was busy earlier but am in north london, may take me an hour- would it be worth coming down? still outside tate britain is it?

Two sides are seperated outside parliment. No chance of getting to each other best to work outside the kettle.

It wasn't so much the Anti-Fascists at the police who were holding them at bay.

By 2:30 the police had pushed ALL of the counter demo into the park or onto the pavement, then kettled them and parked vans infront of them. EDL then allowed to march through, jeering and swearing, whilst people chanted "who's streets, our streets" from the pavement.

EDL ran over to wave at some builders working on Wesminster abbey, then started pissing all over the abbey hoardings. Police then kettled them, as they chanted "I'm English till I die" (do they become French upon death???)

All around a bit of a farce from both sides. Battle of cable street this was not.

Fair few Anarchos milling around. Focus was all on anti-EDL as opposed to a clearer "fuck sharia, fuck the racists" as perhaps should have been the case.

Saw loads of anti-fash getting nicked. Aboout a dozen put on a TFL bus. I think for blocking the road and not moving. The cops cleared the road and then the EDL march came through. Seemed to be about 100 of them. When they arrived at the designated protest place, about a dozen of them peed against the wall in a line! I can't wait to see the pics of that. There were tons of press around.

Lets face it, it was pretty much a useless exercise. As the above said, it was the police who held the fash at bay not the protesters. Without being too negative, it is precisely because of demos like this which is why i do not support the UAF / SWP organised demos. What is the point in "organisers" telling people to sit down in the middle of the road, then as soon as police start nicking people, they get up again straight away? Great tactic i must say! People who sit down at demos deserve to get nicked, sorry, but this tactic does not work, have you seriously not worked that out yet? Can someone please explain why people still use this tactic? Secondly, while people were sitting down their comrades were being picked off without any problem whatsoever by the police, where was the solidarity? Where were the de-arrests? You cannot help those people if you are on your fucking ass!

There were about equal 200 each Anti-Fascists and EDL, and though we arrived late - after the police kettle had formed - what seems to have happened is that the UAF tried to block the path of the EDL march at least an hour before it actually arrived, giving the police plenty of time to kettle and arrest Anti-Fascists. A bunch of weather-beaten older EDL hooligans / spotters stood around smirking as the cops kettled and nicked Anti-Fascists, and then mobiled through to start the EDL march once the cops had got most of the opposition out of the way. Keeping the Anti-Fascists loose and mobile and then throwing up a blockade at the exact moment the EDL actually arrived would have been much better.

The EDL marched "successfully" from Tate Britain to Parliament Square, grunting all the way, but it was obvious they definitely weren't welcome. I heard some pretty disgusting racial abuse from one EDL supporter, there was 1 black and 2 Asian guys on their demo (1 Asian flying a Rangers flag!) - as opposed to the probably 30% of the Anti-Fascists who were black or Asian. The idiot waving the Hammer and Sickle flag gets the Dork-of-Week award for confirming the EDL supporters' self-righteousness / world-view. EDL leader and BNP activist Chris Renton stood out like a sore thumb -

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DgWulNmew0

I'm looking forward to seeing more photos of the EDL defending Christian culture by relieving themselves on Westminster ABBEY...

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6VWZcTirAk

The guardian's got 8 minutes of film of the demo/ counter demo (note how 'Gert' barely gets a look in - so we/ UAF become a demo against him, and EDL are the demo against us - not a good look).
There's a woman in UAF: "I can't believe the police are just letting them march.."
Believe it. Tell your mates too. This is what happens. Expect it next time. Maybe then you won't be in the bloc with the front group who marches everyone a mile away from the other side.

Same goes for the anarcho side. Comments (showing just a bit less surprise): "Well, turns out it was the police holding them at bay, not the protest". No shit... when did we ever organise an effective response on the street? Work it out: UAF are state puppies. Police will have to grudgingly, or not so grudgingly, facilitate the EDL's demo. Antifa are all under heavy manners. So whose gonna organise our tactics for us? Oh shit, it's gonna have to be DIY...

I got a text through on thursday, something along the lines of: 'emergency demo, fash marching, three days notice'. Fucking bullshit. We've known about this march for a month. The only new thing on Wednesday was the House of lords let it. What a sideswipe! Who'd have seen that coming? It's just everyone (yes, me and everyone I know too) is too fuckin' lazy to organise a simple street-tactical response. The texts need to be flying about three days before the tactics meeting, not three days before the demo!


By the way, does anyone know why UAF didn't march folks away from the EDL this time? Something to do with permits, perhaps?

the BNP used to use street demos consistently to ramp up racism/as recruiting tools. They do not march anymore yet got nearly 1 million votes at the last election. Thye do not need to march anymore. They stopped marching for two mainconnected reasons. AFA consistently attacked them. This affected their activists but also made them like the NF give across a contradictory message to the one the hoped to give. As fascists ( or neo-fascist) they want to give a message of strength and order and violent disturbances did them not good ( same for NF in 7ts)

So the BNP changed tactics. And took up 'euro-fascism' a la the FN/Le Pen. This door to door community strategy has reaped massive gaians as we see in the elections.

And where then anti-fascists? AFA, who were themselves suffering an increasing state clamp down, quickly recognised the change in the BNP and converted themselves into IWCA to 'fill the vaccum' ( their idea that fascism only exists in a vacuum of a political alternative and the job of anti fascists is to fill that vacuum)

Militant anti-fascists who disagreed with this apparoach, started AntiFa. This, while having arguable effectiveness, has hit the rocks of state repression. It is not the 7ts where there is no CCTV/FIT team monitoring our every moves, and where squadists could operate openly. Their future operation is in doubt.

UAF continue with these nonsense protests like yesterday. In Barking and Dagenham they are campaigning for the right wing NULabourite Margaret Hodge, seemingly ignorent to the fact that people are voting BNP because of the likes of her!!!

Searchlight's millions of leaflets, newspapers and doostepings have equally failed to stop the growth of the BNP.

What is extraordinary is that only AFA/IWCA have bothered to actualy study what it is that the BNP does. The BNP have got to where they are by a combination of astute publicity ('gagged', use of court cases etc) but above all by community activism, talking to people in pubs and clubs, doorstepping. It is clear that the IWCA were correct. Fascism and or loyalism will not be defeated by self defeating and demos like yesterday nut by taking the BNP and EDL on on their own turf.

Sun Tzu 6thcBC

"So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself."

Confronting the BNP's mouthy wing may or may not be the right course to take. That's a long debate, and in the end individuals may just look at community organising and decide that, even if it's the right thing to do, it's just too much work...

IF...we are going to have a response on the street, though, it's not too tricky to make that response an effective one. It is also problem-solving together on the street where we build networks with enough trust and commitment to do 'grown-up' jobs like 'filling the vacuum'.

I say again.. next time, the 'emergency' texts need to go round three days before the tactics meeting, not three days before the meetup..

Ok, so CCTV/FIT teams stop street action, agreed, but there's no CCTV/FIT where EDL members live, work, the streets they walk when they're not protesting. Is there any sense in starting to gather info on these poeple, where they live etc, ringleaders and followers alike and tracking them down, puuting the screws on away from the cameras?

@ don't mind me

" .. and in the end individuals may just look at community organising and decide that, even if it's the right thing to do, it's just too much work..."

sorry but FFS! :D well you may as well give up then because THAT is where the BNP are winning .. you think you can change the world by yourselfs and ignore the mass of people. fascism has always understood you need the mass. it's about time anti fascists learnt that

@ IHTF

" Ok, so CCTV/FIT teams stop street action, agreed, but there's no CCTV/FIT where EDL members live, work, the streets they walk when they're not protesting. Is there any sense in starting to gather info on these poeple, where they live etc, ringleaders and followers alike and tracking them down, putting the screws on away from the cameras?"

sorry but this is nonsense. can you really not win an argument? and where these people live? is your beliefs so weak that no one listens to you? is the only way to beat the fascists to become like the fascists? come on! LOOK at what the BNP have done. they have gone from these old tactics, marchs, attacking asians, street violence etc etc to community organising and their vote has gone from 102,000 in 1999 to 940,000 in 2009. do the math as the americans would say. people like you are stuck in the demo/intimidation/protest tactics that have been shown to fail yet you persist in thinking they will one day work. why??

have you read the Red Action Anti Fascist Action documents when they voted to shut down AFA? why would you think that the biggest and most important physical force anti-fascist movement would shut themselves down? cos they got bored?

The EDL are a reaction to racism, the way our soldiers are treated [by the government and the public as a result of being sent into an illegal war], extreme right wing Islam [ Islam 4 UK and Hizb-ut-Tahrir], the lack of social housing, the resurgence of militant Irish republicanism and feelings of apathy, frustration, and anger in the UK. This does have a danger of turning simply into hate if not managed or if infiltrated.

Many of the EDL are frustrated ex soldiers who feel that they do not have anywhere to fit in here in Briatain when they leave the armed forces. Worse still they are being pariahed by the very people they are paid and expected to defend. Yes, they were sent into an illegal war. Blame the government for that not the armed forces.

You can't call a group that includes Asian, Blacks and Jews nazi or racist becuase they are not. They are angry, let down patriotic ex soldiers, their girlfriends, relatives and mates.

I guess that the EDL have found both the UAF and the BNP lacking in providing a support network to social problems and formed a group of their own.

They do not further their cause however by behaving like football hooligans and chanting "You've got chlamydia" at the opposition or by not bringing any leaflets for the curious.

And your great masterplan for dealing with violent racist nationalist idiots is? Apart from kissing their arse on Indymedia that is?

Look, the bullshit these wankers are putting out is similar to the the proaganda put out by the Nazis in the run up to the Holocaust. DO you not think that that is worth stopping?

You complain at anti-fascists who get off their arse to oppose the EDL, yet have no answers to dealing with the EDL yourself.

Why do you get so uptight when someone suggests tracking these people down and pursauding them not to infest towns violently attacking minority groups anyway?

mate are you partly or totally blind .. i have posted an alternative on here ad nauseum

just re read what i wrote above

" What is extraordinary is that only AFA/IWCA have bothered to actualy study what it is that the BNP does. The BNP have got to where they are by a combination of astute publicity ('gagged', use of court cases etc) but above all by community activism, talking to people in pubs and clubs, doorstepping. It is clear that the IWCA were correct. Fascism and or loyalism will not be defeated by self defeating and demos like yesterday nut by taking the BNP and EDL on on their own turf."

i doubt we can compete with fascism in middle class areas but we can and are notr presently competing with them in working class areas .. it si really simple but will take hard and long term work. it means working with and living with and campaigning with working class people and re creating some sort of communities for without string communities you have capitulation, cynicism, drugs and fascism

sadly outr job is harder than that of the fascists. they have elements of the state supporting them. we do not . they can use nationslism and racist scapegoating which are heady emotional wighthy devices. we can not . we need to use hope and creativity and genuine community things the right can not use ..

"i doubt we can compete with fascism in middle class areas but we can and are notr presently competing with them in working class areas .. it si really simple but will take hard and long term work. it means working with and living with and campaigning with working class people and re creating some sort of communities for without string communities you have capitulation, cynicism, drugs and fascism"

I agree wholeheartedly and I know the left have neglected this part of combatting fascism, however fascists attack minorities, anti-fascists et al and we have to be prepared to meet that. Ignoring that gives these idiots free reign to control the streets. Yes the BNP moved to electoral stategies when they were chased off the streetsm, and yes we have to defeat them there too by working in our communities to combat the bullshit they put out, and provide answers of our own to the problems they use to win votes.

But combatting them on the streets is just as important. Many city centres were no go areas for mibnority groups and the left when ther NF and BNP conttrolled the streets, kicking them off ended that. It also defends the safety of the fash's would be victims.

The EDL are part of that physical force fascism tradition now, filling the void left by the BNP, they are not an electoral party and have no intention of being so, in fact if they were to stand theyt would dilute BNP votes and get into the shit for their blatant Islamophobic stance.