Following the COP15 protests via WWW is a weird experience. So far it just seems like a complete lockdown and quite small. Can anyone there send something that's inspiring and uplifting for those of us here looking in.

we feel so far away, literally. what the fucks going on?

it is watching from the other side of the world. This is our one and only home being destroyed by fucking nutters and there's fuck all people are doing about it. Where the fuck is everyone? Why aren't people doing stuff in their own countries?
I did not know that denmark is a fascist shit hole of a country til now,

i share some of your opinions, although i do think people are doing demo's and actions all over the world, they just aren't always discussed or advertised. but i get your point, our one home is being fucked and we cant really do owt about it!

just to point out, there has been a statistical rise in "left wing/eco/anti-capitalist-related" action in recent years, and these months leading up to joke-15 in jokenhagen, so poeple are fighting back, bu the system is with its laws and police and armies. they know we are the biggest threat to their way of life. i think an armed wing of the alternative globalisation movement is long over due. assassinations, bombings, kidnappings, bank robberies, arson and the like, will bring people to the cause and also step up the actions and bring this battle to the forefront of peoples lifes. WE ARE RUNNING OUT OF TIME.
armed actions wont save the world, but they will bring the fight to everyones minds and lives...that will bring more people out of their SLAVERY.......

or will it?

anyone got any ideas about this? lets start discussing this and see what people want to do........

Fran

You are equally as depressing as the complete disaster of Copenhagen. You seriously think that a movement that takes one year to organise a summit event but that is, in the end, so marginalised and unable to resist the police tacticsm is going to get some success from armed actions and killing politicians.

I wonder what ever happened to people who used to grasp exactly what capitalism is and could organise together to resist it's most basic forms. People seem obsessed with summit actions and social war and blah blah blah. I'm starting to get nostalgic for the old UK socialist movement - at least those people had some idea of social solidarity and hope

an armed "wing"....one aspect of a bigger movement. didnt you read it properly. it happens already, all over the globe, actually. mexico, chile, greece, america, london...militancy in the "movement" is not dead. but the socialism you prefer, is. is the socialism you prefer, like the one in greece right now? or france? pathetic excuses for nothiing near to socialism....is that what you advocate instead of total revolution for all and non-humans too? come on mate...the system will not go silently.......

we do need more action, whether you like it or not. IN MY OPINION.

Well, I'm certainly not a socialist. I was only saying that I prefer the sense of social solidarity that was around in the grassroots socialist movement of the past. By this I mean local activity and local movements that are based in attempting to have a clear resistance to the social relations that capitalism fosters upon us. I certainly have no love for traditional socialist politics as they are pretended to be played out in political parties or in Parliament (like New Labour, Pasok or whatever).

Why I said this was because a) the anti-capitalist movement in Europe is more or less completely marginalised and its insistence on big spectacular summit protests play into this. After one year of preparation, Copenhagen was a very small affair and totally derailed by the cops who for once were both highly intelligent and highly brutal.

One of the problems of the anti-capitalist movement is that, mostly, it doesn't really under stand the structural nature of capitalism and so it tends to respond to the effects of capitalism and doesn't address the day to day reality. That's why it seems to love these big symbolic actions against things - summits, corporations etc. But it rarely bases its movements on the day to day political and social reality of its participants (housing, work, alienation etc).

I'm suspicious of any armed wing that attempts to add-in more militant levels to struggle when even the most bread and butter politics are not in anyway addressed. In the main, militant armed actions increase repression, divide movements and are often a substitute for mass actions. They also don't tend to be very successful and lead to a lot of well-meaning people spending years in prison or being killed by the state.

This is not to say that sabotage, theft and direct action are useless but they work best when they come out of the mass struggle and are not isolated and elitist or based on dubious political reasoning.