And maybe someone who knows how to campaign effectively might also offer them some tips on how to resist the cuts because protesting outside Vodafone and Topshop isn't a realistic or effective tactic! These protests may close a shop or two for half a day, but the impact of those actions compared to the amount of money saved from ripping off the UK taxpayer simply isn't going to make them start paying their taxes like they should!!!

We need to start being more realistic about how we act and being more critical of some of the pointless feel good activism that wastes energy and achieves nothing. Activism is like jujitsu, we need to use their energy against them rather than throwing oursleves off cliffs in pointless symbolic actions...

A Realist - we await news of your actions oh wise one

To A Realist: what would non symbolic action look like?

Here is some analysis of UKuncut protests from Libcom:

 http://libcom.org/blog/some-thoughts-uk-uncut-demonstrations-03012011

 http://www.ukuncut.org.uk/ isn't this the real address 'swampy and the lads' lol

Domain ID:D160991660-LROR
Domain Name:UKUNCUT.ORG
Created On:19-Dec-2010 11:12:35 UTC
Last Updated On:18-Feb-2011 03:49:15 UTC
Expiration Date:19-Dec-2011 11:12:35 UTC
Sponsoring Registrar:OnlineNIC Inc. (R64-LROR)
Status:CLIENT TRANSFER PROHIBITED
Registrant ID:ONLC-4263849-4
Registrant Name:Swampy and The Lads
Registrant Organization:Swampy and The Lads
Registrant Street1:The Squat
Registrant Street2:The Squat
Registrant Street3:
Registrant City:London
Registrant State/Province:England
Registrant Postal Code:SW7 4RE
Registrant Country:GB
Registrant Phone:+44.2075551212
Registrant Phone Ext.:1111
Registrant FAX:+44.2075551213
Registrant FAX Ext.:
Registrant Email:
Admin ID:ONLC-4263849-1
Admin Name:Swampy and The Lads
Admin Organization:Swampy and The Lads
Admin Street1:The Squat
Admin Street2:The Squat
Admin Street3:
Admin City:London
Admin State/Province:England
Admin Postal Code:SW7 4RE
Admin Country:GB
Admin Phone:+44.2075551212
Admin Phone Ext.:1111
Admin FAX:+44.2075551213
Admin FAX Ext.:
Admin Email:
Tech ID:ONLC-4263849-2
Tech Name:Swampy and The Lads
Tech Organization:Swampy and The Lads
Tech Street1:The Squat
Tech Street2:The Squat
Tech Street3:
Tech City:London
Tech State/Province:England
Tech Postal Code:SW7 4RE
Tech Country:GB
Tech Phone:+44.2075551212
Tech Phone Ext.:1111
Tech FAX:+44.2075551213
Tech FAX Ext.:
Tech Email:
Name Server:NS1.DNS-DIY.NET
Name Server:NS2.DNS-DIY.NET

Having your page attacked like this feels like a badge of honour to me. Obviously some people DO feel hurt by UK Uncut's actions ... (And note that they're having others at their disposal with access to cctv & names, how very surprising.)

@ all the 'real militants' (if they're even real i.e. non-trolls at all) also on other threads: I agree with the above hint 'lead by example' - by which i don't mean bickering about and defaming others, but do your own thing.

However, personally I'm also critical of relying too much on facebook, twitter, googlemail etc. I feel this might boomerang in an unpleasant way and is bound to happen sooner or later, so I suggest the people concerned might take the attack at hand as an occasion to think about such things in depth, in case they haven't done so already.

Keep up the good fight!

im sick of these would be activists trying to put down everyone else. these guys are mobilising thousands of people for their actions!!! how is that a bad thing? they are costing these shops thousands of pounds in (untaxed) revenue!!! this is exactly what we want to be doing isnt it??!?!?! @ a realist; please organise something that tops uncut because if you do, it will be mind blowingly good.

1) I'm no longer in the UK so leading by example will be a challenge. However, as a successful economic migrant I left the father land due to the increasing repression and lack of oportunity. But, as has been requested, my first suggestion would be to join the 'brain drain' if you possibly can and abandon that god forsaken island! Now, whilst I recognise that many people can't do that for whatever reason, I did a long time ago and that is me leading by example, as was so aptly suggested!

2) I read the Libcom article and it makes no comments or suggestions on the choice of targets. It provides a commentary on the resistance to the cuts and discusses the willingness of the protestors to resist them but it doesn't discuss the efficacity, (or lack of), targeting high street companies. However, the fact that the campaigns against the cuts are recieving widespread support is no surprise...it's the equivalent of asking people to join the fight against breast cancer or some other tragedy that effects ourselves and/or the people around us, and for this exact same reasons it's no surprise that these actions are more 'militant' than the average protest.

3) It wouldn't surprise me at all if the website hack was done at the behest of one of the major targets, Vodafone, Arcadia Group or whoever else, and there is no doubt in my mind that the targets are feeling the heat from these actions, but I don't realistically believe that targeting them is going to make them pay their tax bills and it's certainly not going to stop the scumbags in this government devastating public services, (and the country at large), with these ill-intentioned cuts! Sure it makes a bit of media, but so would any action against the cuts in the present climate, so why not consider where the most impact could be had?

4) I will stop short of making any suggestions that could be more effective for risk of being alleged to incite unbecoming activity, however people should think harder about where they apply their pressure and the outcomes it will have because at the moment the potential for genuine social change in the UK is being squandered in these ill-conceived campaigns targeting tax dodgers rather than targeting the tax loopholes that their accountants are exploiting!

5) As someone who's no longer a resident, (or even a citizen for that matter!), of the UK, I'll now bow out of this conversation as it doesn't directly affect me or my interests anymore. But, as a citizen of the world, I'd ask that you all strongly consider your actions in context of what they will actually achieve rather than what you hope they will achieve! For example protesting against the aviation industry is fine, but it's utterly pointless if you support the most polluting industry, (animal agriculture), by eating meat and drinking milk. After all there's no such thing as an omniverous environmentalist, it's what's called an oxymoron!

Be creative, but be coherent as well...otherwise it's just 'feel good' activism, and the last thing the world needs is another Greenpeace!

A Realist has a point, even if he/she came in with a harsh bit of flaming to begin with.

I applaud UK Uncut for their efforts and think they have an entirely legitimate aim. I do hope that these protests evolve, however, to make the link between the ethical question of corporations paying a fair level of tax and the legislative question of government allowing them to do so.

In other words, maybe the next step is to highlight the need for the loopholes to be closed and for such tax evasion to become unlawful. The popularity and public sympathy to the important moral point UK Uncut are making could then be channelled into a concerted effort to lobby government in significant numbers and build a campaign for reform in this area. The corporations will never volunteer to pay more tax, they'll ride out the protests until they die down and any media focus shifts elsewhere, but if enough pressure can be applied to the government by a public demanding change, maybe, just maybe, these corporations can be forced to pay a fair amount of tax by legislative reforms.

Just my thoughts.

so your point is, all summed up:

1) you don't live in the UK and you are not a citizen and everyone should abandon Britain and give up on the struggle here

2) you don't agree with the targets of UK Uncut and you are not prepared to voice any other realistic target except vaguely; 'tax loop holes' (which, in the grand scheme of is target of various tax avoidance groups involved in this movement).

maybe you should have just wrote it like that. it would have been quicker for everyone. personally, I think the corporate high street is a great target:
1) big business and corporate greed need to be challenged as much as possible and this is a great opportunity to physically confront them over one of the many grievances we have.
2) how would the whole issue of tax avoidance have gained such gravitas (especially with the young generation of students) without lively, active in your face protests like the ones UK Uncut has been holding?
3) With high street shops, the target is in the public where lots of people can see where we can gain media attention whereas targeting tax loop holes is anonymous and ambiguous. there would be no direct action or mass participation we would be petitioning and campaigning through the law system which is what rigged up the loop holes anyway.

Our cuts group really tries to raise awareness from the general public and do events that are fun and informative. Along side this we also encourage people to write to their MPS to put pressure on them to close loop holes and we also encourage them to change banking / shopping habits. If the public don't know then I guess they never will, so it's important that any message gets across. The feedback we have had has been quite positive, no information or action that raises awareness and can bring even a few new people to care about the country is wasted. UK uncut does fill that gap somewhat. Standing in out in gale force winds and freezing rain for 2 hours or so last weekend did not feel like “feel good or glamorous” activism

I also have other thingsI am active in but feel that the more people who take notice of what the tax cheats are up to the better.

As for leaving the country? Well, I have thought about it but as most places are as bad as here, filled with the same corporations what’s the point? I think it's important to fight for the country and the people here; this is where my family and friends are. It's important to me that the country is run for all our benefit.

Now is not the time for negativity but for solidarity...

Somebody involved in hactionlab might be able to help advise on securing websites:
 http://hacktivista.net/hacktionlab/index.php/Welcome_to_HacktionLab

I've put the article on their mailing list.

You, UKUncut, probably need to give some sort of contact details.

I agree with your point that "big business and corporate greed need to be challenged as much as possible and this is a great opportunity to physically confront them over one of the many grievances we have." However, I don't agree that the best way to react to the government's irrational and ideological cuts is to target tax dodgers as, in my opinion, this is a diversion of necessary energy away from the best target who are the elected representatives who (at least in theory) control the purse strings.

I agree that there should be some energy directed towards tax dodgers, but I believe that making this the main focus of the anti-cuts energy is ineffective, poorly thought out and wrong! I don't wish to be seen to incite activity, especially as I won't be there and therefore it would be disingenuous, but I would suggest that the action, (published on this newswire), at Lambeth Town Hall is a more effective means of approaching this issue and focusing energy.

I don't have time to debate and keep replying, I think I've made my points clear enough and whether people wish to agree with them or not is their perogative, but I'm sure that if anyone reads my words objectively they'll understand that the main thing I ask it that people think about what they're actually doing rather than blindly following without questioning or considering the actual impact. I'd have thought with the recent exposes of the interference of state and corporate spies in the British campaigning movements, (at the very highest echelons of organisations), it wouldn't be unreasonable to at least consider the intentions and impact of those who organise actions and question whether we're being led down the path of 'feel-good activism'!

A glaring example of what I would describe as 'feel-good' activism, which I have already presented, are the groups targeting the aviation industry, claiming to be envrionmentalists, who are not addressing the worst excesses of their own consumption, such as the consumption of animal products, which are responsible for at least 24% of all global emissions. Personally I'm an environmentalist who takes action against the energy and transport industries, however I also refuse to consume animal products as this is THE single most effective thing a person can do!!!

We have very little power, so with this in mind it's vital that we use what energy we have to best effect and make sure that we try to avoid acting in a counter-productive manner. Finally, and just to clarify, I'm not criticising the people who take action...I'm just suggesting that the focus needs to be directed in the most effective manner, and unfortunately I'm not convinced by the direction being taken. Maybe it's naivety, maybe it's not, but whilst you chase tax dodgers the government is going to take your jobs, your homes, your services and your dignity!

This is a troll website as someone has already pointed out.

The fact that the post is posted to indymedia as a jpg screenshot has allowed it to stay up.

It's spam.

The real ukuncut website is www.ukuncut.org.uk

Jesus.