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What shall we do if the cops start protesting?

@@ | 12.01.2011 11:10

I want to open up a debate, nice and early, about this issue which came out yesterday. It has long been known that the police force will face massive cuts as part of the austerity measures. Yesterday Paul McKeever, the Police Federation chairman, warned MPs that the cops could take to the street in protest over these measures.

Now I wasn't following things the last time this happened (3 years ago in central london over backdated pay), and if I'm honest I don't have a clue how the "activist community" responded. So that's some important feeding in to do.

 http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/jan/11/police-street-protests-cuts-jobs

[Please keep things respectful - I am sure there will be people on here who want to support the protesting coppers, and those who want to brick them. Sometimes the world is not black and white and I think what we need first and foremost is a respectful discussion - so we can get all the opinions out in the open and people can make their own informed decisions and action can be planned on these bases. No one's going to convince anyone by going apeshit on the internet]

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My issue is this:

I don't want to do anything that will help bolster the police force. But from the sounds of things the cops have more than enough officers to mount a seriously impressive demo anyway. There are always reports that when cops police demos, actions etc they usually agree with the protesters' views in single-issue chunks, but disagree with their analysis of the state, and with any illegal actions on the day. I've witnessed this myself.

I always feel that cops are worthy of sympathy in that, while disempowering others, they also disempower themselves. They are powerful in some very scary ways, but in the most important way - personal empowerment to act upon one's believes - they are disempowered. I've never extended the cops sympathy for the simple reason that I care far more about other sections of society - the truly vulnerable sections - than I do the coppers who wield power and force horrendous situations onto others. But I feel the injustices they commit are social institutional injustices where the cops are just the cogs in a far more complex machine.

Now we see a lot of cops in a strange position - completely abandoned by the state they always defend. Willing to come out and protest. Far freer to act politically, given they are no longer restricted by their uniforms. I find it hard to justify sending away ex-coppers who want to get involved. So for that reason I find it hard to work out how to handle a police demonstration given this context.

But that's just my two cents - I really want to hear what everyone else thinks.

I'm also interested in how this situation would be handled by the state? Will they use "scab cops" to police the demo? Will they have to use the army? Private security? Or just trust the cops not to break the law?!?!

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Comments

Hide the following 14 comments

Can't be supported

12.01.2011 12:17

The police (even in liberal democratic terms) are vastly bloated here, and needed to be cut even before the attack on social welfare, which they are rather misleadingly being bundled with.

“Expenditure on policing has increased by over £4.5 billion in real terms since
1997 – a real increase of 43 per cent".

"Britain’s police are the most expensive in the world. As a proportion of GDP, spending on policing in England and Wales is higher than every OECD country for which figures are available (except Scotland). For comparison, expenditure in England and Wales on the police was 0.9 per cent of GDP in the latest year available (2005) – 20 per cent higher than the US figure of 0.75 per cent of GDP (2006)".

Both quotes from D. Basset et al., A New Force (Reform, London 2009) p.19.
PDF here:  http://www.reform.co.uk/Research/ResearchArticles/tabid/82/smid/378/ArticleID/166/reftab/82/t/A%20new%20force/Default.aspx

That's just in liberal democratic terms. If you take a radical view, and consider police partiality to corporations, and their (expensive) efforts to infiltrate and subvert social movements, then jeeze... isn't this a bit of a no-brainer?

squatticus


There is only one thing we should do with protesting police..

12.01.2011 12:23

..and that is KETTLE THEM

Common sense


OK!

12.01.2011 12:44

DATABASE THEM
FILM THEM
KETTLE THEM
BEAT THEM
SEND CHARGING HORSES INTO THEM WITH BATON RIDERS
TEAR GAS THEM
IMPRISON THEM
SHOOT THEM


FFF! - 666!


When

12.01.2011 12:47

if they disband or quit in protest, by all means

if they are just protesting for increased wages, why should we support a group which represses us to get more wages?

anon


Get real

12.01.2011 13:42

The pigs have no legitimate role. Have you ever been burgled. Did you get the same "service" as when you last "protested". If they even bother to turn up it's only a PR exercise. I would be happy to see the lot of 'em cut. But then there would be no state; how could our owners farm us for tax with no ranch men.
The police are cowboys and we're the cows. Police force will not be cut.

There are plenty of ex military individuals in the anti military movement, but they are not campaigning for military jobs. They are campaigning against the military.

So if individuals leave the police, and genuinely renounce the force, that's good.
If they want me to campaign for police jobs, fuck 'em.

anarchist


'sympathy'?? oh purlease

12.01.2011 13:45

To the OP - you do realise those 'poor cops' have a choice right?! Especially the ones who police demos on a Saturday - they get a nice lot of overtime to bash people like us over the head and the majority at least seem to really enjoy it. They would be wetting their pants chuckling over your comments. Get a grip.

I think common sense and FFF! - 666! are on the right lines however.

Emma Goldman


Paris style

12.01.2011 14:30

Cops protest in Paris regularly, driving around in trucks to avoid getting attacked while waving their batons at the public. The public spit and swear at them.

fightback


Scouse style

12.01.2011 16:56

During the last meaningful police strikes in 1918, when an actual police union pulled a large proportion of the filth out nationwide in a dispute over wagers and conditions (cops then were not that well paid relative to skilled workers), the Liverpool working class stepped in with thee only solidarity worth mentioning - a huge riot and looting spree, taking advantage of the absence of the bizzies from the streets. Who says you can't learn from history???

Vuk O. Dlak


My Heart Bleeeeeeeeeds.....

12.01.2011 19:23


You nearly had me there..actually considering your points raised, some of which were quite valid..but then I remembered, like priests around children, politicians, or very angry-rabid-foaming-at-the-mouth-type animals, you can never ever trust a copper.
Never.

RUE
mail e-mail: riseupeast@safe-mail.net
- Homepage: http://riseupeast.wordpress.com


Isn't that How we Win?

12.01.2011 23:29

I remember reading about a riot is Greece where scab cops attacked striking cops. It isn't about liking (or even trusting) the bastards; it's about winning the class war. If the police go on strike then couldn't we all go on strike with no one to break our picket lines ? : )

Serious


To Emma Goldman

12.01.2011 23:58

Thanks. I thought I'd made it quite clear I'm aware of various other arguments - when I say "my issue is this" I think it's fairly clear I mean that this is the one thing that's making me concerned. I love it when someone tries to bring up an interesting discussion that is going to have to be dealt with at some point (sorry, not everyone feels the same as you or me, I do hope you're aware of this and don't see people who don't agree with you on everything as "the enemy") so I wanted to voice a niggle I have and open the floor to other people who might feel the same.

Are you proud of yourself that you chipped in with the usual disempowering silencing scene-anarchist bollocks that blocks any discussion of doubts or confusion people may be having?

original poster


Get real.

13.01.2011 12:41

OK first thing first.

Cops posting on IMC to "avert" anarchists from getting involved in police protests should not be allowed to work so kindly fuck off.

Secondly, the police are not interested in protest for things like civil liberties or important things but will come out when they need extra money. It is the only thing cops will ever protest for.

They have a few protests over the past few years and take some security measures to prevent disruption. Considering the fact that the police spend lots of energy disrupting IMC to the extent that anti-war protests have been disrupted and people have died as a direct result it makes sense for the community to pay back "in kind" the damage they have done to others in the past.

The police should not have the right, as a hierarchical organisation, to expect to peacefully protest for extra wage claims that only serve to prop up the state at our expense.

We should look to every opportunity to disrupt and disturb the relationship between the state and its organised gangs of thugs by infiltrating these organisations. We should do it to make the relationship between the state and its henchmen difficult and troublesome.

When the police "protest" they do things like distribute armbands and white baseball caps so their members can march in complete peace. These measures allow them to single out and identify those who are not police officers. If the police want to "protest" it is measures like this we need to disrupt in order to infiltrate and prevent the police from "protesting" peacefully.

The police, must never have access to that which they are actively engaged in preventing for others.

They kill, maim, disrupt, lie, cheat, commit serious crimes and are actively engaged in serious and organised crime which is a blight on the people of this country and a shame on the reputation of us all. Above all, they routinely consider that they are above the law at all times.

The police must NEVER be allowed to "protest". They must ALWAYS be denied, that which they deny to others.

anon


another option

13.01.2011 15:34

As well as the other option listed so far (give them a taste of their own medicine, take advantage of the lack of cops to go on the offensive etc) there is always the option of mocking them:  http://www.spacehijackers.co.uk/html/projects/policeprotest/police.html

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why can't people keep it respectful

14.01.2011 11:35

"Cops posting on IMC to "avert" anarchists from getting involved in police protests should not be allowed to work so kindly fuck off."

This is so unnecessary. Why are people so incapable of having a discussion without first throwing in some macho keyboard-warrior penis-enlarging bullshit about how anyone who isn't 100% agreed with you is a cop who should fuck off. This is a problem I have with the manifestation of anarchism, it's a problem I've always had and if me saying that makes me a cop then that assumption makes you a divisive protagonist of informal hierarchies who blocks out suggestions of disempowering behaviour, the very thing anarchism is all about challenging. All animals are equal but some are more equal than others right?

Ah but hell - I guess by now I've been written off as a cop stirring and no one's going to listen to my genuine concerns that have driven me away from many anarchist groups due to their inherent disempowerment.

craig