Freezergate
Jacquie Knox | 16.03.2010 22:27 | Animal Liberation | Culture
So what exactly happened at Pogo’s recently?
Many people are asking questions and demanding answers. The focus of the whole debacle seems to be some non-vegan produce in a freezer.
Many people are asking questions and demanding answers. The focus of the whole debacle seems to be some non-vegan produce in a freezer.
Much speculation and confusion has surrounded exactly what took place at Pogo’s 2 weeks ago, the root cause of which appears to be that non-vegan produce was found in one of Pogo’s freezers.
In a statement issued by the Co-op they claimed that during the Christmas holidays the freezers at a local Somerfield store broke down which lead to Somerfield’s throwing the contents of these freezers away. This food, including dairy and meat products, was then stored in a freezer at the back of Pogo’s vegan restaurant for several months.
A spokesperson for Pogo’s said “Some of us who are involved in the co-op and some people from surrounding squats went down to salvage some food, which was otherwise going to waste, including dairy products, frozen vegetables and meat.”
The discovery of these products on the premises led to widespread disillusionment and discontent, resulting in the direct action (removal of the ‘meat’) followed by a meeting, the outcome of which was that the members of Pogo’s co-op resigned. It had been hoped that everyone would be able to continue working together, however it was the co-op members decision to resign and discontinue volunteering at the cafe.
However, underlying issues also emerged from these events, with concerns being aired that the fact that those who had previously been running Pogo were even storing meat in the freezer of a vegan space, regardless of where it has come from, showed how little respect they have for the vegan and animal rights community.
It was felt that as such an established hub of vegan activity and networking within the vegan community, such an establishment should be run by vegans for many and obvious reasons. It also transpired that most of the co-op members are not vegan, which previously was a relatively unknown fact and has been greeted with widespread surprise by patrons.
With regard to accusations that the outcome was a ‘revolution’ or a ‘coup’, it is and was neither and no-one was “ousted” or “overthrown” nor were there “secret” meetings or any kind of “conspiracy”.
A co-operative is defined by the International Co-operative Alliance's Statement as “An autonomous association of persons united voluntarily to meet their common economic, social, and cultural needs and aspirations through a jointly-owned and democratically-controlled enterprise”.
Many people did not feel the co-op was being run democratically and that some members were unapproachable, which in turn may explain the use of direct action taken in this case. Members also expressed that they were becoming frustrated with the nepotism and favouritism shown by this co-op.
PogoBlue, from the new Co-op crew, stated “People have felt uncomfortable and undervalued by the Pogo Co-op for a long time. Many people in the past have left purely due to the attitudes of that Co-op. (And will now be returning due to these recent changes).”
Pogo’s blog comment section also shows some emotive comments from anarchists who feel they have lost an important space, but the feeling is that they need to understand that this is not their space to do with as they please but that they should respect the ideals and basic principals of a VEGAN space, which seems to be the crux of the matter.
“Not only was there meat stored in the garage, the ex co-op members were consuming dairy products in pogo” said a volunteer.
A Pogo customer commented “Some people could see that non-vegans were taking over. What would have been next? The little jug of cow secretion on the counter for those who must have it in their coffee? Skipped dead cow burgers? It was the start of a slippery slope which had to be nipped in the bud. In light of recent long standing vegan products adding dairy to products such as Sosmix and Green and Blacks, vegans feel they are being further ostracised and marginalised and to find the same thing happening in Pogo’s was just a step too far.’
The volunteers who were handed the task of re-opening Pogo’s on Thursday 11th March, along with the help of some of the leaving co-op members, have prepared a “Mission statement” which will help to redefine Pogo’s original principles and draw a line under this sad situation and hopefully turn it into an opportunity for renewal and a fresh start.
The Mission Statement reads as follows:-
“Pogo is a completely vegan cafe for the community. The open collective works to promote a philosophy of animal liberation and respect for the environment through delicious vegan food. It's a place where yuppies and weirdoes sit side by side with almost no problems. Dogs welcome!”
Anyone wishing to become involved in Pogo’s new or ex volunteers should email;
pogocafe@googlemail.com
We can DO this, together.
In a statement issued by the Co-op they claimed that during the Christmas holidays the freezers at a local Somerfield store broke down which lead to Somerfield’s throwing the contents of these freezers away. This food, including dairy and meat products, was then stored in a freezer at the back of Pogo’s vegan restaurant for several months.
A spokesperson for Pogo’s said “Some of us who are involved in the co-op and some people from surrounding squats went down to salvage some food, which was otherwise going to waste, including dairy products, frozen vegetables and meat.”
The discovery of these products on the premises led to widespread disillusionment and discontent, resulting in the direct action (removal of the ‘meat’) followed by a meeting, the outcome of which was that the members of Pogo’s co-op resigned. It had been hoped that everyone would be able to continue working together, however it was the co-op members decision to resign and discontinue volunteering at the cafe.
However, underlying issues also emerged from these events, with concerns being aired that the fact that those who had previously been running Pogo were even storing meat in the freezer of a vegan space, regardless of where it has come from, showed how little respect they have for the vegan and animal rights community.
It was felt that as such an established hub of vegan activity and networking within the vegan community, such an establishment should be run by vegans for many and obvious reasons. It also transpired that most of the co-op members are not vegan, which previously was a relatively unknown fact and has been greeted with widespread surprise by patrons.
With regard to accusations that the outcome was a ‘revolution’ or a ‘coup’, it is and was neither and no-one was “ousted” or “overthrown” nor were there “secret” meetings or any kind of “conspiracy”.
A co-operative is defined by the International Co-operative Alliance's Statement as “An autonomous association of persons united voluntarily to meet their common economic, social, and cultural needs and aspirations through a jointly-owned and democratically-controlled enterprise”.
Many people did not feel the co-op was being run democratically and that some members were unapproachable, which in turn may explain the use of direct action taken in this case. Members also expressed that they were becoming frustrated with the nepotism and favouritism shown by this co-op.
PogoBlue, from the new Co-op crew, stated “People have felt uncomfortable and undervalued by the Pogo Co-op for a long time. Many people in the past have left purely due to the attitudes of that Co-op. (And will now be returning due to these recent changes).”
Pogo’s blog comment section also shows some emotive comments from anarchists who feel they have lost an important space, but the feeling is that they need to understand that this is not their space to do with as they please but that they should respect the ideals and basic principals of a VEGAN space, which seems to be the crux of the matter.
“Not only was there meat stored in the garage, the ex co-op members were consuming dairy products in pogo” said a volunteer.
A Pogo customer commented “Some people could see that non-vegans were taking over. What would have been next? The little jug of cow secretion on the counter for those who must have it in their coffee? Skipped dead cow burgers? It was the start of a slippery slope which had to be nipped in the bud. In light of recent long standing vegan products adding dairy to products such as Sosmix and Green and Blacks, vegans feel they are being further ostracised and marginalised and to find the same thing happening in Pogo’s was just a step too far.’
The volunteers who were handed the task of re-opening Pogo’s on Thursday 11th March, along with the help of some of the leaving co-op members, have prepared a “Mission statement” which will help to redefine Pogo’s original principles and draw a line under this sad situation and hopefully turn it into an opportunity for renewal and a fresh start.
The Mission Statement reads as follows:-
“Pogo is a completely vegan cafe for the community. The open collective works to promote a philosophy of animal liberation and respect for the environment through delicious vegan food. It's a place where yuppies and weirdoes sit side by side with almost no problems. Dogs welcome!”
Anyone wishing to become involved in Pogo’s new or ex volunteers should email;
![](/img/maillink.gif)
We can DO this, together.
Jacquie Knox
Homepage:
http://www.pogocafe.co.uk/
Comments
Hide the following 36 comments
Dogs welcome!?!?
16.03.2010 23:59
emma
they couldn't if they tried
17.03.2010 01:22
as for the yuppies and wierdos comment, way to insult any potential customers.
feck off the lot of you.
i won't be entering the place again. countdown to new ownership tick tock tick tock.
rational one
Zzzzz... is this really news?
17.03.2010 09:16
and re: "Dogs welcome": Dogs aren't carnivores, they are omnivores like humans. So whilst a vegan diet isn't one their wolf ancestors would have eaten in the wild, they can live perfectly healthily on it. In fact vets often recommend it for dogs with certain health problems.
good luck with the cafe anyway.
vegan
lolz
17.03.2010 10:32
get a grip
won't see me again
17.03.2010 11:00
i wonder how many new customers you are likely to attract, beyond the animals rights activist minority, with the attitude you seem to have (reflected in your statement).
i am often perceived by others as wierd or strange or different and sometimes i might refer to myself as being a bit wierd. however i don't find the thought of spending time in a space run by people who describe their customers as being "wierdos and yuppies" attractive AT ALL.
not only does it ignore the reality that most yuppies are bloody wierd, and that one's persons wierd is another person's perfectly normal, it seems like a poor attempt at humour that really fails on all counts. not funny, not interesting, not respectful.
i don't mind challenging or provoking humour when its actually funny (google lenny bruce for a great example) but this isn't. it is just plain dull.
pardon the pun but it all seems ever so hackneyed, and not in the good sense of that word. hackney is a great place, and pogo once added to that greatness, now even more than ever pogo is depleting the greatness of the place.
this makes me feel sad and frustrated as i consider myself an animal rights activists as well as an anarchist and many other "things".
unusual but not wierd, nor a yuppy
Yuppies
17.03.2010 11:44
Class War
Yuppies Fuck Off
Till All Are Free
Pogo's is bunk
17.03.2010 12:37
“... the ex co-op members were consuming dairy products in pogo” said a volunteer.
A Pogo customer commented “Some people could see that non-vegans were taking over. What would have been next? The little jug of cow secretion on the counter for those who must have it in their coffee? Skipped dead cow burgers?"
this is obvious crap and anyone who operates in this way is not to be trusted
Pogo's will not last long with this mentality and the idea that it wil somehow become more democratic through slander innuendo sensationalism witchhunts and lies is laughable-
and yes the "yuppies and wierdos" comment is truly bizarre- who do the new committee see as weirdos? me and you... Pogos' was always a place to escape yuppies
another lost customer
Shimano
Police stooges
17.03.2010 13:14
"You can think some of us are pompous and dictatorial if you like, I really don’t care. Some of us just want to be safe! Calling police to arrest someone for drugs would be a last resort as far as I am concerned, after a warning has been given that it must not happen again on the premises.
But if someone wants to call the police on this guy they should NOT in any way be made fearful of reprisals for doing this if they feel it is a necessary way to deal with an ongoing problem. Such a problem seriously threatens the reputation of Pogo so it’s worth taking a firm line on it.
Going straight edge would be a good plan too."
says all you need to know about their attitudes to anarchism and state power
snoman
Other problems
17.03.2010 13:30
Why when vegan food can be so imaginative and inspiring is it felt appropriate to offer mini-burgers / sausage and chips for the kids and lots of adult burgers too. All with soy based cheese alternatives. This is just reinforcing the meat agenda rather than showing a radical and dynamic move away from it. It is also lazy cooking.
Use your imaginations, create something truly spectacular that shows off teh vitality of vegan food and attracts others to come and try something wonderful and different. Offering pale imitations of meat based foods will not attract those that want to try vegan food. And surely part of the ethos of this place should be expanding the world of vegan food to those that are skeptical?
***
who is jacqui knox?
17.03.2010 13:41
i have never met or heard of anyone called jacqui knox - who are you? is this article actually written and posted by the "new" pogo collective? please let me know so i can consider whether to continue spending my hard-earned cash in your establishment again.
by the way i do agree with the above post about the food, you would do well to heed it. i don't like her as a person but ms marmitelovers shifts in the kitchen are sadly missed by many of your customers, perhaps she could pass on some recipes for other cooks to learn and use?
finally, are you aware that many outside the animal rights scene, especially people of colour, believe the myth that their is a link between animal rights and racism?
i know it is a very weak link and that most of us, in theory at least if not practise (with a few notable exceptions) - "they" (by which i mean many many non-animal rights activists) do not.
what work do you have planned to open pogo up to the local community in a way that will create a more racially mixed customer base for pogo?
hackneyite
indymedia and Pogo have gone to the dogs
17.03.2010 14:01
"Dogs aren't carnivores, they are omnivores like humans. So whilst a vegan diet isn't one their wolf ancestors would have eaten in the wild, they can live perfectly healthily on it"
This is such drivel, just look at the teeth in a dog's mouth to disprove this. They are adapted to be able to grasp their fleeing prey and rip the flesh apart using canine teeth and they have little in the way of broad grinding back teeth for breaking down the cell walls of tough plant material. Dogs cannot "live perfectly healthily on it [vegan diet]". They can probably survive in the same way that you could "survive" on an Atkins diet but in no way would it be healthy. The only time you'll see dogs actively choosing to eat plants for themselves is when they occasionally eat couch grass presumed for medicinal reasons. So stop imposing your (unnatural but acceptable in your case) life style choice on entirely different species to yourself. This is animal abuse pure and simple. Vegans should not own carnivorous pets such as dogs and cats if they genuinely care about animals.
emma
just another list of reasons to boycott pogo
17.03.2010 14:04
h@ackneyite
animal rights and racism
17.03.2010 14:17
"Billions of animals are murdered globally each year for nothing but their flavour! Considering that, a few dead rich Jews are a blessing."
add this to the threats to call the cops on comrades with drug dependencies
a nasty lot Vegan does not have mean left anarchist and clearly doesnt for Jacquie and co
JonA
Homepage:
http://pogocafe.wordpress.com/2010/03/04/the-end-as-we-know-it/#comments
@ emma
17.03.2010 14:25
"Dogs aren't carnivores, they are omnivores like humans. So whilst a vegan diet isn't one their wolf ancestors would have eaten in the wild, they can live perfectly healthily on it"
This is such drivel, just look at the teeth in a dog's mouth to disprove this. They are adapted to be able to grasp their fleeing prey and rip the flesh apart using canine teeth and they have little in the way of broad grinding back teeth for breaking down the cell walls of tough plant material. Dogs cannot "live perfectly healthily on it [vegan diet]". They can probably survive in the same way that you could "survive" on an Atkins diet but in no way would it be healthy. The only time you'll see dogs actively choosing to eat plants for themselves is when they occasionally eat couch grass presumed for medicinal reasons. So stop imposing your (unnatural but acceptable in your case) life style choice on entirely different species to yourself. This is animal abuse pure and simple. Vegans should not own carnivorous pets such as dogs and cats if they genuinely care about animals."
Stop showing yourself up.
Fido
@ JonA
17.03.2010 17:21
Threatening to call the police is another controversial one. It would be the response of a lot of people to a last resort where someone was refusing to leave. People do tend to do what the police tell them so it can be a peaceful way to diffuse a situation. It's not something I've ever done, partly because I've had alternatives and more recently because I've become concious of the roll of the police in this system. Rather than writing someone off for having this opinion, I'd recommend they read "State of Siege" which is about the policing of the miners strike.
I didn't mean that Pogo's coop should fuck off but that they should think about scrapping their crap new mission statement, or that they should educate themselves such that they came to understand why it is offensive.
Till all are free
@emma: vegan dogs
17.03.2010 17:51
I realise anyone can edit wikipedia, but:
"Unlike an obligate carnivore, such as a member of the cat family with its shorter small intestine, a dog is neither dependent on meat-specific protein nor a very high level of protein in order to fulfill its basic dietary requirements. Dogs are able to healthily digest a variety of foods, including vegetables and grains, and can consume a large proportion of these in their diet. In the wild, canines often eat available plants and fruits."
I've known many dogs that are very healthy on a vegan diet. Wasn't the oldest dog in the UK fed a vegan diet? I seem to remember reading that a year or so ago. It may be "unnatural" but so is most of the meaty dog food that gets fed to dogs.
Assuming it was Pogos people genuinely posting this article and not police or anti-vegan trolls, it was a pretty stupid idea seeing how it just attracts comments from nutters and trolls like emma, and people with personal grievances. I don't think the world really needs to know about your internal politics, except for your adversaries who welcome the opportunity to shit-stir.
(Not linked to Pogos, by the way, although I have been there a few times. And proud to be a "weirdo", don't know why people are so upset at being called this)
vegan
I support the new co-op 100%
17.03.2010 20:01
I support a lot of causes (not just vegan ones) and hope Pogos will be a space for all that good stuff (anti-arms, environmentalist, etc). But it's right that a vegan cafe should be run by vegans.
Vegan Cafe Run By....Vegans! Simples!
Wow! What a row and perhaps with little understanding.
17.03.2010 21:37
Why did you conclude THAT? Look, I'm an anarchist. I don't even eat very much meat so could scarcely be considered very pro meat. But if you went and "forcibly removed" my meat (or my friend's meat) you better believe I'd be "tetchy" and that would have NOTHING to do with my being "pro-meat".
Understand? When I let the powers of the state rule over me I do that because they have more guns. NOBODY does to me without my agreement unless by being able to make good on their implied threat. Now agree with what the folks of the co-op did, to walk quietly away instead of punching out the lights of those who threw out the meat. But I would also expect them never to cooperate wiht those folks again, not ever give them the least bit of help. Not in whatever. And those that took that direct action SHOULD expect this consequence. In order to effectively use the techniques you have got to be able to predict how people will act and can't afford to wear blinders about THEIR motivations.
OH, and about dogs ---- I have never encountered a dog that aspired to be a "higher, better, more noble animal" than a dog. Eat dead animals? Given the oportunity, most self respecting dogs would have no objection to following the ways of their wolf ancesters and "making dead" that animal. LOOK at what you are saying? Do you really want to argue "a sheep is a morally better animal than a wolf"?. YOU may aspire to "rise above your animal nature" by why ask that of another animal? Do you really want to argue "Nature is immoral" (as opposed to amoral).
MDN
@ MDN
17.03.2010 23:43
Also, as a wider point, note that the animals never got a choice about being used for meat.You should have total freedom until it infringes the freedoms of others.
Vegan Cafe Run By....Vegans! Simples!
I agree.
18.03.2010 00:09
Why when vegan food can be so imaginative and inspiring is it felt appropriate to offer mini-burgers / sausage and chips for the kids and lots of adult burgers too. All with soy based cheese alternatives. This is just reinforcing the meat agenda rather than showing a radical and dynamic move away from it. It is also lazy cooking.
Use your imaginations, create something truly spectacular that shows off teh vitality of vegan food and attracts others to come and try something wonderful and different. Offering pale imitations of meat based foods will not attract those that want to try vegan food. And surely part of the ethos of this place should be expanding the world of vegan food to those that are skeptical? "
That makes sense, and I eat meat sometimes.
fly poster.
true but
18.03.2010 09:41
couldn't agree more. the meat should have just been removed. could have been buried in the soil with a simple ceremony, or given to someone (meat-eater) who was without enough food to eat and wanted it. either way, the vegans should have just removed it.
sadly they didn't.
they removed it AND then called in the heavies (people not known to the co-op who behaved agressively at said meeting and didn't leave when asked) with a "meeting" called as such short notice that the majority of those who wanted to couldn't get to it, where the four co-op members were treated so horribly that they gave up attempts to work through the issue with communication and felt they had to walk away.
get real here - these are four people who had given up most of their waking hours for several years to work on the project that is called pogo. who had cleaned toilets, mopped floors, sat through endless meetings, working together as a team to keep the project going. you really think you would have walked away from it just because they felt a little tetchy?
anyway they haven't truly walked away, if you read their comments on the pogo blog and/or talk to them or the current pogo crew, you will find they are offering and giving whatever support they can to the new crew. they just don't feel able to continue being members of the co-op it seems. that's all.
pogo stick
What SHOULD have done depends
18.03.2010 12:08
If they expected to ever have co-operation from whoever was storing this meat there they SHOULD have told them "get your meat the hell out of there". The time for "direct action" would be AFTER refusal to do so. Repeatedly stating how evil the use of meat indicates to me that you simply don't understand the dynamics of inter human relations and that is really important to understand if you expect to be able to operate in a voluntary organization.
Taking "direct action" FIRST is the message "I don't give a damn about you, I don't have to negotiate with you, and I expect, push come to shove, that I will be able to muster more force than you" (not necessarily violent force, but power nevertheless). It's a message "willing to forgo any future cooperation from you and willing to have you in opposition to my projects".
I am pleased to hear that the fight isn't escalating and that the ex-coop folks are being helpful, not obstructive. But I think some of you don't understand how this COULD have played out. Yes, direct action was able to make the place "meat free" in the absence of "defenders". But direct action could ALSO violate the now "meat free" space (at least temporarily). The ability to use "direct action" does NOT depend on the rightness of your cause, anybody can use it, and it can be use against you as well as by you.
MDN
Who is Jacquie Knox
19.03.2010 12:05
A vegan customer
aren't we the media then?
19.03.2010 21:45
so let me get this right. some anonymous (so far) person or people gave some info to a professional journalist called jacquie knox, who has never even been to pogo cafe, and had her write the above article which is now posted on uk indymedia?
was it specifically written for indymedia or for some other website/publication? where else is it being published?
why didn't the pogo crew write their own statement, as per last time? what advantage did you think would be gained by involving a professional journalist who had never been to pogo cafe?
did she talk to all involved or just the current crew and their supporters?
on what basis do you claim she did a great job?
in what sense she did write a better article than anyone else could have?
are you really suggesting this article has no bias? seriously?
it seems as badly written, ill-informed, and as biased as anything i might read in tommorrow's edition of the sun newspaper, from where i am sitting.
perhaps i am misunderstanding though, please do help me understand?
finally, who are you and why should i trust anything you write? are you even part of pogo yourself?
this just seems to get wierder and wierder by the minute. and more depressing, too.
shocked
well done jacquie
19.03.2010 22:16
another professional journalist
@shocked
19.03.2010 22:31
customer
@ another professional journalist
19.03.2010 23:26
I never heard such a bunch of whining pussies..............
not a journalist at all
Professional gutter journalism
20.03.2010 00:01
looks like this is Jacquie here
also note that Alexis of the new management has no qualms about revealing the location of someone in rehab - see the blog- nasty
ex customer E5
Homepage:
http://www.facebook.com/people/Jacquie-Knox/100000141801190
indepedent journalist but top of her facebook list is alexis ...
20.03.2010 00:04
alexis raven bathory
APP
20.03.2010 00:29
things are going to be lively down at the cafe
scary
Haha
20.03.2010 21:59
No-one cares if you don't wanna eat there anymore, I bet ya never paid anyway.........
Alanis Morrisette
@MDN: morality of feeding dogs a vegan diet
22.03.2010 00:44
Er, not sure what you're smoking, but I don't see anyone here claiming that.
'Do you really want to argue "a sheep is a morally better animal than a wolf"'
No, you are completely missing the point. Feeding your dog vegan food is nothing about the dog's morality. Of course they would hunt and eat meat if they were a wild animal. But a "pet" dog isn't wild, it is a product of human society, there is nothing "natural" about it.
The only issue is whether it is healthy for the dog or not to have a vegan diet. And clearly it is, seeing as dogs are biologically omnivorous, like humans, and seeing as thousands of people do feed their dogs a vegan diet with no ill-effects.
It an ideal world all dogs would be wild and free so the issue wouldn't arise. But until that time, there are unwanted and discarded dogs that have to be cared for. And if you are an ethical vegan it makes sense for you to not be responsible for more animal suffering via the meat industry when caring for the dog.
There, not that complicated to understand, is it?
vegan
FYI
22.03.2010 10:50
"studies and numerous case reports have shown that nutritionally sound vegetarian companion animal diets appear to be associated with the following health benefits: increased overall health and vitality, decreased incidences of cancer, infections, hypothyroidism, ectoparasites (fleas, ticks, lice and mites), improved coat condition, allergy control, weight control, arthritis regression, diabetes regression and cataract resolution."
Fido
disabled animals
22.03.2010 13:34
rover
re: disabled animals
22.03.2010 23:10
Excellent question! I suppose it wouldn't be a problem if it was some congenital disability like blindness, but many disabilities in farmed animals are of unknown origin and could be due to things like BSE which you really wouldn't want to eat.
The cost/benefit analysis to the farmer means they aren't going to spend money diagnosing the root cause of a disability, they will just kill the animal before it costs them too much in food and sell it off to people like pet food manufacturers.
vegan
thank you
23.03.2010 00:32
i think i will stop eating that nasty stuff my human keeps putting in my bowl, now. maybe if i bark enough at her laptop she will read this and give me some healthy food. hope so.
rover