I'm not a fan of Islam4UK, but why shouldn't they be allowed to march through Wootton Bassett?

The state military are allowed to do it to promote their jingoism, brainwash their cannon fodder, and celebrate the murder of people overseas. So I'd rather Islam4UK is doing something useful like protesting against this instead of promoting some nutty brand of religion.

This group sounds a bit statist.

United Shades of Britain - sounds great

Why shouldn't Islam4UK march through Wootton Bassett? Because they're Fascists!

 http://www.youtube.com/ukfightback

Right just to verify your viewpoint on this. Islam4UK fascists are not allowed to parade down Wootton Bassett but English Imperialists and murderers may continue to be celebrated as they are. In this instance i'd say one set of 'ists' is a lot more dangerous that the other; and they are already parading on a weekly basis.

Certainly Islam4UK have elements of fascism - authoritarianism and things like sexism and homophobia. But then so does mainstream Islam and Christianity to a lesser extent.

The difference is they are a tiny fringe of a small minority in this country. If this was a majority Muslim country I'd be worried and up for stopping them, but it isn't, so I'm not.

Groups like EDL and BNP on the other hand are more dangerous because they claim to represent majority groups and they are useful to the existing regime. History tells us the risks of allowing such groups to go unchecked.

Far from being merely an anti-war protest, Islam4UK supported imposing what they called 'Sharia law' (but more realistically was a specific version of a legal system seen in certain Arab states) in the UK. They had links to extremist organisations, such as Al-Muhajiroun and Al Ghurabaa. They very much were promoting a "nutty brand" of Islam, and the Muslims who founded USoB wanted to speak out against being associated with Islam4UK. The largest groups on Facebook relating to the Wootton Bassett march heavily featured anti-Muslim sentiment and racism, and this FB group was originally set up to counter that and demonstrate that Islam4UK do not represent all Muslims.

Personally, I wouldn't have banned the march, as much as I disagreed with it. The group allows for varied opinions, and as a liberal I value freedom of expression when it is within the bound of the law, no matter how distasteful (I also, personally, wouldn't ban a BNP rally so long as it stayed within the law). I also never believed the march would actually happen. Choudary often proposes marches, whips up anti-Muslim hatred, then fades away again. When he proposed a march in October 09 in London, the "March for Sharia", the Express ran with the headline "Now Muslims demand Sharia". That, to my mind, is one of the biggest dangers of groups like Islam4UK. Whilst representing only a tiny minority of Muslims, he is creating anger and hatred amongst groups , including the EDL who started as a response to groups similar to Islam4UK.

Either way, they're banned now, and the group has widened its perspective. United Shades of Britain stands against both groups like Islam4UK and groups such as the EDL and BNP. We also do not agree with confrontational street clashes, and will condemn violent disruption be it far-right or far-left in origin. Our group is made up of 14,000 members with a wide variety of views and backgrounds. Many of our members protested against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. In this group, however, we are united by a desire to not see violence and disruption on our streets, to challenge supporters of terrorism and racist attacks, and to do so through communication and education.

In any social dispute both sides will exaggerate the magnitude of their conflict, their opponent's extremism, and their opponent's ideological bias. With this in mind, anybody trying to encourage communication will come under fire from both sides for 'creating a platform' for the other side. Here we are accused of being statist and pandering to imperialists. Elsewhere we are considered to be promoting submission to radical Islam. Realistically, we are neither. We are trying to cut through the hatred and perpetuation of polarised stances. Through talking to each other, and facilitating a safe space for sensible debate from both 'sides' we are uncovering that we have more in common than apart. All of us want no more terrorist attacks, no inequality and hatred, and a safe future for our children.

Come join in, we have an extensive list of topics being debated in our discussion area. We welcome constructive debate.

But this group sounds shit. Joining together to end hatred and tension within the world's second imperialist nation, while allowing it the country to operate with the same imperialist principles and without addressing the causes behind it is simplistic and plain right stupid. Yet another group created by middle class hippies.

The United Shades of Britain are opposed to bigotry, racism and intolerance in all its forms. We welcome all members providing they stick to the rules of the group. For those that have particular concerns or questions feel free to join the Facebook group where you can express them.

 http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=385424445082&ref=ts

We are interested in serious debate with sensible people.

"We are trying to cut through the hatred and perpetuation of polarised stances. Through talking to each other, and facilitating a safe space for sensible debate from both 'sides' we are uncovering that we have more in common than apart. All of us want no more terrorist attacks, no inequality and hatred, and a safe future for our children."

Well, OK, fair enough, that seems like a laudable goal.

Forgive me for being initially suspicious, just sounded a bit similar to the EDL. Personally, I'm not a liberal against all extremism - I'm all for militant anti-fascism and anti-state anarchism - but I can see your point of view, and it sounds like it could be a good thing for what it is.

Some of those angry closeted EDL pissheads could do with a bit of hippy peace and love!

Just sitting in my armchair enjoying the Greek sun and watching people around me preparing to take strike action against their bosses. Why would I even think of taking that sort of 'confrontational' approach??

Also i'm unsure of your definition of extremist.

Are British troops extremist?

Is the British Government Extremist?

Are the companies we work for extremist?

Or is it just fringe groups we are looking into.

And one last thing. I like your approach on sensible dialogue. You've nailed that definition. Spot on.

"T"

The link to the Facebook group is up there, join it and post your comments and questions. Lets discuss this in an open forum.

"Also i'm unsure of your definition of extremist."

Go and find out then, it sounds like you've got plenty of time on your hands.

Both groups are support of the "clash of civizilations" and the "war on terror" but they are on "opposite sides", they are both clearly used by the corporate media and the state to justify the current imperial agenda, of course this is just a "coincidence"...

Thanks for your reply.

We're definitely not similar to the EDL :)

We all have our own ways of tackling things, and for our group we just don't think shouting 'fascists' at the EDL will help matters. We don't disagree that they are acting in a fascistic manner and there are strong racist elements in their group and their rhetoric, but we want disavow their members of the viewpoints they have been misled to, rather than heightening confrontation and risking further alienating people. To that end we, for example, run campaigns of myth-busting and fact-checking, whether there's a crazy tabloid scare story, or a BNP make-believe video doing the rounds, it can be useful to have a quick go-to for the true story.

Feel free to pop in and debate with us though. Pretty much the only group that hasn't come in to chat is militant anti-fascists.

"Feel free to pop in and debate with us though. Pretty much the only group that hasn't come in to chat is militant anti-fascists."

I'd like to but I'm afraid I don't do Facebook for various reasons, although I know it can be a useful tool to reach people. Good luck anyway, a multi-pronged attack on things like the EDL can't be a bad thing.

 http://www.unitedshades.org.uk/

The site's up!

There's a blog section, with opinion pieces and bits of info and short articles, and an FAQ which has myths and prejudices that we come across frequently, taken to bits and shown to be totally untrue.

Want to claim the flag back off racists and fascists? Send us a photo for the Fly the Flag campaign. For me, Britain is great because of our multiculturalism, tolerance and freedoms, the backwards-looking empire-missing views of racists who claim our flag as their own don't represent the things about Britain I'm proud of!


We welcome ideas and contributions, so if you have thoughts or an article you'd want us to add, get in touch either using the link on the page, or through an admin of the FB group.

The party is rocking in the group at the moment, so if you read this before about 4am, come along and join in!

It doesn't matter which religion you follow, or what background you come from, because there is one thing that links us all to each other: we are all human beings.

:)

OK, well the big Union Jack makes me feel a bit uncomfortable, but whatever...it's just a flag. I'd prefer an anarchist black and red....

However, I hope you also include all of the pagan and pre-monotheistic religious dates too on your front page. The ones that Christianity and Islam and the other nicked as part of their march through Europe and the rest of the world. I hope you also include atheistic events too... Though personally, I find the idea of organised religions pretty silly, so the basis of bringing different denominations of silliness together is a bit difficult to fathom.

Hullo,

I've not personally helped with the calender, but just looking at this month I can see dates marked including the non-religious Earth Day, as well as Buddist, Hindu and Zoroastrian dates, and even May Day, so I'm guessing they've tried their best to include everything they can think of, and certainly it's not just the Abrahamic faiths that are represented. However I'll pass on the comment. If there's any dates you've noticed missed that you'd like included, feel free to send us a comment on our feedback form and we'll add it in asap.

We're about bringing together people, not religions, and our admin team and membership features people of many different faiths, and those who are not religious.

If we're going to tackle hatred and intolerance, best to have a united front to do it, rather than splitting off into different groups based on religion or politics or disagreements of ideology. This is something that affects us all. We should all stand up to terrorism, violence, prejudice and hatred, wherever it comes from.

Feel free to pop in and chat with us on our FB group.

Aoife

Well the idea is pretty laudable, even if it's not what many people on here might immediately want to get involved with. Good luck with it :)