What shall we do if the cops start protesting?
@@ | 12.01.2011 11:10
I want to open up a debate, nice and early, about this issue which came out yesterday. It has long been known that the police force will face massive cuts as part of the austerity measures. Yesterday Paul McKeever, the Police Federation chairman, warned MPs that the cops could take to the street in protest over these measures.
Now I wasn't following things the last time this happened (3 years ago in central london over backdated pay), and if I'm honest I don't have a clue how the "activist community" responded. So that's some important feeding in to do.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/jan/11/police-street-protests-cuts-jobs
Now I wasn't following things the last time this happened (3 years ago in central london over backdated pay), and if I'm honest I don't have a clue how the "activist community" responded. So that's some important feeding in to do.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/jan/11/police-street-protests-cuts-jobs
[Please keep things respectful - I am sure there will be people on here who want to support the protesting coppers, and those who want to brick them. Sometimes the world is not black and white and I think what we need first and foremost is a respectful discussion - so we can get all the opinions out in the open and people can make their own informed decisions and action can be planned on these bases. No one's going to convince anyone by going apeshit on the internet]
=====================
My issue is this:
I don't want to do anything that will help bolster the police force. But from the sounds of things the cops have more than enough officers to mount a seriously impressive demo anyway. There are always reports that when cops police demos, actions etc they usually agree with the protesters' views in single-issue chunks, but disagree with their analysis of the state, and with any illegal actions on the day. I've witnessed this myself.
I always feel that cops are worthy of sympathy in that, while disempowering others, they also disempower themselves. They are powerful in some very scary ways, but in the most important way - personal empowerment to act upon one's believes - they are disempowered. I've never extended the cops sympathy for the simple reason that I care far more about other sections of society - the truly vulnerable sections - than I do the coppers who wield power and force horrendous situations onto others. But I feel the injustices they commit are social institutional injustices where the cops are just the cogs in a far more complex machine.
Now we see a lot of cops in a strange position - completely abandoned by the state they always defend. Willing to come out and protest. Far freer to act politically, given they are no longer restricted by their uniforms. I find it hard to justify sending away ex-coppers who want to get involved. So for that reason I find it hard to work out how to handle a police demonstration given this context.
But that's just my two cents - I really want to hear what everyone else thinks.
I'm also interested in how this situation would be handled by the state? Will they use "scab cops" to police the demo? Will they have to use the army? Private security? Or just trust the cops not to break the law?!?!
=====================
My issue is this:
I don't want to do anything that will help bolster the police force. But from the sounds of things the cops have more than enough officers to mount a seriously impressive demo anyway. There are always reports that when cops police demos, actions etc they usually agree with the protesters' views in single-issue chunks, but disagree with their analysis of the state, and with any illegal actions on the day. I've witnessed this myself.
I always feel that cops are worthy of sympathy in that, while disempowering others, they also disempower themselves. They are powerful in some very scary ways, but in the most important way - personal empowerment to act upon one's believes - they are disempowered. I've never extended the cops sympathy for the simple reason that I care far more about other sections of society - the truly vulnerable sections - than I do the coppers who wield power and force horrendous situations onto others. But I feel the injustices they commit are social institutional injustices where the cops are just the cogs in a far more complex machine.
Now we see a lot of cops in a strange position - completely abandoned by the state they always defend. Willing to come out and protest. Far freer to act politically, given they are no longer restricted by their uniforms. I find it hard to justify sending away ex-coppers who want to get involved. So for that reason I find it hard to work out how to handle a police demonstration given this context.
But that's just my two cents - I really want to hear what everyone else thinks.
I'm also interested in how this situation would be handled by the state? Will they use "scab cops" to police the demo? Will they have to use the army? Private security? Or just trust the cops not to break the law?!?!
@@
Comments
Hide the following 14 comments
Can't be supported
12.01.2011 12:17
“Expenditure on policing has increased by over £4.5 billion in real terms since
1997 – a real increase of 43 per cent".
"Britain’s police are the most expensive in the world. As a proportion of GDP, spending on policing in England and Wales is higher than every OECD country for which figures are available (except Scotland). For comparison, expenditure in England and Wales on the police was 0.9 per cent of GDP in the latest year available (2005) – 20 per cent higher than the US figure of 0.75 per cent of GDP (2006)".
Both quotes from D. Basset et al., A New Force (Reform, London 2009) p.19.
PDF here: http://www.reform.co.uk/Research/ResearchArticles/tabid/82/smid/378/ArticleID/166/reftab/82/t/A%20new%20force/Default.aspx
That's just in liberal democratic terms. If you take a radical view, and consider police partiality to corporations, and their (expensive) efforts to infiltrate and subvert social movements, then jeeze... isn't this a bit of a no-brainer?
squatticus
There is only one thing we should do with protesting police..
12.01.2011 12:23
Common sense
OK!
12.01.2011 12:44
FILM THEM
KETTLE THEM
BEAT THEM
SEND CHARGING HORSES INTO THEM WITH BATON RIDERS
TEAR GAS THEM
IMPRISON THEM
SHOOT THEM
FFF! - 666!
When
12.01.2011 12:47
if they are just protesting for increased wages, why should we support a group which represses us to get more wages?
anon
Get real
12.01.2011 13:42
The police are cowboys and we're the cows. Police force will not be cut.
There are plenty of ex military individuals in the anti military movement, but they are not campaigning for military jobs. They are campaigning against the military.
So if individuals leave the police, and genuinely renounce the force, that's good.
If they want me to campaign for police jobs, fuck 'em.
anarchist
'sympathy'?? oh purlease
12.01.2011 13:45
I think common sense and FFF! - 666! are on the right lines however.
Emma Goldman
Paris style
12.01.2011 14:30
fightback
Scouse style
12.01.2011 16:56
Vuk O. Dlak
My Heart Bleeeeeeeeeds.....
12.01.2011 19:23
Never.
RUE
e-mail: riseupeast@safe-mail.net
Homepage: http://riseupeast.wordpress.com
Isn't that How we Win?
12.01.2011 23:29
Serious
To Emma Goldman
12.01.2011 23:58
Are you proud of yourself that you chipped in with the usual disempowering silencing scene-anarchist bollocks that blocks any discussion of doubts or confusion people may be having?
original poster
Get real.
13.01.2011 12:41
Cops posting on IMC to "avert" anarchists from getting involved in police protests should not be allowed to work so kindly fuck off.
Secondly, the police are not interested in protest for things like civil liberties or important things but will come out when they need extra money. It is the only thing cops will ever protest for.
They have a few protests over the past few years and take some security measures to prevent disruption. Considering the fact that the police spend lots of energy disrupting IMC to the extent that anti-war protests have been disrupted and people have died as a direct result it makes sense for the community to pay back "in kind" the damage they have done to others in the past.
The police should not have the right, as a hierarchical organisation, to expect to peacefully protest for extra wage claims that only serve to prop up the state at our expense.
We should look to every opportunity to disrupt and disturb the relationship between the state and its organised gangs of thugs by infiltrating these organisations. We should do it to make the relationship between the state and its henchmen difficult and troublesome.
When the police "protest" they do things like distribute armbands and white baseball caps so their members can march in complete peace. These measures allow them to single out and identify those who are not police officers. If the police want to "protest" it is measures like this we need to disrupt in order to infiltrate and prevent the police from "protesting" peacefully.
The police, must never have access to that which they are actively engaged in preventing for others.
They kill, maim, disrupt, lie, cheat, commit serious crimes and are actively engaged in serious and organised crime which is a blight on the people of this country and a shame on the reputation of us all. Above all, they routinely consider that they are above the law at all times.
The police must NEVER be allowed to "protest". They must ALWAYS be denied, that which they deny to others.
anon
another option
13.01.2011 15:34
-
why can't people keep it respectful
14.01.2011 11:35
This is so unnecessary. Why are people so incapable of having a discussion without first throwing in some macho keyboard-warrior penis-enlarging bullshit about how anyone who isn't 100% agreed with you is a cop who should fuck off. This is a problem I have with the manifestation of anarchism, it's a problem I've always had and if me saying that makes me a cop then that assumption makes you a divisive protagonist of informal hierarchies who blocks out suggestions of disempowering behaviour, the very thing anarchism is all about challenging. All animals are equal but some are more equal than others right?
Ah but hell - I guess by now I've been written off as a cop stirring and no one's going to listen to my genuine concerns that have driven me away from many anarchist groups due to their inherent disempowerment.
craig