The No Police Spies campaign
No Police Spies | 22.02.2011 18:41 | Social Struggles | World
The No Police Spies campaign has been set up to call for an independent judge-led inquiry into the police infiltration of protest groups. We are seeking a wide-ranging inquiry, that will addres the many and serious issues that have emerged in recent weeks following the exposure of undercover police officers operting inside the UK protest movement.
The issue of out-of-control undercover policing has led to widespread media and public outrage. Yet, we feel that we only stand a chance of holding the police to account for this disgraceful practice if all the facts are laid bare and made public, and the police are forced to answer the many serious questions that have emerged. An independent public inquiry will go a long way to holding the police to account, and may even lead to changes which significantly reduce police powers.
The police do not want a public inquiry. They’ve tried to drown out talk of a proper inquiry by launching four investigations of their own, all of which are being conducted by bodies barely at arm’s length from those whose decisions are being investigated, and all hopelessly narrow in remit. They’ve also tried to diffuse the pressure with a couple of ill-thought through reforms, such as moving the unit responsible for spying on protesters to under the command of the anti-terror chief.
The police know that many of their actions are unjustifiable and in several cases could well be illegal. These actions include but are not limited to serious allegations such as suppressing evidence from the courts, sexual misconduct of serving officers and officers acting as agents provocateurs. Police-led inquiries will not adequately address these issues. Our bets chance of holding the police to account and forcing changes in law which may reduce their powers is to push for an independent inquiry. As the police run for cover, seeking to avoid scrutiny as they’ve been doing for years, our determination to press for answers only grows.
***************
No Police Spies came out of small group of individuals who felt this was a good course of action to pursue. However, No Police Spies doesn’t in any way wish to be seen as “the movement’s response” to the revelations that have emerged – it is simply one response among many. A whole range of responses are taking shape, and will take shape in the future. These may range from the practical to the legal to the political. The effects of undercover police officers, combined with the diversity of groups they infiltrated, mean that there was never going to be a single appropriate response.
No Police Spies is an autonomous campaign. It does not seek to speak for any group or individuals.
We are aware some groups may not want to have their name directly associated with the campaign for political or legal reasons. To this end we have now put a disclaimer on the website making clear the campaign is not affiliated to those groups who Mark Kennedy infiltrated. See here: www.nopolicespies.org.uk/disclaimer
****************
The campaign would very much benefit from wider participation, and needs a variety of skills to be effective. If you are keen to get involved, do contact us at
info@nopolicespies.org.uk
Even if the campaign isn’t really your sort of thing, but you feel there is something we should know, please speak to us. The broader the range of input, the better for all concerned.
Finally, we are aware that the issue of undercover police officers touches on some very sensitive issues, and the last thing anyone campaigning for an end to police spying wants to do is to add to the upset individuals are feeling. To this end, we have set up a specific highly confidential email address for individuals to raise concerns about how the campaign is communicating. We have already made language changes having heard such concerns with individuals, and would be swift to make more should concerns we haven’t yet identified be raised. Email inconfidence@nopolicespies.org.uk
Check out and join:
www.nopolicespies.org.uk
www.facebook.com/nopolicespies
www.twitter.com/nopolicespies
The police do not want a public inquiry. They’ve tried to drown out talk of a proper inquiry by launching four investigations of their own, all of which are being conducted by bodies barely at arm’s length from those whose decisions are being investigated, and all hopelessly narrow in remit. They’ve also tried to diffuse the pressure with a couple of ill-thought through reforms, such as moving the unit responsible for spying on protesters to under the command of the anti-terror chief.
The police know that many of their actions are unjustifiable and in several cases could well be illegal. These actions include but are not limited to serious allegations such as suppressing evidence from the courts, sexual misconduct of serving officers and officers acting as agents provocateurs. Police-led inquiries will not adequately address these issues. Our bets chance of holding the police to account and forcing changes in law which may reduce their powers is to push for an independent inquiry. As the police run for cover, seeking to avoid scrutiny as they’ve been doing for years, our determination to press for answers only grows.
***************
No Police Spies came out of small group of individuals who felt this was a good course of action to pursue. However, No Police Spies doesn’t in any way wish to be seen as “the movement’s response” to the revelations that have emerged – it is simply one response among many. A whole range of responses are taking shape, and will take shape in the future. These may range from the practical to the legal to the political. The effects of undercover police officers, combined with the diversity of groups they infiltrated, mean that there was never going to be a single appropriate response.
No Police Spies is an autonomous campaign. It does not seek to speak for any group or individuals.
We are aware some groups may not want to have their name directly associated with the campaign for political or legal reasons. To this end we have now put a disclaimer on the website making clear the campaign is not affiliated to those groups who Mark Kennedy infiltrated. See here: www.nopolicespies.org.uk/disclaimer
****************
The campaign would very much benefit from wider participation, and needs a variety of skills to be effective. If you are keen to get involved, do contact us at
info@nopolicespies.org.uk Even if the campaign isn’t really your sort of thing, but you feel there is something we should know, please speak to us. The broader the range of input, the better for all concerned.
Finally, we are aware that the issue of undercover police officers touches on some very sensitive issues, and the last thing anyone campaigning for an end to police spying wants to do is to add to the upset individuals are feeling. To this end, we have set up a specific highly confidential email address for individuals to raise concerns about how the campaign is communicating. We have already made language changes having heard such concerns with individuals, and would be swift to make more should concerns we haven’t yet identified be raised. Email
inconfidence@nopolicespies.org.uk Check out and join:
www.nopolicespies.org.uk
www.facebook.com/nopolicespies
www.twitter.com/nopolicespies
No Police Spies
e-mail:
info@nopolicespies.org.uk
Homepage:
http://www.nopolicespies.org.uk
Comments
Hide the following 62 comments
Waste of time
22.02.2011 19:00
Even if No Police Spies achieves its objective of getting an inquiry it is going to be totally biased and will end up giving the police a clean bill of health. Simply because the police may not want a public inquiry does not mean that we should.
NL
liberal crap by
22.02.2011 19:23
crap liberals
yuk
22.02.2011 19:27
makes me sick
Paranoid witch hunts can do more harm than good
22.02.2011 19:59
A disruptive agent could abuse this all to easily. For example the green movement could easily be smashed by denouncing campaigners/activists of various political backgrounds.
A disruptive agent could ruin trust in open events, a simple game of "spot the copper" could offend staight looking supporters, many of whom you really need.
And Indymedia might be left facing massive libel lawsuits.
r
Well Said Crap liberal....
22.02.2011 20:09
Aunty Christ
Yeah I agree...
22.02.2011 20:12
I think there's a very interesting discussion to be had this year amongst the movement... there are lots of people, mainly that got involved through climate related activism, and lots of them have brought pretty liberal politics with them. Rather than becoming more radical, actually there is a critical mass of them in the scene now to be in quite a position of strength, and they (especially given their willingness to talk to the media and their easily Guardian friendly politics) are becoming quite dominant, bolstered by some very confident, media savvy and careerist long term liberal activists in the scene.
I think some of them have a massive mis-understanding of what constitutes radical politics too, and they mistake militant for the same as radical; as in they think that cos they have politics that supports criminal damage and a bit of scuffling with the cops, that makes them a radical, rather than a militant liberal.
IMO liberal doesn't mean someone that doesn't support rioting, but someone that doesn't see class as the basis for our politics, and sees people as purely individuals, equal to make choices or not in society. They often just see politics as a moral choice, i.e. those that recycle/don't fly etc are on our side, and those that don't are the enemy.
As someone once said, the thing about in-fighting is to decide who's in and who's out... bring on the discussions...
Lev Chernyi
Why No 'Police' Spies?
22.02.2011 20:47
This campaign will be welcomed by private sector spies because it could create a very lucrative market for them if it succeeds.
PS
This stinks!
22.02.2011 20:51
No Liberal Parasites Campaign
Don't harrass the white, middle-class liberals PLEASE!
22.02.2011 21:22
A.C.A.B.
I support this...I think
22.02.2011 21:34
ACAB
typical rhetorical crap acab
22.02.2011 22:19
We don't want policing to get 'out of control' or (heaven forbid) 'political' or it could target the 'wrong' people, people who don't really want to change anything. You idiots really are an embarrassment - assuming this is not just a state op. 'In confidence'?! I wouldn't touch you with a cop-bought barge-pole.
Oh here we go again... the anti middle-class brigade going on about how amazing the working class is and how they are so much better than everyone else. Well, listen idiot - we can't all be working class can we? Some of us happen to be middle-class and if you've got a problem with that then thats your problem, not ours. To be honest, I wouldn't want to be touched by your barge pole where ever it came from. No go and get some more working class tattoos and fix a pipe and acabradabra with your little wand somewhere else
anon
A complete waste of time
22.02.2011 22:21
Come on Brad get back to climate campaigning. With the possibility of widespread anti-cuts protests in the next few months there is no way that the government is going to sacrifice its ability to monitor us under the guise of ‘domestic extremism’. And if the police are neutered then the function will be taken over by MI5 which could be a lot worse.
And as someone has rightly pointed out, if in the unlikely event that NPS succeeds it is simply going to open up the field for totally unaccountable private outfits such as Global Open and Rebecca Todd’s company to fill the gap which is, arguably, even less desirable.
Jax
Class, class, class...
22.02.2011 22:35
Really the only classes of interest in the struggle are the ruling class of capitalists and politicians, and the rest of us - those that have to work to live.
Having said that, people need to accept that they have some privilege above others in the scene, and that's what we see here. The fact that some people are able to do these campaigns cos they have the career or the power within society that let them get the ear of The Guardian and similar liberals.
So, anarchists who have a crass definition of class, and those that ignore it completely are both two sides of the same coin IMO. Class in conjunction with anti-state anti-capitalism is the only basis for radical politics, please come to some useful understanding of it!
The autonomist understanding of it is useful as a starting point.
MG
@MG
22.02.2011 22:42
i guess if being middle class makes me a wanker, then i'd best act like one.
An attack on middle class is an attack on me.
middle class anon
Who are these people?
22.02.2011 22:47
anon
It's not an attack on being middle class..
22.02.2011 22:51
Jon
Attn anon middle class
22.02.2011 22:59
The world's smallest violin
THANK YOU JON!
22.02.2011 23:07
Struggling!
You are all completely wrong!
22.02.2011 23:12
You may not like the way that we are doing it but we have sought the advice of MPs and lawyers and this is our best bet so please stop the mindless criticism and let us get on with the job. At the same time we are seeking to undermine the HMIC investigation and to demonstrate that only a public judge-led inquiry is sufficient.
There is a lot more that cannot be said at this stage but it is in the long-term interests of the broader movement that it succceeds so please trust us on this one and stop mindless nit-picking!!!
No Police Spies supporter
Class
22.02.2011 23:16
Tom
Well done No Police Spies supporter!
22.02.2011 23:55
LOL!
No!
23.02.2011 00:19
Activist
Entertaining comments
23.02.2011 00:47
Some people really need to chill out and not get so up tight about things like this. Liberal reformism isn't my cup of tea either, but if people want to do it then good luck to them. I'm not going to get my knickers in a twist over it. There are more important things to get stressed over.
It does make for some entertaining reading though ;-) In a kind of sad way. ;-(
anon
"Campaigning for an end to political policing"
23.02.2011 01:06
A.C.A.B.
Why it makes me angry
23.02.2011 02:10
@
call out and respect where due
23.02.2011 02:23
anon
Oh look...
23.02.2011 03:35
Joe
No Police Spies IS an activist-led campaign!
23.02.2011 07:14
So you can get angry and scream and shout and even throw your toys out of your playpens but when your future actions are successful because they are not being compromised by the likes of Kennedy it will be us that you have to thank.
It is YOU, not us, who are doing the police’s dirty work, and No Police Spies deserves all the support it can get from the broader activist community.
No Police Spies supporter
You arrogant shits
23.02.2011 07:52
The only impact that it could possibly have is to help give police infiltration some formal and legal standing because the problem is never going to go away.
Not a No Police Spies supporter
Jesus Christ...
23.02.2011 09:03
Kennedy was gathering intelligence on more people than a bunch of soppy twats on fixed wheeled bikes in London, and some people could get royally fucked if the cops feel cornered. Do you think that senior pigs got to that position without being able to play politics?!
Rudeboy
To the No Police Spies Supporter...
23.02.2011 09:16
'Genuine activists'
I think is a point worth discussing, but I can't be bothered here. Think about what an activist is and does and whether they are the agents of social change or is it more than just them?
'The Guardian is behind it'
Of course they are! It fits totally with their lame liberal 'the state should be a little nicer' and target the really nasty ones. Which you are playing along with, whether you realise it or not.
'A public judge led inquiry is the best way of stopping police infiltration'
Errr.... no, the best way is to have some strong, broad based movement that wins! Which this campaign doesn't contribute to.
And accusing people who are criticise this campaign of doing the police's work is just fucking lazy and wrong.
And as for Rudeboy, 'soppy twats on fixed wheel bikes'... oh how I laughed! Nice one mate!
dave
'Genuine activists'?!
23.02.2011 09:19
Long-standing activist
To Anon
23.02.2011 09:20
Infact, I would argue all policing is political, as it's about maintaining the status quo, even when they do something 'worthwhile'.
You show up your shit politics with statements like that.
Another Anon
Fleet St spies
23.02.2011 09:45
Anonymous
The arrogant middle-class
23.02.2011 09:52
CW
You can align yourselves with the State
23.02.2011 09:57
nuff said
We need to use the mainstream media
23.02.2011 10:10
We are only going to win this campaign if we have the media on our side. The reason why there are FOUR inquiries is not because you lot have been shouting but because of the pressure from the media. This is why as well as using its political contacts, 'No Police Spies' has a coherent strategy for using our friends in the media as well as working with independent production companies, who are interested in the story, and Undercurrents.
Your ostrich-like approach to the mainstream media is simply not sufficient. We’re not going to achieve our objective of a public judge-led inquiry without the help of newspapers such as the 'Guardian' and 'Observer' which have done so much to assist the campaign so far.
You must remember that the police definitely do not want a public inquiry and they have tried to drown out talk of a proper inquiry by launching investigations of their own, all of which are being conducted by bodies barely at arm's length from those whose decisions are being investigated, and all hopelessly narrow in remit.
Therefore, in order to assist us, it is vital that anyone who has information about the activities of these undercover police officers should contact us on our confidential and secure email address -
No Police Spies supporter
Constructive debate
23.02.2011 10:13
I have huge problems with this campaign, it's analysis and potential effects. I don't believe it's possible to engage with the media on this subject without falling into the trap of either saying we're no threat so don't bother with us, or that we're dangerous terrorists and deserve what we get. I don't think there's any benefit to be doing any more media on this issue.
However, The media source that's been most disturbing to read throughout this whole debacle has been the comments section of Indymedia. Can people not make their points without padding it out with comments nonsense like:
"fuck off back to where they came from" and "soppy twats on fixed wheel bikes"
It's just vicious, un-constructive and distracting. It's making me think that this movement really isn't going to achieve anything...it deserves to just implode in on itself.
If the best we can do is either the no police spies campaign, or the opposing view which only expresses itself by vicious name calling and conspiracy theory crap.
...Doesn't anyone have anything sensible to say????????
Alienated
Good example of media assistance
23.02.2011 10:24
No Police Spies supporter
To Brad and No Police Spies Supporter
23.02.2011 10:52
Pointing out that The Guardian and Observer are on our side... What do you mean by OUR side? You mean YOUR liberal side. Long term it's not about 'winning' this or any other campaign or rights. It's about building a radical movment to challenge the state and capitalism. Climate change is far from the most important thing or issue going on, stop thinking it is and it might help you have better politics.
We have no friends in the media for this. There are a few people who agree with some liberal reforms, but no more than that. I don't care about public enquires, nor judge led inquiries, the BEST they could offer is some whitewash with a few reforms, but at the expense of many other things that are much more important.
The Guardian article by Bradley is a perfect example of representing us a well meaning, peaceful, caring liberals, which is NOT what most of see ourselves as or want to be seen as. And IMO it is damaging in the long term, not least cos it then leaves those of us that aren't that out to dry when the state wants to smash us - do some reading on how the state destroys radical movement, engage and facilitate the softer elements (you) while marginalising and then smashing the radicals - which this campaign helps! You can see here how devisive it is already, and you were warned by numerous people.
Bradley and others, go and read some radical books, talk to those with proper politics, not liberal climate campaign ones. What you are doing is damaging our movement. Stop being so arrogant that all the people that disgaree with you are wrong and you are right.
And just as a point, those people involved in the Radcliffe justification trial can stop moaning about this campaign. I was in court and all you lot did was bleat on for weeks about how respectable and harmless you were. Moaning about this campaign doing exactly the same now seems slightly hypocritical!!
HG
HG
23.02.2011 11:28
I'm more interested in what you mean by it right now.
A bunch(?) of antagonsitic, insulting testosterone fueled commentators attacking stuff on a website?
Some kind of growing effective movement that is moving us to a better world?
Individuals who have no interest in making points and seek to alienate?
Or what?
Oh yes, and what do you think the appropriate response to dealing with police infiltration of protest groups is?
GH
Respect?
23.02.2011 11:58
Some people are setting up a campaign, they're not claiming to represent anyone but themselves, and they're clearly doing it with good intentions. If you don't agree with their tactics or approach, then it's perfectly possible to post a critical but constructive comment that suggests alternative ways of doing things without resorting to offensiveness and personal abuse.
At the same time the "No Police Spies Supporter" isn't helping their cause very much with his/her rather self-righteous comments that seem to ignore the genuine criticisms directed at the campaign.
I'm always slightly perplexed by the Indymedia comments - when these kind of important debates happen in activist meetings they're usually carried out in a respectful and sensitive way, with everyone making a genuine effort to understand other people's points of view. On Indymedia, there's all this bile and abuse that I just don't recognise compared with real-life interactions within the activist community. Where is it all coming from?
As more people join a movement and it grows (which should be a good thing and make us more powerful if we do it properly), the politics become more complex and we have to work harder to identify our common ground and figure out how to work together while staying true to our aims. It's a difficult process but we're not going to move things forward by tearing chunks out of each other on these comment boards. Please, let's disagree with each other and debate this important stuff, but let's do it in a respectful way!
Observation
To GH
23.02.2011 12:06
More importantly I would say OUR side is the global class of people that have the power to destroy capitalism, crassly called the working class, which in my defintion includes all those who are not in the ruling capitalist class, so yeah that includes students, doctors, all those kind of people that are traditionally seen as middle class. The rubbish definition that both lots of anarchists have as well as guilty middle class types is the same - some cliched flat cap wearing coal miner! It's about position to power within society, not cultural class. Do you own the means of production or do you have to work for those that do, very simply as someone once said!
I do think that middle class values are a real problem in our scene though. They have a cosier relationship with power (and the cops and media) and this campaign is a real example of this practically.
Just because some people on here come out with crap, angry, ill-thought out slag-offs (although where do you get testosterone fulled from I don't know, maybe examine your gender politics!) does not let the NPS campaign off the hook. People are fucking angry at this, and I think rightly so. Some of the anger comes from the radicals being in a position of weakness in our scene (as I think they have been or the last few years partly due to the politics that the climate campaign has encouraged within our movement) and thos angry comments are partly cos of that.
That and the fact that some people are actually at a personal and political risk, that the people behind thid campaign are not. Brad and the people with well paid activist friendly careers really need to be slightly more self aware about how that influences their choices and politics.
The approriate response to cop infiltation? Examine our politics and take radical and militant positions openly, make ourselves stronger by making real links (especially at the moment with all that's going on), think about serious issues that we tend to fudge (like class, internationalism and activism). Not mount liberal campaigns that will divide us and make us weaker.
HTH?
HG
the nature of the state
23.02.2011 12:06
p
The UK "activist" movement is a joke...
23.02.2011 12:10
The only effective movement in the UK in the last few years has been the animal rights one, which at least has achieved something. Credit must also go to the local groups who have organised to stop local issues, but these ridiculous actions like blockading planes whilst continuing to fly, (and eat animal products, which are THE biggest polluter), simply have to stop!
Why not have a campaign against "police spies", it's no more ridiculous than closing down a Vodafone shop for a couple of hours whilst Osbourne clamps down on the welfare state. And all these ACAB comments and supposed "anarchists" all sound a bit Gateway 303 to me anyway.
Finally, feel free to take my IP and run with it...
A. Realist
Some more criticsm.
23.02.2011 12:11
If the cops were looking to get something out of this i.e information that could lead to arrests most likely they would have gone in mob handed when the shit went down, to gather any evidence that may 'have been laying around' before it went the way of Mark Kennedy.
The reason why people get so angry about this sort of liberal response is that they know personally that the mainstream media is utter filth when it comes to backing radical campaigns. They are propped up by State and corporations.
Though The Guardian avoids or vilifies other radical campaigns, they seem content to jump into bed with the cosy liberal climate campaign, as this seems to be an effective form of campaigning form their point of view. And actually important, unlike most other things in the spectrum.
Still it won't be long before most of the people in this campaign, get married/have children and try to settle down somewhere nice like Hebden Bridge. Whilst the political establishment continues to oppress and brutalise.
The climate campaign has been severely damaged by steadily encroaching liberalism. As for making a few senior coppers squirm, i'm sure the PR department will give them some good coaching to avoid any serious problems. It really is utterly irrelevant. Perhaps, the next lot of infiltrators will not get sucked into the quirky life style choices of the few to try and fit in, but just do their own thing.
Yah
Nonsense
23.02.2011 13:10
"The only effective movement in the UK in the last few years has been the animal rights one, which at least has achieved something. Credit must also go to the local groups who have organised to stop local issues, but these ridiculous actions like blockading planes whilst continuing to fly, (and eat animal products, which are THE biggest polluter), simply have to stop!"
What does any of this have to do with a class based analysis and anti-capitalism? It is a liberal, moralisitic response. How can you compare AR to the struggles against capitalism? What has vegetarianism got to do with getting rid of capitalism. Likewise resusing to fly? Very little. This just betrays the insular, scene based nonsense of this entire thread.
...
Support this and smash the state
23.02.2011 13:41
HG attacks the Radcliffe lot but court is simply play acting to get the optimum result for you – no holes barred except never implicate someone else.
A. Realist is right it's only results that count fuck political purism some people are acting like religious fundamentalists – whatever works. If you want to point to a tactic as correct don't give me ideological bullshit, show me meaningful results. None of this 'symbolic' crap (it has its place but not as a main tactic). If you are waiting around building a mass for a revolution without actually changing things now – how's that worked out for you over the last few decades?
Attack the state everywhere from within, from the streets, divide them and rule as they do to us, destroy their property and disrupt their minds, focus on any and all points of vulnerability and most importantly actually force real changes and victories. No victories, no point.
(A)
a call for more mutual respect
23.02.2011 15:06
> of important debates happen in activist meetings they're usually carried out in
> a respectful and sensitive way, with everyone making a genuine effort to understand
> other people's points of view. On Indymedia, there's all this bile and abuse that I just
> don't recognise compared with real-life interactions within the activist community.
> Where is it all coming from?
Couldn't agree more. I have strong feelings about this issue myself but I can see that people on both sides of the debate have good intentions.
I guess what happens is that people have a lot of resentment about these kind of issues, built up from having come up against them time and again.
When discussing in person you can connect to the other person emotionally and are more likely to respect them even if you whole-heartedly disagree.
The problem with the internet is it breaks that human connection and it becomes all to easy to stereotype people, and let rip all that pent-up resentment without considering whether it's particularly helpful for the movement to express it in that way.
Don't get me wrong; the debate *needs* to happen. But not like this.
.
comment 50...
23.02.2011 15:31
unnecessary
Comment 51
23.02.2011 16:23
;-)
Justifiable anger
23.02.2011 17:51
My 1st post
confusion here
23.02.2011 18:40
lol! what a monkey
>> Why is stupid state-friendly reformist crap even on Indymedia? For me, as others have said, you are traitors putting activists at risk for personal gain. You deserve to be treated accordingly.
Maybe you are on the wrong site baby? This is indymedia not some shrivelled ex-con website.
rouserbouser
Traitors to what?
23.02.2011 19:11
"self-appointed, politically clueless, liberal careerists" "parasites who deserve the same fate as the fucking cops" "idiots" "the usual suspects trying to carve out a little career niche for themselves" "a wanker" "the sort of totally clueless self--serving twat that people are 'nit-picking' about" "The fools behined this campaign (who) never did NOTHING anyway and don't mind burning those of us that did" " an arrogant group of self-appointed shits who are doing the Establishment's dirty work for them" "a bunch of soppy twats on fixed wheeled bikes in London" "either too stupid or too self-obsessed to know what genuine activism even is" "arrogant media whores"
and warned that:
" If any of you ever dare show your faces away from the 'nice' cops and journos cameras you rhould expect what antifascists used to call a frank exchange of views. Believe it!"
you people seriously expect loyalty?
And the radical political explanation for it all?
"Several good friends of mine had to practically go into hiding because of a media shitstorm these people created, a shitstorm which only benefitted them and their friend Mark Kennedy." and " if the cops start wriggling it'll be US get held up as examples of dangeros 'terrorists' and get thrown to the wolves"
All all the above seems to be premised on the idea that if there is a public inquiry the cops will use information, *that they already have*, to get themselves off the hook.
If the cops have info they will use when they want, and the backlash on this thread isn't rational or acceptable.
If there is a point to be made, it needs to made in a somewhat less unpleasant and irrational manner. Its no wonder that there are people who suspect that there is trolling going on.
Try putting forward some persuasive arguments rather than throwing threats and insults about and people might be able to make sense of what is being said.
GH
"The issue of out-of-control undercover policing"
23.02.2011 19:20
"The police know that many of their actions are unjustifiable and in several cases could well be illegal"
So some actions are justifiable and ok?
You arseholes, fuck off back to your other reality....
Anarchist
"working with independent production companies"
23.02.2011 19:24
My 1st post
stop and think
23.02.2011 20:49
unnecessary
Duh..
23.02.2011 21:13
"All all the above seems to be premised on the idea that if there is a public inquiry the cops will use information, *that they already have*, to get themselves off the hook."
EXACTLY they without a doubt have enough intelligence to reasonably justify the operation to a judge, which means you lot will look like a right bunch of c***s. Just because YOU didn't do anything it doesn't mean they don't have anything worthwhile.
Rudeboy
To GH and everyone else...
23.02.2011 21:19
I think this thread has run it's course to be honest and is degenerating into petty name callling. I've said all I have to say above. I hope this can continue as a face to face discussion somewhere more usefully soon.
HG
problem with this campaign
24.02.2011 17:46
"Campaigning for an end to political policing"
...the idea that there is such a thing as non-political policing. All policing is political.
We may get a few short-term gains; the police may back off slightly. But we will lose in the long-term by promoting the myth that policing is a public service when it actually exists primarily for social control.
We will never get any fundamental change without massive social uprisings, and those uprisings will never happen until people realise that the police are there to control us and block social change. Check out Greece or Egypt. Both are societies where people can clearly recognise the inherently political role of the police, which is a first step to fighting back.
So this campaign sets us back by making that awareness-raising task harder.
Combine that with a few media egos, and you can see why people are angry.
-
Secure email needs to use PGP
24.02.2011 21:16
Email is never secure and confidential - it travels in plain text through too many places for that. A government can fairly easily tap anyone's email. You really need to publish a PGP key so people can send you encrypted emails. It will still be clear who the message is from, but at least they won't be able to read it.
Assuming the people reading it at the other end aren't infiltrated, of course!
anon
The Final Nail in my coffin
27.02.2011 11:18
I thought that by getting out on the streets and blocking cars/ diggers/ corporates I would be helping to build a new world.But over the last 10 years I have seen many fellow active people give up, blaming it on the culture of the angry brigade. To many of us, some activist groups can now be classed as fundamentalists which is not appealing.
The No Police Spies campaign may not be the best thing to do but I haven't heard any other real proposals within this 'discussion', apart from telling the liberals to fuck off with their Guardians under their arms.
I am out of here