Question concerning resistance actions in the UK
desparate Greek student | 04.05.2010 14:46 | Repression | Workers' Movements | Birmingham
hey everyone,
I am a Greek student in Birmingham Uni. this is my second year in England. I was wondering WHY people in England do not rise up?? why are we so silent?? it's time to stand up for our rights, for our future.. People here are quite silent I can say comparing to Greek comrades..that's not what I expected.. anarchists rarely organize demonstrations and/or massive protests against the police state at least in Birmingham city... there are cops everywhere in England..in every corner.. they are even inside the Universities.. CCTV's are EVERYWHERE.. our rights are being trespassed and people do 'nothing' to stop state terrorism. For example, nothing was organized in Birmingham for May Day..Where are the Workers?Where is our answer to the state? WHY are people silent? It seems to me that people think ok everything is good, capitalism isn't working but we can't change it and we can't wait for the elections to come.. the Tory's will be in charge very soon, and this is going to affect everyone's life.. Why people are so silent? Why don't they stand up and fight for their rights?
I don't want to sound provocative, so consider this as a sincere question from a foreign student who wants a better life and a better future for all of us..
Thanks!
'Who ever they vote for WE ARE UNGOVERNABLE'
I am a Greek student in Birmingham Uni. this is my second year in England. I was wondering WHY people in England do not rise up?? why are we so silent?? it's time to stand up for our rights, for our future.. People here are quite silent I can say comparing to Greek comrades..that's not what I expected.. anarchists rarely organize demonstrations and/or massive protests against the police state at least in Birmingham city... there are cops everywhere in England..in every corner.. they are even inside the Universities.. CCTV's are EVERYWHERE.. our rights are being trespassed and people do 'nothing' to stop state terrorism. For example, nothing was organized in Birmingham for May Day..Where are the Workers?Where is our answer to the state? WHY are people silent? It seems to me that people think ok everything is good, capitalism isn't working but we can't change it and we can't wait for the elections to come.. the Tory's will be in charge very soon, and this is going to affect everyone's life.. Why people are so silent? Why don't they stand up and fight for their rights?
I don't want to sound provocative, so consider this as a sincere question from a foreign student who wants a better life and a better future for all of us..
Thanks!
'Who ever they vote for WE ARE UNGOVERNABLE'
desparate Greek student
Comments
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a point...
04.05.2010 15:15
As a broader response, I think that the anarchist movement is so ghettoised and entirley seperated from the workers movement that we hold no sway within mainstream society. I am pleased to se this trend being reversed with militant workers blocs and the resurgence of many class based anarchist groups etc but unfortunatley, they are still the minority.
I think that the anarchist movement in this country (or at least the lifestyly bit of it that seems to consitute a fair percentage of it) has distanced itself from the average person/worker in terms of language used, class demographic, sub-cultural norms and preffered methods of action to the point where many peopel see anarchism/anarchists as so absolutley different from themselves that even if they support us, they find it hard to get involved.
As I siad earlier though, I think that the last couple of years have seen more and more within the anarchist movement get involved with class issues in a meaningful way (such as the IWW etc), so maybe the lifestylist 'fuck all you normals' trend is getting reversed - and about time!
(A) Sab x
^^^Spot on
04.05.2010 15:49
I feel it is high time for an anarchist confrence or convention where we actually discuss these issues.
I hate the fact that so many "anarchists" are essentially just anti-social lifestyle punks who just turn up drunk to demos and act like cunts. If you act like a cunt, you are a cunt regardless of your politics. This just distances anarchism from the rest of the public when many people hold anarchistic ideas without even realising it. As a movement we need to move away from this mentality of being outside society. Squatting etc. is good but it is irrelevant to an older worker with children and/or family to support, they can't just drop out.
We need to move away from the anarchist ninja smashing windows image too, black bloc is fine if there is a real reason for it beyond ritual and just breaking some windows and giving the media the oppurtunity on a plate to tarnish anarchism as just pissed of kids and anti-social punks. I loathe the idea some peope have of a couple of smashed windows and a bit of grafitti and the ignorant workers will rise from their slumber to smash the state.
We need to be within society to change and work towards by being engaged in wider movements, being on the street and educating people.
At a time of world crisis of capitalism it is absolutely ridiculous what anarchism has failed to do or even the left as a whole.
We need direction and I don't mean top down malarky, I mean a progressive conference of anarchists or even the whole left. I would love to see an International too.
I would take it upon myself to organise one but I live in Aberdeen...... Which I doubt anyone would travel to somewhere in the middle of the U.K would be best to allow the most amount of people to come. (Even Londoners who never seem to leave London)
(AA)
Direct Action
04.05.2010 15:51
I don't think that Anarchists are separated from the Worker's struggle at all..Anarchists fight both for workers and for the right to live in a free society..and I think this is what Workers desire as well.. I agree that the anarchist movement is ghettoized not only in the UK but in Greece as well, but as years go by, we see that Greek comrades resist against e.g. the police state in every way they can(squatting, demonstrating, informing the public, organizing solidarity concerts ect ect) which is something that doesn't exist in England probably because of the police suppression, which is of course understood..
I can say, as a 'foreigner, that the anarchist movement in the UK region is more of an activist movement rather than a 'violent' and decisive protest/answer against many things. please correct me if I am wrong..
Plus, I think that people have to be informed, something which is not happening right now and that's probably the reason why many people are not getting involved or are afraid in a way to get in touch..
thanks for the reply anyway!
desparate Greek student
You Kay?
04.05.2010 16:21
So these days what we generally see in the UK is people either repressing their problems or just directing them to the general public in forms of 'anti-social behaviour'. I'm back in Greece now and I feel that we may well go down that route though a major battle will be fought before we determine which direction the country will take.
T
Not sure I completely agree...
04.05.2010 16:27
There is actually quite alot going on in England. There's plenty of squats, especially in London and Bristol and two protest sites [Titnore Woods in Worthing, near Brighton and the newly set up Defend Huntington Lane protest in Shropshire]. Also, for me certainly it seems like everytime I look on this site there's been another action against something shit in Bristol. Maybe that's not you're immediate area but it feels good to know people are taking action in whatever way they are able.
It can definately be hard to find people that you want to organise with but taking a trip to your local social centre or getting involved with some groups you think you might agree politically with is a great start. You said that you were disappointed that there was nothing organised for Mayday in Birmingham, maybe next year you and some friends could organise it yourselves.
"we see that Greek comrades resist against e.g. the police state in every way they can(squatting, demonstrating, informing the public, organizing solidarity concerts ect ect) which is something that doesn't exist in England "
I totally disagree with this. Aside from the places I have mentioned above, there are also demonstrations [for example the G20,EDO demos], eco villages [Bristol and Kew Bridge recently]. Also there are plenty of autonomous actions which take place throughout the UK against airport expansion, open cast coal mining, immigration and the arms trade to name but a few.
There is also the rest of the UK to take into consideration. Lots of stuff has been happening in Scotland over the last few months with the Mainshill Solidarity Camp and also in Rossport in Ireland, local people and supporters from all over the world are constantly battling against Shell.
There are lots of different ways to take action, and lots of different targets to choose from. You don't have to be out on the streets physically fighting the police, and that's not always the best tactic.
Hmm
well well ...
04.05.2010 17:15
me
lets all be like greece
04.05.2010 17:26
Mmmmm.... i wonder why he is even in the UK studying if Greece is so much better?
why? why? why?
The fact is Greece is a hole and we don't want to follow their ways into the same shiteness.
And most people hate "anarchists" because they just want to destroy everything and get pissed and drugged up. As the poster above says - most of them are cunts.
Alfy
(AA)
04.05.2010 17:34
I live in probably one of the most apathetic cities in the whole of the U.K but we even managed to get some stuff started up here.
(AA)
Anarchism in the UK
04.05.2010 17:59
To answer a few things around a national conference, well last year was the first UK-wide anarchist conference held in London in June 2009. Around 300 people participated to discuss and look at these problems. Though I admit the conference didn't go far enough for those that attended but we did get a good reflection of the anarchist mentality in the UK. Sadly it seems that there was little or no effort put in place by people outside London to organise a follow up this year. Its one thing complaining about why UK-wide things always happen in London, but when no group steps up take on calling anything then whats the point.
There is also another question about Anarchism and the "anarchist movement". We have a lot of people which I call anarchist sympathisers which are people who support anarchist ideas but who don't participate in any groups, actions or initiatives. They may come out once a year ( or two ), or they may participate in some social or cultural "anarchist" activity like squatting, parties..etc but thats it. In London there are thousands of people who are, were, or would call themselves anarchists but those actually involved in developing a collective anarchist movement numbers only 100 - 150 people.
Secondly, this talk about anarchists being distant from a workers movement is also not completely true. There is no workers movement in the UK, if there was, it too would be ghettoised and marginal from the rest of society. Its easy to believe that anarchists are the only ones on the margins but so are all lefty parties, the trade unions and community groups. The problems of fragmentation is a problem all those on the extra-parliamentary left face. No one is doing well in this period.
Thirdly, there has been positive developments across some cities in the UK to form more coherent groups that are involved in their locality. Recently in nottingham around 20 such groups net and formed Community Action Network. I am not saying this is the way forward or that they are effective but many people in those groups have chosen to do that because of the ineffectual nature of what constitutes anarchists initiatives.
Fourthly, you have the "national" federations that have been historically marginal in the UK. The AF have around 160 members across the whole UK, Solidarity Federation (IWA) around 60 and Class War perhaps no more than 20-30. It doesn't necessarily depend on numbers but passion sadly wanes in a lot of these anarchist circles.
Lastly, and sorry for going on this long - if all the anarchists in the UK who were pissed off with the current state of our movement were to get together then it will probably be bigger than all the groups put together. The problem is that we may all be pissed off but we still lack the ambition and passion to follow thru on a project, collectively anarchists are political impotent, we fail to discard things that don't work, or try hard enough to make them work when they fail, we also spend too long argue about things we disagree on rather than construct collective initiatives on things that we do agree on.
Having been involved for almost 13 years in anarchists politics, we have had some very strong moments and some success, but we are only as good as our last success and sadly, recently we've had very few.
Red & Black Solidarity
London Anarchist
don't want to be like Greece
04.05.2010 18:38
I am guessing people don't follow the Greek way because they don't want to live in a shambles like Greece. Maybe, just maybe, our country is in a better state than yours because of this?
I also find it strange that if he doesn't think much of the UK people, why has he come here to study? Why not stay in Greece if it is so great.
Anarchy is an emotion response. But when you actually look at the Outcome (The outcome is only really what most people are interested in), you can see anarchism just attracts walter mitty types, cunts, social misfits, people who dont want to work, and other degenerates. If we were all like anarchists then I think that getting food onto people's plates would be an impossible task.
The outcome looks bad if we follow Greece's example
Craig M
Now Now Craig
04.05.2010 18:59
PS: No matter who wins the next UK election, you will very likely realise how precarious your standard of living really is.
T
Don't Feed the Troll
04.05.2010 19:00
London Anarchist
Organise!
04.05.2010 20:32
I have to say I feel positive at the amount of frustration about the lack of a cohesive movement in UK on Indymedia. Hopefully from that frustration we can get some work done. The next couple of years should be prime organising time for anarchists of all trends, be it organising against cuts to local services in your community, setting up unemployed groups, being involved in community projects like people's kitchens and community allotments to help get healthy food to those that need it, organising free parties so we can meet, talk and have fun for free, producing free literature and running free skill shares, or confronting the state and the far right in the streets.
Another thing that feels like a turning point is that the militant liberal activist scene in the UK seems to have lost its steam some what. Hopefully this may mean people giving up on reformist single issue campaigns for anti-statist revolutionary politics. To reflect this, a moderated explicitly anarchist news site for the UK would be good, something like infoshop news.
Hopefully we can all look past our petty differences to fight the larger battle.
Tom
AF
04.05.2010 20:48
@
Same as it ever was
04.05.2010 21:02
The same goes for the 'anarchist movement' here. During the Spanish Revolution the anarchist Emma Goldman tried to organise funding and solidarity here for the Spanish anarchists. She was left frustrated and angered by the paranoia and in-fighting.
Same as it ever was...
in situ
bread and games
05.05.2010 11:06
''Eco villages'' sucker please! These are not alternatives, they are distractions.
I think the above posters defending the UKs activist effort on fighting the system are seriously deluding themselves and not really understanding what state oppression is all about.
Think about it, 4years to shut down one factory (EDO). All that effort on publicity,films,info nites,wednesday noise demos,parties,marches,arrests etc for what? People look at this spectacle and shake their heads in disbelief. Don't be the flies swarming around the shit, be the shovel that clears up the mess.
Yep the activist scene is exciting and fun but also it is ineffective and elitist. Its very easy to become disilusioned with it, especially if you come from the poorer sectors of society as the focus is too much on standing out and being contrary, rather than working together.
torka
Of relevance when trying to build a mass movement
05.05.2010 11:29
It is thinking like THIS that is a big part of the problem. YES "concern about the environment" is a distraction if you think that the ONLY fight worth fighting is socicalism vs capitalism and the environment be damned. Just like the "enviros" might be convinced "a plague on both your houses" because industiral civilization socialism might be no better for the environment than industrial civilization capitalism.
But "distraction" in this sense should NOT be equated with "working for the other side". We need to learn to live with and work with others who have a different order of priorities than we do, learn how to at least keep out of each other's way. And this is NOT just about "environmentalism". There are others out there for whom some other issue that affect them DIRECTLY (rightfully) gets a higher place on their priority list. Sorry if you disagree, but when a fight gets serious I'd rather have by my side those who feel their own flesh is in the line of fire rather than allies who are there "because of ideological theory".
By all means, if you want to stay marginalized, want to stay fragmented inot miniscule ineffective groups, dead right "in theory" but dead useless in practice, just carry on as usual. To organize a MASS movement you have to (at least temporarily) forget about what your theory says the folks who make up this mass SHOULD want and try to find out what they actually want. Then somehow manage to work with that. We do NOT get others to work with us by telling them that they are wrong to want what they want; that they should instead want what we want them to want!
MDN
Many of the "anarchists" I know...
05.05.2010 11:42
I would like to see our anarchist movement come to life, build and make positive change in society but I can't do it alone, and it's like hitting my head against a brick wall trying to get people to do anything.
I don't mean to generalise, because there are very good activists out there, but I think the lazy ones are bigger in numbers!
You then get other people, who don't want to get involved in activist groups because of "hierarchy" and then use it as an excuse to do nothing! I respect their decision not to work in groups with hierarcy, but then they don't do anything themselves is doing more harm than good.
Anna
reject the users
05.05.2010 12:41
You got me right on the MASS movement topic, I aint looking for that, it wont happen -better off in small cells - much more effective.
@Anna, spot on! Lazy,selfish, privalleged, opportunistic and insinsere, basically users - and if readers dont believe me just check out any gathering,bookfair or after action party, the place will be crawling with 'em.Avoiding clearing up,washing up,cooking etc
The scene is too much like a social dating club for the incapable.
How's this for an idea. A complete rejection of the systems social drugs - you wanna drink, then brew your own. Recycle your bottles (as in, clean, then re-use) You wanna smoke, then grow your own. You wanna eat, then grow it. You wanna be free, then get off your fuckin' knees and get serious.
torka
..
05.05.2010 13:33
Dude, I am not a man, I am a girl.. I never said that Greece is doing the right thing and UK is not.. I came here to study because I want to see different places and people. if this annoys you, then you should probably join the BNP or something and don't write your trash in indymedia.
You sound like a fascist and that's quite annoying.. I have to say that many ''anarchists'' in the UK are quite patriotic as you..and I am really sorry for you man.
plus, i didn't say about following the Greek example.. what I am saying is that UK anarchism is not developed with everyday actions..that's what I am telling you.. I consider the movement in the UK more of an ACTIVIST one rather than a violent one as in Greece..
England is one of the most passive countries and people simply do nothing to change that.that's what I am trying to tell you.. I am not here to judge if you are doing the right or wrong thing.. i can't judge people's attitudes and i will never do..I am just expressing a sincere opinion and trying to get sincere answers from you..
Thanks anyway for the responses to all of you..
See you at the barricades..
Cheers comrades!
desparate Greek student
@ Torka
05.05.2010 14:46
"How's this for an idea. A complete rejection of the systems social drugs - you wanna drink, then brew your own. Recycle your bottles (as in, clean, then re-use) You wanna smoke, then grow your own. You wanna eat, then grow it. You wanna be free, then get off your fuckin' knees and get serious."
Really interesting how you slag off eco villages then come out with this. Is growing your own vegetables suddenly not the same thing if you're doing it on a squatted piece of land?
It seems to me like people are confused about what 'taking action' is. So, nothing is successful until we completely overthrow this government? Shortsighted, much?
What have you done recently?
No one interested in a conference where we could discuss all this in person?
05.05.2010 20:14
No one would come if it was in the most northern part of the UK.
(AA)
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