Public Meeting to oppose Points Based Immigration

No lies, no spies | 25.11.2009 22:29 | Education | Migration | Repression

Open public meeting on opposing the Points Based System for Immigration, Wednesday 2 December, 5PM in the Stretch, Goldsmiths, New Cross, SE14 6NW

poster

FREEDOM OF THOUGHT=FREEDOM OF MOVEMENT
STUDENTS are not SUSPECTS
UNIVERSITIES are not BORDER AGENTS

Open public meeting, organised by Goldsmiths UCU and Goldsmiths Students'
Union

The Stretch (Students' Union), 5PM, Wednesday 2 December

AGENDA:
The new 'points based' immigration rules represent a serious threat to
campus democracy and freedom of speech. They require non-EU students and
staff to have biometric ID cards, involve demands on the financial
background of applicants and mean that staff are obliged to report
students to the UK Border Agency when they have not attended regularly.

Come and hear why these new immigration controls are unfair, unwarranted
and undemocratic.

SPEAKERS:

Helena Kennedy QC, Labour Peer and Civil Rights Campaigner

Manick Govinda, Head of artists' advisory services, Artsadmin, and
initiator of the campaign against visa restrictions for artists

Tom Hickey, National Executive, University College Union (UCU)

James Haywood, National Executive, National Union of Students (NUS)

All welcome.

No lies, no spies
e-mail: gucu-admin@gold.ac.uk
Homepage: http://homepages.gold.ac.uk/ucu/

Comments

Hide the following 15 comments

What about the majority that want tougher controls?

26.11.2009 02:53

The majority of the population WANT stronger immigration control.

Why on earth do you think UKIP, BNP, and the Tories are doing so well at the moment? Answer: They promise tougher immigration policies and a curb on further integration with European nations.

I'm sorry but that's a fact and it will be represented by Tories, UKIP, and BNP doing well in the next election trancing Labour, Lib dems, and Greens. Why does everyone think that UKIP and BNP made gains in the Euro elections? One of the key issues that has caused a mass defection of working class people from the left towards supporting parties of the right is the issue of immigration. People fear having their jobs uncut by foreign workers who'll accept lower wages, they dislike the changing culture and how you can't walk through some areas without feeling intimidated now.

We on the left can deny this til our fingers bleed from furiously typing 'racists' and 'nazi', or we can accept that in order to be relevant to the interests of the majority of people in this country we need to take the issue of immigration seriously. Chanting no nazi's, etc just doesn't cut it any more.

The first party that says they'll reduce immigration controls as a part of their election manifesto is going to be a party that does extremely poorly in the general election. That's a sobering if not terrible fact, but one none the less.

Realisation

Religion

26.11.2009 09:04

Remember, anarchism is a religion: they don't care about what the majority thinks.

Minorities

26.11.2009 10:04

It is true that the majority of people in the UK are opposed to immigration; see link.
It is not true that Anarchists do not care about the opinions of the majority. Supporting a free and equal society, Anarchists do care about other peoples opinions. Anarchists do also care about the opinions and freedoms of minorities as well. Politicians seek to control other people while anarchists seek to live in a society where each controls their own life. Anarchists tend to not seek to represent majority opinions, whereas politicians do try to balance majority opinions with the interests of the rich. Anarchists seek to change society which requires changing peoples opinions to start with.
The ruling class also seeks to change our opinions; that is why they spend so much on advertising and news control.
One problem with opposing immigrants is that migration controls divide us (the working class) into "legal" and "illegal" people. This allows the employing class to attack "illegal" workers in the knowledge that their attacks will not be widely resisted. It means that our unions (eg the RMT) can be attacked and this reduces the freedom of everybody.

http://www.lcap.org.uk/?p=66

Some Anarchists do oppose immigration:

http://ianbone.wordpress.com/2009/10/27/remembrance-sunday-november-8th/

Not all No Borders activists in the UK are Anarchists:

http://wiki.noborders.org.uk/workspace/A-_Z_workspace

The group organising the meeting are presumably not anarchists; they have "speakers" who will be allowed an un-equal platform in this meeting.

One of No Borders
Homepage: http://beta.vita.it/news/view/98009

@Realisation: What makes you think Labour are any different?

26.11.2009 10:21

What makes you think Labour are any different? They are just as trapped into the fortress mentality as the other parties, and possibly even more into the authoritarianism thing. Outwardly, Tories = rule by the rich, Labour = rule by bureaucrats, although the reality is that both are rule by the rich and bureaucrats.

Just because government mouthpieces in the media whip up racial tensions over immigration (ironically Rupert Murdoch being an immigrant himself) doesn't mean ordinary people think it.

Maybe you work with and live around bigots who like authoritarian state control of borders (people tend to mix with like-minded people) but my experience is that when people get to know people, they don't give a shit what country they were born in.

There are no borders for the flow of capital for multinational companies any more so why should there be for ordinary people? Assuming you are genuine and not a state troll, why do you like bending over and taking it from the government when they tell you when and where you can and can't go, and make you fill in forms, jump through hoops and show your papers when you go from A to B? You have the classic Nu Labour mentality.

Would you like it if every county in the UK has a border round it and you needed to show papers to travel between them?

Why are you so scared of freedom?

@non

Hmm...

26.11.2009 11:03

An interesting pair of arguments:

1. Anarchists care about the opinion of the majority, which is why they ignore that opinion and seek to change it.
2. Anyone who disagrees with you is a bigot.

Also, I really don't care about the unions. They already have a disgusting amount of power, although fortunately a lot less than a few years ago. What does annoy me is that people with misplaced socialist tendencies are intent on destroying the identity of this country, and every other country, by homogenising every race of people throughout every country in the world.

It's easy to fall within the trap of restrictive ideology

26.11.2009 12:30

As I initially thought the desire to only work within the restrictive confines of political ideology means that even now people deny that immigration is an issue to the majority of ordinary people in this country.

I'm sorry but you can post links to leftist sources all you like or mumble on about racism/xenophobia or you can confront an issue that is central to many people in this country. If you go into your town today and spent a good 4-5 hours asking random people whether they want immigration controls reduced you'd find that the overwhelming majority of people will be horrified at the notion of reducing controls. I'd be surprised if more than 5% were in favour of reducing controls.

I used to only work within the restrictive confines of no borders ideology then I came to realise it's completely infeasible and simply alienates the average person. You cannot enforce reduced controls on a population which wants them increased.

When I ask you to go into your town centre and ask people their views, I actually mean that you should do it. It's easy to deny that immigration is an issue when we only exist behind the confines of our keyboards or exclusive social circles, however when you engage with the public (incidently the people you need if you are ever to make any progress) you find that immigration really is an issue to many people.

I know that can be difficult to swallow, but it's a fact that the Tories are going to win the next election and a big part of that is the perceived notion that they will sort out Labours immigration mess as one person put it when I was asking people the other day.

Realisation

speedy gonzales!!!!!!!!!!!!!

26.11.2009 12:50

Oh me oh my..

haven’t the racists got jobs to do......

it amazing how quickly the bigots respond to anything that dares to mention freedom of movement, makes you think they have too much time on their hands.......

@AH....

In response to your points (I am not a previous poster)

1 do show me a political ideology or party that doesn’t try and influence others?

(Why are you posting here for example? Or did you get directed here?)

2 don’t make me laugh!!! @non asked you why you are afraid of freedom? try answering.... this is known as debating,

You are a bigot--- you think that you being homogenised (is that like milk?) do tell what exactly it is that you mean by this? Do I take it that you don’t like Hollywood movies?

Oh and whilst I’m at it anarchism is not a religion but racism is a pseudo science!

@rchie

@realisation

26.11.2009 13:20

1 In what capacity do you wander around town centres asking people about their opinions on immigration, are you are pollster? Or a party worker? Or some kind of weirdo who asks random peoples their political opinions whilst claiming to have none of their own?

2 I recognise that the media consensus particularly the “trend setting” mail and express/star groups have been rampantly promoting an anti migrant agenda for a very long time , I am also aware that the BNP and UKIP have become skilled at using internet forums to promote their filth,

I am completely aware that a No Borders position is a very difficult position to discuss with people but discuss it I do. Sure it is currently a minority position, but then the abolition of slavery was also once a minority position. (your thoughts on that please?)

Incidentally I have a No Borders position (i doubt you ever have)...the people who are promoting the student event above don’t appear to, the subtly seems to be lost on you

On a related note please don’t use the phrase “working class” to mean poor and white... where I grew up I learnt to identify with my class and against my class enemies such as those who tried to divide us in terms of ethnicity or country of origin. My class does not have a skin colour!

3 To echo @non above
Why are you afraid of freedom?

4
“You cannot enforce reduced controls”
My you are funny!

@rchie

'anti-immigration' anarchists. . .

26.11.2009 14:10

. . .are a fucking piss poor joke.

(A)

@rchie

26.11.2009 14:13

1. This is not relevant to my my opinion.
2. I did not see this as relevant, as I am not afraid of freedom.

Insulting me does not make me wrong. Disagreeing with you does not make be a bigot. As for the definition of "homogenise", I suggest you use a dictionary. I really don't see the relevance of Hollywood.

Maybe I should have used religion as a simile for anarchism rather than a metaphor. Silly me.

@ realisation

26.11.2009 14:18

Ignore Archie, he'll be eating his own words when he realises that the lefts refusal to compromise on immigration results in the Tories sweeping into power at the next election with their promises of cracking down on illegal immigration.

Utterly deluded and blind to the average member of the public. No wonder there isn't a single communist or anarchist in a position of power in this country. The public doesn't trust them.

Archie can campaign on reducing border controls, and someone else can campaign on strengthening them. I wonder who's most likely to get elected... evidently not clueless archie who probably still thinks that the glorious revolution is just around the corner.

Hope you're looking forwards to a good few years of Tory rule come next year. There isn't a hope in hell that your 'Nu Labour let the whole world in' friends are going to win.

A proud Tory

good too see that the antifash posts get so many trolls

27.11.2009 13:51

So because a party will do poorly if it advocates no borders we should all just give up and become right wing? We should all say "oh yes, we'll never get elected if we don't pander to the very few people who actually vote so lets drop our principles and kill some ethnics!!"?

Jog on...

{A}

borders

28.11.2009 13:12

i wouldn't be keen on borders between counties, but borders between countrys makes sense to me.
People have had borders for 1000s of years.... they have them because they are necessary

If the UK was the only country in the world to have an open-border policy, we'd be unrun.
And i think they are good for keeping all the riff-raff out

Customs in the UK are different to other countrys. For instance, compulsory car insurance..... if the riff raff came into the country would they all buy cars, drive like maniacs and not bother to get insurance? Sod that.... keep the borders

Max

@Max - car insurance

29.11.2009 02:52

Ignoring the question of cars themselves and of state-run enforcements, I'm sure with modern technology it is within the abilities of countries to share information on who is insured to drive, etc. Anyway, I don't think the customs check you have insurance, driving license, etc. when you enter the country now, do they?

You like borders so much, why not have them for corporations too?

It should be a fundamental right for me, you and every other person on this planet to travel wherever they want, as long as they don't interfere with someone's personal living space.

Surely the freedom to go where you please is worth having?

The Labour Party would be proud of all the pro-border people posting here - it fits with their surveillance state mentality perfectly.

@non

I support this

29.11.2009 14:45

I fully support a removal of all border controls and freedom of movement. One question though - we are going to get rid of the welfare state and NHS first, aren't we?

NO BORDERS!