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Post Flash Fallout, Lessons and Activist security

IP address supplied | 12.01.2011 20:00 | Analysis | Indymedia | Repression | Sheffield

Everyones being talking about Mark since Oct but what have people learned or changed? We always knew that the state was interested in our activities and that they send people to our meetings and monitor our email etc. However it seemed unlikely that the cops would take us seriously enough to go to such extreme lengths to embed a cop in our circles so deep or for such a long time. Sure, the cops would have their snitches among us, those who dedication to the cause could not compete to their own dedication to drink, drugs, parties and easy cash. Of course we also knew that the corporations we target would also be spying on us and that there were companies who specialised in infiltrating our groups and selling info to whoever would pay. When the news about Mark broke, the surprise wasn't that we had been infiltrated, it was the it was a cop and not simply a private detective or a friend turned informer.

Why would the cops send their asset on expensive overseas trips rather than concentrate on activists in the UK? What did they hope to gain from sending Mark to Iceland or Italy etc? These were just some of the questions we all asked ourselves. As more information has emerged we've learned about Marks connection to Global One who sold info to the likes of Eon. Now the overseas trips make sense, Global Ones corporate paymasters are multinational and while the state might have though Mark was their asset, actually he was playing a wider game selling info directly to our targets. Perhaps his bosses in the force knew this, after all, they are the ones who set up companies like Global One - no doubt it pays significantly better than the state!

So, what should we have learned from all this? What if anything should we change or do differently?

Activist security it shit! I'm always amazed how shit it is while at the same time there is so much paranoid rhetoric. People make such a big deal about the presence of mobile phones (even in public meetings that any cop or Daily Mail reporter could attend), whispering to avoid being overheard by phones in pockets should a comment be too brief to go to the effort of pulling batteries, but they are happy boast about their latest activities to people who really don't need to know. All too often people expose their circles of associates through shoddy email etiquette or the use of social networking sites, or engage in gossip which might supply leverage to our enemies.

I'm not going to try to list things we could do better, there are already resources out there to read and learn from (see the Activist security project for example). However I think we should all do a bit of honest soul searching and think about what we are personally lapse about. For example, I admit it, I don't use TOR to access and post to indymedia, even when posting action reports. I know that is shoddy and dangerous behavior, I should know better. How about you?

IP address supplied

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steady on!

12.01.2011 20:21

well I never someone actually talking fucking sense re: flash rather working as an unpaid researcher for the mail. nice one.

whoa,


jobs for the boys in blue

12.01.2011 20:39

Policemen just like everybody else need to earn a living. They are just looking for imaginary "threats" to their masters, to justify their existence and continued expansion. There's nowt else to it.
And we are merely facilitating the states hastened demise through obesity. They know it, but they just cant resist feeding at the trough. Snouts out boys, get a proper job;)

anarchist


Justice through deterence

12.01.2011 21:41

"Why would the cops send their asset on expensive overseas trips rather than concentrate on activists in the UK? What did they hope to gain from sending Mark to Iceland or Italy etc?"

There are repeated clear cross-overs from state to corporate infiltrators, but ignoring that, there is clear cross-overs from one state snitch to another. The German cabinet is obviously complicit in Kennedy's activities in Germany, from their covering up of inconvenient questions in the past months. They probably paid for his travels, so you can't trust any European or Echelon state national here simply due to their nationality.

"So, what should we have learned from all this? What if anything should we change or do differently?"

I've seen numerous suggestions from old-timers and actual victims of this guy, and I disagree with 90% of their 'obvious' suggestions. Real activists sometimes do have money, sometimes do travel, and sometimes do seem 'too good to be real'. Watch what people ask for no apparent reason. Check their families out unexpectedly, like normal people do unintentionally. Follow basic principles like don't ask, don't tell and be suspicious when others don't. On a case by case basis, not a checklist that agents can follow.

"Activist security it shit! I'm always amazed how shit it is while at the same time there is so much paranoid rhetoric"

It fucking is, for the most part. I'm surprised there is anyone outside of prison sometimes. I could quote examples that would make you laugh and cringe.

Something you haven't said though, that I will, is that is plenty of reward for infiltrators and no effective deterrent as yet. They get hundreds of thousands of pounds, free rape, foreign travel, but when they get caught what do we do to them? We act hurt and bad-mouth them. We won't deter their awful misdeeds until we start punishing them severely for the injustices they have perpetuated.

I don't think infiltrators should be exposed, they should be disposed.

IP address withheld


indymedia is safe

12.01.2011 21:43

You don't need to worry about hiding behind proxies when posting here, just when using corporate sites like wordpress.com, facebook, twitter etc. Indymedia connections are safe. Publishing is always made via SSL secure encrypted connections and the server never logs IP addresses so even a court order gets the cops nothing. Of course using TOR is good practice anyway.

IMCista


Fail! Go directly to jail

12.01.2011 23:24

"Activist security it shit!...I don't use TOR to access and post to indymedia, even when posting action reports. I know that is shoddy and dangerous behavior, I should know better." - IP address supplied

"indymedia is safe You don't need to worry about hiding behind proxies when posting here" - IMCista

Since Indymedia UK is currently attracting more than usual numbers of tabloid interest I am going to criticise the above posts anonymously and without reference to personal experience. Hide this post though and I will repost it without the self-censorship on MSM.

Indymedia is not safe. No website can be safe. Saying this site is safe is not just dishonest, it is an insult to everyone's intelligence. If you post anything illegal here then you MUST post it anonymously. That used to be standard IM advice here from this point on:  http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2009/02/422330.html so I am surprised any IMCista would claim otherwise. Tor or whatever alternative anonymiser is essential.

I'll explain in general terms that shouldn't be seen as paranoia and shouldn't be dismissed lightly. Any webserver requires a TCP/IP address to make a connection. Most webservers log those details, this collective says they have switched that logging off, kudos to them for that (not all collectives do permit this for some unfathomable reason). However, any techie who has access to the server, whether from within the collective or externally, still can see the connections being made and can record your IP address on a bit of paper. In a way, any webadmin has to to defend the server from malicious attack so it's not necessarily sinister. If you don't take every reasonable precaution to anonymise then you shouldn't be posting about other activists crap security when your own is obviously crap, this is basic stuff. And for an IMCista to dismiss this is just awful.
You shouldn't just be using Tor for illegal posts, it should be standard operating procedure for all posts on all sites that permit anonymous posting - and you should be wary of sites that don't permit it. IM UK do permit it so use it. That's not paranoia, that is best advice, and the IMCistas used to say that themselves, I don't know why the standards have slipped here, or rather I don't want to speculate.

Tor is not bullet-proof in itself, you have to use it properly and learn it's limitations, and you have to be cautious which Tor software you use as some are fake malware. Learn the basics about computing and you'll see there is a network of trust, that open software is more trustable so any anonymiser from SourceForge is more trustable - once you read the fucking manual!

Try this one, it's a suite that has other sweet apps bundled-  http://sourceforge.net/projects/democrakey/

Danny


Don't be naive

12.01.2011 23:36

No indymedia site is safe and IMC UK is no exception. Site users can trust IMC UK only so far as they can trust the people who admin the site and server. If Mark Stone teaches us anything it's that we can't assume we can trust even those we have worked with personally for years.

The cops don't need to get court orders or seize servers to get hold of IP addresses from IMC UK, they just need somebody on the inside and that wouldn't be hard to do, a lot easier in fact than the Kennedy deep infiltration. Indymedia admins are pretty faceless and not necessarily particularly active or known by the diverse range of activists who use the site. There are dozens of people who have admin access through the various local collectives that make up the network and they all have access to IP logging features built into the content management system used by the site. It is trivial for anyone of them to be saving that data and sending it on to others.

While indymedia may be dedicated in principle to protecting users identity, nobody should trust Indymedia any more than any other site in protecting their identity. Everyone should use TOR, or other means, to avoid being identified by IP addresses and other information about their computer access!

UserX


the state is your enemy

12.01.2011 23:40

OP
You may have been at pointless meetings (Flash often wasn't he was always more interested in the action side of action)

I think you will find that Flash was involved in the political disruption of serious anarchist activity, Like many attempts on large parts of the carbon infrastructure, the physical confrontation of the fascists or assaults on Berlin's city centre.

Most of his stuff abroad as far as we know was about the links between UK revolutionary and our comrades abroad. I can completely understand why the state would want one of their assets in this .
I'm not amazed in the slightest that the secret state has a number of operatives disrupting our movements all I'm annoyed about is that he was him, I used to think he was a decent bloke.

As well as reviewing security you could also start viewing our own movement as a credible threat Npoiu certainly do.

@rchie


Basic lesson number one

12.01.2011 23:51

The most basic lesson people should have taken on board as a result of my cover being blown is don't believe somebody is necessarily who they say they are. That is even more important when considering the credibility of articles and comments posted online. Just because somebody posts as IMCista does not mean they really are, any one can post as anything they like!

Information from sites which allow and encourage anonymous posts must always be taken with a pinch of salt. Indymedia is full of comments posted maliciously by people hiding their true intentions and the threads about the infiltration story are no exception. It is painfully obvious that activists are being wound-up and provoked by people who are not really activists at all.

Don't fall for the bait, all that nonsense about withholding info/photos etc, all the criticism of the way things have been handled, it's standard procedure for disinformation trolls who have been operating on IMC UK on a daily basis for at least seven years.

Mark Kennedy


More constructive

13.01.2011 10:12

At least this has that potential.

The most telling comment above is that Flash Mark often wasn't at important meetings. By and large, he just did the action. He was often absent even from very action-oriented meetings when everyone was very cautious about security. Other times he'd be seen gossiping on the fringes rather than paying attention to what was going on. In many of those cases he'd already been approached to do X, Y or Z and if the general idea was agreed to go ahead, that's what he did.

There is a lot more I was going to say about how we can protect ourselves better and be more certain who is genuinely trustworthy without turning into an inquisition or operating like Trots, but I have just deleted it. Another time. Lets not make this a handbook on advanced infiltration techniques, eh?

Two reasons to be cheerful:

1. There have been at least two others who've been suspected, the suspicion has reached them or has been openly stated and then it's been confirmed by their prompt and total disappearance. Flash Mark was a better (i.e. worse) act than these people, who were never really trusted. We're not entirely defenceless or utterly stupid and this should encourage us to improve security further. I'm not saying there isn't or can't be another Flash -or several- but it's not as easy to achieve as some people think and it's our job to make it even harder.

2. This whole farce is a big kick in the goolies for NETCU. Taken together with the cuts, this lavish job creation scheme for bent coppers may now be doomed. Whether or not Flash Mark really "went native" as suggested by some, it's clear they lost control of him and of large slabs of police wonga in the process.

Two things would be worth investigating further;

1. Mark said, when confronted, that he hadn't voluntarily resigned, but had been "asked to resign" (this is usually police-speak for sacked when, for their own scummy reasons, they don't want to charge an egregiously corrupt rozzer with criminal offences). It's obviously daft to believe it just because Flash said it, but if it's a lie it's hard to see a reason for it, except possibly...

2. What actual evidence is there, if any, of Mark working for any of the powerful non-state or quasi-state interests we're up against? No, don't post it here if you have any, but worth thinking about and discussing elsewhere. Or is it just supposition as an alternative to the "went native" theory? We could be failing to give ourselves credit for -albeit unwittingly- having "turned" a bastard. I'm not saying that's the case (before anyone jumps in), but it's also worth considering.


Stroppyoldgit


OK

13.01.2011 11:40

Just seen the Guardian / Daily Mail stuff on Flash's alleged private sector ventures. It may invalidate some of what I said above and needs thinking about.

I say only "may" though. If they really think they've lost him, it could also be bullshit set up to make sure we never trust him again and HE won't be spilling any beans to US. We wouldn't ever trust him again anyway, I'm sure, but just try thinking with their deranged perceptions. It's easy to set up companies and feed the media. Journos are nearly all lazy bastards.

Stroppyoldgit


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This posting has been hidden because it breaches the Indymedia UK (IMC UK) Editorial Guidelines.

IMC UK is an interactive site offering inclusive participation. All postings to the open publishing newswire are the responsibility of the individual authors and not of IMC UK. Although IMC UK volunteers attempt to ensure accuracy of the newswire, they take no responsibility legal or otherwise for the contents of the open publishing site. Mention of external web sites or services is for information purposes only and constitutes neither an endorsement nor a recommendation.

The View from the Grassy Knoll

13.01.2011 13:57

In recent days the media have been fixated with the tale of Mark ‘Flash’ Stone (real name Mark Kennedy), the undercover cop who for seven years infiltrated the environmental movement, and who supposedly ended up supporting the movement he was helping to destroy. This Hollywoodesque portrait of Kennedy as some downmarket Donnie Brascoe has appealed to lazy hacks out for a juicy story and denied contact with everyone involved except for a few low-rent media whores and outright traitors. Yet the truth is very different.

The early part of the unmasking of ‘Mark Stone’ will be familiar to activists, or at least the bare bones of it will. He was infiltrated into the movement in 2003, moving to Nottingham, going to the Sumac Centre a few times, and then turning up at that year’s Earth First! Summer Gathering where he began to become known. Over the next seven years he became a main player in the UK environmental movement, going on numerous actions, attending conferences and gatherings, and generally making himself useful, primarily as a driver. He also infiltrated or attempted to infiltrate other movements, both here and abroad.

The sleeping policeman’s downfall came sometime last year when his long-term girlfriend within the movement found a passport in the name of Mark Kennedy, ‘Stone’s real name. The passport also contained the details of a child. Kennedy span an elaborate tale to account for the find, which his girlfriend appeared to accept. Eventually though she spoke to friends about it, and after an investigation traced a birth certificate for the child which gave his father’s occupation as “police officer” (as his paternal grandfather had been) a rather disparate bunch of friends, six in all, confronted their erstwhile comrade. The undercover cop had obviously been trained in how to act if his cover was blown, and after his excuses fell on deaf ears, he burst into tears, seeking the sympathy of those he had so thoroughly betrayed.

The group questioned Kennedy; primarily about themselves it seems, but also about another suspected undercover cop, formerly based in Leeds. Controversially, Kennedy confirmed that she was part of the same unit. How long the questioning went on we do not know because the fruits of it, if there are any, have not been shared with the movement. Kennedy was allowed to go on his way unharmed.

In fact, far from being harmed or intimidated, immediately following the encounter, Kennedy was still so clear-headed, that he telephoned another long-term partner, who the Group of Six had failed to warn, confessed his occupation, and drove some distance with the aim of seeing her. She is merely one of many women within the movement who Kennedy exploited and betrayed during his seven years undercover.

Within days of Kennedy’s ‘outing’, a short piece appeared on Indymedia making his true identity public. There was also a photo of him wearing a large hat which covered his forehead, hair, and ears. This was later supplemented by a second photo, though this seems to have been regarded by many Indymedia posters as little better than the first. Among the incredulity, shock, and disbelief in the 174 comments (plus many more that were ‘hidden’, or censored, by Indymedia moderators) which followed the post were numerous requests for more information and better photos, requests that were for the most part met by irritation by the cognoscenti and their allies.

While many of the close friends and comrades of Stone/Kennedy, outside of the Group of Six, were in fact offered very little forewarning, support, or protection, there was much talk, both on the net and at a well-attended Anarchist Bookfair meeting, about protecting “those closest to him” and about the need for “security” (a bit like closing the barn door after the pig has already bolted). It appears to have been understood by many however, that further information about Kennedy would be made publically available, not least to ensure that his career as an undercover cop really was well and truly over. If assurances were made, as has been claimed, those assurances were broken, no more information has been provided to the movement by the Group of Six, and information posted to Indymedia by others has been subject to censorship at their direction.

Kennedy had lived at several addresses in Nottingham (and obviously elsewhere as a cop), but at the time of his fall from grace he was living on a canal barge he had bought at the beginning of 2010. The boat, called Tamarisk (of which there are several registered narrow boats), was moored close to Nottingham, and in lieu of Kennedy himself, was an obvious target for those he had betrayed. Members of the Group of Six, or others very close to them, apparently assured other activists that the boat would be dealt with. Instead however, it was allowed to simply sail away, much like Kennedy himself. The name of the boat was only exposed as frustrated activists became more and more angry at the lack of any further information about Kennedy and one of them posted it to a heated Indymedia thread, in which the Group of Six were accused of ‘protecting’ Kennedy. That post was ‘hidden’ following a request on the Indymedia moderation list (received on 10th January 2011) from “some of the people directly involved” for any reference to Kennedy’s canal boat, even its very existence, to be expunged from Indymedia. Now why would they want to stop people finding out about Kennedy’s boat?

The only thing surprising about the recent explosion of coverage of the Stone/Kennedy affair is that it took so long to happen. The story first appeared in The Sunday Times on the 19th of December 2010, with a particularly nauseating political slant, and an even more nauseating photo of the (thankfully disbanded) Clown Army. The piece appeared to be largely culled from Indymedia, and was reasonably sympathetic to both Kennedy and to the wet-end of the environmental movement who had clearly planted the story. As with the avalanche of coverage which would come a few weeks later, one of the common themes was the utter worthlessness of the UK environmental movement in terms of infiltration, a slant on the story that appears to have come from the environmentalists themselves and that they would later shamelessly parrot endlessly for the bourgeois media. The cops it seems should have been focussing their resources on less ‘fluffy’ activists than these “hippies and tree-huggers”.

It was the second Ratcliffe-On-Soar trial, which led to the real media frenzy. The story was that a group of protestors had planned to invade and occupy a power station at Ratcliffe, and Kennedy had been a key-player, and arguably an agent provocateur, in the operation. Naturally the cops were tipped off, and swooped arresting 114 activists, and Kennedy, while they were discussing the action at a meeting in Nottingham. Charges were eventually dropped against most of those arrested, including Kennedy of course, with 26 going on to face trial. Despite their knowledge of Kennedy’s involvement, the first group of 20 chose to fight the case on the basis of climate change and an appeal to the liberal sensibilities of the jury, a principled stand which resulted in them all being convicted. Through their lawyer, the remaining six challenged the prosecution’s lack of disclosure regarding Kennedy, and were discharged before their trial could even begin.

Despite the media lie that would dominate coverage for days to come, the trial was NOT halted because Kennedy had offered to give evidence for the defence.
What had actually happened was that one of the 6 defendants, Dr Simon Lewis, an inveterate careerist and wealthy academic, but someone with a background in Reclaim The Streets, Earth First!, Dissent, and the Climate Camp (as well as a friend of Special Branch tout and Clown Army founder John Jordan), was so frightened of having his lucrative career damaged by an actual conviction that he contacted the cop, Kennedy, and appealed for his help, insisting that he never intended to go on any action in the first place (which to anyone who knows Lewis is entirely believable). In taped phone conversations which were later acquired by the BBC, Kennedy whines self-pityingly about how much he hates himself, before mumbling about possibly helping. This is as far as any help went. Kennedy’s assistance was of course not required anyway, it was his activities and the fact that they had not been disclosed that was important, not any assistance he might give to a grovelling sell-out like Lewis, someone who is happy to talk to cops to save his own skin.

The false story that the media seized on was that Kennedy had “gone native” and that the trial had collapsed because of his offer of help. It was a lie they were able to run with because of the assistance of traitors who have collaborated with the press, often they have been people who barely knew Kennedy personally. Either way, they have queued up to do the media’s bidding, with Simon Lewis’s posh girlfriend Sophie Stevens, an ‘activist’ with all the pedigree of a Hush Puppy, even appearing on Newsnight. While the media frenzy has been useful in terms of Steven’s CV, and the egos (and perhaps pockets) of the other media whores, the truth about Kennedy “going native” is that it has since transpired he is now working for a private security company.

Yet, despite its nauseating slants and untruths, many activists will have learned more from reading between the lines of the bourgeois media than they ever have from the supposed comrades who conducted the investigation into Kennedy and who have been steadfast in their refusal to disclose further photographs of him or any further information, including his whereabouts. While they may not have anything more to say to the movement, at least one of their number certainly had plenty to say to The Guardian.

Despite being an undercover cop, Kennedy’s vanity meant that he was always posing for photographs, there must be hundreds in existence, yet the Group of Six and their associates have repeatedly claimed they had none. Again, it’s funny how they were available to The Guardian.

Having been allowed to escape, Kennedy now supposedly lives abroad at a location known to the Group of Six, but which they have adamantly refused to disclose on the basis that Kennedy has a wife and teenage son who must be protected. This position is not only a dereliction of duty and an abuse of both power and of trust, but it is a vicious smear against the movement who they are implying are no better than TV gangsters. Such reactionary prejudice has at its basis the innate middle-class fear of ‘the other’, of the uncontrollable ‘mob’ who (in this case) cannot be trusted to deal responsibly and intelligently with information their betters hold safely in keeping. In this they have sided with a cop and with the state.

In the UK Mark Kennedy may have primarily engaged in political activity with ineffectual liberals, and indeed spent most of his time partying in the sleazy semi-retired eco-activist scene inhabited by those now protecting him, but he travelled widely, visiting 22 countries according to The Guardian, and in most of those countries he comported himself differently and mixed with a more militant class of activist. Some of those comrades certainly have more to lose than a few months on a probation order, yet they have been hung out to dry by a tiny clique of party-heads and one-time eco warriors in Nottingham. At the very least they deserve to know that Mark Kennedy is not living on the next street to them.

German activists recently uncovered their own undercover cop, it took them seven months rather than seven years, and the subsequent international press release contained as much information as they were able to gather, as well as excellent photographs. Kennedy spent long periods infiltrating German activist groups, and they are both shocked and astonished by the way things have been handled here. With questions being asked in the German parliament, they may eventually get more answers from the authorities than from their UK comrades.

Despite heavy censorship on Indymedia frustration among some activists is beginning to turn to anger, and the Group of Six have been accused of an unspoken agreement with Kennedy – That he would protect them as best he could, and that in return they would let him walk away, leave his boat alone, not post their archive of photographs and personal information to the net, and not disclose his whereabouts or those of his family. With every day such a theory becomes more compelling.

There is no doubt that Kennedy’s former close friends must be extremely distressed and traumatised by the events of the past six months, but those in the Group of Six have to realise that Kennedy’s activities have implications way beyond themselves, and that they need to behave with a sense of responsibility to the wider movement. Divesting themselves may also help take them towards closure in the affair, instead of prolonging it (by intervening on Indymedia for example). They did a good job in tracing Kennedy’s real identity, but it might then have been better to hand the matter over to other activists who were less emotionally involved. That they did not, and let Kennedy walk away, is unfortunately symptomatic of the middle-class ‘activist’, they never imagine that anyone might be better qualified than themselves. As for Kennedy, he should certainly not have got off so lightly.

Another preoccupation both of the press and of some activists has been how bad poor old Mark Kennedy (the cop who lied to those around him for seven years and betrayed his closest friends and comrades) must be feeling now. We neither care nor are interested. Kennedy supposedly spent his working days hanging from a rope, and we can only hope that one day justice finds him at the end of one.

The Boys on the Grassy Knoll


To Grassy Knoll...

13.01.2011 19:21

Grassy Knoll, you have mixed a load of half truths and speculation and come to some seriously wrong and destructive conclusions. Amongst many errors, you are saying that the people that exposed him know where he is now. This is a very serious and wrong accusation, and with no evidence you are basically calling them cop assets.

It's a very serious accusation, and one that you should retract now unless you have proof, which you won't cos it's not true.

Comradely? Or Destructive?


Hidden Comment

This posting has been hidden because it breaches the Indymedia UK (IMC UK) Editorial Guidelines.

IMC UK is an interactive site offering inclusive participation. All postings to the open publishing newswire are the responsibility of the individual authors and not of IMC UK. Although IMC UK volunteers attempt to ensure accuracy of the newswire, they take no responsibility legal or otherwise for the contents of the open publishing site. Mention of external web sites or services is for information purposes only and constitutes neither an endorsement nor a recommendation.

grassy knoll makes some fair points

13.01.2011 20:40

If people have been managing to make / keep in contact with him, as they obviously have from the newsnight piece and Mike Schwarz's statement, its not really a stretch to suggest there are people in our movement who have a bit of a clue where he is.

The grassy knoll piece is a considered and thoughtfully written comment that shouldn't be censored on indymedia - even if it does make uncomfortable viewing for some, or because not everyone agrees with what it says.

wasafaircommentfromgrassyknoll


Hang on

13.01.2011 20:50

Wasn't it said numerous times on comments on the earlier MS threads, and by people very close to the 6, that they wouldn't disclose MS's whereabouts to protect his family?

IM reader


The best of the rest

13.01.2011 21:55

I read the grassy knoll article when it was briefly on the newswire earlier - before it was swiftly removed. IMO there have only been 3 good posts on this subject and this is easily the best. As the piece says why are 6 people in Notts (at least 1 of which is talking to the press) being allowed so much power when this affects hundreds. We have to face up to what has happened and putting our heads in the sand while a minority squeal to the press isn't helping.

George


NO THAT WAS NEVER SAID!

13.01.2011 21:56

Nobody knows where he is (apart from the vague 'in the USA' that the media have said), and the only info not being made public is his childrens details, for what I think are the right reasons!

Nonny Mouse


So wrong...

13.01.2011 22:03

Only 5 people confronted him. If you can't even get that basic fact right, fuck off with the rest of your lies. None of those people have any more info about were Mark is than anyone else. And you'd had months to bring this up and haven't, even personally with the people that exposed him.

FFS!


Stone's whereabouts

13.01.2011 22:23

Probably smoking a fat spliff on a warm beach NOW. But at the time he fucked off people in Notts knew precisely where his other life was. They chose to keep that secret just as they did the location of the boat. This is not all just about a few ageing mostly retired eco-activists in Notts.

Korky Kat


kennedy has the entire state to protect him and his family

13.01.2011 22:36

Why does he need you lot to help him out? Unless you are just sticking to your side of the bargain. The movement is not full of child killers btw. You dont trust your comrades but you trusted newsnight.

pissed off


Too many self-pitying cry-babys...

13.01.2011 22:53

...not enough revolutionaries. The State must send cops into our movement for a nice safe holiday. Seven years shagging about, boozing in the Sumac, getting off your head. and if it comes on top don't worry you can go on your way without so much as a slap. 'Money problems'? I don't believe that for a minute, he must be minted. Probably get an invite to S.Lewises next dinner party.

BBC


Provocateur alert

14.01.2011 00:07

I have been watching the comments about the infiltrator on indymedia UK for a while now.
A pattern is clearly visible. At first a lot of disrupting posts appeared, quite chaotic, like a gang's response to a security breach.

Then it was relatively quiet.

Now a wave of the same posts of allegations and attacks against the 5 or 6 people who confronted the spy. Followed by a wave of posts displaying support to the attack.

They regrouped, had a meeting and came up with a strategy.

I spot an organized attack against the brave 5 or 6.

I hope they realize that no activist will feel anything else but compassion and support.
I hope that we'll all see the attacks for what they are: a damage limitation exercise for the failed corporate mission and a attention diverting and disrupting exercise by the corporate 'agents provocateurs'

Unity is strength!

Spotted


speculation is weakness

14.01.2011 00:43

I've seen the same posts, and am not involved in either group, and both are as bad as the other. I could equally point out you spell like an American. You must be CIA then?!

None of this is conclusive, few of the lessons I've seen listed are valid, this whole shit storm is 99% speculation dressed up as fact. We all knew there were infiltrators, and the one thing we know for certain after this exposure is we weren't being careful enough in our trust-relationships and accuse others of 'paranoia' so readily.

It is always worth challenging and being challenged, but after the fact then don't draw lessons you didn't see before. Stick to simple principles, provable facts, and always investigate yourself. We got lucky this time because the guy confessed, that rarely happens. The time to be paranoid about Mark has passed and too much breast-beating now is doing more damage than he ever did. Unity is not strength, strength is strength.

spotted dick


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