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Harrow Mosque UAF Demo - Where were the Fash????

Curly AF | 11.09.2009 20:02

Thousand plus out in force and... no Fash!

Just got back from Harrow mosque UAF demo. Big big turn out. No sign of the fash. Were there from 4-7, very positive meeting, good speakers, lots of solidarity on the whole. Could call it a victory as the fash never showed, probably reckoning their handful of pissheads couldn't take on a street full of demonstrators. Cops moving in on angry protestors looking to vent some of their energy. Turning violent as we left. Interested to see how media will spin this, some very unifying moments but will probably concentrate on 'extremist' element (yawn).

Curly AF

Comments

Hide the following 21 comments

The fascists were there in force

11.09.2009 20:17

The fash were the ones on the street preventing fellow citizens from utilizing their right to free speech.

No wonder the majority of people in this country have such a low opinion of the left, just as bad as the government when it comes to preventing free speech. It's a sort of tragic irony when the so called anti-fascists are the ones guilty of what can only be described as fascist behaviour.

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Evelyn Beatrice Hall

Somewhat amused

Being against Islam doesn't make you a fascist

11.09.2009 20:26

Just because Islam is followed by a minority doesn't mean we should defend a repressive violent ideology. I find it strange that so many on the left defend an ideology that is homophobic, sexist and intolerant of others.

Tod

ERRRR....

11.09.2009 20:32

You've missed the point friend. The arena was there. They had pre-planned their demo. We were waiting for what they had to say, but the scum stayed clear... BNP/EDL have voided their right to freedom of speech by impeding the rights of others with everything they have to say.

Curly AF

Tod

11.09.2009 20:58

Try this

Being against Judaism doesn't make you a fascist

Just because Judaism is followed by a minority doesn't mean we should defend a repressive violent ideology. I find it strange that so many on the left defend an ideology that is homophobic(1), sexist(2) and intolerant of others.

(1) http://judaism.about.com/library/3_askrabbi_o/bl_simmons_samesexrelations.htm
(2) http://www.kgv.edu.hk/rs/GCSE/Sexism%20in%20Judaism_files/frame.htm
(3) http://www.economicexpert.com/a/Jews:as:a:chosen:people.html

Is that fascist?

doT

To Curly AF

11.09.2009 21:05

The arena was there? Evidently it wasn't. Even when Islamic leaders appealed for calm, antifascists and youths started bottling the police and trying to break through the lines, the 'antifascists' had no interest in waiting for what anyone had to say they were simply there for a fight. Anyone with an ounce of common sense knows this, after all I was like you once I used to attend the anti-BNP and NF demos until I realised the hypocrisy of my actions.

"BNP/EDL have voided their right to freedom of speech by impeding the rights of others with everything they have to say", that confirms it quite frankly... you're a hypocrite of the worst kind. Frankly going by your very own logic you've voided your own right to freedom of speech by impeding the rights of others today. Congratulations, by your very own words you yourself are not no better than the fash.

Somewhat amused

And now for something completely the same

11.09.2009 21:17

Yes, cue really really dull thread where liberals praise free speech and call anti-fascists 'fascists' as if the obvious right-wingers who turned up would be so reciprocal for their free speech. Cue boring debate about religions. Cue boring everything. Welcome to the usual threads

Enjoy!

Well done everyone in Harrow! And I say this because if they didn't stand up then this continues to happen:

 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1211556/Devout-Muslim-dies-savage-beating-race-hate-gang-granddaughter-three.html

Yawn

Not celebrating

11.09.2009 22:48

Personally, I am not celebrating what happened today. Whats anti-fascist about the demo? Were people against the politics of fascism? Seems like there were probably more Islamists that actually support a form of fascism - Islamic fascism - that were against it.

If people are going to report on events like these then be clear. It was one group of people with a shared identity politics against a much larger group with similar identity politics.

EDL and similar groups are NOT growing, there numbers are getting smaller. They have failed to mobilise large swathes of the population to their activism, though many (including many muslims) would empathese with their positions againsts extremism. For the left or anarchists to choose sides is a mistake. Lets not get caught up with what is an irrevelant game between reactionaries looking for a fight, and get on with the bigger problem of building a combattive working class that truly seeks to change the world for everyone.

Anarchist Antifascists

Judaism is slightly different to Islam

12.09.2009 00:21

Judaism and Islam are both repressive and bullshit (like all religions) but there is a small difference in that I think you have to be born into Judaism (matriarchal). So it is more of a social or cultural group than other religions where people can join or leave if they want, and where they actively seek new converts.

i.e. if you mother is Jewish, then you are Jewish whether you like it or not, and whether you agree with its ideology or not.

That said, the anti-Islamists from the EDL seem like they are just fascists looking for an excuse to whip up a bit or support for their own bullshit by exploiting people's general dislike of religion. So it's always good to see them get a beating.

atheist

Good mobilisation and the fash didn't dare show

12.09.2009 08:57

I was there between about 5.30 and 7pm.

Very positive I thought - about 1000 to 1500 on the streets outside the mosque. Mainly young local Muslim youth, small numbers of the left, SWP types and few trades unionists. Didn't see any identifiable anarchists. I think the local MP, AM and council has been pretty supportive of the mosque which was good.

Size of mobilisation by local Muslim community and the number of properties boarded up - including people's houses not just shops showed the fear of violence as seen in Birmingham.

Apparently around 20-30 EDL were in a local pub but didn't dare show themselves. Reports that at one point around 2pm about 3 EDL members (who were trying to get their mates in the pub to help) were surrounded by 100 young Muslims and had to be protected by the police.

Most of the time I was there, there was no sign of the fash. At one point a couple of hundred or so of the young people surged north up the street - in response to what I think is shown in this Channel 4 video.  http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/uk/muslims%20in%20police%20clash%20at%20harrow%20mosque/3340802

Note the guy in dark glasses saying "none of us are in a political group...in fact I'm a Tory...this is England and we should be able to demonstrate". Idiot. And Stephen Gash from 'Stop Islamisation of Europe' is pathetic.

Bit of argy-bargy when the police pushed people back and contained/kettled one end of the street preventing people reaching Harrow and Wealdstone station.

A very good mobilisation by those who know the EDL are part of the fash and probably linked to the BNP. The left needs to turn out in stronger numbers to support the demos against the EDL - noting the comment above, anyone calling themselves an anarchist and doesn't support these demos is a strange one - an anarchist who refuses to be an anti-fascist.

BF

Not that different

12.09.2009 09:54

You can convert to Judaism:

 http://www.convertingtojudaism.com/?wcw=google

You can also choose to leave:

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_assimilation

Both acts have been done by many

toD

thanks to toD for the links

12.09.2009 12:43

I'm no expert on Judaism, so thanks for the links.

I guess it isn't cut and dried as you have different branches of Judaism:

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_is_a_Jew#Jews_who_have_practiced_another_faith

"In general, Orthodox Judaism considers a person born of a Jewish mother to be Jewish, even if they convert to another religion.[12] Reform Judaism views Jews who convert to another faith as non-Jews in all respects."

Religious rules are totally crazy and arbitrary anyway, even if they did have a historical basis whose reason was forgotten long ago.

But I think it is fair to say that religions like Christianity and Islam are "proselytizing" i.e. they actively seek to gain new converts to their religion:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proselytism, whereas Judaism doesn't do this.

So if someone attacks Judaism, an atheist born to Jewish parents might feel it is more of a personal attack than would an atheist who was brought up a Muslim if they heard an attack on Islam.

My ancestors were Christian as far as I know, and although I still get presents for child relatives at Christmas, so I am so some extent a "cultural Christian", I don't feel under attack if someone criticizes Christianity - in fact I usually agree with them.

atheist

One group of fascists vs another

12.09.2009 13:28

Anti fascists? Don't make me laugh, all religions are fascist in nature and seek control. Those who turn up on these demos are completely deluded liberal SWP & UAF types, since when was it a case of buddying up with one group of fascists over another?

All religions are evil, chauvinistic in nature, and persecutors of those they do not agree with. Christianity, Hinduism, Islam, etc are all guilty of attacking gay rights, women's rights, and non believers.

Fuck that! No gods, no masters, no exceptions!

Fuck Religion, fuck fascism

Being Muslim in a racist society

12.09.2009 14:04

"So if someone attacks Judaism, an atheist born to Jewish parents might feel it is more of a personal attack than would an atheist who was brought up a Muslim if they heard an attack on Islam."

An atheist brought up as a Muslim might well regard an attack on Muslims as an attack on their community. In this society I think it might well be easier for someone born of Jewish parents to assimilate, than someone born of Muslim parents.

The lie of this all is that the EDL say that they are only targeting 'extremists' but they are really attacking ordinary Muslims.

toD

was not a UAF demo. where the fuck were antifa?

12.09.2009 14:08

Lets get a few things straight. Firstly, even though the UAF might have made a call out for a counter demo, yesterday was most definitely not a UAF event. It was overwhelmingly composed of young british muslim men who had come to defend their community from fascists. with or without the UAF call out, the boys would have been there. the energy belonged to these boys and they are what made the fash too scared to attend their own shit ass demo. if it was just UAF/SWP and the lollipop brigade, the fascists would have been there.

secondly. where he fuck were london antifa??!!!!! they are supposed to be the face of militant anti-fascism in this country. all their rhetoric about confronting fascists wherever they show their faces was shown to be bullshit. with the fash trying to go back to the days of the 70's and 80's street confrontation antifa was nowhere to be seen. fascists are making moves to try and own the streets and whip up tensions. antifa are shit. all talk no action. a little bit of graffitti, getting pissed down the pub and shitty benefits in ramparts does not make you an antifascist force. yesterday was fascists trying to do a cable street style confrontation, but left and anarchist opposition was abissmal. sort yourselves out.

@ntifascisct

One group of fascists vs another?

12.09.2009 14:30

"Anti fascists? Don't make me laugh, all religions are fascist in nature"

"since when was it a case of buddying up with one group of fascists over another?"

Um since the battle of cable street? Or was that wrong too, a case of the silly left buddying up with a group of fascist jews?

Really?

London Antifa

12.09.2009 15:41

Yes we were there. What do you want us to do, wear clothing with a logo on just so you can identify us, carry banners when there is no real point? We are not interested in recruiting in the way other groups are and ,considering the local turn out, were more than happy to join in the fun rather than feel any need to announce our presence and proselytize
Antifa suffers under conditions that would make most people give up and look for an easy life: constant harrasment and massive levels of surveillance. It's easy to make comments from the safety of the internet. Feel free to come to the next "shitty" gig and speak to one of the lads/lasses on the door.

Antifa

Same shit differerent excuse

12.09.2009 16:48

Islam IS fascism - there is no way on Earth I would fight its corner.
ps - I am no troll.

Bob the Builder

antifa no show

12.09.2009 18:29

bullshit london antifa were there. i know you guys, masked up or otherwise, and i know you weren't there. it doesn't take a genius to spot you.

@ntifascist

Do not get carried away!

12.09.2009 21:19

The UAF/SWP predicatbly will embrace the opposition in the same way they embrace anyone, no matter how reactionary, into their midst. Do you honestly think that real antifascists will get support from the Tories, Labour, the Islamists!

I agree that the EDL have always sort to stir up the kind of scenes that we saw in Harrow. THIS IS EXACTLY THEIR STRATEGY! They are a very small group, they have yet been able to mobilise suffecient numbers it seems for anything apart from a piss-up.

The authoritarian left that have played a role in the repression of antifascists in the past are the ones running the likes of UAF. The Islamists remain a potent problem, the english nationalists also are a problem. Do you not see that until their is a visible and vocal opposition to both of these reactionary bigotted bullshitters, the large swathes of the population will continue to divide itself on these lines.

Asians againsts Islam, English against Nationalism, Class against Class. This is anarchist politics, not the ambulance chasing shite of the left for this and that cause.

And one note, members of Antifa WERE there. Don't have a go at Antifa who have faced some serious level of repression by the state, something by your comments show you know nothing about them at all.

Anarchist Antifascists

don't have a go at antifa?

13.09.2009 12:46

"Don't have a go at Antifa who have faced some serious level of repression by the state, something by your comments show you know nothing about them at all"

don't have a go because they are facing repression? why not. critisisms still stand true, whatever the response from the state. so a few members are facing fucked up charges and raids etc etc. that is the way the state operates.

i don't see all the racist anarchists not having a go at the bristish muslim communities who have faced very serious repression. torture, arbitary mass arrests, demonisation, control orders... the list goes on.

learn from your mistakes. change the way you operate. but don't expect no critisism just because you're getting arrested and fucked.

"members of Antifa WERE there" ok. if you say so. i'll have to take your word on that one. nice one for turning up. but its always a shame when i see the UAF turning up in larger numbers than our own, for whatever reason.

anon

You wot?

14.09.2009 10:13

"i don't see all the racist anarchists not having a go at the bristish muslim communities"

Racists anarchists? What the fuck. And what do you suggest anarchists do? Anarchists are a very small organised movement in London. We don't jump on any political bandwagon like the UAF do, or water down our politics. And I like to remind you the number of anarchists that have gone to Gaza and West Bank over the last 7 years and have worked with muslims - from education, independent media projects, to medical aid, reconstruction and human rights monitoring. And that is just from London, let alone groups from Israel like Anarchists against the Wall.

a