Israel "wiped off the map": The rumor of the century, fabricated by the US media
Arash Norouzi | 26.09.2010 10:45 | Analysis | Anti-militarism | Other Press | Sheffield | World
The following text by Arash Norouzi first published by the Mossadegh Project and Global Research in January 2007 confirms that the alleged "Wiped Off the Map" statement by Iran's president was never made.
The rumor was fabricated by the American media with a view to discrediting Iran's head of state and providing a justification for waging an all out war on Iran. the article provides of media manipulation and "propaganda in action".
[caption] Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu holds up copies of Nazi plans for the Holocaust at the UN general assembly, 24 September 2009
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Israel: "Wiped off The Map". The Rumor of the Century, Fabricated by the US Media to Justify An All out War on Iran
Editor's Note:
The following text by Arash Norouzi first published by the Mossadegh Project and Global Research in January 2007 confirms that the alleged "Wiped Off the Map" statement by Iran's president was never made.
The rumor was fabricated by the American media with a view to discrediting Iran's head of state and providing a justification for waging an all out war on Iran. the article provides of media manipulation and "propaganda in action".
Iran is blamed for refusing to abide by the "reasonable demands" of "the international community".
Realities are twisted and turned upside down. Iran is being accused of wanting to start a war. Inherent in US military doctrine, the victims of war are heralded as the aggressor.
The threat to global security comes from the US-NATO-Israel military alliance, which is now threatening Iran with a pre-emptive attack with nuclear warheads.
If Iran is attacked, we are potentially in a World War III scenario.
It is essential to dispel the fabrications of the Western media.
Iran does not constitute a threat to to Global Security.
Iran does not possess a nuclear weapons program. Iran does not constitute a threat to Israel.
Michel Chossudovsky, 25 September 2010
_______________________________________
Wiped off The Map: The Rumor of the Century
by Arash Norouzi, 20 January 2007
Across the world, a dangerous rumor has spread that could have catastrophic implications. According to legend, Iran's President has threatened to destroy Israel, or, to quote the misquote, "Israel must be wiped off the map". Contrary to popular belief, this statement was never made, as this article will prove.
Across the world, a dangerous rumor has spread that could have catastrophic implications. According to legend, Iran's President has threatened to destroy Israel, or, to quote the misquote, "Israel must be wiped off the map". Contrary to popular belief, this statement was never made, as this article will prove.
BACKGROUND:
On Tuesday, October 25th, 2005 at the Ministry of Interior conference hall in Tehran, newly elected Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad delivered a speech at a program, reportedly attended by thousands, titled "The World Without Zionism". Large posters surrounding him displayed this title prominently in English, obviously for the benefit of the international press. Below the poster's title was a slick graphic depicting an hour glass containing planet Earth at its top. Two small round orbs representing the United States and Israel are shown falling through the hour glass' narrow neck and crashing to the bottom.
Before we get to the infamous remark, it's important to note that the "quote" in question was itself a quote— they are the words of the late Ayatollah Khomeini, the father of the Islamic Revolution. Although he quoted Khomeini to affirm his own position on Zionism, the actual words belong to Khomeini and not Ahmadinejad. Thus, Ahmadinejad has essentially been credited (or blamed) for a quote that is not only unoriginal, but represents a viewpoint already in place well before he ever took office.
THE ACTUAL QUOTE:
So what did Ahmadinejad actually say? To quote his exact words in farsi: "Imam ghoft een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad."
That passage will mean nothing to most people, but one word might ring a bell: rezhim-e. It is the word "Regime", pronounced just like the English word with an extra "eh" sound at the end. Ahmadinejad did not refer to Israel the country or Israel the land mass, but the Israeli regime. This is a vastly significant distinction, as one cannot wipe a regime off the map. Ahmadinejad does not even refer to Israel by name, he instead uses the specific phrase "rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods" (regime occupying Jerusalem).
So this raises the question.. what exactly did he want "wiped from the map"? The answer is: nothing. That's because the word "map" was never used. The Persian word for map, "nagsheh", is not contained anywhere in his original farsi quote, or, for that matter, anywhere in his entire speech. Nor was the western phrase "wipe out" ever said. Yet we are led to believe that Iran's President threatened to "wipe Israel off the map", despite never having uttered the words "map", "wipe out" or even "Israel".
THE PROOF:
The full quote translated directly to English:
"The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time".
Word by word translation:
Imam (Khomeini) ghoft (said) een (this) rezhim-e (regime) ishghalgar-e (occupying) qods (Jerusalem) bayad (must) az safheh-ye ruzgar (from page of time) mahv shavad (vanish from).
Here is the full transcript of the speech in farsi, archived on Ahmadinejad's web site
www.president.ir/farsi/ahmadinejad/speeches/1384/aban-84/840804sahyonizm.htm
THE SPEECH AND CONTEXT:
While the false "wiped off the map" extract has been repeated infinitely without verification, Ahmadinejad's actual speech itself has been almost entirely ignored. Given the importance placed on the "map" comment, it would be sensible to present his words in their full context to get a fuller understanding of his position. In fact, by looking at the entire speech, there is a clear, logical trajectory leading up to his call for a "world without Zionism". One may disagree with his reasoning, but critical appraisals are infeasible without first knowing what that reasoning is.
In his speech, Ahmadinejad declares that Zionism is the West's apparatus of political oppression against Muslims. He says the "Zionist regime" was imposed on the Islamic world as a strategic bridgehead to ensure domination of the region and its assets. Palestine, he insists, is the frontline of the Islamic world's struggle with American hegemony, and its fate will have repercussions for the entire Middle East.
Ahmadinejad acknowledges that the removal of America's powerful grip on the region via the Zionists may seem unimaginable to some, but reminds the audience that, as Khomeini predicted, other seemingly invincible empires have disappeared and now only exist in history books. He then proceeds to list three such regimes that have collapsed, crumbled or vanished, all within the last 30 years:
(1) The Shah of Iran- the U.S. installed monarch
(2) The Soviet Union
(3) Iran's former arch-enemy, Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein
In the first and third examples, Ahmadinejad prefaces their mention with Khomeini's own words foretelling that individual regime's demise. He concludes by referring to Khomeini's unfulfilled wish: "The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time. This statement is very wise". This is the passage that has been isolated, twisted and distorted so famously. By measure of comparison, Ahmadinejad would seem to be calling for regime change, not war.
THE ORIGIN:
One may wonder: where did this false interpretation originate? Who is responsible for the translation that has sparked such worldwide controversy? The answer is surprising.
The inflammatory "wiped off the map" quote was first disseminated not by Iran's enemies, but by Iran itself. The Islamic Republic News Agency, Iran's official propaganda arm, used this phrasing in the English version of some of their news releases covering the World Without Zionism conference. International media including the BBC, Al Jazeera, Time magazine and countless others picked up the IRNA quote and made headlines out of it without verifying its accuracy, and rarely referring to the source. Iran's Foreign Minister soon attempted to clarify the statement, but the quote had a life of its own. Though the IRNA wording was inaccurate and misleading, the media assumed it was true, and besides, it made great copy.
Amid heated wrangling over Iran's nuclear program, and months of continuous, unfounded accusations against Iran in an attempt to rally support for preemptive strikes against the country, the imperialists had just been handed the perfect raison d'être to invade. To the war hawks, it was a gift from the skies.
It should be noted that in other references to the conference, the IRNA's translation changed. For instance, "map" was replaced with "earth". In some articles it was "The Qods occupier regime should be eliminated from the surface of earth", or the similar "The Qods occupying regime must be eliminated from the surface of earth". The inconsistency of the IRNA's translation should be evidence enough of the unreliability of the source, particularly when transcribing their news from Farsi into the English language.
THE REACTION:
The mistranslated "wiped off the map" quote attributed to Iran's President has been spread worldwide, repeated thousands of times in international media, and prompted the denouncements of numerous world leaders. Virtually every major and minor media outlet has published or broadcast this false statement to the masses. Big news agencies such as The Associated Press and Reuters refer to the misquote, literally, on an almost daily basis.
Following news of Iran's remark, condemnation was swift. British Prime Minister Tony Blair expressed "revulsion" and implied that it might be necessary to attack Iran. U.N. chief Kofi Annan cancelled his scheduled trip to Iran due to the controversy. Ariel Sharon demanded that Iran be expelled from the United Nations for calling for Israel's destruction. Shimon Peres, more than once, threatened to wipe Iran off the map. More recently, Israel's Benjamin Netanyahu, who has warned that Iran is "preparing another holocaust for the Jewish state" is calling for Ahmadinejad to be tried for war crimes for inciting genocide.
The artificial quote has also been subject to additional alterations. U.S. officials and media often take the liberty of dropping the "map" reference altogether, replacing it with the more acutely threatening phrase "wipe Israel off the face of the earth". Newspaper and magazine articles dutifully report Ahmadinejad has "called for the destruction of Israel", as do senior officials in the United States government.
President George W. Bush said the comments represented a "specific threat" to destroy Israel. In a March 2006 speech in Cleveland, Bush vowed he would resort to war to protect Israel from Iran, because, "..the threat from Iran is, of course, their stated objective to destroy our strong ally Israel." Former Presidential advisor Richard Clarke told Australian TV that Iran "talks openly about destroying Israel", and insists, "The President of Iran has said repeatedly that he wants to wipe Israel off the face of the earth". In an October 2006 interview with Amy Goodman, former UN Weapons Inspector Scott Ritter referred to Ahmadinejad as "the idiot that comes out and says really stupid, vile things, such as, 'It is the goal of Iran to wipe Israel off the face of the earth' ". The consensus is clear.
Confusing matters further, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad pontificates rather than give a direct answer when questioned about the statement, such as in Lally Weymouth's Washington Post interview in September 2006:
Are you really serious when you say that Israel should be wiped off the face of the Earth?
We need to look at the scene in the Middle East — 60 years of war, 60 years of displacement, 60 years of conflict, not even a day of peace. Look at the war in Lebanon, the war in Gaza — what are the reasons for these conditions? We need to address and resolve the root problem.
Your suggestion is to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth?
Our suggestion is very clear:... Let the Palestinian people decide their fate in a free and fair referendum, and the result, whatever it is, should be accepted.... The people with no roots there are now ruling the land.
You've been quoted as saying that Israel should be wiped off the face of the Earth. Is that your belief?
What I have said has made my position clear. If we look at a map of the Middle East from 70 years ago...
So, the answer is yes, you do believe that it should be wiped off the face of the Earth?
Are you asking me yes or no? Is this a test? Do you respect the right to self-determination for the Palestinian nation? Yes or no? Is Palestine, as a nation, considered a nation with the right to live under humane conditions or not? Let's allow those rights to be enforced for these 5 million displaced people.
The exchange is typical of Ahmadinejad's interviews with the American media. Predictably, both Mike Wallace of 60 Minutes and CNN's Anderson Cooper asked if he wants to "wipe Israel off the map". As usual, the question is thrown back in the reporter's face with his standard "Don't the Palestinians have rights?, etc." retort (which is never directly answered either). Yet he never confirms the "map" comment to be true. This did not prevent Anderson Cooper from referring to earlier portions of his interview after a commercial break and lying, "as he said earlier, he wants Israel wiped off the map".
Even if every media outlet in the world were to retract the mistranslated quote tomorrow, the major damage has already been done, providing the groundwork for the next phase of disinformation: complete character demonization. Ahmadinejad, we are told, is the next Hitler, a grave threat to world peace who wants to bring about a new Holocaust. According to some detractors, he not only wants to destroy Israel, but after that, he will nuke America, and then Europe! An October 2006 memo titled Words of Hate: Iran's Escalating Threats released by the powerful Israeli lobby group AIPAC opens with the warning, "Ahmadinejad and other top Iranian leaders are issuing increasingly belligerent statements threatening to destroy the United States, Europe and Israel." These claims not only fabricate an unsubstantiated threat, but assume far more power than he actually possesses. Alarmists would be better off monitoring the statements of the ultra-conservative Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Khamenei, who holds the most power in Iran.
As Iran's U.N. Press Officer, M.A. Mohammadi, complained to The Washington Post in a June 2006 letter:
It is not amazing at all, the pick-and-choose approach of highlighting the misinterpreted remarks of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in October and ignoring this month's remarks by Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, that "We have no problem with the world. We are not a threat whatsoever to the world, and the world knows it. We will never start a war. We have no intention of going to war with any state."
The Israeli government has milked every drop of the spurious quote to its supposed advantage. In her September 2006 address to the United Nations General Assembly, Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni accused Iran of working to nuke Israel and bully the world. "They speak proudly and openly of their desire to 'wipe Israel off the map.' And now, by their actions, they pursue the weapons to achieve this objective to imperil the region and threaten the world." Addressing the threat in December, a fervent Prime Minister Ehud Olmert inadvertently disclosed that his country already possesses nuclear weapons: "We have never threatened any nation with annihilation. Iran, openly, explicitly and publicly threatens to wipe Israel off the map. Can you say that this is the same level, when they are aspiring to have nuclear weapons, as America, France, Israel, Russia?"
MEDIA IRRESPONSIBILITY:
On December 13, 2006, more than a year after The World Without Zionism conference, two leading Israeli newspapers, The Jerusalem Post and Haaretz, published reports of a renewed threat from Ahmadinejad. The Jerusalem Post's headline was Ahmadinejad: Israel will be 'wiped out', while Haaretz posted the title Ahmadinejad at Holocaust conference: Israel will 'soon be wiped out'.
Where did they get their information? It turns out that both papers, like most American and western media, rely heavily on write ups by news wire services such as the Associated Press and Reuters as a source for their articles. Sure enough, their sources are in fact December 12th articles by Reuter's Paul Hughes [Iran president says Israel's days are numbered], and the AP's Ali Akbar Dareini [Iran President: Israel Will be wiped out].
The first five paragraphs of the Haaretz article, credited to "Haaretz Service and Agencies", are plagiarized almost 100% from the first five paragraphs of the Reuters piece. The only difference is that Haaretz changed "the Jewish state" to "Israel" in the second paragraph, otherwise they are identical.
The Jerusalem Post article by Herb Keinon pilfers from both the Reuters and AP stories. Like Haaretz, it uses the following Ahmadinejad quote without attribution: ["Just as the Soviet Union was wiped out and today does not exist, so will the Zionist regime soon be wiped out," he added]. Another passage apparently relies on an IRNA report:
"The Zionist regime will be wiped out soon the same way the Soviet Union was, and humanity will achieve freedom," Ahmadinejad said at Tuesday's meeting with the conference participants in his offices, according to Iran's official news agency, IRNA.
He said elections should be held among "Jews, Christians and Muslims so the population of Palestine can select their government and destiny for themselves in a democratic manner."
Once again, the first sentence above was wholly plagiarized from the AP article. The second sentence was also the same, except "He called for elections" became "He said elections should be held..".
It gets more interesting.
The quote used in the original AP article and copied in The Jerusalem Post article supposedly derives from the IRNA. If true, this can easily be checked. Care to find out? Go to: www.irna.ir/en/news/view/menu-234/0612134902101231.htm
There you will discover the actual IRNA quote was:
"As the Soviet Union disappeared, the Zionist regime will also vanish and humanity will be liberated".
Compare this to the alleged IRNA quote reported by the Associated Press:
"The Zionist regime will be wiped out soon the same way the Soviet Union was, and humanity will achieve freedom".
In the IRNA's actual report, the Zionist regime will vanish just as the Soviet Union disappeared. Vanish. Disappear. In the dishonest AP version, the Zionist regime will be "wiped out". And how will it be wiped out? "The same way the Soviet Union was". Rather than imply a military threat or escalation in rhetoric, this reference to Russia actually validates the intended meaning of Ahmadinejad's previous misinterpreted anti-Zionist statements.
What has just been demonstrated is irrefutable proof of media manipulation and propaganda in action. The AP deliberately alters an IRNA quote to sound more threatening. The Israeli media not only repeats the fake quote but also steals the original authors' words. The unsuspecting public reads this, forms an opinion and supports unnecessary wars of aggression, presented as self defense, based on the misinformation.
This scenario mirrors the kind of false claims that led to the illegal U.S. invasion of Iraq, a war now widely viewed as a catastrophic mistake. And yet the Bush administration and the compliant corporate media continue to marinate in propaganda and speculation about attacking Iraq's much larger and more formidable neighbor, Iran. Most of this rests on the unproven assumption that Iran is building nuclear weapons, and the lie that Iran has vowed to physically destroy Israel. Given its scope and potentially disastrous outcome, all this amounts to what is arguably the rumor of the century.
Iran's President has written two rather philosophical letters to America. In his first letter, he pointed out that "History shows us that oppressive and cruel governments do not survive". With this statement, Ahmadinejad has also projected the outcome of his own backwards regime, which will likewise "vanish from the page of time".
* Arash Norouzi is an artist and co-founder of The Mossadegh Project. He can be reached via his web site:
http://www.mohammadmossadegh.com/
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Israel: "Wiped off The Map". The Rumor of the Century, Fabricated by the US Media to Justify An All out War on Iran
Editor's Note:
The following text by Arash Norouzi first published by the Mossadegh Project and Global Research in January 2007 confirms that the alleged "Wiped Off the Map" statement by Iran's president was never made.
The rumor was fabricated by the American media with a view to discrediting Iran's head of state and providing a justification for waging an all out war on Iran. the article provides of media manipulation and "propaganda in action".
Iran is blamed for refusing to abide by the "reasonable demands" of "the international community".
Realities are twisted and turned upside down. Iran is being accused of wanting to start a war. Inherent in US military doctrine, the victims of war are heralded as the aggressor.
The threat to global security comes from the US-NATO-Israel military alliance, which is now threatening Iran with a pre-emptive attack with nuclear warheads.
If Iran is attacked, we are potentially in a World War III scenario.
It is essential to dispel the fabrications of the Western media.
Iran does not constitute a threat to to Global Security.
Iran does not possess a nuclear weapons program. Iran does not constitute a threat to Israel.
Michel Chossudovsky, 25 September 2010
_______________________________________
Wiped off The Map: The Rumor of the Century
by Arash Norouzi, 20 January 2007
Across the world, a dangerous rumor has spread that could have catastrophic implications. According to legend, Iran's President has threatened to destroy Israel, or, to quote the misquote, "Israel must be wiped off the map". Contrary to popular belief, this statement was never made, as this article will prove.
Across the world, a dangerous rumor has spread that could have catastrophic implications. According to legend, Iran's President has threatened to destroy Israel, or, to quote the misquote, "Israel must be wiped off the map". Contrary to popular belief, this statement was never made, as this article will prove.
BACKGROUND:
On Tuesday, October 25th, 2005 at the Ministry of Interior conference hall in Tehran, newly elected Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad delivered a speech at a program, reportedly attended by thousands, titled "The World Without Zionism". Large posters surrounding him displayed this title prominently in English, obviously for the benefit of the international press. Below the poster's title was a slick graphic depicting an hour glass containing planet Earth at its top. Two small round orbs representing the United States and Israel are shown falling through the hour glass' narrow neck and crashing to the bottom.
Before we get to the infamous remark, it's important to note that the "quote" in question was itself a quote— they are the words of the late Ayatollah Khomeini, the father of the Islamic Revolution. Although he quoted Khomeini to affirm his own position on Zionism, the actual words belong to Khomeini and not Ahmadinejad. Thus, Ahmadinejad has essentially been credited (or blamed) for a quote that is not only unoriginal, but represents a viewpoint already in place well before he ever took office.
THE ACTUAL QUOTE:
So what did Ahmadinejad actually say? To quote his exact words in farsi: "Imam ghoft een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad."
That passage will mean nothing to most people, but one word might ring a bell: rezhim-e. It is the word "Regime", pronounced just like the English word with an extra "eh" sound at the end. Ahmadinejad did not refer to Israel the country or Israel the land mass, but the Israeli regime. This is a vastly significant distinction, as one cannot wipe a regime off the map. Ahmadinejad does not even refer to Israel by name, he instead uses the specific phrase "rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods" (regime occupying Jerusalem).
So this raises the question.. what exactly did he want "wiped from the map"? The answer is: nothing. That's because the word "map" was never used. The Persian word for map, "nagsheh", is not contained anywhere in his original farsi quote, or, for that matter, anywhere in his entire speech. Nor was the western phrase "wipe out" ever said. Yet we are led to believe that Iran's President threatened to "wipe Israel off the map", despite never having uttered the words "map", "wipe out" or even "Israel".
THE PROOF:
The full quote translated directly to English:
"The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time".
Word by word translation:
Imam (Khomeini) ghoft (said) een (this) rezhim-e (regime) ishghalgar-e (occupying) qods (Jerusalem) bayad (must) az safheh-ye ruzgar (from page of time) mahv shavad (vanish from).
Here is the full transcript of the speech in farsi, archived on Ahmadinejad's web site
www.president.ir/farsi/ahmadinejad/speeches/1384/aban-84/840804sahyonizm.htm
THE SPEECH AND CONTEXT:
While the false "wiped off the map" extract has been repeated infinitely without verification, Ahmadinejad's actual speech itself has been almost entirely ignored. Given the importance placed on the "map" comment, it would be sensible to present his words in their full context to get a fuller understanding of his position. In fact, by looking at the entire speech, there is a clear, logical trajectory leading up to his call for a "world without Zionism". One may disagree with his reasoning, but critical appraisals are infeasible without first knowing what that reasoning is.
In his speech, Ahmadinejad declares that Zionism is the West's apparatus of political oppression against Muslims. He says the "Zionist regime" was imposed on the Islamic world as a strategic bridgehead to ensure domination of the region and its assets. Palestine, he insists, is the frontline of the Islamic world's struggle with American hegemony, and its fate will have repercussions for the entire Middle East.
Ahmadinejad acknowledges that the removal of America's powerful grip on the region via the Zionists may seem unimaginable to some, but reminds the audience that, as Khomeini predicted, other seemingly invincible empires have disappeared and now only exist in history books. He then proceeds to list three such regimes that have collapsed, crumbled or vanished, all within the last 30 years:
(1) The Shah of Iran- the U.S. installed monarch
(2) The Soviet Union
(3) Iran's former arch-enemy, Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein
In the first and third examples, Ahmadinejad prefaces their mention with Khomeini's own words foretelling that individual regime's demise. He concludes by referring to Khomeini's unfulfilled wish: "The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time. This statement is very wise". This is the passage that has been isolated, twisted and distorted so famously. By measure of comparison, Ahmadinejad would seem to be calling for regime change, not war.
THE ORIGIN:
One may wonder: where did this false interpretation originate? Who is responsible for the translation that has sparked such worldwide controversy? The answer is surprising.
The inflammatory "wiped off the map" quote was first disseminated not by Iran's enemies, but by Iran itself. The Islamic Republic News Agency, Iran's official propaganda arm, used this phrasing in the English version of some of their news releases covering the World Without Zionism conference. International media including the BBC, Al Jazeera, Time magazine and countless others picked up the IRNA quote and made headlines out of it without verifying its accuracy, and rarely referring to the source. Iran's Foreign Minister soon attempted to clarify the statement, but the quote had a life of its own. Though the IRNA wording was inaccurate and misleading, the media assumed it was true, and besides, it made great copy.
Amid heated wrangling over Iran's nuclear program, and months of continuous, unfounded accusations against Iran in an attempt to rally support for preemptive strikes against the country, the imperialists had just been handed the perfect raison d'être to invade. To the war hawks, it was a gift from the skies.
It should be noted that in other references to the conference, the IRNA's translation changed. For instance, "map" was replaced with "earth". In some articles it was "The Qods occupier regime should be eliminated from the surface of earth", or the similar "The Qods occupying regime must be eliminated from the surface of earth". The inconsistency of the IRNA's translation should be evidence enough of the unreliability of the source, particularly when transcribing their news from Farsi into the English language.
THE REACTION:
The mistranslated "wiped off the map" quote attributed to Iran's President has been spread worldwide, repeated thousands of times in international media, and prompted the denouncements of numerous world leaders. Virtually every major and minor media outlet has published or broadcast this false statement to the masses. Big news agencies such as The Associated Press and Reuters refer to the misquote, literally, on an almost daily basis.
Following news of Iran's remark, condemnation was swift. British Prime Minister Tony Blair expressed "revulsion" and implied that it might be necessary to attack Iran. U.N. chief Kofi Annan cancelled his scheduled trip to Iran due to the controversy. Ariel Sharon demanded that Iran be expelled from the United Nations for calling for Israel's destruction. Shimon Peres, more than once, threatened to wipe Iran off the map. More recently, Israel's Benjamin Netanyahu, who has warned that Iran is "preparing another holocaust for the Jewish state" is calling for Ahmadinejad to be tried for war crimes for inciting genocide.
The artificial quote has also been subject to additional alterations. U.S. officials and media often take the liberty of dropping the "map" reference altogether, replacing it with the more acutely threatening phrase "wipe Israel off the face of the earth". Newspaper and magazine articles dutifully report Ahmadinejad has "called for the destruction of Israel", as do senior officials in the United States government.
President George W. Bush said the comments represented a "specific threat" to destroy Israel. In a March 2006 speech in Cleveland, Bush vowed he would resort to war to protect Israel from Iran, because, "..the threat from Iran is, of course, their stated objective to destroy our strong ally Israel." Former Presidential advisor Richard Clarke told Australian TV that Iran "talks openly about destroying Israel", and insists, "The President of Iran has said repeatedly that he wants to wipe Israel off the face of the earth". In an October 2006 interview with Amy Goodman, former UN Weapons Inspector Scott Ritter referred to Ahmadinejad as "the idiot that comes out and says really stupid, vile things, such as, 'It is the goal of Iran to wipe Israel off the face of the earth' ". The consensus is clear.
Confusing matters further, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad pontificates rather than give a direct answer when questioned about the statement, such as in Lally Weymouth's Washington Post interview in September 2006:
Are you really serious when you say that Israel should be wiped off the face of the Earth?
We need to look at the scene in the Middle East — 60 years of war, 60 years of displacement, 60 years of conflict, not even a day of peace. Look at the war in Lebanon, the war in Gaza — what are the reasons for these conditions? We need to address and resolve the root problem.
Your suggestion is to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth?
Our suggestion is very clear:... Let the Palestinian people decide their fate in a free and fair referendum, and the result, whatever it is, should be accepted.... The people with no roots there are now ruling the land.
You've been quoted as saying that Israel should be wiped off the face of the Earth. Is that your belief?
What I have said has made my position clear. If we look at a map of the Middle East from 70 years ago...
So, the answer is yes, you do believe that it should be wiped off the face of the Earth?
Are you asking me yes or no? Is this a test? Do you respect the right to self-determination for the Palestinian nation? Yes or no? Is Palestine, as a nation, considered a nation with the right to live under humane conditions or not? Let's allow those rights to be enforced for these 5 million displaced people.
The exchange is typical of Ahmadinejad's interviews with the American media. Predictably, both Mike Wallace of 60 Minutes and CNN's Anderson Cooper asked if he wants to "wipe Israel off the map". As usual, the question is thrown back in the reporter's face with his standard "Don't the Palestinians have rights?, etc." retort (which is never directly answered either). Yet he never confirms the "map" comment to be true. This did not prevent Anderson Cooper from referring to earlier portions of his interview after a commercial break and lying, "as he said earlier, he wants Israel wiped off the map".
Even if every media outlet in the world were to retract the mistranslated quote tomorrow, the major damage has already been done, providing the groundwork for the next phase of disinformation: complete character demonization. Ahmadinejad, we are told, is the next Hitler, a grave threat to world peace who wants to bring about a new Holocaust. According to some detractors, he not only wants to destroy Israel, but after that, he will nuke America, and then Europe! An October 2006 memo titled Words of Hate: Iran's Escalating Threats released by the powerful Israeli lobby group AIPAC opens with the warning, "Ahmadinejad and other top Iranian leaders are issuing increasingly belligerent statements threatening to destroy the United States, Europe and Israel." These claims not only fabricate an unsubstantiated threat, but assume far more power than he actually possesses. Alarmists would be better off monitoring the statements of the ultra-conservative Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Khamenei, who holds the most power in Iran.
As Iran's U.N. Press Officer, M.A. Mohammadi, complained to The Washington Post in a June 2006 letter:
It is not amazing at all, the pick-and-choose approach of highlighting the misinterpreted remarks of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in October and ignoring this month's remarks by Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, that "We have no problem with the world. We are not a threat whatsoever to the world, and the world knows it. We will never start a war. We have no intention of going to war with any state."
The Israeli government has milked every drop of the spurious quote to its supposed advantage. In her September 2006 address to the United Nations General Assembly, Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni accused Iran of working to nuke Israel and bully the world. "They speak proudly and openly of their desire to 'wipe Israel off the map.' And now, by their actions, they pursue the weapons to achieve this objective to imperil the region and threaten the world." Addressing the threat in December, a fervent Prime Minister Ehud Olmert inadvertently disclosed that his country already possesses nuclear weapons: "We have never threatened any nation with annihilation. Iran, openly, explicitly and publicly threatens to wipe Israel off the map. Can you say that this is the same level, when they are aspiring to have nuclear weapons, as America, France, Israel, Russia?"
MEDIA IRRESPONSIBILITY:
On December 13, 2006, more than a year after The World Without Zionism conference, two leading Israeli newspapers, The Jerusalem Post and Haaretz, published reports of a renewed threat from Ahmadinejad. The Jerusalem Post's headline was Ahmadinejad: Israel will be 'wiped out', while Haaretz posted the title Ahmadinejad at Holocaust conference: Israel will 'soon be wiped out'.
Where did they get their information? It turns out that both papers, like most American and western media, rely heavily on write ups by news wire services such as the Associated Press and Reuters as a source for their articles. Sure enough, their sources are in fact December 12th articles by Reuter's Paul Hughes [Iran president says Israel's days are numbered], and the AP's Ali Akbar Dareini [Iran President: Israel Will be wiped out].
The first five paragraphs of the Haaretz article, credited to "Haaretz Service and Agencies", are plagiarized almost 100% from the first five paragraphs of the Reuters piece. The only difference is that Haaretz changed "the Jewish state" to "Israel" in the second paragraph, otherwise they are identical.
The Jerusalem Post article by Herb Keinon pilfers from both the Reuters and AP stories. Like Haaretz, it uses the following Ahmadinejad quote without attribution: ["Just as the Soviet Union was wiped out and today does not exist, so will the Zionist regime soon be wiped out," he added]. Another passage apparently relies on an IRNA report:
"The Zionist regime will be wiped out soon the same way the Soviet Union was, and humanity will achieve freedom," Ahmadinejad said at Tuesday's meeting with the conference participants in his offices, according to Iran's official news agency, IRNA.
He said elections should be held among "Jews, Christians and Muslims so the population of Palestine can select their government and destiny for themselves in a democratic manner."
Once again, the first sentence above was wholly plagiarized from the AP article. The second sentence was also the same, except "He called for elections" became "He said elections should be held..".
It gets more interesting.
The quote used in the original AP article and copied in The Jerusalem Post article supposedly derives from the IRNA. If true, this can easily be checked. Care to find out? Go to: www.irna.ir/en/news/view/menu-234/0612134902101231.htm
There you will discover the actual IRNA quote was:
"As the Soviet Union disappeared, the Zionist regime will also vanish and humanity will be liberated".
Compare this to the alleged IRNA quote reported by the Associated Press:
"The Zionist regime will be wiped out soon the same way the Soviet Union was, and humanity will achieve freedom".
In the IRNA's actual report, the Zionist regime will vanish just as the Soviet Union disappeared. Vanish. Disappear. In the dishonest AP version, the Zionist regime will be "wiped out". And how will it be wiped out? "The same way the Soviet Union was". Rather than imply a military threat or escalation in rhetoric, this reference to Russia actually validates the intended meaning of Ahmadinejad's previous misinterpreted anti-Zionist statements.
What has just been demonstrated is irrefutable proof of media manipulation and propaganda in action. The AP deliberately alters an IRNA quote to sound more threatening. The Israeli media not only repeats the fake quote but also steals the original authors' words. The unsuspecting public reads this, forms an opinion and supports unnecessary wars of aggression, presented as self defense, based on the misinformation.
This scenario mirrors the kind of false claims that led to the illegal U.S. invasion of Iraq, a war now widely viewed as a catastrophic mistake. And yet the Bush administration and the compliant corporate media continue to marinate in propaganda and speculation about attacking Iraq's much larger and more formidable neighbor, Iran. Most of this rests on the unproven assumption that Iran is building nuclear weapons, and the lie that Iran has vowed to physically destroy Israel. Given its scope and potentially disastrous outcome, all this amounts to what is arguably the rumor of the century.
Iran's President has written two rather philosophical letters to America. In his first letter, he pointed out that "History shows us that oppressive and cruel governments do not survive". With this statement, Ahmadinejad has also projected the outcome of his own backwards regime, which will likewise "vanish from the page of time".
* Arash Norouzi is an artist and co-founder of The Mossadegh Project. He can be reached via his web site:
http://www.mohammadmossadegh.com/
Arash Norouzi
Homepage:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=21188
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US army chief: We're obliged to make sure that the Holocaust never happens again
26.09.2010 11:03
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
US army chief: We are obligated to make sure that the Holocaust will never happen again
15 Feburary 2010
[propaganda alert]
“We, all of us, are obligated to make sure that such terrible events [i.e. the Holocaust] will never happen again.”
[US army chief Michael Mullen, speech at the Yad Vashem Holocaust Museum, Jerusalem, 15 February 2010] [1]
“We would operate all our forces for Israel. […] The option to attack Iran is still on the table, but we’re not there yet.”
[US army chief Michael Mullen, joint press conference with the Israeli army chief Gabi Ashkenazi, Tel Aviv, 14 February 2010] [2]
___________________
from the archives:
“Our soul screams out: ‘This [i.e. the Holocaust] can’t be correct, this must not be real.’ But then, defeated, it screams out ‘Never Again.’ ”
[Italy’s Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi, comments in the visitors’ book, Yad Vashem Holocaust Museum, Jerusalem, 1 February 2010] [3]
“Never again ignore blood-thirsty dictators, hiding behind demagogical masks, who utter murderous slogans. The threats to annihilate a people and a nation are voiced in the shadow of weapons of mass-destruction [...]”
[Israeli President Shimon Peres, speech on the International Holocaust Remembrance Day, Germany’s Parliament Bundestag, Berlin, 27 January 2010] [4]
“We cannot allow this to be repeated. We, means the whole civilized world. We cannot allow those who wish to perpetrate mass death, those who call for the destruction of the Jewish people or the Jewish state, to go unchallenged. […] [T]he most important thing to do is to nip it at the bud.”
[Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, speech at the Axel Springer publishing house, Berlin, 27 August 2009] [5]
“The Holocaust is […] an eternal responsibility of our country, and part of a basic tenet of our policy […] is to defend Israel always, […] and that is why we feel so responsible now also as regards Iran.”
[Germany’s Prime Minister Angela Merkel, joint press conference with the Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu, Berlin, 27 August 2009] [6]
“There are clocks ticking all around. One of those clocks is the uranium enrichment clock, which will show that by a certain date the Iranians will have sufficient, highly enriched uranium materials to create a bomb that could literally wipe Israel off the map in a matter of seconds.”
[Israeli Ambassador to the US Michael Oren, Aspen Ideas Festival, Colorado, 3 July 2009] [7]
“When you see the gas chambers, the concentration camps, […] it makes you absolutely determined that we should not ever allow this to happen again.”
[UK Prime Minister Gordon Brown, interview at the Auschwitz-Birkenau concentration camp, 28 April 2009] [8]
“How do we ensure that ‘never again’ isn’t an empty slogan, or merely an aspiration, but also a call to action?”
[US President Barack Obama, Holocaust Remembrance Day ceremony, United States Capitol, Washington D.C., 23 April 2009] [9]
“France will always stand shoulder to shoulder with Israel when her security and existence are threatened. […] And those who call scandalously for Israel’s destruction will always find France in their way, blocking the path.”
[France’s President Nicholas Sarkozy, speech at the Israeli Parliament Knesset, Jerusalem, 23 June 2008] [10]
________________
notes:
[1] Admiral Mullen Visits Yad Vashem Holocaust Museum
Israel Defense Forces website, 15 February 2010
[2] U.S Army Chief: “Iran attack option on the table”
Israel Defense Forces website, 14 February 2010
[3] Visit of Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi at Yad Vashem
Yad Vashem (Holocaust Museum) website, 1 February 2010
[4] Address by President Peres at the German Bundestag
Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs website, 27 January 2010
[5] PM Benjamin Netanyahu’s Speech at Axel Springer, Berlin, Germany
(Israeli) Prime Minister’s Office website, 27 August 2009
[6] Joint Press Conference of PM Netanyahu and Chancellor of Germany, Angela Merkel in Berlin
(Israeli) Prime Minister’s Office website, 27 August 2009
[7] Israel US ambassador warns of Iranian bomb
by Yitzak Benhorin, Ynetnews, 3 July 2009
[8] PM’s words at the Auschwitz-Birkenau concentration camp
Number 10 (UK Prime Minister’s Office) website, 29 April 2009
[9] Remarks by the President at the Holocaust Days of Remembrance Ceremony
The White House website, 23 April 2009
[10] Speech by M. Nicolas Sarkozy, President of the Republic, to the Knesset
Embassy of France in Washington website, 23 June 2008
_______________________
dandelion salad
Homepage:
http://dandelionsalad.wordpress.com/2010/02/15/us-army-chief-we-are-obligated-to-make-sure-that-the-holocaust-will-never-happen-again/
Full text of President Ahmadinejad's speech before the UN General Assembly
26.09.2010 11:10
Address by H.E. Dr. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, President of the Islamic Republic of Iran
before the 65th Session of the United Nations General Assembly
New York, 23 September 2010
Mr. President, Excellencies, Ladies and Gentlemen,
I am grateful to the Almighty God who granted me the opportunity to appear before this world assembly once again. I wish to begin by commemorating those who lost their lives in the horrible flood in Pakistan and express my heartfelt sympathy with the families who lost their loved ones as well as with the people and the government of Pakistan. I urge everyone to assist their fellow men and women as a humane duty.
Let me thank H.E. Mr. Ali Abdussalam Treki, the President of the the sixty- fourth session of the United Nations General Assembly, for all his efforts during his tenure. I also would like to congratulate H.E. Mr. Joseph Deiss, the President of the sixty-fifth session of the United Nations General Assembly and wish him all success.
In the past years, I spoke to you about some of the hopes and concerns, including family crises, security, human dignity, world economy, climate change as well as the aspiration for justice and lasting peace.
After about one hundred years of domination, the system of Capitalism and the existing world order has proved to be unable to provide appropriate solution to the problems of societies, thus coming to an end. I shall try to examine the two main causes of this failure and picture some features of the ideal future order.
A) Attitudes and Beliefs
As you are well aware, the divine prophets had the mission to call everyone to monotheism, love and justice and show mankind the path to prosperity. They invite men to contemplation and knowledge in order to better appreciate the truth and to avoid atheism and egoism. The very nature of the message of all prophets is one and the same. Every messenger endorsed the messenger before him and gave glad tidings about the prophet to come, and presented a more complete version of the religion in accordance with the capacity of the man at the time. This continued up to the last messenger of God who presented the perfect and all inclusive religion.
In opposition to that, the egotist and the greedy stood up against this clear call, revolting against the message.
Nimrod countered Hazrat Abraham, Pharaoh countered Hazrat Moses and the greedy countered Hazrat Jesus Christ and Hazrat Mohammad (Peace be upon them all). In the recent centuries, the human ethics and values have been rejected as a cause for backwardness. They were even portrayed as opposing wisdom and science because of the earlier infliction on man by the proclaimers of religion in the dark ages of the West
Man's disconnection from Heaven detached him from his true self.
Man with his potentials for understanding the secrets of the universe, his instinct for seeking truth, his aspirations for justice and perfection, his quest for beauty and purity and his capacity to represent God on earth was reduced to a creature limited to the materialistic world with a mission to maximize individualistic pleasures. Human instinct, then, replaced true human nature.
Human beings and nations were considered rivals and the happiness of an individual or a nation was defined in collision with, and elimination or suppression of others. Constructive evolutionary cooperation was replaced with a destructive struggle for survival.
The lust for capital and domination replaced monotheism which is the gate to love and unity.
This widespread clash of the egoist with the divine values gave way to slavery and colonialism. A large portion of the world came under the domination of a few western States. Tens of millions of people were taken to slavery and tens of millions of families were shattered as a result. All the resources, the rights and the cultures of the colonized nations were plundered. Lands were occupied and the indigenous people were humiliated and mass- murdered.
Yet, nations rose up, colonialism was alienated and the independence of the nations was recognized. Thus, the hope for respect, prosperity and security was revived amongst nations. In the beginning of the past century nice talks about freedom, human rights and democracy created hopes for healing the deep wounds of the past. Today, however, not only those dreams are not realized, but memories, even at times worse than before, have been recorded.
As a result of the two World Wars, the occupation of Palestine, the Korean and the Vietnam's Wars, the Iraqi war against Iran, the occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq as well as many wars in Africa, hundreds of millions of people were killed, wounded or displaced.
Terrorism, illicit drugs, poverty and the social gaps increased. The dictatorial and coup d'etat governments in Latin America committed unprecedented crimes with the support of the West.
Instead of disarmament, the proliferation and stockpiling of nuclear, biological and chemical weapons expanded, putting the world under a bigger threat. As a result, the very same old goals of colonialists and the slave masters were, this time round, pursued with a new facade.
B) The Global Management and Ruling Structures
The League of Nations and, then, the United Nations were established with the promise to bring about peace, security and the realization of human rights, which in fact meant a global management.
One can analyze the current governance of the world by examining three events:
First, the event of the II September 2001 which has affected the whole world for almost a decade.
All of a sudden, the news of the attack on the twin towers was broadcast using numerous footages of the incident.
Almost all governments and known figures strongly condemned this incident.
But then a propaganda machine came into full force; it was implied that the whole world was exposed to a huge danger, namely terrorism, and that the only way to save the world would be to deploy forces into Afghanistan.
Eventually Afghanistan, and shortly thereafter Iraq were occupied.
Please take note:
It was said that some three thousands people were killed on the II September for which we are all very saddened. Yet, up until now, in Afghanistan and Iraq hundreds of thousands of people have been killed, millions wounded and displaced and the conflict is still going on and expanding.
In identifying those responsible for the attack, there were three viewpoints. 1- That a very powerful and complex terrorist group, able to successfully cross all layers of the American intelligence and security, carried out the attack. This is the main viewpoint advocated by American statesmen.
2- That some segments within the U.S. government orchestrated the attack to reverse the declining American economy and its grips on the Middle East in order also to save the Zionist regime.
The majority of the American people as well as other nations and politicians agree with this view.
3- It was carried out by a terrorist group but the American government supported and took advantage of the situation. Apparently, this viewpoint has fewer proponents.
The main evidence linking the incident was a few passports found in the huge volume of rubble and a video of an individual whose place of domicile was unknown but it was announced that he had been involved in oil deals with some American officials. It was also covered up and said that due to the explosion and fire no trace of the suicide attackers was found.
There remain, however, a few questions to be answered:
1- Would it not have been sensible that first a thorough investigation should have been conducted by independent groups to conclusively identify the elements involved in the attack and then map out a rational plan to take measures against them?
2- Assuming the viewpoint of the American government, is it rational to launch a classic war through widespread deployment of troops that led to the death of hundreds of thousands of people to counter a terrorist group?
3- Was it not possible to act the way Iran countered the Riggi terrorist group who killed and wounded 400 innocent people in Iran. In the Iranian operation no innocent person was hurt.
It is proposed that the United Nations set up an independent fact-finding group for the event of the II September so that in the future expressing views about it is not forbidden.
I wish to announce here that next year the Islamic Republic of Iran will host a conference to study terrorism and the means to confront it. I invite officials, scholars, thinkers, researchers and research institutes of all countries to attend this conference.
Second, is the occupation of the Palestinian territories
The oppressed people of Palestine have lived under the rule of an occupying regime for 60 years, been deprived of freedom, security and the right to self- determination, while the occupiers are given recognition. On a daily basis, the houses are being destroyed over the heads of innocent women and children. People are deprived of water, food and medicine in their own homeland. The Zionists have imposed five all-out wars on the neighboring countries and on the Palestinian people.
The Zionists committed the most horrible crimes against the defenseless people in the wars against Lebanon and Gaza.
The Zionist regime attacked a humanitarian flotilla in a blatant defiance of all international norms and kills the civilians.
This regime which enjoys the absolute support of some western countries regularly threatens the countries in the region and continues publicly announced assassination of Palestinian figures and others, while Palestinian defenders and those opposing this regime are pressured, labeled as terrorists and anti Semites. All values, even the freedom of expression, in Europe and in the United States are being sacrificed at the altar of Zionism.
Solutions are doomed to fail because the right of the Palestinian people is not taken into account.
Would we have witnessed such horrendous crimes if instead of recognizing the occupation, the sovereign right ofthe Palestinian people had been recognized?
Our unambiguous proposition is the return of the Palestinian refugees to their home land and the reference to the vote of the people of Palestine to exercise their sovereignty and decide on the type of governance.
Third, is the nuclear energy
Nuclear energy is clean and cheap and a heavenly gift which is amongst the most suitable alternatives to cut the pollutions emanating from fossil fuels.
The Non- Proliferation Treaty (NPT) allows all member States to use nuclear energy without limits and the International Atomic Energy Agency is mandated to provide member States with technical and legal support.
The nuclear bomb is the worst inhumane weapon and which must totally be eliminated. The NPT prohibits its development and stockpiling and calls for nuclear disarmament.
Nonetheless, note what some of the permanent members of the Security Council and nuclear bomb holders have done:
They have equated nuclear energy with the nuclear bomb, and have distanced this energy from the reach of most of nations by establishing monopolies and pressuring the IAEA. While at the same time, they have continued to maintain, expand and upgrade their own nuclear arsenals.
This has entailed the following:
Not only the nuclear disarmament has not been realized but also nuclear bombs have been proliferated in some regions, including by the occupying and intimidating Zionist regime.
I would like here to propose that the year 20II be proclaimed the year of nuclear disarmament and 'Nuclear Energy for all, Nuclear Weapons for None'.
In all these cases the United Nations has been unable to take any effective course of action. Unfortunately, in the decade proclaimed as the 'International Decade for the Culture of Peace' hundreds of thousands were killed and injured as a result of war, aggression and occupation, and hostilities and antagonism increased.
Ladies and Gentlemen,
Very recently the world witnessed the ugly and inhumane act of burning the Holy Quran.
The Holy Quran is the Divine Book and the eternal miracle of the Prophet of lslam. It calls for worshipping the One God, justice, compassion toward people, development and progress, reflection and thinking, defending the oppressed and resisting against the oppressors; and it names with respect the previous Messengers of God, like Noah, Abraham, Isaaq, Joseph, Moses and Jesus Christ (Peace be Upon them all) and endorses them.. They burned Quran to bum all these truths and good judgments. However, the truth could not be burned. Quran is eternal because God and truth are everlasting. This act and any other act which widens the gap and distances between nations is evil. We should wisely avoid playing into the hands of Satan. On behalf o f the Iranian nation I pay respect to all Divine Books and their followers. This is the Quran and this is the Bible. I pay respect to both o f them.
Esteemed Friends,
For years the inefficiency of the capitalism and the existing world management and structures has been exposed and the majority of States and nations have been on a quest for fundamental changes and for the prevalence of justice in global relations.
The cause of the United Nation's ineptitude is in its unjust structure. Major power is monopolized in the Security Council due to the veto privilege, and the main pillar of the Organization, namely the General Assembly, is marginalized.
In the past several decades, at least one of the permanent members of the Security Council has always been a party to the disputes.
The veto advantage grants impunity to aggression and occupation; How could, therefore, one expect competence while both the judge and the prosecutor are a party to the dispute?
Had Iran enjoyed veto privilege, would the Security Council and the IAEA Director General have taken the same position in the nuclear issue?
Dear Friends,
The United Nations is the key center for coordinating the common global management. Its structure needs to be reformed in a manner that all independent States and nations be able to participate in the global governance actively and constructively.
The veto privilege should be revoked and the General Assembly should be the highest body and the Secretary-General should be the most independent official and all his positions and activities should be taken with the approval of the General Assembly and should be directed towards promoting justice and eliminating discrimination.
The Secretary-General should not come under pressure from powers and/or the country hosting the Organization for his stating the truth and administration of justice.
It is suggested that the General Assembly should, within one year and in the framework of an extraordinary session, finalize the reformation of the Organization's structure.
The Islamic Republic of Iran has clear suggestions in this regard and stands ready to participate actively and constructively in the process.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I announce clearly that the occupation of other countries under the pretext of freedom and democracy is an unforgivable crime.
The world needs the logic of compassion and justice and inclusive participation instead oflogic offorce, domination, unilateralism, war and intimidation.
The world needs to be governed by virtuous people like the Divine Prophets.
The two vast geographical spheres, namely Africa and Latin America, have gone through historic developments during the past decades. The new approaches in these two continents, which are based on increasing level of integration and unity as well as on localizing the growth and development models, have born considerable fruits to the 'peoples of those regions. The awareness and wisdom of the leaders of these two continents has overcome the regional problems and crises without the domineering interference of non-regional powers.
The Islamic Republic of Iran has expanded its relations with the Latin America and Africa in all aspects in recent years.
And about the glorious Iran,
The Tehran Declaration was a hugely constructive step in confidence building efforts which was made possible through the admirable good will by the governments of Brazil and Turkey along with the sincere cooperation of the Iranian government. Although the Declaration received inappropriate reaction by some and was followed by an unlawful resolution, it is still valid.
We have observed the regulations of the IAEA more than our commitments, yet, we have never submitted to illegally imposed pressures nor will we ever do so.
It has been said that they want to pressure Iran into a dialogue. Well, firstly, Iran has always been ready for a dialogue based on respect and justice. Secondly, methods based on disrespecting nations have long become ineffective. Those who have used intimidation and sanctions in response to the clear logic of the Iranian nation are in real terms destroying the remaining credibility of the Security Council and the trust of nations for this body, proving once and again how unjust is the function of the Council.
When they threaten a great nation such as Iran which is known throughout history for its scientists, poets, artists and philosophers and whose culture and civilization is synonymous to purity, submission to God and seeking justice, how can they ever expect that other nations grow confidence on them?
It goes without saying that domineering methods in managing the world has failed. Not only has the era of slavery and colonialism and dominating the world passed, the path to the reviving old Empires are blocked, too.
We have announced that we stand ready for a serious and free debate with the American Statesmen to express our transparent views on issues of importance to the world in this very venue.
It is proposed here that in order to have a constructive dialogue, an annual free debate be organized within the General Assembly.
In conclusion,
Friends and Colleagues,
The Iranian nation and the majority of the world's nations and governments are against the current discriminatory management of the world.
The inhumane nature of this management has put it at a dead-end and requires a major overhaul.
Reforming the world's affairs and bringing about tranquility and prosperity requires the participation of all, pure thoughts and the divine and humane management.
We are all of the idea that:
Justice is the basic element for peace, durable security and the spread of love among peoples and nations. It is in the justice that mankind seeks the realization o f his aspirations, rights and dignity, since he is wary of oppression, humiliation and ill treatment.
The true nature of mankind is manifested in the love for other fellow humans and love for all the good in the world. Love is the best foundation for establishing relation amongst people and amongst nations.
As Vahshi Bafqi, the great Iranian poet, says: 'From the fountain of youth, drink thousand sips Y ou'll still die if you don't have love's grip'
In making a world full of purity, safety and prosperity people are not rivals but companions.
Those who see their happiness but in the sorrow of others and their welfare and safety but in others' insecurity, those who see themselves superior to others, are out of the path of humanity and are in evil's course.
Economy and materialistic means are only some tools to serve others, to create friendship and strengthen human connections for spiritual perfection. They are not tools for show-off or means of dominating others.
Men and women complements each other and family unit with pure, loving and long-lasting relation of the spouses in its center is the guarantee for the continuity and the bringing up generations, for true pleasures, for spreading love and for reforming of the societies.
Woman is a reflection of God's beauty and is the source of love and caring. She is the guardian o f purity and exquisiteness o f the society.
The tendency to toughen the souls and behaviors of women deprives them from their very basic right of being a loving mother and a caring wife. It would result in a more violent society with irreversible defects.
Freedom is a divine right that should serve peace and human perfection.
Pure thoughts and the will of the righteous are keys to the gates of a pure life full of hope, liveliness and beauty.
This is the promise of God that the earth will be inherited by the pure and the righteous. And the people free from selfishness will take up the management of the world. Then, there will be no trace of sorrow, discrimination, poverty, insecurity and aggression. The time for true happiness and for the blossoming of the true nature of humankind, the way God has intended, will arrive.
All those seeking for justice and all the free spirits have been waiting for this moment and have promised such glorious time.
The complete human, the true servant of God and the true friend of the mankind whose father was from the generation of the beloved Prophet of Islam and whose mother was from the true believers of the Jesus Christ, shall wait along with Jesus the son of Marry and the other righteous to appear on those brilliant times and assist the humanity.
In welcoming them we should join ranks and seek justice.
Praise to Love and worship, praise to justice and freedom, praise to the true humanity, the complete human, the true companion of the humankind and peace be upon you and all the righteous and the pure.
Thank you.
dandelion salad
Homepage:
http://dandelionsalad.wordpress.com/2010/09/23/mahmoud-ahmadinejads-speech-at-the-united-nations-transcript-sept-23-2010-2/
never again nazis
26.09.2010 11:36
anon
Not an effective defense?
26.09.2010 12:00
You are saying that he didn't say "Israel must be wiped off the face of the map" (now, this current instance of Zionism) because he said it must be so for all time (and any future instance of Zionism).
At least, unlike some of you he recognizes that the Jews have a long history and this current recovery of their homeland isn't the first time. Which of course he should since it was under ancient Persia that the first Zionist return took place.
The job of diplomatic translators isn't to be literal word for word but to convey the intended meaning and weight of words. Are you suggesting that "wiped off the map" was an unacceptable equivalent for "wiped out of history"? If anything, that is a more moderate equivalent of what was said but that too could be appropriate if Farsi expressions tend to overstate. I remember back during the "Cuba Missile Crisis" (and yes, I'm that age) listening to the UN speeches and noting the translators removing the obscentities from the Russian representative's speech and substituting non obscene insult and replacing Stevenson's icy insult with the proper amount of obscentity to be good Russian (Russian would call for a certain amount of obscenity to carry the weight of the insult).
MDN
Prevent another Holocaust...BOMB IRAN!
26.09.2010 13:26
Prevent another Holocaust...BOMB IRAN!
High resolution version:
Latuff
e-mail:
carlos.latuff@gmail.com
Homepage:
http://latuff2.deviantart.com/gallery
If ...
26.09.2010 17:23
alka
The rumor of the century, fabricated by the US media
26.09.2010 18:17
Huh? I thought this had been fabricated, then we're told ... cognitive dissonance strikes again
alka
Who cares.
26.09.2010 23:42
Doesn't matter how it was made, what's important is how it is being disseminated.
Despite the truth being know for ages, Israeli and US war stooges are still using the quote to farm opinion for war with Iran.
Which is what the article is actually about.
The cognitive dissonance is all yours!
Namibia
Op-Ed
26.09.2010 23:53
He has set the record straight, on numerous occasions, but he is often interviewed by those who simply have no interest in listening to what he has to say.
I think they are called journalists although you wouldn't know it from their 'journalism'!
But I'm being unfair of course. I'm sure most journalists are decent sorts, its just that some of them...
anon
Setting the record dtraight
27.09.2010 08:59
Why not give a direct answer if it is such a fabrication? If he doesn't, people will assume he is standing by that quote.
alka
Is that...
27.09.2010 11:06
Is that why the Iranian state media publishes articles by Nick Kollerstrom about how the Holocaust never happened?
Is that why the Iranian state has conferences about how the Holocaust never happened? And invites neo-Nazis and KKKers from around the world?
Is that why they run cartoon competions to mock Holocaust victims?
Is that why Achmedinejad routinely talks about how the Holocaust never happened?
Iran is run by a bunch of Nazis. Defend the Iranian state, you defend Nazis.
anon
Nelly says 'not in my name'.
27.09.2010 11:35
Well you could post evidence for this, couldn't you? Instead of just telling us that is what he said.
Given the obvious 'journalism' which has been 'used' to report that he wishes to see 'Israel wiped off the map', could it be possible that comments he supposedly made about the Holocaust have been twisted and 'objectified' by the very same 'journalists'?
Could that be possible do you think?
Nelly the Elephant.
holocaust denial
27.09.2010 12:23
alka
only either or - nothing else
27.09.2010 12:58
no thanks
do not intend to let a bunch of proven liars, racists, jewish supremacists and haters set the limits of debate
won't equivicate between the devil and the deep
a plague on both your houses
zionists and nazies fell in love, drafted a plan for a ghetto for all and set about killing, invading and dividing
no thanks
holocaust is a jewish religious concept
genocide, mass murder and tyranny are a universal experience
shame on any and all that buy into them
flatland
@flatland
27.09.2010 13:22
That might just be the craziest stack of shit I've seen in a month.
No, history isn't decided by a big Zionist conspiracy. History is decided on the basis of the weight of the historical evidence, which overwhelmingly demonstrates that the version of the Holocaust Ahmadinejad is trying to sell is utter crap.
But as long as you remain ignorant of history, you'll spew the kind of crap you just did.
nonny
Flat Land or Flat Earth?
27.09.2010 14:08
alka
Yeah but no but yeah but no but...
27.09.2010 14:34
No more crap than what we are being sold over Iran and its big bogeyman nuclear weapons!
History is bunk anyway.
I read a book recently written by a former submarine commander in the Royal Navy who casually illustrates that while Britain was sailing in the English channel with rowing boats, and the monarch of England was sitting in his flea-bitten stone hut palace, the chinese were mapping the Antarctic with huge treasure fleets. They had mapped the Eastern Coast of the America's 300 years before Columbus was born.
But who discovered America, yeah, Christopher Columbus.
His-story, Her-story, its all bunk.
Of course the Holocaust clearly happened. But is the 6 million dead Jews anymore important than the 14 million dead on the Eastern Front?
In the West we have some very strange and biased views about what is fact and what is convenient geo-political fact.
Most of it drawn from people who use history as weapon rather than enlightenment.
And Alka, you seem obsessed with taking sides! Does it really matter what Ahmadinejad has said about the Holocaust. Does anybody really care that much?
Tell us why you think this so appalling!
Alter Alka
yeah sure
27.09.2010 14:37
That's why the holocaust is the only interpretation of history to need the full weight of the law to prevent people from airing an alternative.
It's not as if anyone is surprised at the vehemence of the hysteria directed at any who dare to differ.
Stormfront is for nazies and zionists - like those in the EDL etc - so more your sort of thing. I'll take patient historical scientific analysis (in secret if I have to).
Nazi race laws and israeli race laws are exact copies
6 million is a kabbalistic spell, first cast during WW1
Stalin and his henchmen (including a whole lot of zionist jews) killed 10 times and more than nazies are accused of - see the yawns if you say otherwise
You're fakes and professional hysterics, not historians. I love winding your type up.
Flatland
Time to despair.
27.09.2010 14:50
Sigh. Yes. It was the cold blooded extermination of men, women and children on no other basis than their supposed ethnic origin. If you can't see the evil in that then you are a moral degenerate. Which puts you on a par with our friend from Iran.
You're right in one respect - Iran does not have nuclear weapons at the moment. However, the nuclear programme it is pursuing at the moment makes little sense other than in a weapons context. If you just wanted nuclear power, then there are much better ways of going about it.
For what it's worth, I reckon they're keeping their options open - the present programme makes it much easier to go for a bomb if they want to, but they haven't yet gone ahead. They're just milking the present situation for all its worth.
PS - here's a tip for you - just because a book's been published doesn't mean to say everything in it is true.
alka
Oh dear!
27.09.2010 18:51
Does that include books on the Holocaust?
When you speak...think first!
Alter Alka
Books and the Holocaust.
27.09.2010 19:17
Now, to get back to the original post: the quote was not fabricated by the US media.
Ahmadinejad is an attention seeker, and a very successful one, as his latest stunt at the UN demonstrates.
Perhaps whilst the UN is investigating 911, it could also set up a commission on election fraud and human rights abuses in Iran. But I don't think our slippery friend would go with that one.
Oh dear, dear dimwit.
Coffee break!
27.09.2010 20:05
Ahmadinejad is an attention seeker, and a very successful one, as his latest stunt at the UN demonstrates.
Perhaps whilst the UN is investigating 911, it could also set up a commission on election fraud and human rights abuses in Iran. But I don't think our slippery friend would go with that one."
Ah, at last, somebody who actually understands where we all are with this.
Well, no, you are quite right. The quote has not been fabricated by the US media. Instead it has been gently twisted, rotated and carefully encouraged into a nonsensical corner. You see, that is the way this particular style of media works. Don't lie outright, goodness, that would never do. Instead, wait for somebody else to lie, then ruthlessly and relentlessly report that instead.
Its a snivelling, very dubious and thoroughly dishonest imposter-media this.
Ahmadinejad is an attention seeker. Well your right about that too. You are also right that he is exceptionally successful at it. But, as ever, it is never sensible to see these things in isolation. The secret to his success, can only be understood by understanding what he is successful against. For that is clumsy, crude, stupid, dumb and now has no support among the international community at all. It claims universal consensus, while it is completely on its knee's.
I very much doubt that the international community will ever attempt a call for an investigation of 9/11. I very much doubt it would ever make an attempt at an investigation into human rights abuses and so-called election fraud in Iran. I very much doubt the international community will give too much credo to complaints of proliferation.
I would expect the international community to do what it always does...throw its hands in the air in frustration that the US, Israel, the UK and Iran will not stop making everybody's life a living bloody misery.
We'll be here this time next year, and the year after that too. We'll be here just as long as these antagonists are permitted to remain at close quarters with each other. That is of course, in the absence of something untoward happening to all of them in the interim.
Peace to you and your family.
Not so fast!
At last a thoughtful response
27.09.2010 20:53
'Instead, wait for somebody else to lie, then ruthlessly and relentlessly report that instead.'
I think it's more simplistic than that. The journalists have got a quote; they use it. They have neither the time nor the inclination to delve further into it. And for 99% of journalists, all these quotes are 'throwaways', quick shorthand to use when space is short and attention spans shorter.
alka
Biscuit anyone?
27.09.2010 22:18
Certainly the case for inexperienced journalists but certainly not the case for experienced journalists.
For the experienced journalist, its no big thing to recognise 'Hasbara' for instance and write accordingly. In Israel, you can travel to the country and train to use Hasbara which then allows you to not only write with it in mind, but to recognise its use elsewhere.
Once learned, Hasbara can then be used liberally with ease. The apparent 'accuracy' it presents, is in actual fact little more than industry similarity. The more journalists who use it, the more 'conformity' it appears to reveal.
In the US, Hasbara is used routinely across most major media. To read most major US media you can often be forgiven for thinking that the world seems a remarkably consistent place, despite the fact it clearly isn't. On issues surrounding Israel, the world can become astonishingly consistent. What is published in one place, appears in another place over and over again.
It is when the errors are exposed, but the reporting of those errors continues regardless, that the underlying 'pattern' emerges into the public realm and some underlying 'agenda' is then detected..
The idea of 'pushed for time' journalists struggling against the clock making errors as they go along is tempting, even seductive, but ultimately not realistic as an explanation.
Mr Ahmadinejad is coherently aware of the way the western media now works, and is skillfully aware of its logic. He is able to travel to the US and meet with who he needs to, give interviews freely, fully confident that he has an answer for every question and a tactic for every interview 'style'.
Ahmadinejad's greatest ally right now, is public mistrust and wariness of the media.
The people are not stupid, and neither is Ahmadinejad.
Not so fast.
not even slow
27.09.2010 23:21
Your paranoia is showing again.
alka
Oh you dropped your napkin, allow me!
28.09.2010 00:17
Excellent, another nail struck cleanly.
Not so fast.
translation
28.09.2010 06:03
translator
Paranoia is a mental illness
28.09.2010 08:59
alka
Next nail...
28.09.2010 09:30
Scrub the word Jew, and replace it with Zionist and you will be closer to the truth. Always remember, that we are not anti-semitic. Modern anti-semitism is another Zionist flaw...as is its paranoia whenever challenged. You are right, paranoia IS a mental illness and you can get treatment for it. Difficult to see how you would go about administering clinical treatment to the Zionists though? Probably too expensive!
The Zionists targeting students:
The Zionists targeting the rest of the world:
"Israel's public diplomacy efforts are called hasbara in Hebrew.[1] Hasbara (Hebrew: הסברה), also spelt hasbarah, is a noun that literally means "explanation".[2][3] The term has been used by the State of Israel and by supporters of Israel to describe their efforts to explain Israeli government policies, and to promote Israel to the world at large. Detractors view hasbara as a euphemism for propaganda"
Not so fast.
Troofer assertions
28.09.2010 10:11
No one's disputing Hasbara might exist, but as usual, you make sweeping assertions ('In the US, Hasbara is used routinely across most major media.') without offering the slightest bit of supporting evidence.
If you're going to make such assertions, and if you want to be taken seriously [as opposed to someone who's just raving], you need to back them up with some form of tangible proof.
alka
Not so fast.
28.09.2010 11:08
That's right Alka, no-one is disputing that Hasbara exists. You've got that right. There is no 'might' about it.
So what's your problem?
Not so fast.
I don't have a problem - you have a problem
28.09.2010 12:07
Then you wonder why people treat you like nut cases.
alka
Nutcases eh?
28.09.2010 12:19
And the nutcase'ry in question, brought to you by none other than the Jerusalem Post's deputy managing editor Caroline Glick, Hasbara specialist and 'journalist'!
Not so fast.
this problem of yours
28.09.2010 13:35
Really, there are excellent doctors who would like to help you overcome this problem and live a full and complete life.
non
not fooled
28.09.2010 13:52
Another unproved and highly questionable assertion from your buckets of same.
assertions r u
@Alka.
28.09.2010 14:02
Another nail...bang.
By the way, if you watch the youtube video again here:
...but this time listen to the lyrics, and understand that that they are simply singing about themselves and their 'glorious leadership', then you will finally understand the truth.
Nazi's minus the uniforms.
Not so fast.
the double dance
28.09.2010 14:13
Except not. It's unfortunately become comparatively common on the so-left-its-right to refurbish the usual memes of anti-semitism, with the word "Zionist" hastily scribbled over the word "Jew." The assertion of Jewish media control was already old hat when the "Protocols" was written. But being up "Protocols" to the so-left-its-right and you'll get this peculiar double dance: they'll insist it's both false and somehow essentially true.
fast
not potty
28.09.2010 14:20
nail = fail
what's the difference anyhow?
28.09.2010 17:34
Yes we must need soviet psychiatric help if we refuse to believe in your fairy tails.
Did Christians invent zionism?
Do Muslims benefit from zionism?
Have Bhuddists acted out zionisms desires?
No and no and no.
Yes we must need that mental re-education you so cheerily bang on about whenever we stray from the story you tell.
Vivendi universal
AOL Time Warner
The Walt Disney corp
News corp
Viacom
Bertelsmann AG
A staggering 96% of all news - print, TV, Radio and internet 'wire' services
An unsurprising 100% owned by - er - it is forbidden to say.
Alka and co - forget them, endless repetitive remedial insulting dishonest hasbara distractionists.
You have seen israel murder women and children without mercy.
You have read 'The kings Torah' - which justifies it.
Now read the forgery called the 'Protocols' - which simply can't be true just because it describes things as the way the are and have been.
Zionism tells you what's true and good and the gulags for those who dissent (100 million dead goy will attest).
Blah blah blah - I have hurt their feelings
A last word from my dead mouth:
"Kill! Kill! In the German race there is nothing but evil; not one among the living, not one among the yet unborn but is evil! Follow the precepts of Comrade Stalin. Stamp out the fascist beast once and for all in its lair! Use force and break the racial pride of these German women. Take them as your lawful booty. Kill! As you storm onward, kill, you gallant soldiers of the Red Army."
Ilya Ehrenburg
And talking of 96%
28.09.2010 17:58
But who am I - look me up, for I am dead now, it can do no harm.
Lazar Kaganovich
summary
28.09.2010 22:51
...The proper response, when asked to distinguish between Jews and Zionists, is 'what's the difference anyhow?'
...Jews own 96% of the news media, and 96% of Jews aren't really Jewish.
...And 'Protocols,' that famous anti-semitic forgery even Hitler couldn't top in mad-hatter anti-semitism, 'describes things as the way the are'.
...And 'the Zionists' sent people to the Soviet gulags.
Is there anything else you'd like to add, Herr Göbbels?
But because you have mentioned the magic word 'zionism', ftp will be rendered bat-blind and absolutely unable to find anything wrong with your post. His eyes will sparkle with joy at your ability to Name The -- er Zionist, just like Israel Shamir, ftp's Holocaust-denying mentor (Shamir on the Holocaust: 'I think it is the duty of every Muslim and Christian to deny the Holocaust'; indymedia editor ftp on Shamir: 'I was impressed by his passion for justice'.)
Thank you, ftp, for your valiant battle at Notts to keep IMC-UK safe for anti-Semites. This thread is what you are reaping. Of course, you probably can't see anything wrong with any of these posts, can you?
not a raging jew-hater
OMG!!!!
28.09.2010 23:55
OMG!!!!!
Its true, they're singing about themselves!!!!!!!!
Listen to it again but shut yr eyes
sally anne
Just the one message
29.09.2010 06:53
Just flick through the list of people who have been called 'anti-semitic' in the ### owned press throughout the past 150 years, there you will find a complete list of every free thinker, champion of human rights and humanist philosopher and artist/writer - from Desmond Tutu to JK Rowling.
Any document - from the Protocols to the Goldstone report that does not toe the line of absolute subjugation to the chosen outlook is castigated in the same way.
Every forum, chat room, letters page, town hall meeting is populated by the useful idiots whose only concern is to ensure that their 'friends' receive no criticism, suffer from no judgement and are subject to no scrutiny - and damn any other concern, life or death to child or beast alike.
Go wave your bare arse in the wind you gentile hater.
"When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, 'This you may not read, this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know,' the end result is tyranny and oppression, no matter how holy the motives. Mighty little force is needed to control a man whose mind has been hoodwinked; contrariwise, no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything--you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." --Robert A. Heinlein, If This Goes On, 1940
Solomon Morel
Plenty wrong with these posts.
29.09.2010 11:20
I can see shit loads wrong with these posts. The unfounded and unjustified accusations of anti-semitism being just one!
The unfounded and unjustified accusations that to criticise the brutal Israeli state and its self declared propaganda machine amounts to mental illness. So so so wrong.
This is equivelant to calling an anti-Capitalist un-American or calling an anti-fascist anti-German.
The argument itself is deranged.
I am against the brutal self identified Zionist state of Israel, its supporters and its Government. I am against its propaganda machine.
I am not against Jews.
But I recognise that the Zionists are a deeply disturbed group. Their primary tactic is...if you criticise us, the Jews will get it!
Which is only ever to be utterly deplored.
Proud (and happy) anti-Zionist.
Proud and deluded.
29.09.2010 11:41
Unfortunately, you do seem to be barking, and you do give the appearance - protestations aside - of being deeply anti-Semitic. You may not think that, but that is the way your writings come over. Indeed, perhaps the lady doth protest too much.
So to get back to the original thread: Ahmadinejad's words appear to be ambiguous; the quote came from the official Iranian propaganda ministry; it was not invented by the US media; he has not denied the quote.
All of which goes to show that "Global Research" are talking out of their arses. Not only are their postings long, boring, tendentious, indigestible and inaccurate, they regularly get reposted ad nauseam. Perhaps that should be the motto of their website: Per iterum ad nauseam.
alka
not a crazy
29.09.2010 11:52
What's worse than an anti-semite? Is it the one who thinks that three pound-signs are sufficient to mask his anti-semitic claims, that as long as he only winks and nods and avoids using the word 'jew' he can't *possibly* be saying anything anti-semitic? Or is it the one who cynically pretends that those same three pound-signs really *do* prevent his anti-semitic claims from being anti-semitic?
'Any document - from the Protocols to the Goldstone report that does not toe the line of absolute subjugation to the chosen outlook is castigated in the same way. '
Yeah - the nerve of the Jews to call 'Protocols' anti-semitic!
Go ahead and tell us how 'Protocols' isn't anti-semitic. Dig yourself even deeper.
open your eyes
look closer
29.09.2010 12:01
If that's true, and you cannot see the raw anti-semitism in the above posts, you must have the worst reading comprehension in history, or you must simply have no clue what anti-semitism is. There's a guy here defending 'Protocols of the Elders of Zion,' a book every bit as infamous and anti-semitic as 'Mein Kampf.' That strike you as okay? Or is any anti-semitism, no matter how raw, simply an occasion for you do demonstrate your incomprehension of the topic?
closer look
On and on without change or variation
29.09.2010 13:18
The constant bleating of anti-semitism has to be the best weapon to use against the killer zionists - if only they had the imagination to realise how odious this constant stream of insult is.
Cold hard facts are hateful things in their eyes because they hate the truth.
Fact is, whether it's christians spouting creationism, muslims spouting jihad or jews spouting zionism - it's all poisonous teaching
Yes I will tell you that the protocols are NOT anti-semitic because a] they were written by non semitic jews and b] jews are not semites. Go figure. Bet you and the majority of those useful idiots (a phrase first coined by bolsheviks to describe their willing fanatical helpers in western institutions - people who the bolsheviks would have murdered en mass at the first opportunity in any post revolutionary situation) have never read this book you so hysterically condemn
Have this thread pulled, these words hidden, burn the books that tell a different story to the one you insist on, harrass, persecute and destroy those people who won't bend to your will or your self serving version of history - you will not prevail.
I am against jews and christians and muslims and every other god fearing bullshit merchant who thinks they have the right to rub out my life and work when it differs from their own vile polluted insanity.
I am filled with hatred for these destroyers of truth, seething with rage for their endless crimes against their fellows and deadly serious about not giving a damn for their word viruses and mind fucks
"Germany is the enemy of Judaism and must be pursued with deadly hatred. The goal of Judaism of today is: a merciless campaign against all German peoples and the complete destruction of the nation. We demand a complete blockade of trade, the importation of raw materials stopped, and retaliation towards every German, woman and child." (Jewish professor A. Kulischer, October, 1937
Elie Wiesel
thanx for franx
29.09.2010 13:43
Yes, that truly is your level of comprehension on the topic of anti-semitism. Your chest-pounding pseudo-Randian prose style is just icing on the cake. But who
would expect subtlety or depth -- or even competence -- from someone who turns to pulp science fiction authors for intellectual guidance?
'Yes I will tell you that the protocols are NOT anti-semitic because a] they were written by non semitic jews and b] jews are not semites. Go figure.'
Thank you for your frank confession that you haven't got the slightest idea what you're talking about. You are the first anti-semite I've seen on the net who didn't immediately concede the well-documented fact that 'Protocols' was faked by the Tsarist police and not written by Jews. That means you're not just an anti-semite - which is itself a form of extremism - but an extremist within the anti-semitic ranks.
The "Jews are not Semites" thing - well, every DNA study on the topic says you're wrong, but hey, it's not like you've got a reputation for telling the truth anyway.
I'm also happy that you're dispensing with the fig leaf that you are 'only against Zionism,' which is the tactic anti-semites tend to take here (see above). You make it quite clear that you hate Jews per se.
And, again, there was a time when that would have been sufficient to get you booted from Indymedia. Apparently that time has passed. The tragedy isn't you - though you are a pile of tragedies and the life ahead of you is obviously going to be a deeply unhappy one, ya pore thang - but Indymedia's continued collapse.
not barking
for lo
29.09.2010 14:11
... well, so on and so on for however many paragraphs you please. You can spin this stuff by the clothier's yard. It's meaningless and empty. It might impress a seventeen-year-old, but by the time you're twenty you can see right through it. And by the time you're twenty-three, it starts to make you say 'what the fuck kind of idiot does this guy think he's talking to.'
purpleproseman
You are not wrong.
29.09.2010 14:35
Genetic studies have shown conclusively that the majority of those calling themselves 'jew' have their origin in non semitic peoples - ie no where near Palestine, let alone this mythical entity called ancient israel. You can write and believe what you like, but you can't change the fact that khazars are their main genetic component.
Unlike you, I have read the Protocols and have followed closely the research of their origins. The lazy comfortable assumption that this document is either a forgery or written by Russian turn of the century spooks says more about the desire of zionists to hoodwink than it does about reality.
If you can be bothered do the research yourself. In the meanwhile reflect on the world around you and ask yourself how things became the way that they are. A tiny tiny % of people calling themselves 'jews' have you spread-eagled at the feet of their diseased and warped philosophy.
Find the 'kings torah' - it has been translated and is online - and read it. Read it now before they begin to tell you that that too is a forgery, rather than the work of their most religious scholars and expounds their utter contempt, hatred and dispicable desires for your subjugation.
To the zionists and tulmaldists here, do your worst, your days are numbered and running low.
Ariel Sharon
why
29.09.2010 14:38
not a confettimonger
Dunno genius
29.09.2010 15:27
Meanwhile ...
Boffinator
lie-buster
30.09.2010 00:58
Yep, I've read 'Protocols.' And is it so blatantly bogus from its first page that, in order to claim that you believe it's true, you'd either have to be the most gullible slackjaw imaginable, or a raging antisemite, or a really raging antisemite. I find it hard from your posts to rule any of these possibilities out in your case. It makes those spam emails from banks you don't even have accounts in positively shine with authenticity in contrast.
But it's also been known to be an utter fraud for the better part of a century. Check out a book called "Warrent for Genocide" by Norman Cohn for the facts. It's a good compilation of the history of the book, from the day the fiction was written. You'll hate "Warrant for Genocide" because of the way it shows with firm, solid evidence what complete liars people like you are. Pity the poor antisemite - ie. you - who has to pretend he thinks 'Protocols' isn't a fraud from the first paragraph, but is really actually authentic.
Speaking of complete liars, that would be you. Your claim that DNA studies show that most Jews are descended from the Mideast is both wrong and a lie. See for example: "Abraham’s Children in the Genome Era: Major Jewish Diaspora Populations Comprise Distinct Genetic Clusters with Shared Middle Eastern Ancestry.” Publishing in the American Journal of Human Genetics, June 11, 2010. That's, by the way, not some furtive little squid trembling anonymously in some corner of the internet, but a peer-reviewed scientific journal.
Here's the abstract: "For more than a century, Jews and non-Jews alike have tried to define the relatedness of contemporary Jewish people. Previous genetic studies of blood group and serum markers suggested that Jewish groups had Middle Eastern origin with greater genetic similarity between paired Jewish populations. However, these and successor studies of monoallelic Y chromosomal and mitochondrial genetic markers did not resolve the issues of within and between-group Jewish genetic identity. Here, genome-wide analysis of seven Jewish groups (Iranian, Iraqi, Syrian, Italian, Turkish, Greek, and Ashkenazi) and comparison with non-Jewish groups demonstrated distinctive Jewish population clusters, each with shared Middle Eastern ancestry, proximity to contemporary Middle Eastern populations, and variable degrees of European and North African admixture. Two major groups were identified by principal component, phylogenetic, and identity by descent (IBD) analysis: Middle Eastern Jews and European/Syrian Jews. The IBD segment sharing and the proximity of European Jews to each other and to southern European populations suggested similar origins for European Jewry and refuted large-scale genetic contributions of Central and Eastern European and Slavic populations to the formation of Ashkenazi Jewry. Rapid decay of IBD in Ashkenazi Jewish genomes was consistent with a severe bottleneck followed by large expansion, such as occurred with the so-called demographic miracle of population expansion from 50,000 people at the beginning of the 15th century to 5,000,000 people at the beginning of the 19th century. Thus, this study demonstrates that European/Syrian and Middle Eastern Jews represent a series of geographical isolates or clusters woven together by shared IBD genetic threads."
Catch that? The study 'refuted large-scale genetic contributions of Central and Eastern European and Slavic populations to the formation of Ashkenazi Jewry.'
That makes your claim that studies show the exact opposite of what they actually do - what is the word? oh yes - a lie.
Science speaks. It calls you a liar.
buster
question
30.09.2010 07:07
What is a tulmaldist?
not a tulmadlist
Nice try, but no medal.
30.09.2010 08:46
Yes we can all post abstracts, but what is more interesting is the fact that you could post no more than that. I guess you either refuse to pay the fee required to break into the actual data and discussed results or, you found yourself a little out of your depth.
What you fail to point out and which almost every study in this field does, is that the supposed homogenity of genetic heterozygosity, and phylogenetic componants is based on the analysis of just 2 family lines - both of the priestly cast (Levites and Cohens), ie those with the most freedom to travel and likelihood of acceptance within non homogenic jewish populations.
Further studies on the components of (larger) surveyed jewish groups has so far failed to demonstrate a common ancestry beyond that which can be traced to prehistoric eras - ie they share the same basic genetic lineal patterns as the indigenous people of whatever area is studied.
Also, it is noted in these studies that the genetic markers shared by these 2 familial groups is also shared by non jewish populations across the middle and far east, in such disparate groups as Kurds, Armenians, Italians, Palestinian Arab and even Persians - thus any conclusions based on these markers are crude at best and largely irrelevant at worst - their ancestors shagged your ancestors to put it in words more familiar to you.
I will concede the point that the Khazar link has yet to be put to any meaningful scientific test and that our understanding of the linkage - other than a basic and generalized knowledge - is still in its infancy.
Moving on, the notion that the Protocols is a 'forgery' is somewhat problematic - not least because the implication of forgery is in itself meaningless. What we can say about them is that they had an origin and that this origin lies further back that the oft repeated claim that it rests with the Tzarist police circa 1903.
In 1884 the daughter of a Russian general, Justine Glinka, was in Paris obtaining secret political information to be communicated back to Russia. She employed a Jewish assistant, Joseph Schorst, a member of the Miz-raim Lodge in Paris. Schorst offered to obtain for her a document of great importance to Russia, on payment of 2,500 francs.
She forwarded the French original, accompanied by a Russian translation, to the Tsar in St Petersburg, but it was suppressed by those under obligation to wealthy Jews. The Tsar never received it, and Glinka was eventually banished to her estate in Orel.
Glinka gave a copy to Alexis Sukhotin, who showed the document to two friends, Stepanov and Professor Sergius A. Nilus; the former had it printed and circulated privately in 1897; the second, Nilus, published it for the first time in Russia in 1901, in a book entitled The Great Within the Small.
In January 1917, Nilus prepared a second edition, revised and documented, for publication. But before it could be put on the market, the revolution of March 1917 had taken place, and Kerenskii, who had succeeded to power, ordered the whole edition of Nilus' book to be destroyed. In 1924, Prof. Nilus was arrested by the Cheka in Kiev, imprisoned, and tortured; he was told by the Jewish president of the court, that this treatment was meted out to him for "having done them incalculable harm in publishing the Protocols". Released for a few months, he was again led before the GPU (Cheka), this time in Moscow and confined. Set at liberty in February 1926, he died in exile in the district of Vladimir on January 13, 1929.
A few copies of Nilus's second edition were saved and sent to other countries where they were published: in Germany, by Gottfreid zum Beek (1919); in England, by The Britons (1920); in France, by Mgr. Jouin in La Revue Internationale des Societes Secretes, and by Urbain Gohier in La Vieille France; in the United States, by Small, Maynard & Co. (Boston 1920), and by The Beckwith Co. (New York 1921). Later, editions appeared in Italian, Russian, Arabic, and even in Japanese.
The Protocols gained widespread recognition upon their translation into English, in 1920. They soon became notorious. Esteemed newspapers such as The Times and The Morning Post (whose Moscow correspondent Victor E. Marsden was responsible in 1921 for the translation used in this document) covered the story in numerous articles, much to the chagrin of world Jewry, who immediately began the propaganda bandwagon rolling. They not only denied that the Protocols were a Jewish plot, but also that there was any plot whatsoever. The latter was quite clearly false to all educated men and women of the time.
When compared with the minutes of the Zionist international [Basle] congress in 1897 a notable similarity is observed, not only in style and wording, but in content and drift also. No doubt were a sophisticated textual analysis to be undertaken using modern computer software on all available copies in all available languages and held in comparison to these minutes and alongside other documents arising from the various jewish/masonic lodges of the time, then a more settled scientific consensus might be achieved. I am not aware of any such study.
Until that time, to rely on the shrill hysterical claims of the party most at pains to prove its insignificance and falsehood seems likely the worst possible basis for dismissing the document, further, such wild and fantastic attempts to discredit and debase those who keep an open mind on the possibilities gives further credence to the notion that something is not quite right with the popular opinion so comfortably endorsed by those who lack the means to 'prove' it one way or the other.
"Probably so much money and energy were never before in history expended on the effort to suppress a single document." The period of 1920 "marks the end of the time when the Jewish question could be impartially openly discussed in public." (Douglas Reed -- "The Controversy of Zion").
Bela Kun
Tulmald, Talmald Talmud takes yer pick
30.09.2010 09:01
A free commentary on the thing:
Not a talmuldist
quoting from Stormfront now, are you?
30.09.2010 14:04
It's been fun watching
'Genetic studies have shown conclusively that the majority of those calling themselves 'jew' have their origin in non semitic peoples'
turn into
'I will concede the point that the Khazar link has yet to be put to any meaningful scientific test and that our understanding of the linkage - other than a basic and generalized knowledge - is still in its infancy.'
In other words: the studies are so conclusive they conclude nothing - conclusively!
Actually, although you are of course constitutionally incapable of admitting it, the paper I cited did indeed put the Khazar bullshit to the scientific test, and the Khazar bullshit failed the test with flying colors. Sorry that one of your pet anti-semitic fantasies has been shown to be a fantasy. But I don't expect you to actually change your mind - after all, anti-semitism is inherently irrational, as are you. For all your chest-beating, you simply don't have the intellectual integrity to re-examine your beliefs in the light of cold fact.
And the paper, in turn, dissolves the foundation of your argument that 'Protocols' is not anti-semitic.
As for your cut-and-paste screed - that's just another sign of your intellectual bankruptcy. The reader can google any phrase from it - say 'Esteemed newspapers such as The Times and The Morning Post', the phrase I picked at random - and see that your idea of 'research' is just to repost big chunks of cut-and-paste sewage from hate sites like Stormfront without attribution. Yah, what a 'researcher' you are.
Ya pore thang, exposed again as nothing but a hate-drone. You came to this site and tried to present yourself as an intellectual, but all that's happened is that you have again and again exposed that your arguments are based in ignorance and bigotry. Your veneer isn't nearly as effective as you want to think it is. You have a serious case of Emperor's New Clothes, and yet you keep striding onward.
Now, please post some more of your easily exposed lies, so that I can continue to dissect your quite obvious racism joint by joint.
not a Stormfront reposter
ha ha charade you are
30.09.2010 14:14
Anti-semites are such geniuses, aren't they. Maybe I'm old-fashioned in this regard, but I'm not about to take any lessons on Talmud from someone who can't even spell it.
By the way, Michael Hoffman is one of those guys who makes a living giving speeches to racist audiences about how the Holocaust is a fraud. So he's obviously the go-to guy when it comes to Jewish topics, right?
Really, what the hell has Indymedia turned into? Quotes from Stormfront, links to essays by Holocaust deniers - are the editors simply asleep, or is there a new pro-anti-semitism policy here?
not a Holocaust-denier quoter
your so full of crap
30.09.2010 16:26
"The paper I cited"
You did no such thing, you copied and pasted from the web page that hosted the pre-amble - the paper is held behind a pay-wall and you cited none of it.
If the science is so inconclusive, why are you drawing any?
You seem to spend a lot of your time at stormfront (a place I never intend to visit) to know what is there and what is not. You have yet to put forward any cogent argument against the research offered to you, instead relying on the same old same old personal assault and defamation you think will persuade the casual reader (of which there must be none by now).
As for the issiue of spelling, the word is spelt in various ways according to when and where it is used - even by those who follow its creed - again, a case of piss poor understanding and research.
Intellectual integrity is a concept that you should take on board next time, when challenged, you question the mental health of your opponant.
Now just stop it and really do some research - unless you are ideologically committed to a particular point of view, in which case get stuffed you fake.
nathan rothschild
more moronics refuted
30.09.2010 20:19
I'm sorry your fourth form teachers failed their commission so badly that you cannot differentiate between 'your' and 'you're'. Presuming that you have reached fourth form.
Similarly, you seem unable to differentiate between citing a paper - that is, providing the journal publication data sufficient for an actual researcher to find the paper - and quoting the paper itself. You guys are really coming across as five flavors of idiot, do you know that?
'If the science is so inconclusive, why are you drawing any?'
If I understand your only partially coherent sentence accurately, you're (note: not 'your') asking, 'if the science is so inconclusive, why are you drawing any conclusions?' And the answer is that, erm, the science isn't inconclusive. Purveyors of the Khazar fantasy want to pretend it's inconclusive, because otherwise they'd be forced to admit their error. And when have you ever seen an anti-semite admit an error, especially over a belief which is so obviously so dear to them?
Here's more of the paper's conclusions:
"Within the study, each of the Jewish populations formed its own cluster as part of the larger Jewish cluster. Each group demonstrated Middle Eastern ancestry and variable admixture with European populations. This was observed in the structure plots and in the Fst analysis by the proximity of all Jewish populations one to another, to non-Jewish Middle Eastern populations, and to non-Jewish Southern European (French, Northern Italian, and Sardinian) populations. The patterns of relatedness were similar, albeit with higher resolution to what was reported in a recent study of fewer Jewish populations via microsatellite markers."
The American Journal of Human Genetics 86, 850–859, June 11, 2010, page 857. Hop over to a research library and have a look, if you aren't intellectually lazy. Oh, that's right, you're _incredibly_ intellectually lazy. Forgot for a moment.
'You seem to spend a lot of your time at stormfront'
You're (note: not 'your') really an idiot. Google the phrases I took from Herr Göbbels the plagiarist - or try 'In 1884 the daughter of a Russian general' since that's where his plagiarised segment starts - and you'll pull up a whole series of hate sites hosting the essay Herr Göbbels plagiarised from. One of them is Stormfront. Ergo, you don't need to go to the Stormfront site to see that they've got the essay Herr Göbbels the plagiarist was plagiarizing from. See how simple it is, Dr Watson?
'You have yet to put forward any cogent argument against the research offered to you'
Except to show, with direct citation from the scientific literature, that it is false. If you were less of an idiot, you'd stop barking.
Of course, if you're still wittering about the forgery 'Protocols', I've already given you an excellent history of 'Protocols' by Norman Cohn, making it quite clear that, no, 'Protocols' is in no way an authentic expression of Jews or Judaism, and was instead written by mingy little jew-haters for mingy little jew-haters. It's not my fault you couldn't handle the truth.
Incidentally, Herr Göbbels the plagiarist is quite wrong when he says the study I've cited isolates the Cohens and Aarons. It doesn't. Says so right in the paper itself, which I do have in its entirety and encourage Herr Göbbels the plagiarist to get off his swastika's ass and hie to a good library to read himself. It's quite funny watching him flailing around trying to shoot holes in a paper he hasn't even read - or at least trying to look like he has done so for the edification of the low-comprehension crowd (="tulmald").
'As for the issiue of spelling [sic], the word is spelt in various ways according to when and where it is used - even by those who follow its creed - again, a case of piss poor understanding and research.'
Hah! An utterly desperate argument. Some people spell aluminium 'aluminum'. Does that mean it's now acceptable to spell it 'quzyurb'? Do a quick Google search and see whether 'tulmald' is in anything like common usage. If 'tulmald' is anything other than an absolute fuckup, then we should pull down other people using it, right? Ooops! Turns out you're quite wrong. Just one guy named Rodkinson making a spelling error. But it's typical of the zonked-out anti-semite to try to cover a really dumb spelling error by pretending to be an expert in the orthography of Hebrew transliteration, with the idea that at least one reader might be dumb enough to take the bait or at least pretend that he had.
In other words, your argument is a desperate squirt of bullshit. Congratulations for living down to my expectations of you.
And I'll note that you apparently don't see spreading links to Holocaust deniers to be something to apologise for. After all, what's a little Nazi apologia here and there?
Incidentally, I'm not interested in replying to Herr Göbbels the anti-semitic plagiarist unless and until he acknowledges and apologises for his plagiarism.
still not a tulmaldist
You r so cute
01.10.2010 09:51
So I missssspelt a few tings - big deal. Had a long day. I work with adults with severe learning difficulties - one of the reasons I get mad at people casually throwing around the notion of mental illness whenever they hear/read/see something they don't like. I find it cruel in the extreme.
You don't fool me.
You lifted lock stock and barrel from the only publicly available source of that paper the abstract and then try to pass off yourself as an expert.
I am still making way through the paper, so allow me to correct you on one small thing: It concentrates only on the lineal genetic line of Cohens and Levites (not Aarons) .
We could ding dong all day throwing scientific citations at each other that we are both just as unlikely to either read fully or comprehend - an honest person would concede that there is still an argument to made and that the 'proof' your ideological position demands is non existent. The most that could be said is that the notion of a distinct jewish race is bunk, as is the concept of race itself. This does not stop the racist colonial haters of zionism and their useful idiots from postulating that their colonization of Palestine and the subjugation of the Palestinian people is based on a genetic manifest destiny. I note again that the race laws of israel are an exact copy of the race laws of nazi germany. I despise both sets - you are only 50% there (I also note that in genetic studies carried out on the Palestinian peoples, the conclusions are somewhat more firm - indicating that a large proportion of their ancestors have resided in the area unbroken for thousands of years - most likely they are the offspring of indigenous jewish populations that converted away from that particular outlook).
Again, the existence of research into the Protocols does not exonerate either position, but rather leaves doubts and ambiguities. You use these to propagate your own ideology (or rather that of the manifestly racist zionist international) at the expense of understanding.
If the most odious criminal ever suggests that the earth is round and a saint suggests that it is flat, do you believe that it is flat? Hitlerites and all shades of fascists have written many things that can't be disputed or at least have a basis in fact, acknowledging truth does not exonerate them. The research carried out on the Protocols appears all over the place, in all shade of political and religious outlook. I prefer to avoid those that glorify racism. That does not mean that the information itself is incorrect - to act so IS intellectually lazy (incidentally Mr Hoffman has many admirers among the jewish cults, does not espouse racism, refuses to engage with racists and has exemplary qualifications and a long history of publications. Do you?)
I despise organised religions as much as I do those who would enslave their fellow humans to an ideology that narrows the rewards down to a chosen few. Again, you are not yet there.
You may bleat and insult and bluster and hysterically point the show trial finger whenever you can not deal with reality, so be it. Don't expect to impress those with independent minds with your co-opted nonsense.
Moron
loser
forth form
five flavours of idiot
partially coherent
stormfront
herr göbbels
On and on your insults fly (that is not even the complete list in your short reply!) - and you expect to impress upon [us] your intellectual credentials???
Face it buddy, you ain't got the world in the palm of your hand, you don't have all the answers and attempting to stop up the mouths of those that disagree with you is pretty low, as is the base way you attempt to inject debating full stops into every piece you write - whether it be childish observations on spelling or unpleasant allusions to nasty ideologies. Your manner is entirely redolent of stalins show trail henchmen or those that burnt women to ashes for witchcraft ... get a grip.
[Incidentally, the notion that words are spelt 'correctly' is a relatively new concept and was definitely not as pervasive at the time of Levi Rodkinson - 19th C - (it is he you refer to?) and even less so when undertaking such a massive task as translating a very ancient document - the Talmud (his spelling - not Tulmald, which is an eastern european variation, most likely a mistranslation) - into a modern language ... so no marks there son]
Ioseb Besarionis dze Jughashvili
Get back to the point
01.10.2010 09:56
Petulantly setting the limits of debate?
I thought that was the tactic the American state dept used with Mr Ahmadinjehad?
This thread is about the use of crude propaganda to manufacture a wholesale slaughter of the Iranian nation, can you both address that please.
Not either of you two
the best bit
01.10.2010 13:06
the bit worth reading again and again
the truth:
"The most that could be said is that the notion of a distinct jewish race is bunk, as is the concept of race itself. This does not stop the racist colonial haters of zionism and their useful idiots from postulating that their colonization of Palestine and the subjugation of the Palestinian people is based on a genetic manifest destiny. I note again that the race laws of israel are an exact copy of the race laws of nazi germany."
a sullen mouthpiece
to summarize
01.10.2010 14:31
Let me give you an example. The abstract of the paper quite clearly indicates that the paper refutes the Khazar fantasy. So does the text from the paper I reposted. This is a paper appearing in a peer-reviewed journal, which means that an anonymous panel of genetic scientists looked over the paper to make sure it really proved what it claimed it proved - otherwise it would have been rejected for publication. Do you really think that you're smarter than every single person on that panel, and that you can spot what they - people whose professional lives is nothing but the science of genetic research. And yet you think your garage-built bottle rocket is going to shoot down this paper. Go Team Moron!
Now, since you have an affinity for claiming criminal international Jewish conspiracies - you have after all repeatedly championed the outrageously anti-semitic screed 'Protocols', which is at root a rant about how The Jews run the world press, The Jews run the world's economy, The Jews run the world's industries, The Jews run international foreign policy, etc., what a pile of crap you champion - maybe you'll just go the simple cop-out route and say, well, it was probably a Jewish panel, and you know how those Jews are, dontcha huh huh. It's the same argument you've already given in different forms, so it would not be a big stretch for you.
'The research carried out on the Protocols appears all over the place'
And if you can't figure out the difference in quality between that which appears furtively on Stormfront and that which appears in a professional historian's book published by a mainstream publisher, then I pity you deeply, because every crank in the world can pull your chain.
So let's summarize, ya pore thang.
- You think that the 'Protocols' is an accurate reflection on How The Jew Works, and offer as support an essay that appears on Stormfront. How embarrassing for you.
- You embrace the fantasy that the Jews aren't even originated in the Mideast, despite study after study having blown that out of the water, the most recent and comprehensive of which was published in a widely respected journal only months ago. How embarrassing for you.
- You embrace the writings of Holocaust denier Michael Hoffman, the kind of guy who says "there were no gas chambers in Auschwitz," and claim that he is a reputable scholar. Wow. How embarrassing for you. What is it like to praise apologists for Nazi crimes, as you are doing when you praise Hoffman?
- You confuse Soviets with Zionists. How embarrassing for you.
In general, you have waved billboards saying "I'm In Over My Head And Too Dumb To Shut Up About It."
Let me close by saying that I have not 'attempted to stop your mouth.'
I have done something far worse: I have drawn you out, so that any reader can see the racist cesspool of your mind. Thanks for allowing yourself to be exposed with such completeness.
Yes, you do have the intellectual freedom to embrace anti-semitism. Unfortunately, you have chosen to use it; fortunately, you have chosen to splatter that embrace across a long series of your posts.
And Indymedia has enabled your racism. How embarrassing for _them_ too.
not a moron
zzzzzz
01.10.2010 15:57
I dare say that you consider that the only 'professional' historian you would accept as such would be one the recapitulates your own opinions.
Mr Hoffman is a published author - therefore a 'professional' - and has qualifications in history. but for you this is not enough, he has to agree with you first and foremost.
You shout[sic] loudly and repeatedly about the short comings in others, carelessly tossing around those stinging power words you think end the issue - like 'anti-semitic' and 'racist and yet refuse to confront your own short comings, ignoring the very real racism, practised today as we exchange, in the zionist state - nor will you address the philosophical underpinnings of this racism in the one sided interpretation of history you tirelessly champion.
Insult me as much as you like, it does not add to your argument nor distract from mine.
You don't seem to be able to understand the scientific principle of evidence verses proof, yet feel that you are in position to lecture the rest of us as to the 'correct' meaning of that which you patently fail to grasp. One can put in as many abstracts as one likes to postulate that the moon is made of green cheese - until you can come up with the solid evidence, in a repeatable experiment, this is just bluff.
But thanks for pointing out an interesting avenue for further research - that paper you cite is heavy going and I might have to rely on the input of those in my acquaintance to fully appreciate it. I doubt that they will take such a haughty and unremittingly tedious opinion on it as you have, but then they are professional scientists - unless of course they disagree with you and then, they are merely morons, assholes and just embarrassing themselves.
But right on comrade, you've got the party line down right, they won't come for you. Yet.
Genrikh Yagoda
sorry about your paranoia attack
01.10.2010 16:38
Any 'historian' who wrote about how Apollo 19 landed on the moon and found a moon-rock statue of Elvis there would be rightly ridiculed, no matter what _I_ had to say one way or the other.
Any 'historian' who says that the 1904 earthquake in San Francisco was actually a Jesuit fraud would be rightly ridiculed, no matter what _I_ said on the subject.
And any 'historian' who says that the Holocaust was largely faked by The Hand Of The Jew, as Hoffman does, will rightly be ridiculed by everyone except outright racists of the 'Stormfront' variety and creduluous fools like, apparently, you.
Why would historians - as differentiated from drooling crackpots and 'Stormfront' writers - reject these people? Because in each case they make statements that are quite easily demonstrated to be false. Their buncombe is easily debunked by any honest researcher. That you find Hoffman worth even mentioning is no reflection on Hoffman, whose embrace of Holocaust denial is well-documented and who therefore has no reputation among historians to defend, but it does again just how you'll lower your intellectual drawbridge for every passing vagrant and embrace their every passing tale. That you do so while claiming intellectual rigor only serves to demonstrate that you don't know what intellectual rigor is.
The rest of your empty nattering is just what you'd expect from someone who's had his racism exposed and finds himself absolutely unable to defend himself on the facts.
'One can put in as many abstracts as one likes to postulate that the moon is made of green cheese - until you can come up with the solid evidence, in a repeatable experiment, this is just bluff.'
Says the man defending Michael Hoffman's lies about the Holocaust being faked by a seeeecret conspiracy. Quite funny!
I repeat, I have given you the citation. You may go to the research library of your choice to get the paper, based on the information I have freely given you. Anything less is just whining and excuse-making. However, I doubt deeply that you'll do that. I don't think you have the capacity for that. Instead, you'll continue to surf hate sites and call it 'research'.
'But right on comrade, you've got the party line down right, they won't come for you. Yet.'
Ah, yes. The Hidden Hand of the Judeo-Bolshevist World Order! Ahhhhhh! Run! Run!
not a nutter
the full quota
01.10.2010 20:07
Every single logical fallacy and argument of bad faith you employ.
You don't convince me that you have read a single word of Hoffman, nor any of the tributes to the depth of his research given to him from some of the worlds leading Rabbis. His material concentrates almost exclusively on the religion of judaism. I can tell that it is you that have garnered most of your knowledge from hate sites and not bothered doing any investigation beyond that - only to you these hate sites are not hate sites but straight laced orthodoxy.
You keep pretending that you have read the paper you cite from - its laughable.
As for the issue of knocks at the door in the middle of the night - this is an allusion to the NKVD, the Cheka and the KGB - run almost exclusively at the top levels by zionist jews until after stalins death - and yes they eventually came for people like you, the useful idiots, as well as millions of other souls. But for your warped narrow outlook, it is no irony that you deny this mass murder whilst maintaining your own vision of your sainthood for intimating that I am that very worst of sub human beings - the holocaust denier. I doubt if you have even the slightest inkling of the meaning and origin of that word, holocaust, nor of the kabbalistic significance of the number 6 million - but then you refuse to read beyond that proscribed for you.
But you a useful idiot - even for me, cause it just gives me more reason to dwell on subjects that have been forbidden for to long to discuss - lets call it holocaustanity, the new post WW2 religion of fools.
You're great :)
harold shipman
what a conceited 'not a nutter'
01.10.2010 20:14
As far as I can tell, you are making a real hash of defending your position.
You would have thought that it would be an easy task, apparently not.
Why don't you get off your high horse and bring forth the data you are constantly claiming to have and forgo the boring insults.
And as for the poster who has been using a constant stream of aliases based on mass murderers, you do realise that there have been mass murderers that were not jewish don't you?
Or are just fixated on the crimes of jews?
I think we would all like to know.
very bored
Fixated you say?
02.10.2010 10:53
Lets face up to the truth here, it's a pretty gruesome picture and a horrifying body count for a people who make up no more than 0.02% of the worlds population - even taking into account the likelihood that their actual numerical representation is overstated (I am using the figure of 20 million individuals, although it is probably more like 15 million even at their height).
Why is a fixation to investigate their crimes and merely historical research when looking elsewhere. Typical double standards and hypocrisy that's why.
Lavrentija Berija
how 'bout it, ftp?
02.10.2010 14:00
He thinks Holocaust deniers are praiseworthy.
He uses 'Jew', 'Jewish,' 'Bolshevik', and 'Zionist' interchangeably, betraying deep historic ignorance.
He praises the wildly anti-semitic 'Protocols' as basically accurate and dismisses the fact that it has been proven to be utterly fradulent.
He thinks The Jew owns the media.
He plagiarises from 'Stormfront'-like sites - clearly anti-semitic sites - for his 'information' about 'Protocols.'
He embraces the disproven 'Jews aren't even Semitic' canard and waves away without reason the genetic studies that prove they aren't. (Yes, I do have a copy of the study published this June, and yes, I have read the whole thing.)
He's working his way through a list of Jewish murderers because it somehow gives him jollies to do so.
In short, he's enough of an anti-semite, and has declared his anti-semitism so forthrightly, I begin to wonder if he's a friend of ftp, given that ftp has failed to sweep away his anti-semitic sewage - as I predicted he would.
How 'bout it, ftp?
not a racist
oh please please mr authority
02.10.2010 17:16
Ha, got your knickers in a twist haven't I?
You completely can't take the idea of your own racism can you?
All I've done is forward to you some facts and some concepts, you on the other hand have squirmed, insulted, whined and now appealed to authority figures for help - you're pathetic.
Anti-semitism - pah, a totally invented notion that nullifies the very meaning of the words and appropriates the very thing that jews are not - semites - at the expense of those that are - the Palestinians.
Holocaust describes the sacrificial stone for the victims of jewish religious rights, ancient and modern - be they animal or human (the story of Issac anyone?)
The protocols have to be a forgery if they say things your weak mind can't grasp and that your quivering manhood shrinks from. You are the goy, you are the slave and your culture of freedom and equality is being dismantled in front of your face.
Zionist jews want a greater israel that is free from non jews - and will stop at nothing to get it. Murder, oppression, theft, deceit and now a threatened genocide against the old Persian enemy. And you bleat about racism? You couldn't give a fig about racism.
The zionist jew postulates a racial purity unbroken for 3000 years and demands the removal of a whole people as a result. You? You prefer to wet yourself when someone dares to challenge your belief system.
'Oooh pleaaase stop the nasty man pleaase someone save us from his words'
I'd laugh if it were funny.
Go fuck yourself you stalinist piece of shit. Attempting to debate with someone who puts their fingers in their ears and rushes off to 'tell sir' - waste of time innit?
Truth and reality are just relative concepts to someone with no honour, no integrity no self respect and no idea. Admit it, you are twisted with hatred and bent out of all recognizable human shape by your never ending quest to be 'the man'. You are the little man.
I raise my glass to free men and women everywhere, men and women who do not need a race or class or god or ethnicity to guide them, men and women who care not for gender or sexuality, men and women who eschew body fascism and the cult of narcissism, men and women who are not afraid to love and fight for their fellows.
Perhaps one day this could be you, for now, though cling to the nightmares of your politics and your races and your classes and your nations and your gods ...
Binyamin Netanyahu
the comic opera ain't over till the anti-semitic martinet sings
02.10.2010 18:15
'All I've done is forward to you some facts and some concepts'
Yes, 'facts' that dissolved on first inspection, popping like a soap bubble, and 'concepts' from every major Jew-hater in history. 'Facts' made up from whole cloth to exonerate the Nazis. 'Facts' made of utterly fallacious conspiracy theories about the all-powerful 'International Jew.' 'Concepts' about the Jew you can also find in 'Mein Kampf', a book you show a deep metnal affinity with. In an important sense, Hitler wrote it just for people like you.
In general, you've done a great job not only exposing your ignorance but exposing your pride in that very ignorance. Helpful hint: hopping from hate site to hate site on the internet and then believing everything you see isn't 'research,' it's 'being a credulous fool without half the wit God gave the average slice of toast.'
Any objective observer with even the slightest exposure to the history of anti-semitism will conclude that you're a Jew-hating bigot jerking off to hate sites but with no understanding whatsoever of Jewish history, Jewish theology, or the Jewish people. Just another wannabe goosestepper with a browser. No wonder you want to pretend the very concept of anti-semitism doesn't exist.
The real issue isn't your blatant anti-semitism, because you've gone far and above what's necessary to establish that to any honest reader. The real issue is how its continued appearance here puts the like to any claim that Indymedia UK is actually an anti-racist site.
not a Hitler apologist
Last question, and it's a simple one
02.10.2010 23:25
I do.
Damn any fool and knave that say they are chosen, have a divine right to rule or 'occupy' the high rung of 'the elite'.
The rest is just an argument about history.
Menachem Begin
my final question
03.10.2010 00:39
My advice: don't do it just yet. There's nothing wrong with you that can't be cured by a good solid case of adolescence, and I wish you the best of luck as you approach it.
not a racist
oh and one last thing
03.10.2010 01:37
not a racist