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The EDL, the BNP and Stoke by ‘Malatesta’

Malatesta | 20.12.2009 10:47 | Anti-racism | Birmingham | World

The EDL, the BNP and the possible co-operation of local football firm ‘the Naughty Forty’ has serious public order implications at the January demonstration in Stoke.

The EDL, the BNP and Stoke by ‘Malatesta’

The sudden stepping down of Stoke BNP group leader councillor Alby Walker interestingly coincides with growing anxieties over the January protest by the EDL in the same city, the potential support of local BNP members, the involvement of the local football firm and an enormous bill for heavy policing. Following the EDL’s last performance, the cost to Nottingham is now put at £200,000. This does not bode well for the forthcoming EDL shindig. The way to avoid a repeat of this large sum being passed onto the people of Stoke is to ban the demonstration.

Stoke BNP
Alby Walker has stepped down as group leader after 3 years amidst “rumours of growing friction within the group over its future leadership and political direction.” He is only 1 of 9 other councillors but this still bodes ill for Stoke BNP as Walker is seen as someone who can actually perform rudimentary council work. It is a generally acknowledged fact that BNP councillors do not have a great record: when they realise that they are not leading the Aryan revolution but have to sit in on dull meetings about street lights and refuse collection many first lose interest and then their positions through laziness, boredom or failure to get re-elected. The list of crap councillors is as entertaining as it is inept.
 http://www.zen26144.zen.co.uk/articles/crapcouncillors.htm

However, Stoke BNP are seen by some to have created a stronghold and one that is unwilling to be influenced by party HQ down south or by other northern Nazi factions. One poster on the Northwest Nationalist forum claims: “Stoke BNP have been rather strange. They seem to have kept themselves away from both Griffin and us.” Another replied: “Stoke BNP have got it right, they don’t like interference from head or regional office and have some great people … Stoke is BNP heaven for canvassing.” Stoke has a large white working class community and their various resentments are something that the BNP have capitalised on.

The Stoke Firm
Stoke City’s football firm The Naughty 40 or N40 have established a reputation for being game. The Stoke hooligans were also involved with the Oldham riots in 2001 when the N40 joined up with Oldham’s Fine Young Casuals and caused mayhem. However, Mark Chester, N40 member and author, thinks that this connection was overplayed and wrote “with the Stoke firm racism was never an issue, so never on our agenda – and I must reiterate that.” They had originally gone for a ruck with the Oldham lads but then became embroiled in the rioting. Whether the N40 still comply with Mark Chester’s sentiments will be seen in January.

It is important to understand the football firm mentality here. Despite the fact that many teams are sworn enemies and harbour long held grudges, during England games in particular, these rivalries are often put aside for the ‘greater good’ of ‘supporting’ England by smashing up bars and urinating in the streets. In 2001, the Stoke and Oldham firms put their differences aside and attacked the Asian community, sparking reprisals. Although the EDL/Casuals United comprise many different firms it is unlikely that the N40 will attack them for ‘taking liberties’ on their turf. Firms have long kept in regular contact through mobile phones and the internet to organise rows but despite this technology the increased surveillance and heavy policing means it is very difficult for them to meet up. What the EDL does is give the chance for firms to get together, drink heavily and have a go at the police and any Muslim or anti-fascist protestors whilst carrying out a ‘legitimate political protest.’ Something which they are unable to do on match day. It is a justifiable fear that the N40 may well link up with local BNP supporters and the EDL with the inevitable outcome of multiple arrests, scuffling, the EDL being kettled into a Wetherspoon’s or similar and the people of Stoke ending up paying for it all.

The EDL, Nazis & The BNP
The EDL continued claims to be non-violent, non-racist, non-BNP and non-Nazi have been shown time and again to be a complete and utter falsehood. A quick survey of arrests at EDL demos seems to counter any idea that they are for peaceful purposes. They claim to our English heritage but how urinating on Nottingham Castle does this remains unclear. 16 EDL were arrested in Nottingham, 7 on Public Order Offences. The documentary footage clearly shows the EDL having a go at the cops when they were kettled in at the Castle. At the Manchester do police arrested 44:
“Twenty-nine were arrested on suspicion of public order offences, four were arrested for affray, three for possession of an offensive weapon – one of whom was also arrested for possession of drugs. Three men were arrested on suspicion of racially aggravated public order offences. Five were arrested for on suspicion of breach of the peace.
Hardly non-violent: a further 90 arrested in Birmingham in September and 35 at the one in July. There have been skirmishes with opposing demonstrators but the majority of friction is between the EDL and the cops. The EDL does not seem to be promoting peaceful demonstrations in any way and whatever the leadership says about liaising with the cops, video evidence shows that they have little control over who comes on the demos and how they behave. The EDL claim to be not-anti-Islam but anti-Extremism but how these demonstrations actually stop this is extremely vague. Picketing a mosque is one thing but holing up in city centre pubs with the inevitable police containment seems pointless and further illustrates the fact that they just want to drink, fight and cause trouble.

There are documented examples of the EDL singing racist songs like and images of them Sieg-Heiling. Despite attempting to stamp out the Sieg Heil brigade the leadership of the EDL have systematically failed to do so. Any resolution of demonstrators to not salute is swiftly dissolves in gallons of lager. As for the claims to be multi-ethnic, the vast majority of people on their demos appear to be white, shaven headed, angry looking geezers.

Despite the BNP’s Nick Griffin calling the EDL a “proscribed organisation” members are clearly involved and have been connected to the EDL, not least the likes of Chris Renton who set up the website and Liverpool BNP member Liam Pinkham, who has been done for racially aggravated intentional harassment. The EDL claim to hate Nazis and there was an altercation earlier this year between Combat 18 members and the EDL which ended with a C18 member being battered with a fire extinguisher. Others have put this down to inter-firm rivalries. Regardless, what the leadership say on their websites and what happens on the streets are usually completely different things. On the website they claim that they will stop the Sieg-Heiling. They have not.
 http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2009/12/443283.html?c=on#comments

The EDL claim that the images are biased and they are really holding their arms aloft in traditional football style. The evidence does not support this. They claim that they do not want Nazis on their demonstrations but then the likes of Michael Heaton, associated with the Aryan Strike Force, the tiny BFF and the NF is photographed in attendance. Heaton has undeniable Nazi links and has also just been arrested for soliciting murder. The EDL leaders are keen to publicly discourage any anti-social behaviour but perhaps not meeting in the pub might help with this. On the EDL’s sister website, Casuals United they appeal for calm:
“things like charging at police and singing "Harry Roberts" songs aren't gonna get Joe public to join demos … I know a lot of you are ex-lads, but this ain't a football match, its a serious protest group.”
These appeals seem to fall on the waxen ears of protestors.

The Nazis & EDL
On Northwest Nationalists, the far right anti-Griffinite site, there is a difference of opinion over the outcomes of Stoke with one poster having seen “this one half caste guy about 45 with the stoke mob with a 70s style afro who was stood on a table taunting the old bill shouting B,B,BNP.” To their general amusement. Others are not impressed and between the UAF and the Zionist stooges” they “couldn't care less which of these gangs ends up with more casualties.” This accusation of being covertly run by an ‘evil Jewish cabal’ is a common worry on these websites: “there is clearly a Zionist influence behind the scenes of the EDL.” The BFF website also agrees: “because there [sic] are part of ZOGs footsoliders [sic].” However, illiteracy apart, for some at NWN, “at least the edl get of [sic] there arses and get out on the street.” The determinedly non-Nazi, non-racist, EDL responded to comments by inviting the NWNers to the demo:
“maybe tag along to one theres two in the midlands stoke and dudley in new year. you colud [sic] then find out for yourself what there all about.”
Inviting known Nazis to your demo is probably not the best way to ‘stamp out’ the Sieg-Heiling.

Conclusion
That the situation in Stoke is potentially volatile is beyond doubt: the EDL will hope to pull numbers, local BNP supporters (not necessarily members) will no doubt get involved and the Naughty 40 and other firms may drop by with tea and cakes. There will be a large anti-fascist counter demonstration and a massive police presence. When all the smoke clears, as with Nottingham, it will be the good people of Stoke who end up paying for it all. The only way to avoid this, the inevitable violence and arrests, the general disruption to the city is to ban it.

Malatesta

Malatesta

Comments

Hide the following 25 comments

Harry Roberts is our friend

20.12.2009 11:54

Anti Racism
The EDL are a racist, physical force political movement. They should be opposed by everyone who is against racism. Racism divides the working class so it has oftem been promoted by the employing class.

Zionism
The EDL and the BNP both support Israel, if a network as lose as the EDL can be said to have such specific politics. This means that they might be described as Zionists. It does not imply that they or their leaders are Jewish.
Hitler was a Zionist (Lenni Brenner, Zionism in the Age of the Dictators, Hitler Looks at Zionism):
 http://www.marxists.de/middleast/brenner/ch07.htm
Racist Zionists like Nick Griffin or Lord Sacks should be confronted.

Anarchism
It's not consistent to call for something to be banned and to call yourself Malatesta. Malatesta opposed all bans.

Anti Police
It's interesting to hear that EDL members said "Charging at police and singing "Harry Roberts" songs aren't gonna get Joe public to join demos". It adds to arguments that there are some elements of the EDL who should abandon racism and join the class war.

Working Class Defence
People have a right to defend themselves against military occupation but groups supporting the London Bus Bombings should be confronted.

Collaboration
There is never an excuse for collaborating with the police or with the fash.

Anti-Racist


The Links Between the EDL and BNP

20.12.2009 14:03

The implication of some kind of collusive link between the BNP and the EDL suggests that the BNP have managed to overcome historic, long term, rivalries between different Firms. This might well be true in the short term. In the long term it is delusional. It only really takes one Team to be relegated. Or some such outrage.

The relationship seems more like the Fiore experience of the "Strategy of Tension". The EDL is, for the most part, a pack of useful idiots. The muppets of the terraces. Given the atrocious bookeeping of the BNP, it seems that a return to the traditional is in the offing. Happy Uncle Nick has his pension assured and can dump the minions. The EDL offers him an exit strategy from all the Usefuls.

Nick Griffins Accountant


disappointing article

20.12.2009 18:12

hi Malatesta .. i thought your're last foray was pretty good but i think you have got lots wrong here some of which anti-fascist corrects pulls you up for. And your conclusion are a shame as you clearly have an in depth knowledge of many of the players

1) we should never call for bans .. this is fundamental. practically it is insane as the laws they use and the precedents it creates will impact upon us more than the far right and theoretically it is mad as we are supposed to be AGAINST fascism and any ban is a form of fascism.

2) your analysis that to an extent the EDL is an outlet for lads with too much energy who can no longer have a cheap and cheerful row on a saturday due to policing, is fair. But then you slide into pretty patronising middle class crap Who gives a fuck if the urinated on Nottingham Castle or that they get drunk in Weatherspoons? And golly gosh some of them are a little bit tasty! Your middle class distaste for these " white, shaven headed, angry looking geezer" does not help us in the slightest and is in fact part of the problem.

3) and you continue this utterly flawed argument that because there are known fascists on their demos then they are fascists, that because there are known racists on their demos then they are racist. This is the bullshit the state and the media pull on us all the time. It is theoretically wrong to argue in this way and practically it has led to fundamentaly wrong conclusions, e.g. arguing for state bans. Concentrate on what the EDL say and do and we both know who we mean. Tommy Robinson from Luton, Leisha form essex, Joel Titus from London, Kelway from Pompey ( and brum), Jeff Marsh from Cardiff etc. Yes they are playing the role of fascists but no they are not on paper and in action racists or fascist

4) and you continue with the BNP links. Have you ever had a look at the left? or the @ scene? or AR??? Do you know there have been fascists in AR? etc etc You claim that the EDL have not stopped Seig Heiling yet the only supposed Seig Heiling is utter debateable.

5) while your knowledge seems in depth it is not in depth enough. the EDL are based largely on ex squaddies and also football firms. There is a strong antipathy to politics of both sides in both these groups. Sadly as the left and @s have rejected the non Trade Union working class ( as er racists!) we have no influence and increasingly the far right are being listened to in these areas


so to conclude to argue for a state ban is 100% wrong. what we need to be doing is become active in the communities these people live and work, making our politics more relavent than that of scapegoating and loyalism .. yes we are playing catch up but if we don't start now we may never catch up

Durruti02


get ready Durrutti

20.12.2009 20:07

any minute now and the spotty Troll watcher will be back to castigate wrongly anyone who he thinks is a fascist/edl member of which I'm neither nor is the previous poster....Is any one with a different Anti fascist view point allowed a say on indymedia or will we be censored as before ? regards

Casual Observer


Repy to Durti

20.12.2009 22:08

Durti sed this
"But then you slide into pretty patronising middle class crap Who gives a fuck if the urinated on Nottingham Castle or that they get drunk in Weatherspoons? And golly gosh some of them are a little bit tasty! Your middle class distaste for these " white, shaven headed, angry looking geezer" does not help us in the slightest and is in fact part of the problem.

BUT there are contradictions between somebody proclaiming support for English Heritage, and then urinating on an historical English Castle. A group of blokes up for a row perhaps says more about the vast majority who do NOT involve themselves in these sorts of EDL activities. Lets be clear about this, the EDL are only an irrelevant touring sideshow, representative of nothing but themselves.

Then Durti sed this
"and you continue this utterly flawed argument that because there are known fascists on their demos then they are fascists, that because there are known racists on their demos then they are racist. This is the bullshit the state and the media pull on us all the time. It is theoretically wrong to argue in this way and practically it has led to fundamentaly wrong conclusions, e.g. arguing for state bans. Concentrate on what the EDL say and do and we both know who we mean. Tommy Robinson from Luton, Leisha form essex, Joel Titus from London, Kelway from Pompey ( and brum), Jeff Marsh from Cardiff etc. Yes they are playing the role of fascists but no they are not on paper and in action racists or fascist".

Has anybody else spotted the huge contradiction here in what Durti wrote? 'They are playing the role of fascists', and then DUrti contradicts himself by saying they are 'not on paper and in action racists and fascist'. Just because somebody doesn't say I AM RACIST AND FASCIST does not mean that they are not. Indeed, if they are 'playing the role of fascists' then they to all intents and purposes are likely to be of far more use for fascists than anybody else.

Class War


@ class war

20.12.2009 22:59

class war ( really btw??)
"Has anybody else spotted the huge contradiction here in what Durti wrote? 'They are playing the role of fascists', and then DUrti contradicts himself by saying they are 'not on paper and in action racists and fascist'. Just because somebody doesn't say I AM RACIST AND FASCIST does not mean that they are not. Indeed, if they are 'playing the role of fascists' then they to all intents and purposes are likely to be of far more use for fascists than anybody else. "

D02 says

no there is no contradiction here at all and this is absolutely the crux of the matter and what points strongly to them being manipulated. In the same way that trade unions/ists have been manipulated there is no contradiction between EDL people being against the BNP but their activity helping the BNP. ( and i have argued this pretty much since the off on urban if you want to check)

think about this again ;) manipulating people is the oldest trick in the book

But in fact it is their relationship with the state that is FAR FAR FAR more important than that with the BNP. We currently have soldiers dieing at a terrible rate in Afghan. There should be an resistance to this. We currently are facing massive attacks in spending and already have massive unemployment. there should be resistance to this.

But out pops the EDL. I honestly believe most of them are people who are angry generally and specifically really angry against Islamists and Jihadis ( and why not?) and are not out and out racists or fascists

BUT BUT BUT what they are doing and what they are confronting is a fucking distraction .. and who does it suit?? The state down to the fucking ground




D02


troll alert

20.12.2009 23:10

i think the only solution is one of those snazzy "troll warning" triangles. In my opinion, people are not allowed to have any of their own opinions that fall outside of the remit of the indymedia party line. If they do, I exercise the right to condenscendingly label you as a troll to deflect attention from all your silly points. Since I am smarter and more educated than you, I will tout these statements as fact and yours are stupid ramblings of a mad person.

Wake up! You are not allowed to disagree with people

Cobblers


Excellent article

20.12.2009 23:37

I agree these marches should be banned. They are nothing but organised hooliganism. I agree that going on about them zieg heiling or being nazis detracts from the real problems of what they do and what their politics is. I haven't seen any video footage of them zieg heiling, only stills. Football yobs do wave their arms around as do most apes. If you snap them enough you'll get the shot.

Ruby


wanna

21.12.2009 10:54

What a load of cobblers gets spouted on all this. Trust the left-ist scene to overcomplicate things.

Look, middle class kids get their adrenaline kicks from snow-boarding in the Alps, bungee jumping in the himalayas etc. Working class kids get their kicks from having a ruck. And god knows, we all need a bit of a pick-you-up sometimes, don't we?

So these kids want to sink a few pints and kick some coppers. So? That's a bad thing how? The racism is just a convenient tag to pull it all together. It would be football, but that's been stamped on by over-inflated 'football-related' sentences and stupid levels of policing. So a political excuse does the job nicely.

You want to tackle racism? Have a go at the real fascist wankers at the Daily Mail and their mates. They are the ones that stir it all up, with daily stories of sponging refugees and Polish millionaire brickies.

Or maybe get together an alternative scene for kicking it off, that isn't racist. Harry Roberts is our friend, he kills coppers...

scrap


Lincoln Loyal Supports Combat18, the NF AND THE BNP!

21.12.2009 12:24


The Nazi salutes have been confirmed and corroborated by leading journalists, many of whom were given death threats for exposing the EDL for whom they are, a bunch of hypocritical hardcore football hooligans and neo-Nazis, who are trying to stir up race riots, which is why they are meeting in Stoke.

It is not rocket science why they chose Stoke to meet!

Lincoln Loyal is the EDL's Lincolnshire Organiser, leading the LTE firm who rely on at least a dozen hardcore football hooligan thugs to every march.

Hey, KKKelway and the usual suspects, here is EDL Organiser Lincoln Loyal's flag.....

Pressman


A HITLER SALUTE

21.12.2009 13:35


This was no accident, KKKelway and braindead EDL trolls: -

EDL EXPOSED


Another "Accidental" Hitler Salute

21.12.2009 13:55


The EDL were of course "throwing hands in the air", Kelfuck and his braindead army of trolls will continue to tell us!

HITLER SALUTES EXPOSED


Another Hitler salute!

21.12.2009 14:10


Still lovin' racist mass-murderer Adolf Hitler as usual practice for the EDL.

HITLER SALUTES EXPOSED


"HEIL HITLER!!!"

21.12.2009 14:26


The game's up.

The EDL just cannot stop paying straight-armed tributes to the EDL.

Sod off back to Stormfront, trolls!

YET MORE SALUTES


The EDL Burn Anti-nazi flag in Wales

21.12.2009 14:36


Wigan Mike and his EDL neo-nazi thugs show their commitment to anti-fascism, lol.

Irish Ulsterman


Why The Straight Arm Salute ???????????????????????

21.12.2009 14:52


This jolly Hitler salute was from the Birmingham EDL march!

KKKelway and EDL trolling chums will tell us he was swatting an invisible fly, or some crap like this.

Note only one hand, and no-one else is raising their hands around him.

The EDL are indeed a toxic mixture of football pissheads and hardcore white supremacist NF/BNP/C18 types.

Hope the EDL like us reminding the peeps of these damning photos.

TELLING IT LIKE IT IS...............

HITLER SALUTES EXPOSED


sort it

21.12.2009 18:17

Posting a few pictures of a few people doing nazi salutes is not going to convince people that the EDL as a whole is a nazi organisation, I'm still no sure about the EDL, but I don't believe that the group as a whole are nazis.

And i will keep thinking this until i see more evidence, like a video a mass salute from within their ranks.

here and now


MORE HITLER SALUTES EXPOSED!!!

21.12.2009 20:02

One Chelsea fans sieg heils + ALL Chelsea fans are fascist
One Chelsea fans sieg heils + ALL Chelsea fans are fascist

Can you spot the fascist sieg heiling in this picture?
Can you spot the fascist sieg heiling in this picture?

kinda get the feeling 'people' are trying too hard

MORE HITLER SALUTES EXPOSED!!!


yes trying too hard ..

21.12.2009 21:31

.. makes you think Troll Destroya or whoever this person of a thousend alias's is is on pretty thin ground .. s'he wells knows that the events in swansea ( two of the above pics ) were condemned by WDL as have anyone seig heiling .. this is exactly the same as the state does against our activities .. and you know what AR/SHAC has had a fair few fascists involved over the years but does anyone say they are then fascists?

whatever it is entirely superficial way to try to understand a movement .. and has led to completely wrong tactics

D02


Racists - I can't see any racists x3

21.12.2009 21:59

@here and now:
"Posting a few pictures of a few people doing nazi salutes is not going to convince people that the EDL as a whole is a nazi organisation, I'm still no sure about the EDL, but I don't believe that the group as a whole are nazis."

Nazi salutes at every demo - means that they are at the very least a group that is a) attractive to nazis and b) tolerant of nazis.

@MORE HITLER SALUTES EXPOSED!!!:
"kinda get the feeling 'people' are trying too hard"

To ignore of trivialise 'Hitler Salutes'? I'd agree with you

@D02?
"and you know what AR/SHAC has had a fair few fascists involved over the years but does anyone say they are then fascists?"

Show us the photos of Hitler salutes at AR demos then.

Now what was it that Nick Griffin had to say about the EDL? Oh yes ......

"“I’ve no doubt that this is something designed to spark physical clashes between Muslim communities en bloc and the people who are coming in to hold a demonstration. They are out of it. The people who are going to get it in the neck, who are going to get the blame when it all goes wrong, are ordinary white working class communities.

“The people behind this are pushing for a low level civil war.”

Almost like he thinks they are racist demos. What the *&$£ would he know about racist demos eh?

 http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/article/520/BNP-blame-Zionists-for-EDL

eyes shut tight


"The people behind this"

22.12.2009 13:54


The people who believe they are behind the EDL believe they will achieve low level conflict. They think they can keep it all at arms length.They are wrong. they have not realised it yet. They have spent too much time dwelling on Bologna Station.

Luther Blisset


tower bridge

23.12.2009 18:09

i once had a piss against tower bridge. when the plod came along and told me i´m nicked i merely continued and told them to hop it like..........whats so bad bout pissing against a wall if you´ve been a pig penned. nottingham castle..a symbol of a fuedal past....lets get real
was at a rts in nottingham way back. 78 arrested, and no we were not overly violent scum.
also a curiosity, back then when it was.that rts, there was a crew of notts riot police who quite frankly scared the shite out of me when having thrown me in their van announced that this is "your worst nightmare. we really are fascist!". hmmm. wonder if they still about.

who the fuq


Hypocrisy

24.12.2009 01:06


The problem with the EDL neo-Nazis pissing against the wall of Nottingham Castle is that the stupid cretinous football thugs of the EDL claim they are protecting Britain's sacred historical heritage, when in-fact they doing think twice about pissing on it. So much for the EDL being "proud English nationalists" as they claim!!!

Wren and Scampi


what are you lot doing

24.12.2009 14:49

Instead of just taking photos of them doing the NAZI salutes why dont you try and stop them.Thats what a counter protest is all about

Amused


Get a grip

28.12.2009 13:01

Are we obsessed with the EDL.We spend half our time following them round the country ,giving them the initiative

Eva