We need a change in the legislation not these kinds of campaigns of targeting small businesses. Since SHAC began vivisection has gone up and up.

So why during the 80's to about 97 did vivisection go down, despite a far more intensive movement against animal experiments, and every other industry for that matter?

It's not to do with the campaign, it's to do with who's in power. Do you reccon you could get Labour to ban animal testing then, Mandy?

.. about the breeder.

'Anon', please explain how you intend to get this legislation? And will it be passed before we are able to close any more abuse facilities?

If you were more than an ignorant troll you would be aware of the following facts;

a) Animal testing began to increase when Lord Sainsburies (who profited in the millions from vivisection) became Tony Blair's chief scientific advisor. ot exactly an easy one to convince to change the legislation over a cup of tea...
b) Barry Horne nearly died on hunger strike fighting for a judicial review that had been promised by pre-'97 labour. They lied again and tricked him into ending that hunger strike. If you actually read some of the ALF communiques you would see that aside from the short term aims of their actions, they often call for a proper inquiry. There have even been tentative offers of cessation if the Government were to hold a proper inquiry.
c) Before the SOCPA laws were introduced, and SHAC were in their heyday, big pharma based vivisection looked very shaky. Many of the biggest pharma companies were threatening to leave the UK. If you actually look at the ALF attacks linked to the anti-HLS campaign you will see that compared to, for example, national anti-social behaviour or inner city gang crime, the number of attacks was tiny. Why then would the government introduce a specialist police unit (or two), new laws drafted to directly target SHAC (firstly to stop home demos, then office occupations, then the SOCPA additions), unless it was because they were desperate to stop SHAC in order to keep the pharma companies in this country.
d) The founders of SHAC are in prison for a very long time, the fact that animal testing is now rising more than ever cannot be attributed to them. No, the fact it is rising now is 100% YOUR fault. I intend to continue to fight it, what are you going to do?

What are you talking about? One of the main reasons animals used in test has risen is mainly due to technological advances in DNA techniques which has allowed breeders for the industry the ability to breed animals specifically for the task at hand.

You could say that the 80s & 90s drop in the use of animals was down to direct action tactics from the likes of SHAC and I believe this to be the case. What you need to take into account is that the success of this was mainly down to lack of police action and lack of legislation. It's also important to remember that the success of SHAC was due to it's ability to think on it's feet and change tactics in order to keep one step ahead. When the industry said enough is enough the government had to make a move because it would not be a good move for our economy if such an industry pulled out of our country. I read on another page on indy that it takes more that a handful of activists but the whole idea of direct action is because small groups working independently would have a better chance of success without detection.

Legislation was the move taken, along with new forces set up, in a direct response to direct action campaigns. From what I can see it has worked because now we have a different climate altogether, very little direct action and the action that takes place is often very low level and petty. Too many people on indy saying how effective direct action is but would rather read about it.

As for legislation, well, many victories have gone down the route of changing legislation. The hunt ban is one example of many. It works and more importantly it keeps the general public on side something the SHAC campaign and mainly the Newchurch campaign has had the opposite effect.

The hunt ban 'works'? What the hell are you on about!

Yes campaigning to change legislation works, the policing of the hunt ban is another hurdle. Hunting with dogs is banned due to campaigning to change legislation....

So tell me what direct action has done except closed down the odd breeder for another to step in and take over?

You only have to look at the mess we are in now to see what damage has been done due to direct action gone mad.

Ask these breeders, all of whom used to supply to vivisection labs until those nasty, nasty direct action people stepped in and completely wrecked the animal supply network in the UK!

(Note, this is not even a full list considering the updates recently from the ALIU)

* Abbot Brothers, Norwich. Breeders of pigeons
* Animal Supplies Ltd, Roebuck Farm, Herts. Traded monkeys which were bought from zoos
* A Tuck & Son Ltd., Battlesbridge, Southend-on-Sea, Essex. Breeders of rats and mice. Closed 2003. [3]
* Biological Supplier Services Ltd, Hull, East Yorkshire. Bred Cats and Farm Animals. Closed 2004.
* Club Row, Bethnal Green Road, London. Closed after campaign by the BUAV - 1983
* Coney Europa Ltd. Farm Animals - Closed 2000
* Consort Kennels, Herefordshire. Breeders of beagles and primate holding centre. Closed 1997.
* David Hall & Partners, Darley Oaks Farm, Newchurch, Staffordshire. Breeders of guineapigs. Closed Jan 2006.
* Froxfield Farms Ltd, Unit 3, King Lane, Froxfield, Hampshire, GU32 1DR Breeders of Rabbits
* Grayston Guinea-Pigs, Ringwood, Hants. Breeders of guinea-pigs
* Griffin & Co, Essex Closed: Apx 2000 Supplied Frogs and Amphibians
* Hacking & Churchill, Huntingdon, Cambs. Breeders of dogs and rabbits. Site bought by Harlan Interfauna Ltd when H&C closed
* Harlan Rosehill Farm, East Sussex. Breeders of guineapig and rabbits. Closed 2000.
* Harlan Firgrove Farm, Heathfield, East Sussex. Closed 2004.
* Harlan Cambridge Farm, Sussex. Bred rodents
* HG Rabbitry, Healds Green, Chadderton, Oldham, OL11 2SP
* Hillgrove Farm, Witney, Oxfordshire. Breeders of cats. Closed in 1998.
* Hylyne Rabbits, Lymm, Cheshire. Closed 1994.
* Lesley Moore, Bradford, West Yorkshire. Breeders of rabbits and pigeons. Closed apx. 2004.
* Morton Commercial Rabbits, Parsonage Farm, Stansted, Essex
* Nuneham Farm, Nuneham Courtenay, Oxford. Bred Cats - was owned by the University of Oxford
* OLAC (Northern) Ltd - Closed 1987
* OLAC (Southern) Ltd - Closed 1989
* Oxford University Park Farm, Northmoor, Oxford. Closed in 1999.
* Pemberley Rabbits, Cottenham, Cambridge
* Perrycroft Lodge, Jubilee Drive, Malvern, Worcestershire, WR13 6DN Bred beagles. Closed in 1990.
* Porcellus Animal Breeding Ltd, Sussex. Bred guinea-pigs. Closed in 2004.
* Ranch Rabbits, Parkfield Farm, Crawley Down, Copthorne, Sussex Closed 1994
* Redfern Animal Breeders, Ely Grange, Frant, Tunbridge Wells, TN3 9DZ Bred Guinea-Pigs
* Regal Group UK t/a Regal Rabbits, Great Bookham, Surrey. Breeders of rabbits. Closed in 2000.
* Rosemead Rabbits, Waltham Abbey, Essex. Bred Rabbits
* Rowlands Cattle Farm, Hampshire - Cows for use at GlaxoSmithKline
* Roy Robinson, St. Stephens Road Nursery, Ealing, London, W13 8HB Bred cats
* Shamrock Farm, Small Dole, West Sussex. Importers of primates. Closed in 2000.
* Sky Commercial Rabbit Farm, Meltham, Nr Huddersfield, West Yorkshire
* Stukeley Meadows, Stukeley Meadows Industrial Estate, Huntingdon. Breeders of rodents for Huntingdon Life Sciences. Closed c.2000.
* The Frog Farm, County Meath, Ireland. Breeders of Frogs and Reptiles. Closed in 2005.
* Water Farm Goat Centre, Stogursey, Bridgwater, Somerset. Breeders of goats. c.2004
* Wrights of Essex, Latchingdon, Chelmsford. Bred Syrian Hamsters

So, due to these direct action lot the price of every animal species has now increased beyond that of the general price increase you'd expect over the years with anything being traded. You can no longer buy cats from UK breeding colonies, nor goats since the direct action lot raided Water Farm Goat Centre. The cost implications of conducting primate research have gone through the roof, so most facilities (other than those with endless pockets of funding) can afford to use that species, meaning monkey labs have shut down.

Nothing achieved? Look at the list, it's barely a few breeders is it!

Posting a list of closed breeders is not proof that direct action is working. Not all on the list can even be attributed to direct action! All that has happened is that breeders have closed new breeders open not to mention the shift in transgenic breeds. The litmus test is the amount of animals used in the vivisection industry each year and that number has risen dramatically. All you have proved is that in the 80s &90s when support for animal rights was at it's peak a few small time breeders closed. Take Shamrock, the place closed yet the people involved are STILL involved in supplying primates to the industry. HLS, Covance are breeding their own, Covance have the largest concentration of primates in their lab than ever before after the failed attempt to stop their new extension!

The biggest weapon the animal rights movement had was the hearts and minds of the general public but that was lost due to direct action. Now mainstream campaigns are compromised because the movement has managed to demonise itself. Infighting, power struggles and even attacking each other has left the animal rights movement a laughing stock.

Demos are down, numbers are down and have been steady dropping for a few years now to the point we are left with what people perceive as fanatics disconnected from reality.

Ever wondered why the animal rights movement is shunned human rights groups?

Couldn't agree more. What we have always needed is an animal liberation group akin to the Red Army Faction. Indeed, a revival of the Red Army Faction itself is long overdue.

You're obviously trolling, why would a genuine activist say "Infighting, power struggles and even attacking each other has left the animal rights movement a laughing stock" and then proceed to infight and attack other people?

Direct action has its place and has been very effective. No-one is suggesting it's the only tactic - it works best when accompanied by education and other methods.

The reason the press have been on the attack against animal rights recently is just because we got too successful and entities like the pharmaceutical industry had a PR offensive. Corporations, media and politicians are all part of the same power structure so they help each other out in situations like this.

Animal rights moves relentlessly forward though, more and more people are going vegetarian and vegan, and younger generations are more aware of animal abuse.

first off the hunting ban has not worked as there are still many hunts going on constantly throughout the uk. the only thing it has helped with is they way in whch it can be dealt with as now the police have to by law take action against hunting when it has been proven to have taken place. only problem is that for anyone against direct action the hunts will never be stopped by police as they take less than zero interest in investigating these matters themselves and it takes direct action groups to go out into the field at there own risk and get the evidence in the first place.
so as much as legislation being brought in against vivisection would be a massive step in the right direction theres very little chance of that actually happening, and even if it did the disgusting people who run these industries would only go underground and find a way around it meaning that it would still take direct action to shut them down completely.
also, considering that cameron is now moving for a reprieve on the hunting ban i cant exactly see any new legislation for animal rights being brought in anytime soon.