...it's populated by trolls, bitter and mad activists, moralistic liberals, and people with not much of any use to say. Talk to the people you know in Germany I suggest, or visit people here that you know. The only campaign is No Police Spies which is controversial politically.

I think our best defence is to keep fighting and forget about Kennedy and the rest.

Indymedia is really not the appropriate forum - anyone who has been using indymedia for the last few years will know how much trolling and deliberate disinfo was going on. Just check out the gateway-303 stuff for starters.

Is anyone willing/able to post a better translation of the article...google translate didn't give me a sense of what their point is.

...and on the article, and the question of 'campaigning' on this issue, I agree with exposer that we should be continuing to fight as we were doing before and forget about the individuals trying to thwart us, at least for now.

This statement...
 http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2011/03/474961.html?c=on#c265675
...shows the diversity of opinion on the matter, and illustrates how divisive the media coverage of the issue was, and how difficult (even impossible) this issue is to present in a way that isn't really problematic politically.

How is it possible to campaign without falling into arguments that pit us against each other... good protestor/bad protester, violence/nonviolence, threat to the state/no threat? I think that whilst the mainstream media is still interested in sensationalism we can't really publicly dissect the why's and wherefores (and indymedia is extremely public, with nasty comments quoted in the tabloids during that fortnight of madness).
I think various gatherings/meetings etc around the country will talk about issues raised and lessons learned, these have been advertised on here and will probably achieve more sensible debate than anything on-line or in the press.
I also think that many people who may have more to loose from information that undercovers may have passed on will be wanting to keep a low profile on the matter for a while longer.

"I agree with exposer that we should be continuing to fight as we were doing before and forget about the individuals trying to thwart us" -- How, pray tell, will this help exactly?

Countless organisations and actions were compromised by infiltration, and it's clear that many organisations remain compromised considering the amount of bad blood being generated by certain "Marco Jacobs" style activists who are being neither challenged nor exposed! The sad fact is that the British movement is still so heavily infiltrated that even scandals like the Kennedy affair are being stage-managed into obscurity by certain interests. The only realistic response is to be VERY careful with British activists, and don't rely on the fact that they are well known and liked to count for anything, (as shown by the Kennedy case).

The safest option is not to trust ANY British activists because of the majority's refusal to even reflect upon the fact that they've been, (and continue to be), heavily infiltrated by police and corporate interests. The dysfunctionality of the British movement is clear for everyone to see, and their complete refusal to address the fact that their government has been sending spies to disrupt movements across Europe is an utter disgrace.

In reply to the original author, the only true thing said in these comments is that Indymedia UK is not the place for these kind of discussions anymore. I suggest that you post the same article on Urban 75 (urban75.com) and Libcom (libcom.org) forums, where you might get a more realistic response.

"on Urban 75 (urban75.com) and Libcom (libcom.org) forums, where you might get a more realistic response. "

You are insane.

...drum roll please for.... A.Realist, for perfectly proving my point about the politically deranged idiots that post on here and so make sensible discussions impossible.

Well done, please come to the front and collect your prize... you complete prick.

Undercurrents is discussing with various UK activist groups about producing a video which can be used by campaigners so get in touch and we can chat.

Regards postings on indymedia about anything to do with Police spies- you will gets many fools such as A. Realist posting nonsense so please ignore.

In response to A Realist, I would draw yr attention to the following. Alongside from the undercover cops reality, there has long been allegations of a Oxbridge clique dominating positions of power and steering agendas in activist politics as far back as I am aware in the UK. In large part, it has been a tendency within the environmentalist movement generated by the intellectual wave of opinion associated with such long established publications as The Ecologist which didn't necessarily incorporate any class analysis in it's own analysis and as a result, the politics of activism directly emanating from it. RTS did, however, manage to traverse the frontiers of both simulateneuosly, although elite tendencies emerged in that 'open network' over time which slightly dictated agendas, though not entirely disastrously (a leading light over the course of last 15 yrs has never publically contradicted a claim made in the public domain a few yrs ago that he was the founder of RTS - which is absolute rubbish! )

This dichotomy was more prevalent in the Climate Camp from the start. Part of the problem, in my opinion, has been that environmental activist politics has been too often entranged from workers struggles, which is why Workers' Climate Action was a real breath of fresh air.

But what fucked the scene the most was Ketamine as that underground culture and grassroots politik that was the mainstay of the activist scene such as in the anti-roads days subsided

I'm sorry, I'm a prick for mentioning the "elephant in the room"? The fact of the matter is that it's a certainty that there are still active police spies in the UK movement, (and also the German movement for that matter)!

There has also been no serious effort to develop a means to expose their methods and the main means of handling the crippling disruption caused by this issue seems to be to pretend it doesn't exist and it doesn't affect things, (which is an utterly absurd approach and the reasoning behind it should be strongly questioned). But, of course, to do so is met with a combination of insults and dismissal, or even just ignored as if it wasn't said.

It's a well known fact that Oxbridge is a major recruiting ground for the UK security services, yet nobody has questioned the nature and behaviour of the Oxbridge cliques who seem to be directing the UK movement, (usually down blind alleys), and causing splits in established collectives. It's also a well documented fact that "Marco Jacobs" employed tactics to create factions and cause tension within groups, so who's to say that this isn't continuing now in the "dysfunctional" collectives that are either splitting or quitting?

As for the media handling of the situation, it's been just as bad as the handling of the spies themselves. After all, ignoring something and pretending it isn't there doesn't make it so! The media are there and they're not going to go away, so letting them set the agenda is seriously irresponsible. However, the fact is that the UK media have provided far more information on the infiltrators than the activists ever have. In fact there seems to have been a serious attempt by some activists to cover it all up. Why is that?

British activists need to take a long hard look in the mirror, because as an expat I can tell you that the handling of the police spies scandal has caused serious concern in the (foreign) movements that I'm active in. I'm not active in Germany, but I imagine there's as much confusion and head-scratching going on there as there is in other European countries. Whether you like it or not, you need to get your house in order because the handling of this has been very, very poor, (from an international perspective).

@An exposer: Before you start handing out prizes and throwing around insults, please explain exactly what I've said that marks me out as a "politically deranged idiot" and how exactly my contribution makes "sensible discussions impossible"? I gave the view from the outside looking in, and whilst you may not be comfortable with it, I think that my points are valid and require sensible consideration and discussion.

@muntstonia: Wasn't RTS heavily compromised by Jim Boyle? As an old participant I certainly recognised his face as a party regular, although I never had any personal involvement with him so I have no idea what his impact was on the movement itself.

So, things that made me say that...

Your insistence that the safest thing is that people should stay away from 'English' activists, huh? What do you mean by that, I mean seriously. What about people that have visited England? Are they suspect too? What about people with English friends? Guilty too?

Your delusion that the movement here is dominated by an Oxbridge elite - what planet are you on? The movement here is varied and complex, saying any elements of it are dominated by an Oxbridge elite, who do you think the movement is exactly, cos that's not anything I recognise.

You say we're (whoever the we are) refusing to acknowledge we've been infiltrated. Who is refusing this then? Nobody I know is, infact IMO people have spent far too long going on about it to not much useful end.

Your mad imaginings that people within the scene are trying to cover things up, who exactly? What evidence do you have for this, or is it some half-imagined conspiracy, or something you're read on the web?

The media have provided more information that some of us because they have the resources and contacts to get it. And it makes good stories to sell papers. Accusing us of not having the same contact with the police is crazy.

Methinks you've got no real connection to things here, and maybe not even wherever you live. If you did have you'd realise how crazy and erroneous your strange conclusions are.

I propose you start with reading  http://fitwatch.org.uk/ that is by far the best source there on this issue.

Since when did discovering and exposing the longest term police infiltrator ever known in the british environmental movement constitute a coverup, a refusal to address infiltration or leaving them "unchallenged and unexposed" ????? This is madness.

From the ludicrous levels of criticism and lack of support the people who outed Kennedy have received (online at least) I think anyone with serious doubts about the identity of an activist in future will just keep quiet. Well done folks for criticising each other more than the cops or the state they serve....what a great movement we have....I bet they're just loving the effect they've had.