It's a shame that so many woman still feel the need to display a 'victim status' with marches and events like these.

Women are not second class citizens that need some sort of special treatment to be protected. There are big people and little poeple, violent and non violent people. The number one victims of violence in this country are young men between the ages of 17-25.

If women keep on proclaiming themselves as victims then that is how aggresive men will view them.

Violence is part of our society (sadly) and putting forward the idea that women require some sort of special protection from that violence makes us all look weak and in need of help from men (which we don't).

I strongly disgaree with the whole Women Only set up which again makes us seem that we require to be apart from men rather than a part of society. This campaign and the thinking that it encompases has no place in 21st Century Britain.

We live in a world where 90% of women in their life will be raped at least once. Most married woman are raped weekly according to rape crises centres.

These attacks are the result of women still choosing to live in partnership with men when of course they would be better off in women only environments, relationships and workplaces.

Women only marches are part of that.

If you have ever forced a woman to have sex against her will you are a rapist

If you have ever had sex with a woman who had drunk too much you are a rapist

If you have ever made promises to a woman that led to sex you are a rapist

If you have ever persuaded a woman to have sex who said no at first then changed her mind you are a rapist

If you have ever had sex with a woman who regretted it afterwards you are a rapist

If you ever had sex with a woman who was half asleep you are a rapist

If you ever had any form of sexual contact without first receiving clear, concise, willing agreement you are a rapist



That is why we despise you

And you wonder why men find your brand of feminism incomprehensible ?

I don't care if men find our feminism incomprehensible or not.

I look forward to the day when men are no more than the sperm donors we need to continue the species. A world where men have a minor subservient role will be one of peace, social justice and non-violence.

"If you have ever had sex with a woman who regretted it afterwards you are a rapist"

Ummm, what!?
So what about the times I've had sex with a woman and regretted it afterwards, was I raped? I like to consider myself a male feminist but for fuck sake, statements like this give the entire movement a bad name.

"I've had sex with a woman and regretted it afterwards, am I a rapist"

Regretted it ?

Why did the woman not match up to your 'standards' ? Was she not quite 'good enough' for you ? Did she not do the things a diet of porn have made you expect ?

She probably regretted it a lot more than you did and I expect she told all her friends that you were crap.

And yes you are a rapist if you can say yes to any of the above

Why do you care what men think of other woman and you ?

As another sister has said above the role of men in society needs to be radically reduced if we are to save our planet and civilization upon it. The issues we face around climate change, war, poverty and violence are all the fault of men and it is a shame you are still defining yourself by seeking the approval of men. Do you dress to please men as well, I bet you do.

Because patriarchy makes women feel unworthy or unlovable especially if we are single, many women who are in bad relationships end up staying with partners who don’t deserve them. We may blame ourselves for the ways in which our relationships are failing. We can come to rely on the relationship for our self-esteem or even our identity. We can fall in love with the romantic idea of being in love, even if it doesn’t correspond to reality. All of this makes it even harder for us to leave. In this guide, we explore the steps it will take to end a bad relationship and move on.



STEP 1: CUTTING COMMUNICATION

This is the first step to freedom! It is absolutely crucial to give yourself the time and space needed to think about and make good decisions for your happiness and your future.

We understand that cutting communication will be quite difficult, especially in this age of mobile phones, Facebook, and IMs. But it is very important, as talking to them will definitely keep you from making up your own mind about how best to move on. If you end up talking to them, ask them to respect your space and your decision, and not to contact you again.

There are many things you may be thinking about and wanting to say. Get it out, just not to them! Trusted friends are good people to talk to in this case. Alternatively, you can write down the things you want to tell them in a journal or notebook. Don’t type it, as it makes it too easy to email!

Use any combination of the below to help you maintain a safe distance.

Incoming – Par List If someone tries to par the Sistas of Resistance, they get put on a Par List. A par is an extremely rude breach of social standard. People who par you deserve to be ignored.
Make a note as their name on your phone (e.g. DON’T ANSWER) to remind you not to pick up when they call.

If they try to chat with you online, do not respond. In extreme cases, Sistas of Resistance have blocked people. Don’t think we won’t.

Outgoing – Don’t Contact Them! (by text/email/call/FB/chat)
If you are finding it hard to stop yourself from calling them, you need to delete their number. This is not as drastic as it seems. More than likely they will call you back, so you will have their number again. If necessary, before deleting, write the last few digits down and keep in a place you remember. That way, if they call again, you won’t accidentally answer because you don’t know who it is.

NOTE: If they don’t call you back, take that as a sign that you have split up and they were never willing to make even a small amount of effort. You are much better off without them.

Delete all their messages and emails. Use search functions to help you do this quickly and without rereading it all. You may wish to keep some of your favourite messages as memories – but the sentimental value is worth less than your sanity. Delete them. Now.

Make the Cut

Cutting communication is one of the most difficult but most important parts of splitting up. Often a bad partner will have extensive experience at manipulating people. So the best and only way to avoid being emotionally manipulated by them is to not allow them to speak to you. Do not meet up with them and do not answer their calls. Remember that when they say “I just want to talk,” it means “I want to persuade you.”(See Translations for more). A thoughtless partner who only cares about their own feelings will ignore your attempts to split up, will not listen, and willl fail to accept that you are splitting up with them. No matter what trick (crying, faking injury, etc) or line they use to try to guilt you into getting back with them, stay strong. Don’t believe their pleas. Lines like: “You don’t care about me, I can’t believe you’re leaving me / throwing this away,” are attempts at emotional manipulation. There is only way to respond — cut communication.

I made three key changes in my life some ten years ago and my life has been better ever since.

1 Acknowledged I was a lesbian and entered a relationship with another woman leaving my husband and sons behind me

2 Became a Vegan

3 Structured my life to have as little interaction with men as possible.


My life is now immeasurably better, it was hard at first to cut all contact with my sons but once my partner had explained how even they are part of the same misogynistic society that is raping and killing women I was able to make a clean break and live an all woman life that is both empowering and enjoyable. My life means I can go months without any communication with a man and I feel relaxed and safe as a result of that.

I urge other woman to make the break from male dominated society.

Sounds to me like your sons are better off without you if you can be so easily persuaded to abandon them just because you have found a new lover ?

A bitt ironic that women proclaim the right to walk the streets at night without fear of being raped when most rapes are in their own home by some one they know.

Your partner is manipulating you. Anybody who tells you that your sons are

" part of the same misogynistic society that is raping and killing women "

has problems of her own that she needs to deal with away from you. I urge you to consider the relationship and making contact with your children who I assure you will be missing you.

Why is that manipulation ? This sista has correctly identified that every man or boy regardless of age is a potential and likely rapist and / or generally violent toward woman.

"you want equal rights? you got to do equal time" GG Allin.

seriously, my ex partner ("your sistah") used to hit me, i never ever hit her back, what should I of done?
maybe you think she was cleaver for leaving me (simply because I am a man) after she got her visa, well fuck her, now she can move into your lesbo "sistah" paradise and beat the shit out of all of you lot aswell!

I am man yeah, I didn't choose this. I like to ignore the sausage and balls between my legs. when I'm out in the street, or a nightclub or a demonstation, or a libary, and I try to ignore the sexual organs on other people body too, and treat them as individuals.

its not about gender, its about individuals acting selfish towards others and dominating them, and when i hear of one of those reclaim the night things I feel i doesn't help the world a bit, its just making more invisible barriers for people to overcome.

How about this, I once had sex with someone who was a very close friend and regretted it because the friendship became quite awkward afterwards, now this may be an indicator that both she and myself are somewhat stuck in an unhealthy mindset towards sex (that it cannot be enjoyed free from "romantic" relationships) but I do not see how it makes either me or her a rapist?

I was once told that the world would become a much better place through the "feminisation" of society, not by separating men and women, not by putting women in charge but by all of us, particularly men, attempting to grow the stereotypical "female" qualities in ourselves, by emphasizing caringness over agression, understanding over arrogance etc.

Can you really honestly tell me you have never met a man who you thought was a good person?

and theres plenty of trolls on either side of this thread if you hadnt noticed.

the whole reason for reclaim the night is because of women being told not to go out at night or alone and to have men walk women around, so the whole point of reclaim the night is for women going out at night without men whilst raising awareness of things LIKE the fact that most rapes happen in the home and with a partner.

>> If you have ever forced a woman to have sex against her will you are a rapist
Yes

>> If you have ever had sex with a woman who had drunk too much you are a rapist
Wrong

>> If you have ever made promises to a woman that led to sex you are a rapist
Wrong

>> If you have ever persuaded a woman to have sex who said no at first then changed her mind you are a rapist
Utter bullshit - would never stand up in court

>> If you have ever had sex with a woman who regretted it afterwards you are a rapist
Lol! Bullshit. The woman made the wrong decision and then blames someone else.

>> If you ever had sex with a woman who was half asleep you are a rapist
Never stand up in court.

>> If you ever had any form of sexual contact without first receiving clear, concise, willing agreement you are a rapist
Errr......... just say "no"? Actions are a clear, concise and willing indication of agreement without a word being spoken?

>> I look forward to the day when men are no more than the sperm donors we need to continue the species. A world where men have a minor subservient role will be one of peace, social justice and non-violence.
a) Will never happen
b) You are akin to a racist
c) You are obviously somekind of feminist lesbian and so are in a minority with little power over what the majority can and can't do with their lives. Tough!

>> Why did the woman not match up to your 'standards' ? Was she not quite 'good enough' for you ? Did she not do the things a diet of porn have made you expect ?
Good grief, how romantic of you.

>> She probably regretted it a lot more than you did and I expect she told all her friends that you were crap.
Kinda jumping to conclusion based on zilch. Opiniated bollox.

>> As another sister has said above the role of men in society needs to be radically reduced if we are to save our planet and civilization upon it. The issues we face around climate change, war, poverty and violence are all the fault of men and it is a shame you are still defining yourself by seeking the approval of men. Do you dress to please men as well, I bet you do.
Yawn. Utter bullshit. Lower at your local county council where all the power woman seem to have taken control and things are worse than ever which bitch fighting.
Gender has nothing to do with it. Just pick the best person for the job.

>> Because patriarchy makes women feel unworthy or unlovable especially if we are single, many women who are in bad relationships end up staying with partners who don’t deserve them. We may blame ourselves for the ways in which our relationships are failing. We can come to rely on the relationship for our self-esteem or even our identity. We can fall in love with the romantic idea of being in love, even if it doesn’t correspond to reality. All of this makes it even harder for us to leave. In this guide, we explore the steps it will take to end a bad relationship and move on.
Stop blaming others!!!!!! If your relationship has failed, deal with it and do something about it. It is not the fault of the population of men. It is your and your partners fault. To then stay in the relationship because you would be more miserable single is FUCKING SAD and your own fault. If you can't hack it as a single, then thats your fault - not someone elses.


>> This is the first step to freedom! It is absolutely crucial to give yourself the time and space needed to think about and make good decisions for your happiness and your future.
Absolutely

>> I made three key changes in my life some ten years ago and my life has been better ever since.
1 Acknowledged I was a lesbian and entered a relationship with another woman leaving my husband and sons behind me
Fine. Bit harsh on the sons though.

>> 2 Became a Vegan
Irrelevant. I (and many others) eat lots of meat and are perfectly happy too. No correlation between vegan and happiness. I'm personally on the Paleo diet and love it.

>> 3 Structured my life to have as little interaction with men as possible.
Your choice. Bit defeatist if you ask me.

>> My life is now immeasurably better, it was hard at first to cut all contact with my sons but once my partner had explained how even they are part of the same misogynistic society that is raping and killing women I was able to make a clean break and live an all woman life that is both empowering and enjoyable.
Your sons are rapists??!?!?!?! Having sons supports rape?!?!?!?! Get a grip.
The problems seem to lie with you, not anyone else.

>> My life means I can go months without any communication with a man and I feel relaxed and safe as a result of that.
To be honest, this is probably some psychiatric issue along the lines of a phobia of men called "Androphobia". You got two choices, live with it, or get it treated. Sounds like you are doing the former. Suggest doing the latter. People who have a fear of spiders can overcome it within a week of treatment.

>> I urge other woman to make the break from male dominated society.
Or get treatment - or, at least try?

Sounds to me like your sons are better off without you if you can be so easily persuaded to abandon them just because you have found a new lover ?
Jill
Safer on the streets than at home
31.10.2011 16:23

>> A bitt ironic that women proclaim the right to walk the streets at night without fear of being raped when most rapes are in their own home by some one they know.
Side issue. They are just pissed (rightfully so) that they are being told the realities of not walking around dark alleys on their own (also rightfully so).

>> Why is that manipulation ? This sista has correctly identified that every man or boy regardless of age is a potential and likely rapist and / or generally violent toward woman.
Potentially != likely. Your statement is bullshit. Most men aren't "likely" a rapist. Look at the crime stats. Approx 30million males in the UK, are they all acting like rapists? Bullshit.

>> the whole reason for reclaim the night is because of women being told not to go out at night or alone and to have men walk women around, so the whole point of reclaim the night is for women going out at night without men whilst raising awareness of things LIKE the fact that most rapes happen in the home and with a partner.
fuck's sake

Wrong - woman are "advised" not to go out at night or alone etc.
No one is telling them what they can and can't do.
Its common sense advice based on the realities of the world, it is not advice based on political correctness.

Facts are: men and woman are not equal.....
The ideal that men and woman are equal is bullshit. To say they are denies the strengths of one over the other. Men are stronger, they can run the 100m faster etc. FACT
Deal with realities, not bullshit idealism.

Reading through the comments I hear a lot of anger, and a lot of defensiveness. I don't see anything that suggests violence against women is OK. So we are all agreed on that? And that there's a problem that needs solving?

I wonder how we can, collectively, go about that? I don't think an exchange of views on the Oxford Indymedia site is enough. I think we might have to get together to talk about things. Any ideas on how to make this happen?

...come on, some of these posts are obviously deliberate misrepresentations of feminism (probably by the same person) by an anti-feminist designed to make their feminists seem "unreasonable" or "extreme", and blaming victims for any violence they receive.

Not sure exactly who would be doing it and for what reason, but it is pretty clear to me that someone is playing games here.

It's unfortunate that Reclaim the Night appears to have been hi-jacked on here by a group that seems to advocate some form of separatist 'gender nationalism' or even 'gender fascism'. Now, as I understand it, feminism, though a wide and varied movement, is all about women's liberation. However, what is presented here is nothing more than a self-loathing hate-fest from some sort of weirdy-shit cult that's heavily into self-oppression. Not good.

And as for leaving your sons because they are potential 'rapists and abusers', you really need to wake up and get your brain unwashed. This comment: “…it was hard at first to cut all contact with my sons but once my partner had explained…” strongly suggests that your current partner is a controlling abuser. Wise up and dump her for a non-controlling sister who won’t mind you seeing your kids.

reclaim this thread

it's 2011 and people are still so afraid of women's equality it seems they are resorting to trolling and nastiness to belittle those who are campaigning for it. suggests to me there's still quite a long way to go. doesn't make me want to give up, though it also doesn't make me particularly want to 'reach out' to you all. now, tell me why I should support your equality and freedom when you don't support mine?

as for 'stop making yourselves victims or of course men will rape you', that is the worst, most heinous victim blaming i've come across in a long time. is it the fault of cyclists when drivers run them off the road? is it the fault of peaceful protestors when the police beat them up? is it the fault of those on low incomes when the government cuts benefits?

thought not. develop some empathy, and start to practice solidarity.

I know about "radical feminism" and its views on gender separation, etc. but I strongly suspect many of the posts here purporting to be from radical feminists are actually from bigoted men just wanting to troll and disrupt. So try not to rise to the bait!

I hope you're right and this is the work of trolls, because it has nothing to do with any liberatory feminism that I know of. Like I say, it has all the hallmarks of a cult.

I'm also hoping that the woman who left her abusive male partner only to find an abusive female partner (who has interfered with her relationship with her kids and persuaded her to break contact with them) is also just a troll, because if not and this is a real story, then that would be very sad for the mother and particularly for her kids. If we wish to continue the 'rape is...' analogies further, then the sort of mindfuck that woman is currently being subjected to by her controlling partner can definitely be classified as rape. I do hope it's just a troll.

I suspect that the posts above that caricature feminism are indeed from trolls.

These attacks are obscene and offensive. Think about it. If this was a campaign for the safety and dignity of black people, run by black people, would it be acceptable to troll the report in this way? Would you expect the campaigners to shrug it off and go 'oh well, just one of those things'? Or would you be ashamed to be part of a movement that embraced and found room for such overt racism?

As surprising as some of these comments may seem to some having spent some time in California up until a year ago I can confirm they are prevalent in some parts of the feminist scene there. I am in a committed relationship with a man and was called a traitor to the cause on more than one occasion because of it.

There is a certain part of the feminist movement that sees the issue as one of sidelining men to a role in society that is little more than sperm donor, they blame men for the world's problems and see a woman controlled world as the only way to save the planet.

All the man-haters can go live on an island somewhere, leaving all those who appreciate decent people (regardless of their gender - birth or the gender they identify with) to live in peace and harmony. How about that?

I believe some on here are described well by John Gabriel's Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory.

Normal person + Anonymity + Audience = Total Fuckwad

 http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/215499488_8pSZr-L-2.jpg