The Tortoise Protection Group are not an Animal Rights group...it is a con

The Tortoise Protection Group have conned a number of Animal Rights Activists into helping, raising and donating money. Their website promotes the breeding of captive tortoises as pets. There are also a number of dodgy articles about very expensive stolen tortoises. It is alarming genuine AR activists that other "AR" activists are supporting this group, believed to be criminals promoting a con.

The Tortoise Protection Group are running a racket. Don't support them. Captive tortoises does not equal kind tratment and the childishly name "The Theft Register" indicates that this is a criminal enterprise rather than agenuine animal protection agency.
The Tortoise Protection Group are believed to have made insurance claims with regards to expensive stole tortoises to the police.

www.tortoise-protection-group.org.uk/

Stop the "Animal Rights" Tortoise Protection Group Con

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www.tortoise-protection-group.org.uk/

04.02.2010 14:26

www.tortoise-protection-group.org.uk/

anon

More info please..

04.02.2010 14:30

HI there,

I visited their website to find out more about this group and found this:-

"..we will actively campaign for an import ban engaging public support through ongoing petitions. Members will be kept fully informed of activities through newsletters published on the Tortoise Protection Group Web site. We will meet with government bodies, tortoise societies, animal welfare charities and other organisations to encourage their support for the ban.

"To further our aims we will encourage the public to purchase tortoises through recommended UK tortoise breeders and tortoise re-homing groups. This will be achieved by initially providing a list of recommended UK breeders, and later by providing a re-homing service and linking to other existing re-homing groups."

Okay, so it seems to me that this group wants to stop importing tortoises because transporting them is cruel, and they are worried that people who want to own tortoises as pets might obtain them from an importer. So it seems they think the lesser of two evils is to have a list of recommended breeders and tortoise re-homing groups as people will find them through black markets otherwise.

Can you be more specific about whether you are against tortoises as pets full stop, or breeding of tortoises for profit? If you are against the former are you also against other types of pets? If you are against the latter do you think it is impossible to breed them in a kind manner or do you think regulation of breeding is not going to work?

Also you are insinuating that this group are involved in insurance fraud, please can you provide more evidence please.

Anon

there is a difference

04.02.2010 14:53

Protection of animals is not all directly related to the AR agenda if your goal is to stop the extinction of rare / endangered species in the wild. The two are different issues although there may be some crossover.

This case seems to be one that is about stopping the international trade in tortoises, yes it is cruel for them to be transported large distances in small containers and many do die like this. But the main thrust seems to me to be stopping them being taken from the wild in the first place. This is a very worthwhile objective and the only way that some species will remain viable in the wild is to stop the poaching of them from the wild.

Regarding the idea that people that want tortoises should buy them from reputable dealers / breeders who can prove that the tortoises they sell are not from the wild but bred domestically is one answer to the problem - possibly. I have my doubts about captive breeding of species as a tool for stopping poaching although that said it works differently for different species and so may work for tortoises.

So if you are interested in protecting tortoises from extinction in the wild then this may be the way to go. Or it may not.

If you are against breeding tortoises and selling them for pets on grounds of cruelty then that is a different issue.

lonesome george

The tortoise protection group are involved with selling tortoises

04.02.2010 15:14

The Tortoise Protection Group are involved with the tortoise trade. They started campaigning a couple of years ago and asked AR groups for donations. Most AR people would not support the breeding of captive tortoises. There is suspicion around the "theft" of very expensive tortoises and they should be investigated.

Be nice to animals

Re: The tortoise protection group are involved with selling tortoises

04.02.2010 16:06

"The Tortoise Protection Group are involved with the tortoise trade."

I am still not clear on this, are you saying that they are actually involved in importing tortoises, or do they have a financial vested interest in breeding them for pets, or are they just independently setting up some kind of evaluation system where 'recommended' suppliers can be vetted? The three possibilities have widely differing ethical consequences so some clarification would be useful.

The first and second possibilities would render this organisation completely fraudulent whilst the third possibility would mean they just have a different idea of how to protect tortoises than most AR activists.

I can see that AR people would not support breeding for profit as it is effectively exploiting animals for profit, and would be hard to regulate and prevent abuses. However it seems that in the cruelty stakes this is not as significant as importing tortoises and there could be an argument that tortoises bred with some vague (independent) oversight could be better than people buying them from importers, which they might end up doing regardless if there are no other possibilities.

"There is suspicion around the "theft" of very expensive tortoises and they should be investigated."

Can you provide more info on what has come to light here?

Anon

clarification

04.02.2010 16:18

They are involved in the domestic trade in that they recommend reputable dealers. They are not, from what i can tell, involved in any international trade in wild caught tortoises. These are two very different things.

They may have asked for donations from AR organisations and why not. But they are not an AR organisation themselves but interested in conservation of the species.

Tortoises are worth a lot of money, part of the reason why they are poached from the wild, and it is not surprising that pet tortoises would be insured. Can anybody expand on the issue about insurance fraud? Or is this just an attack from AR people on an organisation that they dont like due to the fact that they are happy with the trade in domestically bred tortoises?

lonesome george

something's not right about them, could be a money spinner

04.02.2010 17:02

They are certainly a bit weird. The "theft register"?

suspicious

tortoises don't belong in this country!

04.02.2010 17:13

The importation or breeding of tortoises in this country should be banned - they are not indigenous to this part of the world - it is too cold. At the present time I believe that the importation of only certain varieties is banned. The captive breeding and selling of those varieties that are banned from importation is a lucrative trade and, in my humble opinion is very cruel. It is not a natural environment for tortoises, or any other reptile for that matter, to be kept in a heated tank - hardly a natural existence! Those who have survived from the days when their importation was legal are not easy to care for and are, in essence, in exile.
With our variable climate, they require a great deal of specialist care and are a great responsibility to those whose care then are in! They are not and should not be regarded as pets.

mrs. shellyback

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An AR group being run as a money spinner!...

04.02.2010 18:32

Deja Vu

sounds like SHAC

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re : "sounds like shac" - more like shacwatch

04.02.2010 20:56

shacwatch are deviant criminal scum

anon

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The moneyspinners are more likely to be shacwatch goons working for HLS

05.02.2010 02:43

These bullies and cretins are paid by someone to bully activists. Where do they get all our personal details from?

As for shac a lot of genuine and well meaning nice people have raised money for shac.

Erm...

Anything to do with the Animal Protection Party?

05.02.2010 15:36

Similar name and they arrived at around the same time.

anony mouse

No, nothing to do with the Animal Protection Party

05.02.2010 18:45

The Animal Protection Party have an animal rights background, they certainly wouldn't be promoting the breeding of animals for sale.

Maybe I can explain the difference between animal welfare and animal rights for people who aren't aware of it:

Animal welfare really just means bigger cages and longer chains; we can still exploit and kill animals as long as there is no excessive and gratuitous cruelty involved.

Animal rights means giving animals the right to live their lives free of all human persecution.

Also, conservationism just means keeping the species from dying out, it says nothing about cruelty to individual members of the species.

I've never heard of the Tortoise Protection Group, but it seems they are firmly in the welfare/conservation camp, and probably are strongly linked to breeders in the UK, who will obviously benefit if imports are banned.

Or maybe they see the writing on the wall for the reptile trade in this country, and are hoping to cut their losses by going for a compromise ban on importing whilst still being allowed to breed animals that should never be in captivity or in this climate in the first place.

There are groups who campaign against the trade in wild-caught animals for the pet trade without compromising their ideals by supporting the pet trade in this country. For example the Animal Protection Agency:

http://www.apa.org.uk/ and Animal Aid

http://www.animalaid.org.uk/

vegan

To Vegan

05.02.2010 20:58

Thanks for the sensible information and advice regarding the APA and Animal Aid. The RSPCA might be interested as might the Wildlife Crimes Unit.

anon

The Tortoise Protection Group are as dodgy as it gets.

05.02.2010 21:13

They are probably connected to breeders.

Dumbo

Pathetic

07.02.2010 13:06

that indymedia is being used to libel an innocuous and well meaning group of tortoise enthusiasts. With all the pressure being put on AR campaigners by the state, its so much less risky to find other animal lovers to fight with. And this with so many blatant instances of animal abuse that are passing unaddressed. Sad, sad, sad.

Shelly

Animals our not ours to own, breed in captivity out of natural climate etc.

07.02.2010 20:37

Tortoise enthusiasts indeed....that isn't a good reason to ignore cruelty. Breeding these animals in captivity isn't humane and they are not AR people "fighting among themselves"!

They are more than likely breeders themselves or connected to them. They collect money in the street "for the tortoises" and there are endless reports of EXPENSIVE stolen tortoises on there website that shows just how lucrative the tortoise trade is.

This is cruel and the tortoises are the ones who are kept in an environment that isn't natural to them. They are probably cold most of the time etc. [This will probably lead to some idiot sticking them in front of a radiator..don't].

The tortoises should not be bred for money and the Tortoise Protection Group are not AR.

This is about MONEY.

anon

what it is and what it isnt

08.02.2010 10:05

Ok you made your point it isnt AR, but it is conservation which is as important as AR in my opinion. It is possible to do both but in this case they dont fit in with your narrow idea of what human animal interaction should be.

personally if they are doing something to help stop the trade in wild caught tortoises and help to ensure that species that are under threat in the wild remain as viable population sin the wild then they are doing good work.

Whether you think they are AR or not is neither here nor there really. There are surely better targets for your AR anger than this?

And the references to the insurance side fo things, what are you getting at? Tortoises are valuable and there is a trade in them both legal and illegal. people steal tortoises for the illegal trade hence people insure them against theft. If you have any evidence of wrongdoing on this then you should share it with us all.

Until then perhaps it might be worth you reflecting on the fact that the approach of people differs, what is important to one is not important to all. This group seem to be doing good work in the area of conservation, and good luck to them.

lonesome george

@Pathetic

09.02.2010 01:35

"that indymedia is being used to libel an innocuous and well meaning group of tortoise enthusiasts"

I think maybe you don't understand where animal rights is coming from. They well be "well-meaning" and "animal lovers" but breeding animals for the pet trade is diametrically in opposition to animal rights.

It's like saying animal rights people should support a group of factory farmers who want to give chickens 10% bigger cages. Animal farmers and pet trade breeders are the enemy.

I've no idea about the allegations of financial impropriety, but it doesn't really matter, it's a smokescreen from the real point. Maybe the original poster can provide more details.

"Conservation" is also often opposed to animal rights - e.g. the sickening spectacle of the RSPB backing the murder of ruddy ducks just because they are the "wrong colour" and will "interbreed with native ducks". Parallels with eugenics and apartheid or what? Animal rights is about the individual animal, what happens to the species as a whole is irrelevant.

Are there better targets for animal rights people's wrath? Possibly - I can't say it is something I would focus on personally - but there is no central animal rights committee dictating what people do. If someone feels strongly about this then they go for it, and good luck to them.

vegan

Absolute Rubbish

20.03.2016 17:36

Someone has obviously rattled the cage of this "well-known?" group.
Indymedia UK - who are you?
No-one has ever heard of you I'm sure.
You more than likely have a financial interest in importing and trading reptiles. Or someone at the TPG has upset a nasty individual with nothing better to do?
The Tortoise Protection Group opposes this cruel trade. In opposition to this, The TPG promote rehoming and link people to genuine UK Breeders who will offer the best advice, as opposed to the poor money orientated advice offered by pet shops and other reptile dealers.
The TPG have worked with many Animal Welfare Groups and helped produce a video "A Far Cry From Nature" regarding the appalling Terraristica Reptile Fair in Hamm - see their Homepage
The TPG have advised 1000's of people how best to keep tortoises and 1000's of tortoises have benefited from the advice given by the TPG. They have rehomed 100s of tortoises and do not make any charges for doing so. No-one at the TPG is paid, everyone is a volunteer............so how exactly is the TPG ripping anyone off when no-one at all benefits financially
What exactly do Indymedia UK do, what have you achieved?
Absolute idiots!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLAJR_dlL28&hl=en-GB&gl=GB

https://www.youtube.com/watch?hl=en-GB&v=CNuO5KfBGmk&feature=related&gl=GB

Daren
mail e-mail: darren@tortoise-protection-group.org.uk

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