there seems to be a bit of disagreement between different groups about meeting times and places. i think it's best we are all out by 10am in the city, at the risk of being a bit early - but rather early than too late right? a few extra hours in the cold isn't going to kill anyone, but letting them run around unopposed in this city is a very dangerous thing to risk.

now, a place to all meet? or a list of several meeting places? i think i am right in saying the edl are not going to (or are not allowed to) meet up in the market square because of the market etc. the other places i've heard mentioned are the 'ye olde trip to jerusalem' pub, and the robin hood statues outside the castle. does anyone have any more information, and can anyone actually agree on a meeting place?

it would be good to have some actual answers to this, not just complaining about other peoples' plans and negative comments.

Maybe all meeting in one place isn't a good idea. We don't want to be kettled. Best to keep mobile.

Hi
This is the email that the EDL have sent to all their members just yesterday. We are circulating it – please do too as it will really help to be as accurate as possible.
NB: the Wetherspoons Pub has agreed to play this role of welcoming and hosting the EDL. That should be known about, and a campaign to have pubs not open their premises for racist and fascists to meet and organise is going to be really important.




----- Forwarded Message ----
From: EDL The Forum
To:  noreply@zetaboards.com
Sent: Sun, 29 November, 2009 12:10:44
Subject: Nottingham Demo 05/12/2009


To all EDL members and friends.

You will find below details of our demonstration in Nottingham this coming Saturday 5th Dec.

Please follow the instructions in order for the day to run as smoothly as possible.

Travelling by car, train or foot:

Please make your way to Nottingham train station if travelling by car, train or any other form of transport (other than chartered coaches, details of which will be given to coach parties).

Once at the train station, please make your way to the Wetherspoons pub on Castle Wharf, which is situated next to the train station.

Demonstration Details:

Our demonstration is scheduled to start at around 2.30 with speakers arriving at 3.00. Please ensure that you are in the pub or the area surrounding with plenty of time to spare to avoid being turned away.

We have been allocated a spot close to Nottingham Castle for our demonstration, and the only permissible access to our demo site is up Castle Road, via Castle Boulevard. This is a short walk from the above pub.

Conduct on the day:

I don't need to tell you anymore, but for the record we are NOT a racist organisation, so will not tolerate any racist behavior. This includes racist chants or signs.
It is probably a good idea, whilst chanting or singing, if you feel the need to raise your arms (which most of us do) please do so with clenched fists.
We all know that there are organisations who will have photographers specifically looking for the opportunity to catch people out in this way, claiming, as they do that "The EDL were seen making Nazi salutes, and chanting racist songs" with a picture of a poor soul singing with his arms and hands outstretched.
Remember, this is PC England. If you are seen by the UAF Photographers (the Guardian included) singing the National Anthem or any other songs passionately, with your arms reaching the sky, it means you are a Nazi! (fools).
On the other hand, if you do see someone performing a "Nazi Salute", they should be told where to go immediately. The chances are, they have been planted by opposing groups, or the press and should be treated as hostile.

What to bring:

1: Earplugs.
Earplugs are most probably the most important piece of equipment you could bring. There is nothing worse than the screeching sound of thousands of mis-informed uni students shouting"Nazi scum etc etc etc blah blah".
2: Water
You will most probably be couped up and held in groups by police en route to, during and on return from the demo. Please respect this, as it is for the safety of residents, shoppers etc, but during this time you will get very dehydrated. The police may remove lids from these bottles to ensure that they cannot be used as potential missiles.
3: Sun-tan Lotion.
As you know, Nottingham can experience very high temperatures at this time of the year, so some sun-tan lotion is going to prove to be an invaluable piece of kit, especially for those of us getting a bit thin on top!

If there is anything i have missed out (not trivial please as i have man flu) please contact me via the forum, and if you have not been on the forum for a while please do so now as there has been a major re-structure, and it is far easier to navigate than before.

Well, we are expecting a record turnout on Saturday, lets hope its a nice day. We will see you in Nottingham!

Regards,
Trevor Kelway.

Is the English Defence League really fascist? Since when did demonstrating against Islamic extremism equal fascism? The English Defence League from what I have learned are a response to the Islamic preachers of hate like Abu Hamaza.

I have noticed that the general public do not consider the English Defence League to be racist or fascist and infact they enjoy the support of most members of the public who are fed up of Islamic preachers of hate who justify terrorist atrocities.

Lets face it you really hate the EDL because they tell the truth about extremist Islam and the Islamic terrorist threat. A threat that you yourselves are too afraid to confront because of political correctness.

to 'planner' - i agree we don't want to be kettled, but we don't have a list of places either. a lot of people are coming from all over the place, and nottingham is a big & confusing place, so where are people expected to go? i just don't want it to end up with a load of people wandering around trying to find people who want to go and face up to the edl and not managing to. for example, if you arrive at the train station, and there are only 3 or 4 of you, you don't want to wander around and be faced with 400 angry edl members.

to the 'edl fascist' person - i am assuming you're part of the edl, or support them. from the members of the public i've spoken to, they are all outraged that the edl are being allowed to assemble in nottingham, as it is a very diverse city and the edl have a reputation for being offensive and violent towards people of a different race. there are plenty of videos on youtube or elsewhere where you can see them/their members doing the 'heil hitler' salute, and shouting "i hate pakis more than you" and generally being vile and disruptive. just look at their behaviour in luton for one example, and ask yourself why they are now banned there. by all means come along on saturday and see for yourself.

So what if I want to demonstrate against Islamic extremism it is my democratic right even if it is politically incorrect to confront Islamic preachers of hate who preach about how evil western society is and how it must be destroyed.

I would also like to know why I am a racist and a fascist for using my democratic right to speak out against Islamic extremism and terror!

to "EDL and proud of it!" - i don't ever think i said i am happy with islamic extremism or islamic fundamentalism, but i don't see how this has anything to do with the actions of the edl i described in my last comment.

i also did not say that you have no right to protest, as you would have seen if you didn't skim over the comments and start keyboard-shouting. i am not calling the edl racist because they choose to demonstrate, i am calling them racist based purely on what they say and do, which i think is a pretty solid basis as they are pretty vile.

i don't think any person in their right mind goes "wahey yes, i love suicide bombers", but signs saying "no more mosques" and chants of "i hate pakis more than you" hardly have something to do with islamic extremism now do they?

by all means go out onto the streets and scream your racist chants and try to scare people, but don't think that this will go unopposed. there are far too many people who can see for a fact that mosques aren't what causes trouble, and just because someone is of a certain religion doesn't mean they are bad people at all. the way the edl act, and from what the edl say, you'd think people were running all over the country killing thousands of people - you tar all islamic people with the same brush - it's like looking at all christians as if they're all part of the KKK.

The EDL are a funny bunch, no matter how often they are faced with rational debate or a decent argument they will always resort to the notion that if you oppose the EDL then you must support Islamic Extremism. Of course most normal people don't think this way, it doesn't follow that if you oppose Al-Qaeda then you must support the UK government, or that if you oppose the UAF then you must support the BNP, maybe if you didn't like Oasis in 95 then you must have liked Blur? No one thinks this way apart from the far-right. The BNP will say that if you don't support them then you must support an open border policy. It's a simple tactic by simple people to try to set the political agenda.

Of course anyone whose been to an EDL demo will know that they have nothing to do with opposing Islamic fundamentalism and everything to do with opposing muslims in general, winding up locals, singing abusive songs about "dirty muslim bastards", abusing anti-fascists and generally looking for a fight (and sometimes getting one). Everyone knows their links with the BNP and the assorted far-right nutcases their demo's attract. They still act as if these characters who attend their demo's are planted by the state or are there to undermine the cause of the EDL but the reality is that aggressive nationalism and muslim bashing will always attract nazi's and fascists. All you have to do is skim through pages on the internet and read what people who attend their demo's are saying to see that the far-right in the EDL are not a minority but make up a large base of their support.

To antifascists unite and Planner

The internet almost certainly isnt the best place to make plans. This looks like the best chance we've had for a while to scupper the EDL - lets make them and the cops sweat by not knowing what we're up to!

to 'Word of caution' - i would love to be able to keep the police and the edl totally in the dark of course, but when people arrive at the train station or bus station or wherever, i just think it'd be good for them to know where to go if they didn't particularly want to do the static demo with uaf. i don't know how to get around this :/ i for one haven't a clue where i'm going when i get to the city!

This is the problem with this call out. You are waiting for people to mobilise, you do not know them or where they are coming from. Maybe a better way would have been for you to contact other anarchist and antifa groups across the country for a closed meeting rather than relying on indymedia!!!

For fucks sake, the point of organised resistance is to ORGANISE it not just sticking calls out on indymedia.

Good luck anyhow in Nottingham, fuck the UAF morons, EDL thick twats and the shiarah loving pricks. (maybe an idea for a banner slogan)

big up the red & black army!

no cops,
no masters,
no fucking fascist bastards!

The EDL was co-founded by BNP activists Chris Renton and David Cooling, NF activist David Tull, a self-confessed former drug-dealer called Paul Ray (who openly expresses support for UVF murderer and former Nazi rock guitarist Johnny "Mad Dog" Adair) and a convicted football hooligan called Jeff Marsh, who was jailed for STABBING two Manchester United fans.

EDL work in close alliance with a website called Casuals United, set-up by Jeff Marsh. Casuals United organised "Welsh Defence League" demos in Swansea - where they chanted "BNP, BNP, BNP" and were shown in The Daily Mail giving Nazi salutes and burning an anti-Nazi flag, and in Wrexham - where their demo was attended by skinheads Liam Pinkham and Mike Heaton from the openly Nazi "British Freedom Fighters" gang - who admitted on Stormfront that in the EDL Wrexham group they recognised supporters of the Nazi terror group Combat 18.

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enigQgv0gJ8
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZCDm-Ex7tE
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eeE9tJkdgg

"This is the problem with this call out. You are waiting for people to mobilise, you do not know them or where they are coming from. Maybe a better way would have been for you to contact other anarchist and antifa groups across the country for a closed meeting rather than relying on indymedia!!!"

So basically you want to keep this as a closed, elitist "only if you know them" mobilisation? you are probably unaware of the ground work that has gone in to get the people of Nottingham, and beyond out onto the streets to oppose the EDL, there is going to be a massive turnout, like when the NF held a protest at the prison, but this time even bigger. So maybe both approaches are needed here?

We have to have some meeting place, and ideas on the day, to prevent everone getting kettled, and that has to be public.

It is going to be a logistical nightmare for the Police, there is a Leicester v Forest football match, a troups homecoming parade, plus the UAF static demo in the market square and It's a very busy shopping day, I think that the UAF are holding a static demo, that has to be policed, goes in our favour, a different meeting point, were we are mobile from the begining, is going to stretch the police too much already,

Why doesn't Antifa organise the above that you mentioned itself? it's not like we don't already have a lot on here! Any other groups organising, and coming from outside of Nottingham, to oppose the national call out of the EDL, will be welcomed.

thank you 'Nottingham Anarchist'! i totally agree. we need somewhere to meet so that people who have nothing to do with any groups or organisations know where to go.

'London Anarchist' i totally agree that the internet isn't an idea place to plan things, but if you're saying loads of people should contact their local groups and get plans for there, what is honestly stopping police or the edl doing that too? nothing.

we need a meeting place, or even several meeting places if you wish, that are nothing to do with the uaf protest, so that people who do not want to do a static protest know where to go. of course the internet isn't ideal, but it's the best option we have unless you want to manage to get to every single person coming and tell them in person what to do, which is pretty much impossible. i know a lot of people coming will just be checking on the internet for where to do because they are not part of groups, this is their first demo, or they just like being alone and do demos like that.

it is pretty much accepted that there is going to be a massive police presence, not only to do with the edl but the football match and the troops coming home, so evading the police isn't exactly going to be easy anyway.

i just think we may be shooting ourselves in the foot if we have loads of anti-fascist activists arriving to nottingham and having no idea where to go - it's not exactly a tiny city.

"We have to have some meeting place, and ideas on the day, to prevent everone getting kettled, and that has to be public. "

Eh? You need one meeting point, for everyone to converge on, to STOP them being kettled? How does that work then? Having a public meeting point makes it exceptionally easy to get kettled (as past experience shows us).

I'll be coming down, but certainly not to some pre-chosen, publicly displayed on the net spot. I'll see where I'm needed the most on the day & will move around accordingly. I'd advise everyone else coming from outside the area to do the same & if coming alone keep a look out for groups of fash on your train.

A public meet up in one place is a recipe for disaster. Keeping low profile until you find the action sounds more sensible.

"A public meet up in one place is a recipe for disaster. Keeping low profile until you find the action sounds more sensible"

How do you propose we plan this for the 1000's of people from Nottingham, who will turn up to protest, a lot of whom don't have the same experience on demo's as "activists" have?

Leave them to wander down to the UAF meeting, or organise a meet up and try to keep people mobile?

Here's some ideas. building on what others have said and also what i reckon....

Move around with your mates, affinity group, or anyone that looks like their protesting about the same things as you and then tag along and try to build bigger and stronger groups.
some anarchists are organising as well as the SWP types and other randoms and none-affiliated people, so there will be "your side" out on the day, dont worry about that.
for everyone else, join the UAF! They will get kettled, but there's always hope of busting out of kettles and also they will be a big group, certainly not one scared of the EDL when in a big mass.

about the EDL: dont be scared if there's a smallish group of you, or even a few dozen, they are cowards, often only able to do anything when they know the police will intervene. the police can use laws against them that they have used against US, to take the "ring leaders" to court if EDL get violent. they therefore are scared of going to jail for their beliefs, and our work will be less harmful - to us - on the day. PLEASE DONT BE SCARED. there are a few things that people are planning as well as the fact THOUSANDS OF US WILL BE THERE WITH YOU!!

you wont be alone.
if you are alone, just watch your back...same advice as usual when around morons like fascists and police!!

City Council Leader Jon Collins has asked for no 'counter-demonstrations' against the EDL in Nottingham on Saturday.

He doesn't want the Christmas shopping to be interrupted.

See my blog at  http://alanadale.wordpress.com

"How do you propose we plan this for the 1000's of people from Nottingham, who will turn up to protest, a lot of whom don't have the same experience on demo's as "activists" have?"

The people of nottingham don't need to look up meeting points on the internet do they? The people of nottingham know the area, can all meet up with friends wherever they wish and if the anti-fash in notts are doing a decent job of it will be their to hlep the public.

None of that has anything to do with people coming from out of town, who once they reach notts can see where they are needed (which for most will be where the public and local anti-fash are converging on). Which is pretty much what anarcho-head said.