran - I completely believe you.

Chances are you are some right wing UK nob or a CIA (or Israeli) sock puppet who trawls these kinds of boards to squash any comments that don't toe the party line of west = good, Iran = bad. If you re-read what I wrote, I did not reiterate that dualistic claptrap, but simply pointed out that the regime in Iran *is* oppressive and - at the same time (notice the both-and inclusion, rather than the either-or disjunction?) - the west is oppressive in different ways. Moreover, as the original post argued, Iran has not attacked anyone for decades whereas the west ... well, let's just say that the west has proven itself repeatedly to be aggressive, war-mongering and engaged in a doctrine of full spectrum dominance in pursuit of oil and geopolitical advantage, all the while lying through its teeth (basically, the supplicant media) to portray itself as the defenders of life and liberty.

If you are unable - or unwilling - to spot the difference, then that is your problem, not mine.

Dear Not as clever as you (also known as I think Press TV is a real broadcaster)

Seems like your (alleged) lack of intelligence is a bit of a sore point for you, hence your defensiveness. Not much I or anyone else can do about that, I'm afraid. You could try to read more perhaps ... but just because you *may* be the idiot your village is looking for doesn't mean that others need to stoop to your level. You are responsible for your own capacities to a large extent in this world, and hence responsible for boot-strapping where the basic capabilities permit it.

You can obviously type and use a web browser, so I guess it is not all bad for you. Many others with far greater challenges than you face seem to be getting on with their own lives without exhorting others to dumb themselves down. So maybe your problem is not so much a lack of capability, but simply a laziness demonstrated in yet another childlike attempt at irony.

Rumplestiltskin


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Drat and double Drat

25.11.2011 14:15

"Chances are you are some right wing UK nob or a CIA (or Israeli) sock puppet "



Fooled again ! Yes you are right, we here at Mossad HQ in Golders Green are keeping a close eye on this interweb idea as we think it might catch on and could be a spanner in the plans to bring Judaism to all of the world by Thursday next.

Back to the drawing board.

Dick Dasterdly (Kosher version)


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Facts not conjecture

25.11.2011 14:28

Useful idiots like 'Rumplestilskin" aside the crux of this story is in the opening paragraph,

"the IAEA said Iran had carried out activities ‘relevant to the development of a nuclear explosive device’." After that we are treated to a lot of nonsense about how radical and alternative media doubts this is true but that can be safely ignored as usual.

The fact remains that the world's most respected body in the field regards Iran as on the path to having nuclear weapons. Speaking as somebody who thinks that nobody should have them I an unhappy about that, what makes it worse is that it is a country like Iran which lets face facts for a moment is a totalitarian theocracy run by a committee of religious bigots.

If there are truly people who do not understand the danger in that then I am sorry for them. The question for the fools who on this thread and others that defend Iran is a simple one, do you want Iran to have nuclear weapons ? Note that this is a simple 'yes or 'no' question. It does not require a fifty word explanation of why Israel is worse / responsible / behind it all etc etc just a simple 'yes' or 'no'. Those incapable of this simple response are either Trolls, Fools, Useful Idiots or all three.

If you are tempted to reply and enter into a debate please answer this question first, if you can't or don't I will ignore you.

Ignoring the Useful Idiots of the Iranian regime


To raciststiltskin

25.11.2011 14:33

"After all who really thinks that women should have the vote?" Obviously the Iranians do, as women have had the vote since 1963

Fat lot of good its done them

trollsareawasteoftime


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@ Rumplestiltskin

25.11.2011 14:34

Rumplestiltskin ,

You just got owned man, give it up - you is looking stupid !!!!!!!!

Give it up


Evidently I touched a nerve

25.11.2011 15:07

In descending order:

@ Ignoring the Useful Idiots of the Iranian regime:

I love simple-minded morons who see the world in monochrome. Anyway, I'll play the game: "The question for the fools who on this thread and others that defend Iran is a simple one, do you want Iran to have nuclear weapons ?"

If the only parameters you can handle are black or white, then my answer is "yes". The reason being because they are in real danger of being of being unilaterally attacked by the US and Israel, and if they had nukes they are less likely to be attacked because the US and Israel are military cowards and don't appreciate those who can fight back. However, outside of the narrow confines of the OP's multiple choice question, I would prefer that nukes had never been invented, that the US had never used them on Japan, and that this issue could be resolved peacefully. But I suspect that the OP finds such complexity difficult to entertain and hence defaults to simplistic "yes"/ "no" dualisms.

Anyway, the OP starts this with:

""the IAEA said Iran had carried out activities ‘relevant to the development of a nuclear explosive device’." After that we are treated to a lot of nonsense about how radical and alternative media doubts this is true but that can be safely ignored as usual. " I guess that it is only nonsense because the OP cannot compute that there are differing opinions to those promoted by the supplicant western media who were just as happy to mouth the lies leading up to the Iraq invasion, for which some of them apologised later (but obviously didn't bother taking their contrition to heart).

@ Give it up

"You just got owned man, give it up - you is looking stupid !!!!!!!! " - really? Gee, must have missed that one.

Oh and BTW, FWIW, I am not an apologist for Iran. I think that the present regime is shameful for its treatment of women, gays, opposition parties and its use of Sharia law. Even with this in mind, I still stand by my opinion that the west has no right to try to destroy Iran or any other country, and that should Iran develop a nuke (despite the fatwas to the contrary and exhaustive IAEA inspections which have shown absolutely nothing to support the idea that they are actually doing so) I would hope that, unlike the US, they never use it.

Rumplestiltskin


Warmongers at it again.

25.11.2011 15:42

"If there are truly people who do not understand the danger in that then I am sorry for them. The question for the fools who on this thread and others that defend Iran is a simple one, do you want Iran to have nuclear weapons ? Note that this is a simple 'yes or 'no' question. It does not require a fifty word explanation of why Israel is worse / responsible / behind it all etc etc just a simple 'yes' or 'no'. Those incapable of this simple response are either Trolls, Fools, Useful Idiots or all three."

Population of Iran is 73,973,630 as opposed to Iraq (32,030,823), Afghanistan (34,385,068) and Libya (6,355,112).

People commenting on this article seem to be deluded about what that means.

You can't attack Iran...that isn't an option.

Personally, yes I would like Iran to have a deterrent able to retard the global ambitions of the US and UK and the regional ambitions of Israel. That would be an appropriate situation as far as I'm concerned. It would help to remove the US from areas that it has no right occupying and encourage it to stay within its own borders.

It would help encourage Britain to develop its own foreign policy instead of slavishly obeying the US all the time. If we in the UK had an effective foreign policy to manage, then we have reason not to allow ourselves to rely on the PR industry to provide our political leaders. Cameron, Clegg and Miliband are all PR consultants by trade, not politicians.

It would also help sterilise Israel and encourage it to hand over its sovereignty to the people of Palestine and Israel rather than allowing it to fall into the hands of religious zealots and terrorist fanatics like the Zionists and Irgun.

It would, for the most part, act to stabilise the entire region.

I would much prefer to see Iran with the bomb, than see the US and UK continue to poke China and Russia with shitty sticks! That is bound to end badly.

As far as the clerics are concerned, well it is clear that what they really want more than anything is stability in order to continue to govern their nation according to Gods lore. They have no reason to attack any other nation and have no history in doing that. The very thing people fear the most about the clerics is the very same thing that ensures they will never use weapons of this sort.

A better course would be simply to argue against proliferation of nuclear weapons but unfortuntely, the US and UK are acting to ensure that never happens. It is not enough to place military forces at close quarters to another country and then expect them to take no action in their defence.

In this regard, the US and UK are the two nations doing most to ensure Iran develops these weapons. It shouldn't come as a surprise that they should be first to whine about the very situation they have done most to bring about!

The US and UK are two nations that spend a lot of time creating enemies, only to attack them for being enemies.

The world has awakened to that scam...and as a result, the US and UK are now in steady and compelling decline, which is entirely self-imposed.

anonymous


Wake up and smell the coffee

25.11.2011 16:07

"As far as the clerics are concerned, well it is clear that what they really want more than anything is stability in order to continue to govern their nation according to Gods lore."

Stability ? You're living in a dream world I'm afraid.



Ali Khamenei is on record as saying that funding unrest in Armenia, Azerbaijan and Turkmenistan will "smooth the path to Islamic Statehood" in those countries.

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad when speaking to the Iran Parliament Energy Commission's Hamidreza Katouzian was reported in 'The Nation' (a government supporting newspaper) that "using oil revenue to introduce instability in Iraq was one of our best expenses this year"

The Iranian funding of competing groups and tribes in Afghanistan to enable a power vacuum that it can fill is so well know they don't even bother lying about it any more.

Pashtuk


Coffee is for yanks!

25.11.2011 16:41

"Ali Khamenei is on record as saying that funding unrest in Armenia, Azerbaijan and Turkmenistan will "smooth the path to Islamic Statehood" in those countries."

Armenia is 93% Armenian Christian Orthodox, Azerbaijan is 82% Azeri Muslim and Turkmenistan is 73% Turkmeni Muslim. The only minority nationality in all three of those countries is Russian. Any de-stabilisation going on there is almost certainly the result of other actors not Iranian's, irrespective of what the clerics say.



"Mahmoud Ahmadinejad when speaking to the Iran Parliament Energy Commission's Hamidreza Katouzian was reported in 'The Nation' (a government supporting newspaper) that "using oil revenue to introduce instability in Iraq was one of our best expenses this year"

But of course.

It has an extremely difficult and belligerant military power to its east and west which has a very well documented history of violence, subversion and illegal invasion of sovereign states. The US and UK are both nations that lied not only to the world, but to their own people about the threats that Iraq and Afghanistan posed to them. Iran has a vested and very obvious interest in trying to de-stabilise the occupations of these two countries.

If China were to invade Scotland and Wales you would expect the English government to at least make an attempt to de-stabilise these occupations...wouldn't you?




"The Iranian funding of competing groups and tribes in Afghanistan to enable a power vacuum that it can fill is so well know they don't even bother lying about it any more."

In Afghanistan as well as Iraq, funding of groups is undertaken by a number of different actors all with compelling reason to make life difficult for the US and UK. It isn't just Iran that's involved. Every bugger is at it.

You seem to be under the illusion that the UK and US have more freinds than enemies in that region...the exact opposite is the case.

anonymous


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Nuclear carpet bomb them

25.11.2011 20:26

its the only way. Run planes the entire length and carpet bomb them with nukes

We win.

anon


Illusion ?

28.11.2011 10:43

"You seem to be under the illusion that the UK and US have more freinds than enemies in that region"

You seem to be under the illusion that the world will be a safer place if Iran gets nuclear weapons. It is beyond me how anybody could think that.

Houdini


RE: Houdini

28.11.2011 13:16

Houdini would have us believe that:

"You seem to be under the illusion that the world will be a safer place if Iran gets nuclear weapons. It is beyond me how anybody could think that."

Unfortunately, it is precisely the fact that the USA, Israel and their cronies are so intent on world domination and pre-emptive aggressive wars against sovereign nations that Iran needs a nuclear device to try to stay safe from invasion!!

However, given the fatwas against nuclear weapons in addition to repeated IAEA inspections and several National Intelligence Estimate reports from the USA's own intelligence agencies each of which have consistently reported that Iran is not seeking nuclear weapons nor developing the capabilities with which to acquire them, Houdini's paranoid ravings, which, incidentally also miss the point of this piece anyway, serve only to further the rabid war-mongering of the US and Israeli agendas towards geo-political dominance and ensuring that it is their agenda that prevails.

No-one has said that the world would be a safer place if Iran acquires nuclear weapons. That is a moot point: the world would be a safer place if the US had never detonated two bombs over Japan; it would also be a safer place if the US and Israel stopped trying to push their agenda for world dominance onto everybody else.

But, of course, the right wing, pro-Israeli and US apologists don't like to entertain those as options towards peace, do they? They'd rather have us all believe that what is in the interests of Israel and the US equates to being in the world's interests ... because after all, isn't everyone an American?

Rubber Soul


@Houdini

28.11.2011 13:38

>>>>You seem to be under the illusion that the world will be a safer place if Iran gets nuclear weapons.>>>You seem to be under the illusion that the world will be a safer place because Amerika has nuclear weapons. It is beyond me how anybody could think that. <<<<

Thats a more accurate statement now.

Bystander Apathy


@Houdini

28.11.2011 13:53

>>>>You seem to be under the illusion that the world will be a safer place if Iran gets nuclear weapons.>>>

Iran has a crap human rights record - so does China. Iran has never invaded anybody, but Amerika has many times before. This statement seems to be broken propaganda that demonizes Iran while exonerating Amerika's use of force in a world stage re-enactment of Minority Report. What gives Amerika that right? So lets fix this broken statement

>>>>You seem to be under the illusion that the world will be a safer place because Amerika has nuclear weapons. It is beyond me how anybody could think that. <<<<

Thats a more accurate statement now.

Bystander Apathy


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Invasion and invasion

28.11.2011 15:07

"Iran has never invaded anybody"

Not directly and not yet is the better way to describe it. Iran funds and arms numerous groups around the world (terrorists / freedom fighters you choose) and is the provider of about half the current weaponry in use by the Talaban in Afghanistan. Its troops cross crossed the border into Iraq frequently to attack Kurdish groups and provide arms to

In the straight of Homuz Revolutionary Guard patrol boats cross into Omani waters on a daily basis, Turkmenistan recalled its ambassador in 2009 as an objection at an Iranian patrol being found 60km inside the country.

Iran is widely recognised as the world's leading state sponsor of terrorism providing funds, training and weapons to terrorist groups including Hezbollah, Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ), Hamas and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command (PFLP-GC). Iran also assists both Shia and Sunni groups in Iraq and the Taliban in Afghanistan. Additionally, Iran has said it will share its nuclear know-how with Islamic countries or groups as it pursues nuclear technology in defiance of the U.N. Security Council.

Iran funds terrorist groups in the following manner:

Hamas: $30 million annually from 1993 – 2006, as well as several hundred million yearly between 2006 and 2009. Iran has also trained almost 1,000 Hamas terrorists in Iran, supporting their travel to Iran through Syria and providing instruction in rockets and bombs, tactical warfare, weapons operation and sniper tactics. Following a November 2006 visit to Iran by Hamas leaders, $250 million was pledged to help the Hamas regime deal with the Israeli embargo. Iran provides the vast majority of Hamas’ weaponry.
Following the Israeli offensive against Hamas in Feb. 2009, Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal visited Tehran praising it for aiding its "victory." In August 2009, Meshaal stated that post-election violence in Iran should not hinder Ahmadinejad’s support for Hamas.
Hezbollah: Over $200 million a year,[12] plus a reported $300 million after the Hezbollah-Israel war in the summer of 2006. The U.S. State Department's 2009 annual terrorism report states that Iran has provided "hundreds of millions of dollars" in support to Hezbollah, and has trained thousands of Hezbollah fighters at camps in Iran. At least 4,500 Hezbollah operatives have received intensive training from Iran.In violation of United Nations Resolution 1701, Iran has re-supplied the Shia terror group with Katyusha rockets, surface-to-air rockets and anti-tank weapons;Hezbollah moreover provides training camps and financial assistance to Hamas. In an interview given to an Iranian news agency, Hezbollah's leader that his group would continue to be "obedient" to Iran. In June 2008, the US Treasury Department designated a number of Venezuelans as aiding Iran's financial network backing Hezbollah through this South American country.
Armed Forces of Columbia (FARC): Iranian terrorists allegedly trained with FARC guerrillas. The 2007 U.S. government’s terrorism Country Reports highlighted Iran’s close ties to Venezuela as cause for concern due to President Hugo Chavez’s ‘ideological sympathy’ for regional terror groups, which previously resulted in illicit arms smuggling and drug deals.
Iraq insurgents: $3 million monthly. Insurgents regularly receive intensive training in Iran. Iran provides explosively formed penetrators and other advanced weaponry (EFP). Weapons captured from both Shia and Sunni groups bear markings of Iranian manufacture.

"Despite its pledge to support the stabilization of Iraq, Iranian authorities continued to provide lethal support, including weapons, training, funding, and guidance, to Iraqui Shia militant groups that targeted U.S. and Iraqi forces," according to a 2009 U.S. State Department terror report.

"Iran's Qods Force continued to supply Iraqi militants with Iranian-produced advanced rockets, sniper rifles, automatic weapons, and mortars that have killed Iraqi and coalition Forces, as well as civilians," according to the U.S. State Department report. "The Qods Force, in concert with Lebanese Hezbollah, provided training outside of Iraq and advisors inside Iraq for Shia militants in the construction and use of sophisticated improvised explosive device technology and other advanced weaponry."

Palestinian Islamic Jihad: In April 2006 Iran reportedly transferred almost $2 million to the militant group.
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command: No direct funding, but the terrorist organization runs Iranian training camps in Syria and Lebanon.

Taliban: Iran's Qods Force provided training to the Taliban in Afghanistan on small unit tactics, small arms, explosives, and indirect fire weapons, according to a U.S. State Department terror report. Since at least 2006, Iran has arranged arms shipments to select Taliban members, including small arms and associated ammunition, rocket propelled grenades, mortar rounds, 107mm rockets, and plastic explosives, according to the 2009 U.S. State Department report. Iran has provided rocket-propelled grenades, C-4 explosives, 107mm mortars, small arms and surface-to-air missiles.

Ilsa


How many Americans does it take ... ?

28.11.2011 15:20

Thanks for pointing that out that Iran has not invaded anybody "directly and not yet [a]s the better way to describe it."

This is undoubtedly correct.

Let us compare these (factual) accusations up against those concerning foreign adventures embarked upon by the United States government (from Clinton onwards - let's not even get to Reagan or even the American coup in Iran), many of which are documented in Ward Churchill's "The roosting of chickens" and in numerous sources elsewhere, it is still the fact of the matter that:

* the United States has embarked on more wars of aggression than any other single nation since the close of WWII, and
* in contravention of the Geneva Convention and the conclusions of the Nuremberg trials,
* has used weapons of mass destruction against civilians and military alike, uses banned weapons (e.g. DU and chemical agents), and
* funds more "freedom fighter" causes against democratically elected, but not pro-American interest, governments ...

the balance of justice still weighs in heavily that Iran be left alone from interference from the United States' expansionist and imperialist ambitions.

Especially since Iran poses no clear and present danger save for that which thwarts the interests of the United States administration, its funders and the numerous foreign lobbyists who stand to benefit from the United States acting as the global policeman at their behest.

Sand in the Vaseline


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Very funny selective editorial censorship

29.11.2011 09:16

Always amusing to see IMC mods selectively censoring comments they don't agree with and to support their friends posts and viewpoints. One individual comes along and points out that Iran is just as bad as America is financing foreign wars and groups and that post is quickly censored, posts that are supportive of Iran are left.

It's no wonder Indy has such a bad name right now.

Former IMCister
- Homepage: http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2011/11/489092.html?c=all


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IMC UK is an interactive site offering inclusive participation. All postings to the open publishing newswire are the responsibility of the individual authors and not of IMC UK. Although IMC UK volunteers attempt to ensure accuracy of the newswire, they take no responsibility legal or otherwise for the contents of the open publishing site. Mention of external web sites or services is for information purposes only and constitutes neither an endorsement nor a recommendation.

bollocks to Hasbara

29.11.2011 10:16

"One individual comes along and points out that Iran is just as bad as America is financing foreign wars and groups"

I doubt very much that the Israel Project is 'one individual'
 http://www.theisraelproject.org/site/c.hsJPK0PIJpH/b.2486101/k.AD22/Iran_Breakdown_of_Financial_Backing_for_Terrorist_Groups.htm

current IMCista


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Even funnier

29.11.2011 12:57

Always laughable to see some individuals at IMC (cough - Roy) think that firstly Israel gives a stuff about Indymedia UK and that secondly they have this vast organised internet responsive unit posting to the site.

Heads up to you Roy, nobody in Israel cares about you. Nobody in the British Jewish community cares about you, nobody in IMC cares about you. You are a sad lonely anti-Semitic bigot who even other mods couldn't work with.

Former IMCister


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