...Anti Fascist Action this would of never happened. Halt state-sponsered Anti-Fascism & let's go back to being autonomous

where can i find the bnp candidate asking if there all robbers? because what i saw here was an altercation and the asian then spat at the other bloke and if im honest if he spat at me id wanna hit him as well

that's not the way i saw it, they set upon him but the racist thug should no way have reacted like that. antifa!

Its quite clear that Bailey bnp scum asked the asian lads if they wre robbers before trouble .

"where can i find the bnp candidate asking if there all robbers?"

Listen to the start of the film - that's where he asks if they are all robbers.

"what i saw here was an altercation and the asian then spat at the other bloke and if im honest if he spat at me id wanna hit him as well"

You don't need an excuse to spit at or attack BNP activists - they deserve it just for existing. The asian guys here were clearly provoked, but even if they'd launched an completely unprovoked attack on the BNP they would have been totally justified.

There is a Cllr Robert W Bailey listed in the old leaked BNP membership list, from Dagenham, with mobile and email address - is that the one?

One of the striking things about this film is the fact that anti-fascist lads are clearly local lads. Unlike Baily

Now I know the BBC who broke this story focuses on the colour of the local lads skin but I think as anti-fascists we should focus on the fact that some brave lads from the east end stood up to a much larger group of fascist interlopers.

I take my hat of to the anti fascist lads.

Be aware that defining people by their skin plays into the fascist mind set. Asian v bnp portrays the bnp as a just problem for people with Asian backgrounds not what they really are which is the enemy of of our class.

local anti fascists fight fascists!

A previous poster asks if he is the robert baily listed in Dagenham. Yes he owns that house but he dose not live there. Rich Northerner Baily lives in a posh house in west London provided by the German tax payer because his wife is is a German citizen who works for their embassy here and gets the house as a perk. (sadly im really not joking... )

In this video Bob Bailey can be heard saying "how many of you's are robbers" - presumably for the crime of being Asian, so it's hardly surprising they reacted...

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJx3MS59v8s

In this video Bob Bailey can be heard calling the lad a "***** (bleeped) bugger" BEFORE the lad's mate spits, so the BNP definitely started it...

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xTIA7zG3l4

Check out this video about a BNP Croydon candidate being found guilty of attacking WOMEN...

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_SIBewvdKk

I watched that video and I think the BNP guy pointed to himself him and said " name is Robert " or something similar. It seems he has a Yorkshire accent. Anyway the three guys squared up to him and lost.

I really don't think that this can be called a racist attack. The guy provoked a response when he spat at the BNP guy. I might have responded in the same way if someone spat in my face. This was not an 'Anti-Fa Action". The BNP came out this looking a lot better than the other three guys. I would consider it an own-goal on their side.

I hate the BNP. I loathe their politics. Nationalism disturbs me. Britishness makes me laugh.

but

Spitting in someones face disgusts me.

Why is this crap posted on Indymedia. The head line is dishonest and the rest is clumsy propaganda.

I take my BBC comment back a little bit the woman on the BBC London news just refers to them as local youth a far fairer description than Asian. As their website is showing.

@ Mr chips nobody but someone pretending to not be a fascist would say “Britishness makes me laugh” you are clearly a closet jackboot wearer.

Oddly enough Mr chips I agree with you that the indymedia heading is wrong though for very different reasons to yours.

This thread will stay up because propaganda is what were about round here and specifically propaganda by the deed!

Let me make it clear I take my hat of to these lads from Barking irrespective of weather they started the fight or not. They stood up to a far larger group of fascist pricks who were out spreading their filth in their area. People should do that when ever they see Nazi skum.

He actually said ''how many is there of us?'' and at the start you can see he points behind him as he says it, although it does sound like he says ''how many of you are robbers?''

He clearly says "How many is there of us?" which would appear to be an arse about face way of saying "How many of us is there?". There must've been some altercation (albeit verbal) prior to this and Bob Bailey was obviously implying "don't stupid and start something, you're outnumbered".

It could be argued that Bob started it by placing hands on the chap in the polo shirt, but given the manner in which he approached, it was fair enough. The bloke in the polo shirt then really gets in his face before being pushed away. It is then the same guy who spits in his face, causing it to kick off big time.

Whilst I don't condone BNP and have attended ANL rallies in the past (back in the day of Derek Beacon), in this case antifascist distorts things badly. If you want to be taken seriously, don't embelish, just tell it how it is.

"HOW MANY IS THERE OF US?" says it twice.

@ @rchie Of course I am “pretending not to be a fascist” and of course I am “a closet jackboot wearer”. The reason being, of course, nothing to do with the fact I have lived under the tyranny of a ruling élite using their British identity to repress another group. Nothing to do with the fact that I have studied the effects of British imperialism through-out the world. Nothing to the fact that I have travelled to many places on this earth and seen for my own eyes the effects of this Britishness. Nothing to do the fact I have opinions that worth debating.

Of course not! I am pretending not to be a fascist” and “a closet jackboot wearer” because you disagree with me!

It is not odd that you disagree with the headline. There are many reasons for disagreement on this. We could use many lenses to analysis this and we could come up with many different reasons. That is the beauty of reasoned debate. If you read my last post again you will see that I stated the headline was dishonest and not wrong as you have erred. I would love to have your childish world view so that I could see things in terms of right and wrong but alas I have had grow up.

Of course this post might stay up. I am not suggesting censorship as this does not breach the editorial guide lines per se however I will reiterate my opinion on the piece. This post is clumsy propaganda and does little to boost the campaign against the BNP.

You are definite that post will stay up. Are you part of the Indymedia editorial team? You say that “This thread will stay up because propaganda is what were about round here and specifically propaganda by the deed! “ The word “were” is incorrect but I get the message. However this kind excludes me! Am I not from around here?

Anyway if you are happy to be associated with this kind of clumsy propaganda, that is fine. I on the other hand would rather a more honest, open, and creative kind of reporting. Slightly subverting the states propaganda machine by cut and paste falls short of the spirit of Indymedia (Happy 10th Birthday by the way).

Again if you are happy to take your hat off to these guys then fair enough. I disagree and won’t let you or they speak for me. They did not “stand up to a larger group”. There was five BNP and only two of the five participated in this melee. Two stood idly by and one other tried to diffuse the situation. These are the facts that anyone can plainly see. Just because you see something that fits your agenda does not make it so. People are not stupid so why to you treat as so. Who are you to decide what people should do? Not everyone is capable of using violence. The local men were not and scored an own goal. Now the BNP have another video to show how their supporters.


@rchie – words have weight and when you bandy the word Nazi you weaken its power to remind us of the heinous deeds perpetrated by Hitler and his henchmen. The BNP are fascist and no doubt about that but they are not in the same league the Third Reich. The BNP needs to be challenged on the streets but the have a go hero type does the cause no good.

Organise!!!

@Mr Chips

Apologies if I wrongly accused you of a jackboot fetish but unfortunately fascist posters across the web (very often those linked to the BNP) often post pieces not revealing their identity (try the comments on almost any local paper discussing immigration for example)and I find it can be useful to root them out.

again apologies if I have been mistaken this time.

Your allusion to imperialism is interesting and not one I have seen that often in critiques of the BNP, if its genuine I would love to hear more

We have potentially overlapping critiques about the original poster, you because you feel it is dishonest in its portraial of a 'racist attack' and me because I think that the use of race to define the perpetrators does the cause of anti fascism no good. It defines anti-fascism with race. Your thoughts on this would be good.

I agree that the post is done clumsily but the fascists are an emotive issue and I suspect that the original poster rushed out his/her comment. But I still find your comments on propaganda a bit weird, Indymedia is almost entirely what can be described as propaganda.

I have been an contributor to indymedia since It started though I have never ever been a moderator. I belive in the maxim 'be the media' so in that sense I am part of Indymedia , it is to this that I refer.
Indymedia stems from political positions that maintain that the mainstream media mediates the truth out of existence, specifically in its reporting or distortion of events carried out by the radical left (it orignates and still has a 'direct action' focus) Though I have no idea of the politics of these lads from Barking (other than obvious anti-fascism) and the post stems from the BBC the discussion that we are having is relevant to Indymedia.

When I said propaganda by the deed I should have more accurately said direct action i.e. events as unmediated between the actor and the effect as possible. Confronting the BNP on the streets is clearly direct action and should be both discussed and, in my opinion, applauded.

I have saluted the actions of the lads from Barking because they did stand up to a larger group (5 is still more than 3 and presumably prior to the melee they had know idea who would be involved or how.) And I dont care if their had been less fascists, confronting the BNP is still a rational act.

Im aware that words have weight and so is not your use of the word fascist going to weaken the heinous deeds carried out by Mussolini and his henchmen (the Riviluzionario d'Azione Internazionalista or Fascists) I suspect not!
I think randomly calling the BNP Nazi in the way the UAF do is pointless but that dosen't make the BNP any less Nazi. They may have put on a nice suit or like dresing up as Libyan Saints but their international friends are the still likes of Jobbick of Hungary (the ones with the jackboots and arm bands) or The NPD of Germany (that's the successor to the German Reich party).

Nowhere has anyone other than you suggested that these men speak for anyone other than themselves and again I find your thinking odd to say the least. You have twice referd to an own goal which implys that you see these men as coming from some form of specific position yet you think that have a go heroes are not the answer.

How do you suggest we confront the BNP on the street without have a go heroes?

...that old fucking chesnut.

Morris, you obviously are a racist - what has the spitting, or the fact they were young asian men got to do with anything? The BNP candidate randomly accused the lads of being thieves - unsurprsingly they weren't too happy about it and responded accordingly

Pity they didn't have enough mates around to deal with the scum properly.

@rchie you are indeed mistaken and I think you know that. I accept your apology even though you have kept a reservation. I am no way involved in the BNP or any other political party. I don’t allude to imperialism. In fact I state very clearly that I have experienced the affects of British imperialism in my own country and abroad. I did this in the negative for effect. My story is genuine and by no means unique but that is for another time and another place.

There are many groups of people who would have a claim on British citizenry. For example many of those who immigrated to the UK from the West Indies during the fifties identified themselves as British. The forties saw the arrival of the Anglo-Indians who returned here after independence of India in the forties and of course there are those who are loyal to the union in the North of Ireland. The list goes on. The BNP do not have the say on who is British.
My critique of the original poster is that (a) the head line is not factually correct. (b) It is not original and (c) this kind of clumsy propaganda serves the BNP rather than the anti-fascists. Is it right to say that it was a racist attack?

If some spat in your face would you turn there other cheek or would you lash out like the guy in the clip? I would find it very hard not to retaliate if I found myself in that position. This was no racist attack. I also believe in the maxim ‘be the media’ and have been involved in Indymedia and other such projects since 2002. I have been involved in many campaigns that have benefited from people posting on Indymedia. It’s a great resource for activists and I hope people support the project for many years to come. However I believe that citizen journalists need to seek out the other angles that the dominant media does not. This can be Indymedia at its best. The clips of squats being opened, enjoyed, and evicted, the analysis of police kettling and audio from Palestine. Cut and pasting of links from the BBC is supporting their monopoly. I wonder does the original post pay his/her license fee. Of course Indymedia is propaganda but then so is the BBC. They propagate for the status quo. (not the band although they did get too much airtime on TOTPs) The government provides their budget after all. All media is propaganda and the mainstream media is entertainment. The BBC wants to discredit the BNP not because they are fascists but because they are a rising political force and threaten the status quo. The three men who you describe as local are discredited also and this has bearing anyone who challenges the BNP. Would we be surprised if the BNP uses the video clip to argue that violent crime is a problem in that area? May be a little far fetched but it would not be hard for them to use this clip to argue any point that they wish to distort.

The BBC has their agenda and many people of Asian descent have been victimized. Let’s put it this way. I am glad I am not a young Muslim male, of Asian decent, in this country today. Mind you, I did enjoy being a young Irish man in this country during the 80’s and 90’s. Different times now.

Do you see that using I am using the term of ‘Asian decent’ to identify these men and others but identity is a very difficult thing to capture. I am sure it suited the BBC journalist to call these men Asian as to give the piece context but of course it is sensational shit. We don’t know how these men identify themselves. Maybe they do see themselves as Asian, English, or even British for that matter. I think it suited the original poster to see these men as Asian. I don’t know why.

I got what you meant about ‘by deed’ however there was always potential for these men’s action to escalate in to something more and of course it did. Could it have been worse? Of course it could and what if someone was murdered. Would it been worth the effort then?

The fact is that the BNP is fascist but they are a limited force and will never get to the power that Hitler got. There was and is many fascist groups in the world most of the never saw power and rightly so. In England you had the Mosley and in Ireland we had O’ Duffy’s Blueshirts. O’ Duffy was one the first commanders of the Irish Police Force (An Gardai Shoicana). That’s telling isn’t it?

The three guys who squared up to the BNP were full of machismo and left with egg on their face. Why did they react so hastily and fail. What if they had arranged a demonstration from other locals with different ethnic identities? I would have shown solidarity and stood with these men if I was asked. What if all these who disagreed with the BNP came out to the street? I think the BNP would have left the area very quickly. People power does work but it needs to be organized by the people and not just hot heads having a go.

By the way I am always calm - thats how I win debates.

Mr chips would you like clams with that?

my apology is now with out any reservation,

I guess my own cultural blinkers meant that I had forgotten the discourse around 'Britishness' from an Irish perspective.

You might notice that at no point have I suggested that had someone spat in my face I might not lash out at them. Or engaged in the discussion over exactly who said what to who when in that street. I belive that the reasons to spit in the face of the London leader of the BNP, a posh twat who lives off not just the UK tax payer but the German taxpayers as well, whose party may just clinch some more funds to spew their shit later today, are plenty fold and date back further that what may or may not have happened it the street yesterday.
Lets no forget that the east end of the thirty's did not give the black shirts space to organise. And the anti fascists then did more than spit.

My comments are based around the right or even duty for all decent people to confront fascists in what ever way they can whenever they show their head. Though I recognise that the BNP are in many ways an irrelevance in terms of actually achieving power they increasingly have the confidence to calmly walk through certain areas promoting their hate without fear, this is not something they could do even 10 years ago.

One of the key reasons for this is that all of the mainstream partys almost all of the mainstream press and even some parts of the left continue to co-opt their ideology. The struggle against walking blind fold into a new fascism doesnt stop at street confrontations with the BNP but it certainly helps.

I believe that a general culture of proactive resistance to them would partially help stem the spread of their posionsus ideas. This resistance needs to be as you say organised and also needs to provide alternatives, but it also needs to be generalised IE their ideas and them as people need to confronted at every turn.

Many people have chased the BNP out of their areas in the last few weeks in more or less confrontational ways. You don't necessary have the opportunity to organise some grand pan community collation when you see them on your street or in your neighbourhood.

The fact that the local lads might have come off worse (in kinda macho fighting terms) than the BNP is neither here nor there, at least they tried. And for that I salute them.

No one from the North west listen to this? Robbers? clearly "says there's more of us than there is of you"

shame fascist scum didnt get a good kicking though - always a next time

Telegraph recently had an exposé of BNP candidate Bob Bailey:

 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/bnp/7602188/BNP-mans-home-paid-for-by-German-embassy.html

He's married to Martina Borgfeldt who works at the German embassy in a home paid for by the German embassy.