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Fighting Fascism Is A Task For Us All (Antifa Statement)

Antifa England | 28.10.2009 15:49 | Anti-racism | World

...

In the past in Britain (and still today in most other European countries) opposing fascism was considered a duty by almost all anarchists and socialists. Today, many (particularly within the British anarchist movement) have abdicated responsibility for taking on the fascists, and either ignore the issue completely, or at best seed responsibility to specialist antifascist groups such as Antifa. Opposing fascism is something ALL of us have to play a part in, particularly with the growing influence of fascist groups like the British National Party (BNP.)

Organizations like ‘Unite Against Fascism’ (UAF) and ‘Hope Not Hate’ would probably agree with the above premise. However, while many of their rank and file supporters may be genuine in their intent, the organizations themselves have no real interest in defeating organized fascism. The UAF is a front-group dominated and controlled by the Trotskyite ‘Socialist Workers Party’ (SWP) who are far more interested in selling papers and recruiting members than in effectively confronting the BNP. ‘Hope Not Hate’ were set up by the State-affiliated entity ‘Searchlight’, who tell us we can stop the BNP by voting Labour and helping to strengthen the tools of the State itself (i.e. new laws.) Both groups merely seek to manipulate and exploit antifascists, and arguably their stupid politics must take some of the share of responsibility for the rise of the BNP in the first place. At best they are a waste of time.

Antifa is a network of ordinary men and women opposed to the rise of the Far-Right. We work autonomously, but are united by a shared set of principles enshrined in our Founding Statement. If you support our position, you can get involved with one of our groups, or you could even set up your own. Ultimately however, we are not asking for people to join us; we are not asking for your contact details or for your money; we are simply asking for you to ACT.

While their true aims have not changed in the slightest, the BNP are trying to make the move from the shadows of neo-Nazism to mainstream politics. They are hiding their old swastika armbands under suit jackets and going out leafleting instead of petrol-bombing the homes of Asian families (leaving that kind of terror to their fascist allies and their ‘off-duty’ members.) They stand candidates in elections and regularly hold stalls in town centres around the country. Going public in this way however, makes them vulnerable.

Besides the BNP, there are other fascist groups who must also be opposed when they come out onto the streets. They are in many ways even easier to combat. In fighting organized fascism the only limits are our imagination and courage, even small numbers of people can make a difference.

Antifa however, also believe in organizing within our own communities against the spread of racism stirred up by everyone from the mainstream media to New Labour, and against the fascism of the BNP. Only by organizing in our own communities and workplaces can we hope to defeat fascism once and for all. In the white working-class areas where the BNP have already gained a toe-hold (primarily former Labour strongholds where people rightly feel betrayed by the mainstream parties and have been conned into seeing the BNP as some form of ‘radical’ alternative), as well as confronting the BNP physically, we should aim to challenge the BNP’s fascist politics and replace them with our own anti-racist, anti-state, and pro working-class politics.

These are desperate times for antifascists and all of us must play our part in taking on organized fascism. Antifa believe we have already shown on numerous occasions that a relatively small number of dedicated antifascists can score decisive victories. Most of our actions and activities go unreported, but the fascists know and fear us. Imagine what a difference it would make if there were thousands of us.

Antifa England
- Homepage: http://www.antifa.org.uk

Comments

Hide the following 55 comments

A Yes/No question for Antifa England.

28.10.2009 16:41

Do you have strong suspicions or evidence that state security services create or manipulate fascist gangs to attack progressive English groups?


I know that this was a security service tactic in Northern Ireland during 'the troubles' [1]. I speak as a Scot who was attacked by a local BNP 'white-power' drug gang just after I'd condemned a supposed peace activist who had boasted of his MI5 links, but I have no idea if this was simple coincidence.

I am not asking you to comment on my experience, and I also suggest you shouldn't comment on sectarianism in general since many working class 'loyalists' love to fight fascists, I simply want to know if there is existing evidence of state involvement in extreme right wing groups in England.


[1] How Britain created Ulster's murder gangs
 http://www.heraldscotland.com/how-britain-created-ulster-s-murder-gangs-1.834481

"British military intelligency actually created loyalist murder gangs to operate as proxy assassins. They even cleared areas in which the gangs were operating of police and army, to allow them to carry out their hits and escape."

Danny


Resisting Centralised Control in Britain

28.10.2009 16:46

Good statement Antifa England...

It seems to me that the Fascist movement has been helped rather than hindered by the mainstream political parties, which all seem to have Fascist inclinations these days.

I am very suspicious of all centrally controlled organisations, including the Communist and Socialist movements. They have very shadowy backgrounds and providence.

It seems to me that only individuals working on a local basis and building secure connections with those that they know they can trust have any answers to the emerging British Police State that we now live in.

I think you might be surprised at how many people are beginning to think along these lines. People from a variety of political and religious backgrounds who now realise that all organisations have been infiltrated and the leaders are selected rather than elected.

Most political and religious 'leaders' are now puppets being manipulated from behind the scenes. It seems to me that those who control the central banks and global corporations are the real power elite who are pulling the strings.

We all need to upgrade our strategy and tactics accordingly.

Little John


Good statement

28.10.2009 16:56

Good statement Antifa. The UAF and HnH may indeed feign agreement with the inclusive "Opposing fascism is something ALL of us have to play a part in" line. In reality though, autonomous antifascist action is the very last thing they want to encourage. As you say, the UAF is totally controlled by the SWP (nuff said) and HnH is not even a real organisation, it's just a Searchlight front (HnH don't even have a bank account - all donations made to them go directly to Searchlight for example) without even the barest semblance of democracy.

It's also good to see the wider movement being gently taken to task for their lack of engagement with antifascism. We see numerous examples of this all the time on Indymedia, a thread on the NF is currently being derailed because someone used the word 'cunt' for example, while Northern Indymedia doesn't even have a posting category for anti-racist or antifascist stuff.

Plenty of people seem to have nothing better to do than snipe at antifascists. Perhaps they will now set up their own autonomous antifascist groups and join the antifascist struggle in whatever way they feel able...But I doubt it.

Antifascist


Danger of anti-fascist groups trying to police the community

28.10.2009 17:23

In Portland, USA, where I live, a group called 'Antifa' has carried out a campaign of slander and harassment of left-wing activists they disagree with. They have singled out one respected activist in particular, and written graffiti on his workplace stating that he is a Nazi - a ridiculous lie. They sent a threatening letter to the family home of another activist. I don't know about the UK, but here, anti-fascists are more of a threat than fascists.

Jay Knott
mail e-mail: jayn0t@yahoo.com
- Homepage: http://palestinethinktank.com/2009/08/12/trial-by-indymedia/


What the fuck has this got to do with Antifa England??!!!

28.10.2009 17:45

"In Portland, USA, where I live, a group called 'Antifa' has carried out a campaign of slander and harassment of left-wing activists they disagree with. They have singled out one respected activist in particular, and written graffiti on his workplace stating that he is a Nazi - a ridiculous lie. They sent a threatening letter to the family home of another activist. I don't know about the UK, but here, anti-fascists are more of a threat than fascists."

Whoever this group are they have absolutely nothing to do with Antifa England. We also only have your side of this. A lot can be judged by your last sentence - More of a threat than fascists? You've obviously never seen pictures of Auschwitz you idiot.

Antifascist Always


Worse than the fascists

28.10.2009 17:51

Some graffitti and a nasty letter?! Are you for real?! Fascism has resulted in millions of deaths and the near extermination of one race. It's unbelievably insulting for you to even think about comparing antifascists in this way, not just to antifascists, but to the victims of fascism. Maybe if the antifascists of Portland are a bigger threat to you than the fascists there's a reason for that.

Whatchtalkinboutsucka


Antifascists just can't win

28.10.2009 18:01

Hard to believe - Antifa issue a statement encouraging autonomous antifascist activity in the UK, and some clown in Oregon (USA) chips in with some local and totally irrelevent story/smear titled "Danger of anti-fascist groups trying to police the community."

J.J.


Love the statement

28.10.2009 18:06

Its about time we saw a statement like this, nice one. My question now is, how do we go about organising Antifa into an organisation like it is in places like Germany.... Should Antifa stay a relatively low key organisation, or should we start organising public meetings? And even then, if that was to be done, how do Antifa go about doing that from where Antifa is now?

RobA


Smear against Portland Antifa - a blatant case of trolling

28.10.2009 18:14

See

 http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2009/06/392268.shtml

Rose City Antifa: Statement on Anti-Semites and their Collaborators
author: Rose City Antifa e-mail: fight_them_back [at] riseup [dot] net
Recent events have highlighted the fact that anti-Semitic organizers in Portland, Oregon are relying on "Leftist" spaces and groups to tolerate their efforts and ideology.
On Wednesday, June 10, Valdas Anelauskas, a self-described "white separatist" who is involved with Holocaust-denial circles, gave a presentation to a group of sympathizers in Portland, Oregon. The event was sponsored by the Portland 9/11 Truth Alliance, and was initially scheduled to take place at the Laughing Horse Book & Video Collective.

Members of Rose City Antifascists ("Antifa") —the Portland affiliate of the Anti-Racist Action Network—were among those who contacted Laughing Horse Books about the scheduled event. The Laughing Horse collective canceled the anti-Semitic event within 48 hours of being notified about its true nature. Subsequently the Portland 9/11 Truth Alliance moved Anelauskas' talk—on the topic of "The Frankfurt School and Cultural Marxism"—to a secondary venue, which was also discovered by Antifa and then persuaded to cancel on the day of the event. Unfortunately, Anelauskas' talk then went ahead at a third venue, a restaurant obviously booked at the last minute.

Valdas Anelauskas is a "racialist" (read: racist) activist currently based in Eugene, Oregon. This Lithuanian immigrant has assisted the World Anti-Communist League, an organization that supported Latin American death squads and has harbored former Nazi collaborators. Anelauskas is now active in the Pacifica Forum, a Eugene, Oregon organization which hosts Holocaust-denial speakers such as David Irving plus Mark Weber of the Institute for Historical Review. Anelauskas himself claims that the evidence for the Holocaust is "shaky", that Jewish people are responsible for "Bolshevism", and that the infamous Protocols of the Elders of Zion are credible. Anelauskas' position on Jewish people is clear:

"Only from people of that peculiar tribe can we expect such Talmudic hatred for humanity. There is even a famous saying that wars are the Jews' harvest."

While Portland 9/11 Truth Alliance activist Tim Titrud was one organizer for Anelauskas' talk in Portland, Titrud appears to have been assisted by a cast of several others, especially Tim Calvert, who is well-known in Portland as a co-founder of Laughing Horse Books as well as the Citybikes Workers' Cooperative. Calvert's conspiracy theories about Jewish power, and his denial of the Nazi genocide against the Jewish people, have been an open secret in Portland for years.

Footage of Anelauskas' speech, including an introduction by Tim Calvert, is available at the following link:

http://www. mefeedia. com/entry/pdx-9-11-truth-on-frankfurt-school-cultural-marxism-in-america/19360151

The anti-Semitic, racist and fascistic nature of Anelauskas' presentation is obvious. We would like to note, however, Tim Calvert's insinuation during the introduction that his critics are actually state agents—an extremely dangerous claim to make in the absence of any evidence.

Rose City Antifa strongly opposes attempts to make excuses for anti-Semitism, or to pretend that it is any less poisonous than any other form of racism. Anelauskas' speaking event in Portland took place on the same day that white supremacist James von Brunn opened fire at the US Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington, DC, murdering a security guard there.

By making its anti-Semitism explicit, and by organizing in association with racists, fascists and Holocaust-deniers, the Portland 9/11 Truth Alliance has shown its true colors. It has cleared up any confusion in anti-fascist ranks about how we should consider the organization.

With all this stated, we applaud the Laughing Horse Books collective for its brave decision to cancel the Anelauskas event at the store. We have now received information that Tim Calvert has retired from Laughing Horse Books, although this may or may not actually be the case. Needless to say, we believe that Laughing Horse should not host any future events of the Portland 9/11 Truth Alliance. We also believe that most of the Laughing Horse Books collective have acted commendably so far.

Rose City Antifa calls for the Citybikes Workers' Cooperative to remove Tim Calvert from the co-op, and to thereby stop putting food on his plate. We believe that those pushing organized Jew-hatred and pogrom politics should be collectively resisted. If a collective or co-op can't deal properly with an anti-Semitic activist within its ranks, then it does not deserve to be supported.

Other organizations involving Tim Calvert, such as the Cascadia Education Project, are also advised to take notice.

This statement is a beginning; other fascist collaborators should not consider themselves to have been let off the hook in any way.

No compromise and no half-measures!

- Rose City Antifa / Portland ARA
fight_them_back [at] riseup [dot] net

Not So Green


Jay Knott

28.10.2009 18:26

How sad and pathetic that Jay Knott has had to troll a thread on Antifa England to spread his lies. The post from Portland Indymedia gives a very different picture to the one he painted. "Policing the community"? I think most of us would call what is described as "Challenging racism". Either way it is completely irrelevent to this thread and a blatant case of trolling.

Get Knotted


Oh Danny,

28.10.2009 18:40

Take a break mate, get yourself outdoors. Enjoy the Indian summer (nice as we dident get an English one), but just stay away from the keyboard for a little while for youe own sake and the sake of humanity!

Cheers Fella

@narchist


Same old divisions...

28.10.2009 18:50

I have a lot of time and respect for Antifa and support its honest stance against the rise of the far right - I've actively supported it by attending/playing at fundraising gigs and such like, though I don't have any active involvement with any Antifa groups. It is disappointing therefore to see someone under the Antifa banner pretty much rubbishing every other group involved in anti-facist and anti-racist struggles - I don't see what dismissing the efforts of UAF, Hope not Hate and the anarchist movement achieve. The left is weak in the UK while the right gets stronger all the time because of these petty divisions, different groups refusing to acknowledge eachother and work together to achieve goals they share. No one group - Antifa included - is alone going to defeat the BNP or the rise of the far-right, it has got too strong. It might be worth thinking about changing your stance from slagging off these groups and looking at how we can all work together to achieve a common goal for a change.

Paul Newham
mail e-mail: nogsrocks@hotmail.co.uk


way 2 go

28.10.2009 18:56

good statement antifa

jo


uaf- fuck em

28.10.2009 19:24

Paul -sorry to have to break it to you but UAF is not only ineffective in stopping fascism, its is also DAMAGING. Iam not talking here about rank and file members that are mostly genuinely concerned about the issue (although they should stop behaving like a sheep and see the truth) but about their leadership that caused serious damage to anti-fascist movement by their control of every action they lay their hands on and turning it into ineffective, symbolic pathetic displays of helplessness. HnH is a state affiliated organization and as such cant be treated seriously by anybody considering themselves antifascists.
Nobody mentioned anarchist movement here btw.
Antifa can't fight the battle alone, but it definitely would do all of us a massive favor if UAF would disappear and stop ruining everything. If any of their membership are serious about combating fash effectively they should leave the group and start their own ones.

antifascist


A serious question for antifa

28.10.2009 19:40

just like to know how this statement got approved. Given the current 'unreported' aspects of antifa how this statement got authorised by the federation as a whole?

No problems with the content, just concerned about the autonmous activities of some going under the antifa name and maybe jeopardising the prospects of those in uncertain circumstances?

No comment


Well done Antifa

28.10.2009 19:49

Turning Antifa into a federation of autonomous groups is the best way forward at this time.

The UAF are idiots and continue to constantly publicise the BNP and support religious fascist nutters.

The future is small autonomous groups agitating in our communities aswell as getting hands dirty.

Bring on the long war.



Interesting analysis by the IWCA here for those interested in getting away from the lie of multicultural and identity politics being banged about by the redundant left  http://www.iwca.info/?p=10146

Cedric


What has this got to do with Antifa England?

28.10.2009 20:26

Well, someone thinks it's relevant, since he or she has given their side of the story: "Smear against Portland Antifa - a blatant case of trolling". Of course its relevant - Antifa is an international movement. Yes 'Antifascist Always' I have seen pictures of Auschwitz. I've also seen pictures of the bombing of Dresden. I was referring, not to fascism's historical crimes, but to the dangers in one community today. There is no fascist threat in Portland. There is a small anti-fascist threat. They have sent a threatening letter, published statements that they would like to "kick their asses" - not fascists, but left-wingers they disagree with! 'This statement is a beginning; other fascist collaborators should not consider themselves to have been let off the hook in any way'. Violent threats should always be 'called out', to use the anti-fascists' own language.

Jay Knott
- Homepage: http://palestinethinktank.com/2009/08/12/trial-by-indymedia/


a plea

28.10.2009 20:35

I know this is the wrong place for calm argument but may I make a plea to end ALL EXTREAMISM.

Facists killed millions in WW2
Communism/Far left etc killed millions in russia, china, Eastern europe etc

how about the human race just stops behaveing like spoilt rich uni kids on a gap year. We bleat about civil liberties and human rights...how about human responsibilities.

anon


So?

28.10.2009 21:27

What has the fact that nazism and communism being responsible for holocausts etc got to do with Antifa?

A-Nonny-Nonny


Some comments

28.10.2009 21:31

Paul Newham is correct to say that no one group will defeat the BNP or the rise of the far-Right, that's the point of this statement, more people need to start getting off their backsides. The Right however does not get strong because of 'petty divisions', it's far more complex than that, but certainly the likes of the UAF and HnH are not helping matters by exploiting the legitimate anger of well-meaning antifascists and channeling it into safe, manageable 'protest' (or in the case of HnH not even that - just send us a few quid and write to your MP.) Such behaviour needs to be critiqued. UAF stewards at the anti-EDL demo in Manchester were actively engaged in grassing antifascists up to the cops, as well as continually trying to stop any form of direct action. Such behaviour from the SWP (for that is who we are talking about) is hardly anything new and should be entirely expected. That old 'Can't we and the Trots just be pals' line might sound attractive to those who just want to drift along on a sea of lollipops and 'Anti-Narzi' chants, but it is incredibly politically naive.

No Comment - If you are involved with Antifa you shouldn't need to ask how this statement got approved, and you should know better than to make that post. If you're not, don't expect a reply on a public forum. Needless to say it was produced both collectively and democratically.

As for Jay Knott, as has been said, you are blatantly trolling this thread. Can you please respect that this is a discussion centred on antifascism in England, and nothing whatsoever to do with Portland, Oregon?

Antifa activist


Hope Not Hate

28.10.2009 21:44

Good analysis of HNH in the latest 'Notes from the Borderland'.

Anarchist


FAO Paul (above)

28.10.2009 21:52

' It might be worth thinking about changing your stance from slagging off these groups and looking at how we can all work together to achieve a common goal for a change.'

That might be just naive Paul, but it's also incredibly patronising. Don't you think loads of us have tried working with these groups (and their forebears) before? Some of us have been at this for decades. Time and time again we have been shafted. It's hardly anything new, hardly anything you wouldn't expect from the authoritarian Left (or in Searchlight's case - the State.) If you can't wake up and smell the coffee please don't assume that everyone else is just being sectarian. There are very good reasons not to work with the UAF/SWP and with Searchlight, reasons that should hardly need repeating - except that it seems some people constantly need reminding. There are plenty of good well-meaning people in the UAF - but they're having their time and energy wasted and exploited by their poisonous (SWP) leadership.

Another Antifascist


Something missing?

28.10.2009 22:02

No mention of recent arrests in antifa, with some on bail restrictions .
I would like to know who put this out, there is a thing called a honey trap.

The security services have infiltrated antifa, and anyone who denies that is a liar.
If the security services can get inside the IRA and UVF, I don't think there is much problem getting into antifa is there?
After the first few arrests people talk, that's how people are. Then jail awaits.
Some arrested are turned into informers, look at the history of the IRA.
And that is what has happen now in antifa.

Independent groups forming, what you just take on who comes along?
Organising violence or just talking about it, will cost many serious time away.

Paul


Missing link

28.10.2009 22:13

Paul, you are either a troll, a cop, or just a complete fucking idiot.

Antifascist


Paul

28.10.2009 22:19

"I would like to know who put this out"
Can't you read? The statement is signed and here on the Antifa England site:  http://www.antifa.org.uk/nucleus3.32/nucleus332/

You tin-foil helmet conspira-loons spend so much time hiding behind the sofa, you really don't know what's going on in the real world do you? Then again, you're probably a cop trolling for info and trying to persuade others to hide behind the sofa.

ACAB


What IS this idiot on about?!

28.10.2009 22:24

"we are not asking for people to join us; we are not asking for your contact details or for your money; we are simply asking for you to ACT. "

"there is a thing called a honey trap"

Yeah it's fiendish that one!

(There are also some people who are generally called 'IDIOTS'!)

White Coat Squad


Antifa

28.10.2009 22:27

Good input as usual from Paul and as far as I am concerned 100% on the ball.
Antifa in england must have changed their previous stance, what has happened to the house inspections and wanting to know everything about people wanting to get involved.
Could have told you over two years ago it was a dumb thing to do.
The less you know about your comrades the less you can divulge when put under pressure from the forces of the crown.

Deep behind enemy lines


Bollocks!

28.10.2009 22:27

'The security services have infiltrated antifa, and anyone who denies that is a liar.'

Fuck off copper!

Sqiddy


Agreed

28.10.2009 22:28

Paul is correct, there have been arrests.
There is an on going police investigation into ANTIFA.
I hate to say it, put someone has been talking to the police.

June


Deep behind enemy lines?

28.10.2009 22:33

'Good input as usual from Paul'

Oh, you know each other? How convenient. Want to tell the rest of us who this Paul is?

'Deep behind enemy lines' ? You mean you both work out of the same police station?

Antifa groups remain as security-conscious as ever.

Nice try


Troll Alert!

28.10.2009 22:37

Agreed
28.10.2009 22:28

Paul is correct, there have been arrests.
There is an on going police investigation into ANTIFA.
I hate to say it, put someone has been talking to the police.
June

What absolutely fucking pitiful trolling! 'June' is it now?!

Guess all you like mug, it means fuck all to those of us involved. You'd really have to be thick not to see through this.

Antifascist


Jog on Troll!

28.10.2009 22:47

"And that is what has happen now in antifa."

And you'd know? I don't think so!

@nti-fascist


Good statement ANTIFA

28.10.2009 22:50

Good statement ANTIFA. Ignore the trolls and the armchair snipers.

Nazi Hater


"Deep behind enemy lines"!!

28.10.2009 22:56

"Could have told you over two years ago it was a dumb thing to do. "

So why didn't you?

"The less you know about your comrades the less you can divulge when put under pressure from the forces of the crown."

Right, so we just work with people we don't know? Brilliant! You've been reading too many Commando comics sonny!

Captain Mainwaring


what we really need...

28.10.2009 23:08

...is one of those cool pictures like "Troll Spray" or "Troll Alert" or even "Warning trolls ahead" like a highway code sign. Then we can all backslap each other and have a good smug self satisfying giggle before sleeping soundly tonight

Henry Julius Compton


Northern Indymedia

28.10.2009 23:12

Strange. Wonder why this article has been taken off the Northern IMC site.

Leeds activist


Henry

28.10.2009 23:19

Very funny Henry (above), but come on! theres some of the most blatant trolling I've seen in a long time on this thread! Are NETCU at it again I wonder? Right that's me off to bed smug and self-satisfied!

zzzz


Good statement Antifa

28.10.2009 23:21

Just a shame 90% of the comments have got sweet FA to do with it

Tom Jones


To @nar©hist

29.10.2009 00:22

Ta, fella, I spend plenty time outside. Maybe you should spend more time on your keyboard learning how to spell and argue like an adult.

My question was 'Have British state security services ever been caught creating or aiding fascist gangs on the UK mainland?' A 'No' would've sufficed. I apologise to Antifa if that seems a distraction from an obviously important statement but I simply don't know and wanted to ask the people who would.
There never used to be any local fascists operating openly here and I assumed there never would be, so I've never taken a great interest in the way they operate in England. Those that are here now are little more dangerous than any other drugs'n'knives gang, even less so now they've been identified on the BNP list.

Danny


FEBA

29.10.2009 01:43

FEBA, (Forward Edge of the Battlefield Area) is a Hamilton based charity setup by Tommy Moffat that aims to help former soldiers. Last year it was invited to a SNP government do at Edinburgh Castle that I was also invited to.

Today FEBA invited Nick Griffin to a Hamilton Radio Station because a local BNP supporter donated £3000 plus some kit, on his way to campaign in the Glasgow NE by-election. Larkhall, nearby, is one of the few Scottish towns targetted constantly by fascist propaganda over decades. Griffin was pelted with eggs by protestors, forcing him to withdraw from electioneering here and the stations advertisers have withdrawn funding. The L107 studio on Bothwell Road later admitted it was 'commericial suicide' to invite him - but they don't know the half of it yet, it was more than just commercial suicide. Hopefully this will be the turning point where the orange community turns on the white supremacists.

The SNP have condemned this stunt as have every Scottish party and every Scottish military group. It is harder to deal with a decent charity that accepts fascist funding, but FEBA have crossed a line. Every effort will be made to rehabilitate their existing work within a respectable military charity such as 'Combat Stress'.

Danny


Come on Antifa is smarter than this, heres an assement many ex afa agree with

29.10.2009 05:12

Bashing the fash like in 1980s & 90s is harder now & though an effective after afew years the BNP have bounced back in suits, if we just ambush & bash em on the streets it will only gain them support& this is why alot of exAFA still active antifascists avoid Antifa.
Best tactic for antifash is to organise smartly on demos & if the BNP or EDL attack citizens arrest or self defend this looks appeaing to the public & gets more involved. Also worth getting evidence on nazi bnp combat 18 activists who are usually known in many cities by antifash & then passing info to the any antifash political figures to make sure police do something about it, then discreet action maybe worth it. Discreetly shutting down or making sure nazi companies get properly taxed is also worth doing.
Most importantly lets get involved in campaigns that aim for more democracy at every level&that arent too party political, this is the exact opposite of what fascists want & direct democracy is appealing. Getting millions who abstain to vote for candidates up for more direct democracy as well as organising in usual ways can only help, abstaining isnt working.
Getting into fueds on the streets is not the way forward, this is what Antifa England seems to be promoting, it puts alot of people off& can get people arrested wether idiots or not. Now Griffins a MEP making him a martyr isnt a good idea, getting him taken away by men in white or blue coats is a good idea, as he is already a foaming physcotic under the suit, white coats would be the most effective.
There are some amazing people in Antifa, dont waste your lives & fall into any traps. Change the wording from overt physical confontation to self defence of people & democracy

night shift


Not the Place

29.10.2009 07:13

this cybertalk is weird, anyone in the world can spout of on here.
As someone in the know it is really funny to hear some of the comments.
Some of you do not have a clue.
To those on the frontline onwards and upwards!
I commend your brave challenge to the status quo, to the rest - get a life!
As I said before, I was previously involved but not prepared for the house inspection

deep behind enemy lines


FAO 'nightshift' and 'D.B.E.L.'

29.10.2009 10:29

Thanks for your comments 'night shift'. As you perhaps know, many ex-AFA are involved with Antifa. Antifa use a very wide range of tactics (much wider than many clearly imagine), which include physical confrontation where that is appropriate, but do not include advocating voting or dealing with the police. It is certainly the case that physically attacking the BNP is not always the most effective tactic in all circumstances (though not generally because that would garner support for them.) Closing down their street-stalls and leafleting forays can be accomplished very easily however, and without arrests. Hanging around UAF demos is probably the easiest way to get nicked. Antifa England is not promoting 'street feuds' it's promoting the idea that everyone needs to take the BNP seriously and get out there to do something about it, with tactics dictated by circumstance.

'deep behind enemy lines' - If you're who I think you are, why don't you get in touch with your pal on the inside?

Antifa supporter


Defending democracy

29.10.2009 14:16

a system of referendum, consensus politics & voting & delegation works well in Switzerland, despite its corrupt banking system. Despite being "conservative with a small c", it has about a 33% immigrant population that has been repeatedly accepted at referendum. It would be even better if it had more economic democracy.
I understand why you dont want to work with the police, shame that their force still has a undemocratic reputation, whilst there isnt real democracy their force will be largely corrupt, especially in political& business matters. Though even in a anarchist society using direct democracy a delegated,regulated force of law-health regulators would still be necessary to deal with people who for whatever reason extremely abuse others.
Ive helped deal with quite afew extreme abusers,after bashing many go home lick their wounds & go undercover, besides arrest this only leaves extra harsh measures, or imparement & imprisonment, I think we should increase links with any good people in the NHS white coat brigade. White coats are necessary for all blood thirsty dictators types, many police agree with this, but yeh any undemocratic force cant really be trusted, its a shame.
Government should be careful, fairplay is a very british tradition, people are becoming more educated & many across the spectrum view Antifa as hero's, majority really believe tyrants like Hitler should have been locked up or assasinated before he could lie his way to33% & crush democracy. They are carrying out a tradition made by churchill,hemingway& Orwell.

Speaking in the House of Commons in 1937, Churchill said "I will not pretend that, if I had to choose between communism and Nazism, I would choose communism"
 http://wiki.answers.com/Q/When_did_Winston_Churchill_say_If_Hitler_invaded_Hell_I_would_
make_at_least_a_favorable_reference_to_the_devil_in_the_House_of_Commons

night shift


GET OUT ON THE STREETS!!!

29.10.2009 15:08

Nice statement but a simpler one would be GET OFF YOUR FUCKIN ARSES N GET OUT ON THE STREETS!!! What is up with people? They find plenty to moan about on here but most of them do fuck all. The BNP are more active than us that is the problem.

Bash the fash


FAO Danny - State involvement in fascist groups

29.10.2009 15:40

Hi Danny,

In reference to your question at the beginning of this thread, in my personal opinion there is evidence of state involvement and manipulation of fascist groups, but I have not seen evidence of that extending to attacking progressive groups. Maybe others think different, I don't know.

Antifa member


My final open air post

29.10.2009 17:17

D.B.E.L. relates to where I live not where I work - to the clever morons that can't put 2 and 2 together.
You can take direct action without being involved with Antifa but it does help.
As for the flag waving UAF and hope not hate platoon there are some good people involved with both, but yes I agree their overall agenda is not quite right.
I am not sure if I am who you think I am but I will contact the aforementioned contact and see where it leads. But please please don't ask for a house visit again - you know the reply and it is not pleasant.

Deep behind enemy lines


"I used to shoot people like you"

29.10.2009 20:36

Thanks Antifa member. Good luck and all strength to you. The original title isn't 100% accurate, fighting fascism isn't a task for all of us, for some it is a pleasure. The BNP stooge in Glasgow NE yesterday came face to face with 82 year old James Murray of the Royal Engineers who shouted with a grin the classic line: "I used to shoot people like you".
Just as fascists have no place in any other group, every other group must be mobilised against them, but especially the regiments who fought their Nazi forebears.

Danny


D.B.E.L.

30.10.2009 00:04

You know who to contact, we were both at Lewisham.

...


Too decentralised; too disorganised - so far

31.10.2009 02:36

The Antifa statement is asking too much of people. AFA was a national federation which brought together serious anti-fascists of various political stripes under the banner of 'no platform'. It had a public face. There was something for people to join. There was something for everyone to do, whatever their skills or preferences. There was a structure. There was a strategy. There was support. There were ways of communicating ideas, news and experience. It wasn't perfect, but it was successful - ask the Nazis.

By stating that they don't want people to join them, Antifa are rejecting all of these things. They are relying on spontaneity. They are assuming that individuals will suddenly set up groups on their own, that they will adopt the 'correct' tactics, and that they will have sufficient knowledge of the hundred things that a militant anti-fascist movement must be good at to succeed. It is asking too much.

If Antifa are going to have an impact they need to provide a lead. They need to come out of deep cover and suggest a few things, organise a few things, create something, other than a name. People go on anti-fascist demos these days and don't know where Antifa is, how to link up with it or what, if anything, it's doing. It's so underground that no-one can bleedin' find it!

And it's no good saying that YOU are Antifa and YOU decide what it does. That's utopian nonsense which will mean that 99% of anti-fascists WON'T be Antifa because too much is being asked of them at too early a stage. YOU who are already in Antifa are Antifa and it is YOU who have the responsibility to provide a real vehicle for your ideas and a realistic means of bringing in new people.

ALL anti-fascist activity is going to attract police attention. The trick is not to try and disappear, leaving only a website and a statement on view, but to be able to survive the attentions of the police while still providing a focus and an argument for militant activity; a physical and ideological counter-balance to those groups which Antifa criticises. A public profile does not preclude effective action against fascism any more than invisibility precludes arrest or imprisonment.

Direct action can be carried out by small or large groups, inspired by, even discussed by, but not officially organised by a public organisation. But without that organisation in the first place, many of those wishing to take direct action are left isolated, in the dark and vulnerable. People join a militant movement, then form direct action groups with people they get to know and trust, not the other way around.

In addition, invisibility leaves no roles for those who wish to provide the myriad functions an effective movement needs. Where are the intelligence-gatherers, the researchers, the spotters, the drivers, the writers, the bloggers, the ideologues, the printers, the bands, the legal advisors, the prison visitors, the flyposters, the leafleters, the first-aiders, the fund-raisers, etc supposed to go? How are they to be co-ordinated in support of direct action against fascism? 'No platform' is an idea, as well as a tactic. It needs something public to argue for it, explain it, promote it and organise around it.

Antifa will be judged on how well it does AFA's old job in changed times.

Anti-fascist pensioner


Surely one answers their own questions and points...

01.11.2009 09:59

"Antifa will be judged on how well it does AFA's old job in changed times."

The reason AFA no longer exist is because times changed. Antifa are not some sort of replacement and have no intention of being judged doing 'AFA's old job'.

Different times, different organisation.

Anarkite


Too decentralised; too disroganised - so far

01.11.2009 13:55

Different outcome.

Anti-fascist pensioner


Get involved

02.11.2009 15:26

You make some very good points 'anti-fascist pensioner', but the bottom line is that we need more people to actually get involved. Antifa groups have existed for some years now, not all are perfect, but they DO welcome new members. Unfortunately antifascism isn't as 'fashionable' as it was in AFA's day. Certainly there are roles for spotters, photographers, leafleters, etc - all of which some Antifa groups make good use of. Antifa are not trying to be 'invisible', we just want to encourage autonomous action. We welcome those who agree with our point of view, but we also welcome antifascist activity by those who prefer to work outside our network. Personally I'd love to see a strong militant antifascist organisation like AFA again, but to build that more people are going to have to get off their backsides and get involved. The statement above is intended to be a new start for Antifa, we hope we can build upon that start, with the help of the wider movement. We have other initiatives planned. Watch this space. In the meantime, if you want to get involved in stopping the BNP and the EDL please contact your local Antifa group.

Antifa activist


Just do it

11.01.2010 15:54

Iv met similar minded types at demos.Iv found uaf ans socialist workers party useless.Just go out and get the job done comes to mind and hopefully youll attract like minded people who'll do the same

steve

steveisscum
mail e-mail: swellbelly@hotmail.co.uk