I definitely was alive and, in fact, I still am. Me and my friend Barrack decided to 'kill' me off so now I'm working in a chip shop in Barnsley. Don't tell anyone though, Elvis beats me if autograph hunters start snooping about

Reading these articles has one advantage - whatever they are blethering on about is the exact opposite of reality. Thus reality != Global Research.

the secret truth is osama and obama are almost the same word apart from just one letter

if you take the b from obama and the s from osama you have BS

this proves that the story that osama and obama are two different people is BULLSHIT

they were always the same person. When obama played osama he simply dressed differently and wore a fake beard


officially osama was 6'4'' while obama is officially 6' 1'' but when obama played osama he stood on tiptoes to pretend to be bigger so noone recognised him

the whole special forces operation never happened

its all lies i tell you

Indeed we wholeheartedly support the "mayday collective" in its struggle to continue with open posting and a uk indymedia that is not a mere accumulator for 4 local groups ...

HOWEVER the argument would be even stronger if you stopped providing a platform for outright conspiracy theory nonsense and dictator-coddling such as the shite from "global research". We can have some standards.

"officially osama was 6'4'' while obama is officially 6' 1'' but when obama played osama he stood on tiptoes to pretend to be bigger so noone recognised him

the whole special forces operation never happened

its all lies i tell you "


This is extremely weak and feeble.

The US has just carried out a major and very serious deception which the bulk of the media around the world have gone along with, rather than pass judgement on this and accept it as an opportunity, you post deranged and petty garbage that nobody in their right mind cares about.

What exactly is the point? Are you a supporter of the Democrat Party? Maybe its supposed to be humorous, in which case I can tell nobody is laughing!


"HOWEVER the argument would be even stronger if you stopped providing a platform for outright conspiracy theory nonsense and dictator-coddling such as the shite from "global research". We can have some standards."

Ok, that's good. Where is the article you posted about this story?

Please provide a link to it here so we can see what position you have taken on this very serious matter.

Bottom line is we are going to see an upsurge in posts from truth activists over the next few months, but it will pass, in my view these posts always contradict because of this editorial guideline:

-Inaccurate: posts that are inaccurate or misleading.

And often/sometimes because of these editorial guidelines:

-Non-news: posts which are clearly purely comment, opinion or rants unrelated to a recent event or action etc.

-Discrimination: posts using language, imagery, or other forms of communication promoting racism, fascism, xenophobia, sexism, homophobia or any other form of discrimination.

However, the comment section has had some good debate, which exposes the myths and misconceptions put across by the truth movement to any lurkers reading, which gives a more rounded picture - some of the truth BS, is slick BS, and I am amongst those who were first suckered by it. I do agree with hiding articles which blame Jews for 9/11, or that put across the idea that Muslims live in caves though.

Probably it is a lie. But so what?

The war-on-terror is nothing more than a spectacle to make us feel powerless and to get us supporting one rich, right wing scumbag or another. Both sides are led by the rich, both sides are utterly evil. The people in Arabic countries have the right idea - no to Islamism and no to corporatism too.

"However, the comment section has had some good debate, which exposes the myths and misconceptions put across by the truth movement to any lurkers reading, which gives a more rounded picture - some of the truth BS, is slick BS, and I am amongst those who were first suckered by it. I do agree with hiding articles which blame Jews for 9/11, or that put across the idea that Muslims live in caves though."

And

"The war-on-terror is nothing more than a spectacle to make us feel powerless and to get us supporting one rich, right wing scumbag or another. Both sides are led by the rich, both sides are utterly evil. The people in Arabic countries have the right idea - no to Islamism and no to corporatism too."

Are very good illustrations of how to fail at everything you do.

Let me say this outright here so there can be no problems with understanding.

Indymedia is a severe problem for the Whitehouse, and most major governments around the world. It represents a narrative which in and of itself is of potentially fatal significance to the authority of government. You see, all governments need complete control of the public discourse. Complete control infers that any issue that is difficult for the public to consume, can be edited and re-formulated by government and media in order to make things...more palatable. Any object or entity that exists outside of this arrangement...is a major and very very serious problem.

So...one has to expect that government, or those who represent it, either intentionally or unintentionally, will attempt to do anything they can to bring it under control. Enter conspiracies, undercover police, state agents, disruption, infantilisation, carefully crafted inacurate content and relentless politically motivated content published with one sole and long-standing objective...disable Indymedia UK. Remove it from a position where it can effect the public discourse.

So if you want to post with only one complaint about what the police, politicians, media and security services are doing here, then you are doing their work on their behalf...unpaid. You are highlighting their work, identifying with it, encouraging others to consider it above other more important content and disabling your own train of thought.

Or, you can teach yourself to see reason, see the object for what it is, and you can identify, engage with and sterilise this dubious content whenever it appears.

If you are really concerned with things like justice and fairness and are truly engaged with the idea of freedom of speech, then this will be truly effortless for you. There isn't so much as a single member of the entire apparatus of the state that can compete with you on this ground. If you have problems with these concepts, then the whole world is going to be a confusing mish-mash of tangled nonsense in which you cannot discern one tactic from another.

Try to remember this, most people when they reach the end of their lives consider one point more than any other. They consider why they didn't take more risks.

Don't be so frightened about picking a fight with the enemies of the people. They really are tyrants at heart, despite how expensive their suits are, how wonderfully white their teeth are, despite how much fake tan they are wearing. They are all tyrants at heart. I know, I have met most of them. You'd be surprised at how anti-social these figures are when the camera's are not recording.

So if you want to continue with Indymedia, you are really going to have to grow a backbone, and you are going to have to concern yourself a little less with content published on this site by people who are paid to undermine you and everything you represent.

As I said, if you know what is right, there is no-one that can stop you.

Now, Osama Bin Laden? Did you know the Americans have had him holed up in Pakistan since 2004? And what do you think of the fact the US Democratic party have just summarily executed him in his safe house while at the same time dumping the Pakistani's for all the world to see?

"So...one has to expect that government, or those who represent it, either intentionally or unintentionally, will attempt to do anything they can to bring it under control. Enter conspiracies, undercover police, state agents, disruption, infantilisation, carefully crafted inacurate content and relentless politically motivated content published with one sole and long-standing objective...disable Indymedia UK."

Methinks you take yourself just a tad too seriously. I doubt if the White House is even aware of Indymedia, and, if it was, couldn't give a f*ck.

"So if you want to post with only one complaint about what the police, politicians, media and security services are doing here, then you are doing their work on their behalf...unpaid. You are highlighting their work, identifying with it, encouraging others to consider it above other more important content and disabling your own train of thought."

Strawman argument, I said nothing about police, politicians, media and security service postings, merely postings from truth activists, which I think come from truth activists.

"Methinks you take yourself just a tad too seriously. I doubt if the White House is even aware of Indymedia, and, if it was, couldn't give a f*ck."

As a longstanding activist and having been in direct conflict with both the Whitehouse and Downing Street on a number of occasions I can only disagree.

The Whitehouse and Downing Street are perpetually concerned with the content of IMC UK and the content of Global Indymedia. They are also avid readers of Jihadist arabic-language websites. The Whitehouse and Downing Street policy units are not concerned with what gets the audience, they are concerned with who's got the ideas.

Perhaps your problem is you spend too much time watching TV. Maybe you read the Sun or Daily Mirror and can't tell shit from shoe polish?

If you disagree then you can always leave and go piss your life away on Twit-Face!

Downing Street? The White House? Add the Kremlin and you might get the full set. For you're surely short of a card or two in your deck.

"Strawman argument, I said nothing about police, politicians, media and security service postings, merely postings from truth activists, which I think come from truth activists."

Perhaps they have come from Truth activists, but then again perhaps they haven't.

"Downing Street? The White House? Add the Kremlin and you might get the full set. For you're surely short of a card or two in your deck."

No, Just the Whitehouse and Downing Street. Does that seem to be impressive to you?

I can assure you its no big deal!

Still no pictures yet.

Just a lot of guff and wittering from "the media that started the war".

They say that it would make an interesting experiment to stuck someone on and island with no information about the outside world except the Daily Mail.

It would be far more interesting to do the same with Global Research - the fountain of truth and wisdom.

"The Whitehouse and Downing Street are perpetually concerned with the content of IMC UK"

I now realise you are of course taking the piss and having a bit of fun winding up activists. Very funny and well done.

So there's no positive identification of the body of Hitler.

I tell you he's alive and well in Buenos Aires and is in constant touch by telephone with the ReichsKanzellor - oops, I mean Frau Merkel.

Sieg Heil. Or not.

And Osama bin's consigned to history.

"I now realise you are of course taking the piss and having a bit of fun winding up activists. Very funny and well done."

No, let me be absolutely clear. I say what I mean and what I believe and know to be true.

Lets just say that I have had the very great honor and privilege to be fortunate enough to have walked in every hall of society from the very bottom to the very (almost) top. I also have the very great honor to be able to pass onto activists in the UK what I know.

Which I do freely, because as you can so clearly see, those at the top aren't up to much!

"So there's no positive identification of the body of Hitler"


That's because there was nobody available in Berlin at the time to take the picture...which is understandable really given what was happening.

But that clearly isn't the case here is it?

The US will release this proof. They will do it immediately and without further debate.

How on earth am I supposed to believe bin Ladin's dead if the US Navy didn't send me the head? If they don't send me bin Ladin's head THIS INSTANT I'm going to shout that the whole thing is a fake!

"How on earth am I supposed to believe bin Ladin's dead if the US Navy didn't send me the head? If they don't send me bin Ladin's head THIS INSTANT I'm going to shout that the whole thing is a fake!"

Ok, you do that and while your scaring everybody and getting dumped by your girlfriend, we'll stay here and wait for conspiracy theorist's in the Whitehouse to release the evidence!

"Lets just say that I have had the very great honor and privilege to be fortunate enough to have walked in every hall of society from the very bottom to the very (almost) top. I also have the very great honor to be able to pass onto activists in the UK what I know.

Which I do freely, because as you can so clearly see, those at the top aren't up to much! "

Gonna play a bit of 'Guess Who?' here, if this is not a joke on your behalf, I am gonna go with David 'Shyster' Shayler.

"Gonna play a bit of 'Guess Who?' here, if this is not a joke on your behalf, I am gonna go with David 'Shyster' Shayler."

You have never heard of me. The only people you have heard of are the thrill-seekers and vanity addicts.

Of course there are fanatical jews, just like there are fanatical Frenchmen.

To suggest that 'The Military Industrial Complex is safeguarding our rights and freedoms by attacking fanatical Muslims whilst taking its cue from fanatical Jews ..' is straight out of the mouth of Goebbels. It is language used by Nazis. Use the language of the Nazis if you like, but don't be surprised if people them take you for one.

BNP or StormFront?

Is "irritant" Charlie Veitch?

"Zionist dominated government seek to further their war on terra aims by stirring up Muslim sentiment via their zionist dominated media. They claim that a bad man was killed and that they killed him (forgetting to tell us that for many years he was their go to guy in the Muslim world). They would like us to think that they can do the same to any of us, any time any place. So be good, agree with them, work hard for them and DO NOT question or complain."

Yes, its Charlie Veitch. I know that language a mile off.

This is the guy who spent his time walking around London attaching himself to activist groups with a megaphone.

I remember him walking around Strand or somewhere like that broadcasting the official view of the group as anarchist's from the police/state point of view but trying to be "ironic" about it. The problem was, it was so so easy for people to "not see" the irony and instead see a man openly walking along with a megaphone behind anarchist's broadcasting the "public" view of anarchist's as chaotic trouble-makers and openly belittling and ridiculing them right under their noses.

I was with this group for most of the day and was stunned to the core that the group couldn't see what was so clearly an undercover nark attached to them.

It is easily possible to be "too clever" when it comes to activism Charlie!

No one is interested in claiming that fanatical buddhists etc run anything.

They don't own the media, don't buy every political party, haven't displaced a whole people in a genocidal mass movement, don't control the federal reserve, don't have nukes aimed at the capital cities of the west and don't have a fanatical creed that preaches moral and temporal superiority over non buddhists.

Get real and stop insulting the memory of the dead by calling everyone you disagree with nazies.

It is likely that the posts above contreven the Race Relations Act 1976:

'(1)A person subjects another to harassment in any circumstances relevant for the purposes of any provision referred to in section 1(1B) where, on grounds of race or ethnic or national origins, he engages in unwanted conduct which has the purpose or effect of—(a)violating that other person’s dignity, or(b)creating an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment for him.'

Indymedia claims to be a publisher, and its servers are housed in the UK. By allowing such comments to be publicly available on its website, it could be argued that Indymedia is publishing such material. Even hiding these posts may not be sufficent, as they can still be accessed.

I thrust Indymedia thinks very carefully about allowing such posts, open or hidden, lest it might have its collar felt by the Old Bill.

Watta Larf speaks a lot and says nothing.

Shut up, please, or rent my ears.

The sad thing is that whenever the discussion takes a turn for the worse for those that support zionist agendas and the general anti-humanistic philosophies of the religion that is judaism, the anti-semitism monster rears its ugly uninvited head.

Is that the be all and end all of discussion here? Whether a few political zionists and extremist religionists are offended?

Sure don't seem to matter when christianity is getting bashed, no one notices or comments on the continuous stream of bile and abuse directed at muslims (let alone the many many many deaths of muslims in 'our' wars to make the world a safer place for zionism).

What utter hypocrites.

What total false representation some people manifest here, pretending that they are interested in the lot of humanity as a whole, but only raising hackles and voices when judaism is targeted for the natural and justified attention it should recieve more.

Stuff your anti-semitism where the sun don't shine - we don't need or want to tread on eggshells when it comes to truth and justice.

Shove your false activism back into the Tel Aviv ghetto whence it came.

"Shove your false activism back into the Tel Aviv ghetto whence it came."

Ah. Don't like antisemitism, and dare to say so on Indymedia UK? Then you get called an zionist agent of Tel-Aviv. Because why else would anyone possibly be bothered by antisemitism?

Except maybe that Indymedia UK is supposed to be an anti-racist site, and has a terrible record of shouting down the antisemitism issue with false cries of "zionist"?

That's so fucked up it's hard to know where to start.

"The chairman of the Israeli parliament's Foreign Affairs and Defence Committee has urged the government to step up assassination operations against the leaders of Palestinian factions following America's killing of Osama Bin Laden in Pakistan. Shaul Mofaz, MK, referred to the Palestinian groups as "terrorist organisations".

Mofaz made his outrageous suggestion on Radio Israel: "If terrorist activity [sic] continues to originate in the Gaza Strip, the leaders of Hamas should be made aware that they are potential targets for assassination and that such targeted killings are considered unquestionably legitimate."

The opposition Kadima Party MK claimed that, in killing Bin Laden, the United States has adopted the Israeli strategy of targeting "terrorist" leaders. This has, he claimed, been a proven success over a number of years."

 http://uruknet.com/?p=m77431&hd=&size=1&l=e

Hey, it's their call. The mayday collective's reputation is already dogshit in the wider network because of the hijack. Why shouldn't they add a little antisemitism to the mix as well?

"Yeah yeah, be provocative if that's your bag - you are far from the truth and do no one any favours with your sub-student easy pre formed position, the harder, more useful thing would be to actually analyse the reality."

I have analysed the reality at close quarters in close up in Israel, Gaza and the West bank. This experience tells me what I know. I am an activist that doesn't speak unless I know for sure that my complaint is based on fact. I am not somebody that campaigns or holds a view simply because that is the view of my group. Fact or reality, never received wisdom. Not on a subject as important as this. I am truly sorry that you have such a low opinion of students!

"No. The problem lies squarely with the jewish extremism that produces, informs and directs zionism and all its associated projects."

Go to Israel and see Zionism for yourself, DO NOT simply resign to the lazy-man approach of accepting the problem on grounds of ethnic dispensation. If you believe that, can you please now make a statement about the volunteers of Israel Indymedia. Openly stand on this view that its all the fault of Jews against members of the Indymedia Israel Kollective. Lets see the colour of your money?

"Do we really need to display here the words of judaisms highest authorities - they ain't pretty but they are pretty mainstream in the jewish world."

What highest authority is that then, self declared religious fanatics that have 'chosen themselves' to speak for the Jewish people! Let me ask you a question. Does your nationality as being British mean that you are automatically a capitalist, a christian, a Conservative, a Liberal Democrat, a White Nationalist, a White supremacist, a Labour worker, a Stalinist, a Socialist? Does your ethnic background automatically qualify you as a degenerate member of the British war-mongering class? Because I can take you to any place in the world and declare you as an enemy of the people simply by betraying your nationality to the locals. Will your status as an anarchist mean anything to the locals if they hate you because you are British?

I have met Jews who despise Zionism. I have met Jews who work against it on a daily basis and I have met Jews who are valuable allies to the Palestinian people in their fight against ethnic eradication by the fanatics who call themselves Zionist's. Your argument that they are not to be trusted because they are Jewish...is of very great use to those Zionist's. Of very great use indeed!

"Yet again, there are those loud and persistent attempts to remove the issue of israel and religious[jewish] extremism from the discussion of the 'war on terra'. Have any non muslim areas, countries or organizations been targeted by the western imperial forces?"

This is an obvious statement of fact that everybody understands. Of what use is it to perpetually repeat that which is routinely accepted to be true? One aspect of the so-called War on Terror (you must always write "so-called" before repeating this phrase, anything else is careless and sloppy), is that those who are prosecuting it need public support else the whole episode is a non-goer. From a government point of view, gaining that support has always been a problem. So what you are complaining about, is that the US and UK government have found support in amongst the Jewish community more than any other. What is it that has brought the situation about?

Step forward anti-semitism.

You see, there is nothing like anti-semitism to inflame a Jew. There is nothing like anti-semitism to force a Jew into rallying against that which is deemed to be anti-semitic. It is an historical hair-trigger that is of agonising significance for all Jews the world over (and rightly so, the holocaust was a tragedy). So in order for government to consolidate support for the so-called War on Terror at a time when it has little or no domestic support, it must use the politik of anti-semitism to "drive" Jews toward a massed "defence of Israel" against the "evil muslim barbarian".

Populating Indymedia with anti-Jewish comments or complaints of anti-semitism, drives Jews and ordinary people away from the content of Indymedia and into the arms of a government that is waiting to claim that it has complete control over the public consensus. The very war that you are apparently so "appalled" by, is the very same war you are helping to consolidate and helping to perpetuate.

The Zionist could not be any more pleased with your sterling work for their cause.

"How can you look yourself in the mirror and talk about racism and yet ignore the reality of who is victim and who is perpetrator? You should be ashamed, but you are not."

The older you get, the more inclined you are to think that those who complain the most about the behaviour of others, are simply telling you what qualities they possess that they are most aggrieved about when witnessed in others, hence the constant bitterness and complaining!

"If you had any interest in truth and justice, you would abandon the false equidistant that characterise the lefts response to religious extremism and tell 'it' as it really is. But as has already been pointed out, you have no shame, have substituted blind faith for reason and consigned yet MILLIONS more brown skinned peoples to violent deaths for no other reason than you are a moral coward."

My view is that the only tactic that works, is the tactic that works. I am a pragmatist first and foremost. My interest is social justice and that is why, regrettably, I am forced to abandon anything that can be presented as being "of the left". In exactly the same way, I am forced to abandon anything "of the right". Dismissing both these political "camps" makes me a reliable campaigner for social justice. Indymedia is about autonomy. Left and right are of no relevance. I am a moral man.

"It should be apparent to those with clear heads, the kind of pressure and implied threats that go hand in hand with your pronouncements and positioning - step out of line and you are 'bad', 'evil', a 'nazi' and prone to the violent denouncement of the Stalinistic mindset."

I think your upset about the criticism I have made of your arguments and your politics. But you have to understand that Indymedia is itching to complete its work. This is not unreasonable. Every generation has its guardians of conscience, every generation has its moment when the old guard is dismissed and the new guard steps forward to replace it. That moment has come and must be permitted to appear. Your comments are counterproductive and damaging to the collective conscience of Indymedia and what it represents.

As many others have said in this and a great many other conversations over the years, they want to appear to the world as a force for good having opposed that which they cannot tolerate. We all want to deal the current elite the blow it deserves and we all want to move toward a world that we will be living in and we will be responsible for. That world will include the Jews and that world will include the muslims.

Indymedia must have the future it has worked for and deserves.

You must not interfere with this.

"Hey, it's their call. The mayday collective's reputation is already dogshit in the wider network because of the hijack. Why shouldn't they add a little antisemitism to the mix as well?"

I am a genuine contributor to Indymedia and have been since 2008. I am committed to Indymedia and would never ever seek to undermine its reputation or undermine its authority as a vessel of free speech.

That you should offer this comment is just about as dubious as its possible to get.

Disgraceful.

I am a genuine contributor to Indymedia and have been since 2002, and I am not alone in recognizing that the Mayday collective has a Jew problem. This is one of the things that fired up the UK split back going back to 2008 -- lots of the bethemedia group just couldn't stand the way Mayday people ignored and *actually fought for* antisemitic posts on Indymedia UK.

"I am a genuine contributor to Indymedia and have been since 2002, and I am not alone in recognizing that the Mayday collective has a Jew problem. This is one of the things that fired up the UK split back going back to 2008 -- lots of the bethemedia group just couldn't stand the way Mayday people ignored and *actually fought for* antisemitic posts on Indymedia UK."

Coming from an unusual direction of being an MSM worker who joined the alternative media, I can see that disruption of Indymedia is obviously a problem.

But the "Jew problem" you so eloquently allude to has nothing to do with Indymedia.

I think it is probably the case that those people who are are claiming Indymedia has a problem with publishing anti-semitic content, are almost certainly the people responsible for the posting of that content.

Its called a stitch up.

The Mayday group have my confidence.

i think bethemedia is utter and complete horse-shit.

it looks like a copy of indymedia but run by the labour party. all the jobs on it look like labour party worker stunts. there's fuck all about the politics of autonomy and there is fuck all criticism of of the uk state. its all red-flag bollocks and anti-tory/lib dem bollocks.

silly cunts at the labour party are responsible for this dogs dinner of a manipulative mess.

give me indymedia any day.

"Its called a stitch up. "

If saying so, with no evidence whatsoever, makes you feel better, then who am I to complain?

Just one problem, though. What exactly is keeping Mayday from removing the antisemitic posts?

Oh, yeah, that's right. They just don't.

"If saying so, with no evidence whatsoever, makes you feel better, then who am I to complain?"

The evidence is writ large across the pages of Indymedia for all the world to see. It is recorded, in place and cannot be removed. How I feel about this is not relevant.

"Just one problem, though. What exactly is keeping Mayday from removing the antisemitic posts?"

Why would Indymedia want to remove them? Its evidence of tactical anti-semitism. We users and contributors are not fools. In the pursuit of the truth, our standards are demonstrably far higher than that of our opponents.

You might think me smug. But, then again you would wouldn't you!

Let me just make sure I understand the current
state of the conspiracy theory. The antisemitic
posts, we're being told, are actually being posted
by Jews, and Indymedia is leaving the posts up as
proof that Jews are posting antisemitic posts.

When do we get to the part about lizard people?

Nobody has claimed any post has been written by a jew except...you.

You are looking like a sad sack of sorryness now! Beyond pathetic!

'You are looking like a sad sack of sorryness now! Beyond pathetic! '

funny comment, look in the hiddens and see who got spanked and whined about it. Hint: anon.