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World War Two: Good war or imperialist slaughter?

Beltov | 08.09.2009 19:45 | Anti-militarism | Terror War | Workers' Movements | Birmingham

The Second World War, was supposed to be a ‘good war’, perhaps the only ‘good war’ of the last hundred years. This has been used again and again to justify the present social order. This idea of the ‘good war’ serves to reinforce the idea that, when it comes down to it, we must all rally together to defend democracy when it is threatened by something ‘much worse’...

The Second World War, was supposed to be a ‘good war’, perhaps the only ‘good war’ of the last hundred years. This has been used again and again to justify the present social order. This idea of the ‘good war’ serves to reinforce the idea that, when it comes down to it, we must all rally together to defend democracy when it is threatened by something ‘much worse’. It is the ultimate justification for the idea that there can be a convergence of interests between the working class and the capitalist class: because, faced with something as evil as Nazism, the class struggle can only sabotage national unity.

Even people who claim to be opponents of capitalism, like the Trotskyists, and even many anarchists, are on the same ground as the open admirers of Churchill, De Gaulle, Roosevelt and Stalin. And yet, there is a different tradition, which insists that, just like the First World War, the Second World War was an imperialist war, for global conquest between capitalist states. That, faced with such a war, the position of the working class was no different than that of Lenin, Luxemburg and other internationalists in 1914: against both imperialist camps, for class struggle, mutiny and revolution. This is the tradition defended in 1939-45 by the communist left against persecution and slander by fascists, Stalinists and democrats alike.

The ICC, which comes from that tradition, is holding meetings to discuss the Second World War and what real internationalism meant then and now. We invite you to come and discuss – whether you agree or disagree, you are equally welcome.

e-mail: uk at internationalism.org

Beltov
- e-mail: uk@internationalism.org
- Homepage: http://www.internationalism.org

Comments

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Just

09.09.2009 11:07

The 'good war' was the fight against fascism that imperial Great Britain failed to fight in Germany in 1933 and in Spain in 1936. The British Empire left the anarchists, socialists and communists to fight those fights, bringing the catastophe of the 1939-1945 war on themselves and everyone else.

That is not to demean the sacrifices made against fascism by individuals in that period, but the governments deserve no credit and a lot of blame.

Danny


Dates? Places?

09.09.2009 18:32

Where and when are these meetings taking place?

Hello


Not quite true

10.09.2009 15:20

That's not quite true. Since the collapse of the Soviet Union evidence has emerged that casts the period in a new light and shows that Stalin deliberately triggered the war because he believed it would benefit the USSR and communism.

In 1939 Stalin faced the choice of either allying the USSR with Britain and France against Germany, which in his opinion would avoid the immediate threat of war, or allying with Germany, which he correctly predicted would almost immediately trigger war between Germany and Britain and France.

He chose the latter because he believed that the war would be long and ruinous for both sides, Germany, Britain and France and that it would hasten the downfall of capitalism and herald the triumph of Soviet-style communism.

Hence when the war started the USSR and communist parties proclaimed that the war was an inter-imperialist war that workers shouldn't support either side (much to the confusion of many who had been following the previous 'anti-fascist' line). The Soviet press smugly printed stories showing how while the Soviet Union had secured peace for itself, Britain was facing war.

Stalin seemed concerned that the Allies might defeat Nazi Germany too rapidly and so to help avoid this planned to supply Germany with raw materials.

Of course rather than a drawn-out war like the First World War that Stalin had hoped for, Germany very rapidly overran Belgium, the Netherlands and France and then turned on the USSR. Then the communist parties dropped the 'inter-imperialist war' line and went back to the 'anti-fascist' line.



Ben


ye gods

10.09.2009 21:42

"The 'good war' was the fight against fascism that imperial Great Britain failed to fight in Germany in 1933 and in Spain in 1936. The British Empire left the anarchists, socialists and communists to fight those fights, bringing the catastophe of the 1939-1945 war on themselves and everyone else"

Germany in '33 was under the heel of the runious and punitive reperations set by the allies after ww1, these led to the over production of high grade German steel and coal and to the utter failier of the UK industries at that time (why buy expensive rubbish?) and the standing government was scaleing back the UKs military (at that time the largest part of the Uk military was the Indian forces under the pay and direction of the Indian Civil service not the Uk war office). Germany was delibertly keeping her growing strength hiden and only when the Spanish civil war was "assisted" by the Condor Legion did the UK at last start to see the prospect of a serious threat from Germany but instead of upgrading the Uks home defence they allowed the politicians to try negociating with the then chancellor Hitler.

That went well.

Spanish left wing forces failed to win much ground as they were untrained, ill disiplined and, according to writters and participants, spent more time discussing Marx and communism than tactics and training, the results were a forgon conclusion.

As histories go, it is a fantastic argument in favour of a well trained and equiped military rather that the opposite.

As for the morals of a war, is there ever a "good war", no soldier will say there is as it's them who have to be first to go. In the 20/20 hindsite so favoured of today, I thing a visit to Aushvitz or the warsaw ghetto area is a fairly good reason.


I wonder if any one will get to read this, will get to this bit.
I have not linked to things and quotes because if your interested then you can do it yourself.

anon through right