Wiki-No-Leaks - UK Indymedia

Er

16.01.2011 11:24

Not sure it says that at all. It says the details are being handed over to WikiLeaks. Presumably they will check the authenticity of them and arrange for them to be released...So we will have to wait and see.

Krop

Quote

16.01.2011 11:54

'The names on the CDs will not be made public, just as a much shorter list of 15 clients that Elmer handed to WikiLeaks in 2008 has remained hitherto undisclosed by the organisation headed by Julian Assange, currently on bail over alleged sex offences in Sweden, and under investigation in the US for the dissemination of thousands of state department documents.'

still waiting!

Munki Lodjik

Drawing my own conclusion

16.01.2011 14:33

If Elmer is passing the documents and they aren't for release then it is likely he is doing this as 'insurance' to prevent a mistrial and presumably if he is sent down then these documents go out.

This would be similar to how Wikileaks has it's own insurance file of documents that haven't been released. You may disagree with this tactic but you should still be able to understand the reasoning behind it. If Wikileaks shot all their bullets at once then they would have no defence against being wiped off the face of the earth. Instead they are prioritising what they consider the most important in the public interest, such as the war videos and the US diplomatic cables. The powers that be could have squashed Wikileaks like a bug, and the reason they haven't isn't respect for due processand public opinion, or even qualms about assassination, it is fear of what 'nuclear option' is currently held in reserve.

Take the Bank of America hard-drive for example, Assange let everyone know he has it, and if he'd released it it would have damaged the BoA significantly and they would have fired a few 'bad apples' and recovered, but as it stands it is a wound that they cannot heal, their shares and reputation suffer. An unspoken allegation cannot be refuted.

I presume you drew the conclusion that this is proof that Wikileaks is protecting the powerful or selling the info to other commercial interests, but as an anti-war protester I am glad that the information released so far has been prioritised. All this will be part of the historical record one day anyway, but if Wikileaks is closed then that day will have arrived.

Danny

another quote

16.01.2011 15:41

'Elmer says he is releasing the information "in order to educate society".'

Also the fact they have not released the BoA details does not sit well with me. At this moment in time I can't help thinking that Wikileaks is no more than a feelgood operation for the masses, recruiting unknowing whistleblowers and suppressing anything of real importance.

Munki Lodjik

This is weird

16.01.2011 16:55

The whole point of wikileaks is anonymous sharing of information with the world via the site's technology. If he's not anonymous at all, then why bother going through wikileaks? I mean, what's the point? Does he want the information out there or not?

Sean

nobbled

16.01.2011 17:20

I think Wikileaks are genuine as far as it goes, but I'm pretty sure they won't release the bank of america papers - they're probably being nobbled right now.

After all, a few "mistakes were made" moments are one thing, politicians come and go, but NOBODY messes with the rich and their precious "financial system".

anonymous

The truth

16.01.2011 19:39

The Frontline Club which provides accommodation and logistics to Assange since he is in the UK is deeply connected with George Soros' Open Society Foundation.

Vaughan Smith who runs the Frontline Club and offers accomodation to Assange since he is on bail writes for NATO and provides the BBC and Channel 4 with typical embeded propaganda movie on the afghanistan war.

Assange's law firm, Finers, Stephens, Innocent is a top City law form which specializes in tax avoidance advisory services (exploitation of loopholes allowing billionaires and corporations to avoid paying their normally due taxes through the use of funds, trusts and domiciles in Liechtenstein and Monaco as advertised on their website).

All this stinks big time guys...

George Soros and the billionaires

quotes

16.01.2011 23:24

OK, point taken on the quote. However, I'm not of the Alex Jones camp, and do believe that these leaks are genuine, and not in the interests of the 'global elite'. I'm still willing to wait and see. Wikileaks is a small operation, and doesn't have much in the way of resources to call upon. I do hope, however, that they can start releasing more of the leaks they've received so far - because this current trickle really is too slow.

Krop

@Krop

17.01.2011 00:33

I think your first instincts were right. I think the 'George Soros and the billionaires' post is extremely dubious. If you are an IMCista or smart enough then you should be able to see my first activist post here was smeared via Medialens, as me being an agent of Soros. I hadn't even heard of him then, but I slagged off there the dangerous political cult of Lyndon Larouche, who for some reason hate Soros. I have no love of Soros but I have learned a contempt of Larouche. Read the IM archives and you will see plenty of Larouchies posting here recruiting before I ever posted here. It is a mirror cult of the Moonies aimed at left wing activists. It is a CIA front, at best, dredged up to muddy issues. That doesn't mean the billionaire Soros is any better than Larouche, just that you really don't want involved either way without a bit of research and a whole lot of self-protection. These maddo's are really tooled up technologically, they really do kill people with impunity (Jeremiah Duggan) and warped many lives I later investigated. Think of them as CIA as they really do have undercovers there and elsewhere. I'm not asking you to trust me, just be aware of them and their history.

It is a seriously dangerous distraction. Best to avoid online conversation that crosses into this territory. Do some research of your own discretely. It seems to be a lessening threat, but it's obviously not evaporated totally yet.

Umm, death to George Soros and all the other american elite such as Larouche! Yay! Go you yanker freedom fighters!

Danny

About the dubious post

17.01.2011 01:54

What I posted about are merely facts about Assange's dodgy connections. You just have to google a bit to see on their own websites that it's all true.

I don't get your dismissive little paranoid tirade danny dude...

dubious poster

@Munki Lodjik

17.01.2011 02:22

"Also the fact they have not released the BoA details does not sit well with me. At this moment in time I can't help thinking that Wikileaks is no more than a feelgood operation for the masses, recruiting unknowing whistle-blowers and suppressing anything of real importance."

Do you get my point though? BoA are still suffering under the threat of that release, arguably suffering more under the threat than the actual release would have caused them. For me, the lack of that release doesn't harm the issues I care most for, but it does provide 'insurance' for the group that is currently helping the causes I care most for. So it is arguable I admit but I hope you see the anti-war point of view in this. I'm sure I don't need to remind you of the power and influence of the Iraq video.

I learned a lot of respect for Cryptome way before Wikileaks appeared, and I don't like Young's criticism of Wikileaks because I feel both their leaks are both on the same side even if their named administrators are divided for the moment. I won't even criticise you for criticising Wkileaks at this time, but I hope you bear in mind that all the mainstream media is demeaning Wikileaks just now, none of them are even mentioning Cryptome, so I think you should consider delaying your criticism if only for that reason. It's not Wikileaks vs Cryptome, in the mainstream it is Wikileaks vs the Empire. I ask you to politely to hold your fire until the smoke clears. Give it a few months, things are changing quickly.

Danny

Guardian misreporting of Wikileaks

17.01.2011 14:14

The Independent just published the PA story making clear those documents will be verified and published.

Danny
Homepage: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/wikileaks-to-disclose-tax-dodge-files-2186589.html

danny updates

17.01.2011 20:00

excellent, just read it

hope he keeps to his word, i just can't wait for this little lot.
I don't know of Cryptome so i will be looking into this, thx for that.

Is it too soon to be constructing those gallows i wonder? Maybe just a schematic or two for the moment!

Munki Lodjik

Cryptome

17.01.2011 20:56

Cryptome is an excellent website. It's all we had before Wikileaks. It released stuff you couldn't read elsewhere, like the list of leaked British Military Intelligence agents banned by a D Notice in the UK.

It's probably harder to sift through than Wikileaks though, so it takes some getting used to. It's run openly by John Young in New York, and maybe one or two others at most, and he didn't generally solicit publicity or recruit.

The trouble is Young was approached by Wikileaks to act as a public front when they started, and they had a falling out over methods and , well, philosophy I guess. Young is now widely quoted as a critic of Wikileaks which I personally think is a great shame, but as an avid reader of both sites, who has seen them come under similar attacks at the same time, I have no reason to pick sides. They are very different beasts who both operate in the same environment and I have no reason to dislike any of their work.

Do you know protest music at all? What the dispute reminds me of is when the Riot Folk slagged David Rovics for being too populist and hypocritical. 'Holier than thou' stuff that is maybe inevitable but ignores the fact that most people who love one side love both sides.

Danny

changing tides

17.01.2011 23:54

I've just managed to download the torrent of Elmer's statement from 2008 and it certainly does mention names, quite what the Ob was trying to say I'm not so sure. Very interesting reading if anyone so cares. It can be found on the wikileaks mirror sites in the archives section.

I am still waiting to get rest of detailed documents downloaded though so cant comment further at this time.

Munki Lodjik

Well done ML

18.01.2011 15:08

Please keep us informed what you find when the new documents are finally released. Being willing to sift through and double-check boring documents that you know will only reveal what we already suspect, that is true journalism, and since you aren't getting paid in money then you have earned praise / 'egoboo'. I'm sure I'm not alone in not having even downloaded the original Baer documents, but it pleases me greatly that someone has volunteered for this unrewarding yet critical investigation. If you are able to stick with it then not only could you get paid (7p a word) by the few remaining independent press, but you should maybe consider working directly with Wikileaks.

Danny

@ML

18.01.2011 17:57

One parting gift for your enthusiam:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/democrakey/

The Tor browser lets you post here safely in future, though choose a new name first and don't link to your old posts.

The TruCrypt encrypts your hard-drives and gives you plausible deniablity in court on it's contents - if you read that section of the manual and implement it properly.

Look for believable updates or alternatives since this download is a bit dated now. Learn the logical principles of personal security and regard trust as an insult. Don't trust anyone, not IM & not anyone, and please do challenge everyone all the time. Faith may get you into Heaven but doubt will keep you out of Hell. Good luck!

Danny

topdan

18.01.2011 23:19

cheers for that, speak in another life, go easy.

somebodyelse