So you're claiming that Hamas-enabler ships trying to break the naval blockade on Gaza are being prevented from crossing the defensive barrier between the West Bank and Israel?

@Muppet:

So you're saying Palestine should also have a right to a naval blockade of Israel to stop them importing weapons that will be used against the Palestinians?

On what grounds does Israel have the right to stop people sailing ships to the West Bank?

You are saying that instead they should suffer the humiliation of having scum go through their stuff at some Stalinesque checkpoint?

How about refusing to load ships destined for israel exporting all those lovely american goodies to the settlements, now that would make a fucking difference

You ask: 'On what grounds does Israel have the right to stop people sailing ships to the West Bank?'

The argument is thus:

People in the West Bank are firing rockets into Israel.
Firing rockets is an act of aggression.
To prevent the firing of any more rockets, Israel has imposed a blockade on the West Bank.

There is nothing illegal in that.

Well, attracting the ire of the pro-Israel posts here must be seen as a good sign, they sure are getting nervous. Even in the pro-Israel USA people are waking up.

As for "lawyer" and his "arguments", he/she needs to go back to law school:

A blockade of 1.5 million citizens who have neither army, navy nor airforce is not a form of defense but an international crime of "collective punishment" and judged an illegal act by the Geneva Conventions, as was recently re-stated by none other than the International Red Cross... not exactly a left-wing islamist organization.

 http://www.middleeastmonitor.org.uk/news/europe/1157-red-cross-israel-siege-on-gaza-illegal-punishing-civilians

When did the last rocket come from the West Bank into Israel?
And how do you get a ship to the West Bank? Up the Jordan?

And how many rockets has Israel dropped on Palestinian territories in the past 18 months - or do they have a more hi-tech sounding name when Israel does it?

"Hamas-enabler" doesn't exactly roll of the tongue either. Can't see it spreading
further than Zionist jargon vomiters and their Telegraph buddies

Two points:

Not having an army, navy or airforce doesn't prevent people from firing rockets intended to kill people. And if Gaza has no army, then all the people inside carrying arms are not entitled to the Geneva Conventions, since they are not part of a recognised military institution.

Secondly, I hope similar action will be taken against Egypt, for they too are blockading Gaza by controlling the Rafah crossing.

Your post seems a little confused.

Are you saying that all Israeli ships everywhere should be banned from the world's ports because of the West Bank?

As to rockets: you may not agree, but Israeli rockets usually have a specific target, such as Palestinian rocket sites. In other words, they are guided. Rockets from Gaza are unguided: their only target is the civilian population of Israel. Oh - isn't this against the Geneva Convention?

And your phrase 'Zionist jargon vomiters' is the sort of language you might expect from Der Sturmer.

"LAWYER" uses the typical smoke-screen hasbra spin on "poor little" Israel "defending" itself against "rockets".

TWO POINTS:
1) those "Hamas terrorists" are the ones with a lawful right to resistence and self-defense. Those missles that they are lobbing on a place Israel calls "Sredot" is actually a village where they used to live, an Arab villiage called Najd, before they were ethnically cleansed by Israel.

2) When you write [lacking a military institution] "people who carry arms are not entitled to the Geneva Conventions" you are vastly mistaken on a number of fronts. Having invaded and destroyed Gaza a number of times, ISRAEL is legally RESPONSIBLE for the well-being of the citizens of Gaza. This includes various responsibilities as defined under International Law and protection of civilians.

But for you and the rascist Zionist idealogy, there are no civilians in Gaza, just terrorists who all should be killed:

 http://www.haaretz.com/news/chabad-rabbi-jews-should-kill-arab-men-women-and-children-during-war-1.277616

putting words into other people's mouths.

' "poor little" Israel "defending" ' - if you're going to put these words into quotes, then please do check that I actually have used them.

Ah - so Hamas have the right to bombard Sredot, since once upon a time Palestinians lived there. By that argument, Germany would have the right to bombard Kalinigrad - which, as you may or may not be aware, used to be called Konigsberg until it was ethnically cleansed by the Red Army in 1945/46.

Gaza's been destroyed a number of times? I thought you could only destroy something once.

And again you put words into my mouth. When did I ever say or imply there were no civilians in Gaza? If you're going to comment or criticism, then do it with some intellectual honesty.

...then let's honestly look at your exact statement rather than analyze the attitude I was inferring from your comments

"To prevent the firing of any more rockets, Israel has imposed a blockade on the West Bank..."

"PREVENTING THE FIRING OF ROCKETS":

a) the rockets were fired from Gaza AFTER Israel broke the cease-fire with Hamas on Nov. 5, 2008,
attacking and killing 6 Palestinians. Israel STARTED the Gaza War of 2008. The rockets were a response:
source:
 http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/05/israelandthepalestinians

b) Israel, in this so-called "prevention" campaign, managed to killed 1,417 Palestinians over a third of the casualties were women and children
source:
 http://www.ifamericansknew.org/cur_sit/dec08.html

c) Not only is the blockade illegal (see former post) but the actions of Israel in the war against Gaza resulted in the Goldstone report which documented acts viewed as war crimes.

You ridiculous comparison Sredot/Kalingrad deserves no further analysis. Not only did the Zionists actively collaborate with the Nazis, it is Israel and its concept of "chosen people" who are behaving much like Nazi Germany's "Herrschaftsrasse" and "Lebensraum" so you would be better off leaving Germany and it's history out of your debate.

'the rockets were fired from Gaza AFTER Israel broke the cease-fire with Hamas on Nov. 5, 2008, '

Not according to this:

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2008

The comparison with Konigsberg is ridiculous? Try this:

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evacuation_of_East_Prussia

So the ethnic cleaning of Sredot is a terrible act, fully justifying the indiscriminate rocket fire, whereas the ethnic cleansing of Konigsberg is quite all right. Quite what 'Zionist collaboration' and 'Lebensraum' have to with the Red Army atrocities escapes me for the moment.

By the way, indiscriminate rocket fire on a civilian population is also a war crime.

Muppetwatch - "Hamas-enabler ships" - what nonsense you fabricate, so far from documented truth (speak to the Cypriot port authority and others who check out ships cargoes).

lawyer - you are not one if you don't know anything about the illegality of collective punishment, which is what the blockade and other Israeli policies do. It's nothing to do with the Geneva Convention, which I suggest you need to study just for a few minutes before you quote rubbish! "Israeli guided rockets" - you've not studied any of that either, have you! The number of documented civilian casualties, not to mention the family houses destroyed as collective punishment. Quoting from the user-edited wikipedia also does not do your credentials much good!

Over and out.

OK, someone pointed this out already but hey, if you are gonna post things here better check your facts just a little.
First important fact: There is a naval blockade on the West Bank, but it isn't Israel who enforces it, it's god, and he enforces it by not having a sea near the west bank, better look at a map.

Second: The attack on Gaza last year wasn't about rockets, it wasn't about Gilad Shalit, it wasn't about none of that, it was about having the last few weeks of George Bush in power and showing off to Obama, it was a last ditch political maneuver and it was to hide the Genocide in Sri-Lanka, this is the role Israel plays and this is why America loves us so, once a genocide is happening in the Palestinian territories, no one cares if another one is going on elsewhere, it's a smoke screen nothing more.

Third:There were no Hamas people on board the Floatila, may have been some confused people around but nothing more. There have since been an Israeli Generals letter coming public condemning the government for this attack, saying it was stupid and counter productive (which any moron can tell you it was).

Fourth: Hamas is in power because the PLO were a bunch of corrupt pathetic Israel/Washington puppets, and because Israel (unofficially) assassinated Arafat, this is a fact. Arafat's son on the other hand had a business selling stuff to build the Wall, this is the sort of corruption that PLO were into, Hamas are bastards, they are religious fanatics, but they are not corrupt and that's why people voted for them, if we used the 10 or so years gap between the Oslo peace agreement and the second intifada to establish a Palestinian state Hamas would of had as much chance of power as the BNP.

Fifth: It seems to me that the only viable way to put pressure on Israel is to put pressure on it's wallet, It won't budge otherwise, but if America stops sponsoring it, if the Israeli high-tech companies can't sell services, if there is no trade Israel would break and would have to withdraw, Terrorist attack evidently won't do it, they'll just make the far right stronger on both sides (which arguable that's what they are trying to do), peaceful resistance is fine and dandy but you just end up being shot anyway, I've seen that happen too many times, if anyone can think of a way to have peace then let me know (but don't just repeat this dry bull shit of "if they wouldn't do XYZ then there will be peace", it's rubbish, Israel has a financial gain to make from keeping a large section of society oppressed, working for nothing and exploited for their blood and sweat to let a few terrorist attacks or international human rights violation charges to just stop with no financial incentive.

Sixth: What in the hell are all of you arseholes doing on Indymedia anyway spreading propaganda? why? are you being paid to do it? are you trying desperately to prove us wrong? are you just sore losers? are you enjoying this? because we are right and you are wrong, period, It's not anti-semitic, it's logic, Israel is the oppressor, Palestine the oppressed, no spin you put on this will make it change.

>> Sixth: What in the hell are all of you arseholes doing on Indymedia anyway spreading propaganda? why? are you being paid to do it? are you trying desperately to prove us wrong? are you just sore losers? are you enjoying this? because we are right and you are wrong, period, It's not anti-semitic, it's logic, Israel is the oppressor, Palestine the oppressed, no spin you put on this will make it change.

Because it provides a few seconds or sometimes even a few minutes of amusement.

i'm not trying to put spin on it or change anything. Its not about being a sore loser or winning. There is nothing funnier that watching a bunch of people telling another group that they can't do that / its illegal and coming up with a solution. Then the other group just completely ignores them like they don't even exist!

I suppose Israel could listen to you, but they know you've got no muscle and so just completely ignore you. You can go around protesting and drumming up "outrage", but I don't think many people actually give a shit otherwise something would have happened beyond the fringe element by now.

first, whoops, my geographical knowledge isn't up to scratch. I thought the West Bank was the one on the coast (hell, sandBANKs are by the sea so it's an easy mistake to make) but in fact it's Gaza.

second, "authority over you" is just playing at amorality and pretending might is right. I'm sure they'd be the first to go whining like a crybaby if they got a pasting or if people they cared about were killed. Maybe they care about no-one though? Lonely life for them then. And don't complain when suicide bombers blow up innocent civilians if you don't believe there is such a thing as right and wrong.

Phew really bored of your arguments here! I'm with Zanzibar on this one. What does Israel export? i mean i can live without the odd avocado and jaffa orange. The real facts are that Israel cannot sustain itself with out substantial imports, it does not grow enough food to feed itself, it does not produce oil gas or coal, i don't think they make anything really, just a great big friendly foriegn base for the yanks. Not really the land of milk and honey the old bastard big Jah promised eh? they are even running out of water.

So simple, if you wanna bring Israel to the table, block thier imports. DA the companies selling thier goods to them. Teamsters, Wobblies and Unionistas... Vive La Sabot!

oh and fuck hammas. bunch of bleedin fundies.

Israel doesn't make anything? They are a very large supplier of chemicals to the world, they "supply" encryption. They export lots, just not things you would hear abut every day.