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Report from Last Week's Meeting Between Police and the Camp for Climate Action

Perleece Leeyayzon | 24.08.2009 09:36 | G20 London Summit | Climate Chaos | Policing | Repression

Last Thursday, the Camp for Climate Action Police Liaison Team spoke at a "briefing afternoon", at the Metropolitan Police's Training Centre in Gravesend. Why did they do this, and what on Earth could they possibly say to the police? Simon Stanley was at the scene...

Let's be frank. It's a weird task to take on. One day you're doing your best to avoid the cops as you try to invade a power station / airport / corporate HQ. The next day, you choose to sit down in a room full of police. Why?

This isn't just an idle question – many people within the climate movement have suffered terrible treatment at the hands of the police, and are understandably concerned about meetings between cops and Campers. Meanwhile, the recent rapid pace of events has made it hard to keep track of what meetings are going on with the police, and why. This article is an attempt to clear things up a bit, to explain why last week's meeting happened, and what we think it achieved.

The main part of the Police Liaison Team's remit is to gather information first-hand about likely police tactics, strategy, personnel and attitude. However, the group has another important role as well: to give the Camp credibility in the eyes of the public.

Those of us who've had a lot of dealings with the police know how little we can trust them, but many of the public haven't had that experience. If we refuse to talk to the police, then a lot of people will (rightly or wrongly) think we're being unreasonable and so be less likely to get involved with the Camp.

Meeting with the cops also gives the Climate Camp a "human face" and might make some officers be a tiny bit less brutal towards us (we have no definite proof of this, though). And of course, each meeting brings us one step closer to the day when the underpaid officers at the Camp gates suddenly decide to lay down their truncheons, take off their riot gear, stick two fingers up at Gold Command and join us in building a beautiful eco-anarchist utopia. Possibly.

The Police Liaison volunteers aren't "representatives" of the Camp – they don't negotiate with the police, make any concessions to them, or give them any information that they wouldn't have found out anyway. In previous years, this has been a slightly frustrating, often uncomfortable, but nonetheless important job.

This year, however, things have gone a bit weird.

Thanks to the police getting caught in the act at the G20 protests, and the serious of vaguely critical official reports that followed, there has been unprecedented media interest in any meetings between the Camp and the police. The cops are on the back foot and are desperately trying to repair their image, and so rather than fobbing us off until the last minute, they are falling over themselves to drag us into meetings. It's pretty bizarre stuff – and it's not without its dangers.

From their quotes in this recent Guardian article [ http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/aug/18/met-police-climate-camp-twitter], it seems the cops are keen to say "look, we're even having meetings with the protesters, aren't we nice!". There's a real risk that by agreeing to these meetings, we might be unintentionally helping out the police with their propaganda – which is why we worked together with the Camp's media team on an Open Letter To The Met [ http://climatecamp.org.uk/blog/2009/08/20/open-letter-to-the-met] to make the Camp's position VERY clear. While in the short term the idea that the police are going to be all cuddly this time round may help to get more people to the London Camp, in the long term it could be very dangerous. If the public and the media decide the police have mended their ways, then their interest will soon wander, leaving the cops free to get the batons out again.

Meanwhile, we aren't the only ones being harassed by the police. That's why the Camp's Legal Team have been building connections with other activist groups including Fitwatch and London Defence and Monitoring, as well as organisations representing migrant communities, the Campaign Against Criminalising Communities, the Muslim prisoner support group and the Newham Monitoring Project. Plans are afoot to get funding for a new umbrella group to keep monitoring the police and holding them to account – wherever and whenever they might operate.

Let's not forget: the police's job is to enforce laws which defend the status quo, protect the wealthy and the powerful, and stand in the way of social change. This has been their role throughout history, and not just within the UK. Meanwhile, we're trying to build a movement to create massive social change by directly confronting the Government and wealthy, powerful, polluting corporations. This doesn't make it very likely that the police are ever going to be our friends.

However, one thing that CAN change is the tactics available to the cops – the exact level of violence and intimidation that they're allowed to get away with. It would be lovely to believe that we might influence this just by having meetings with the police. Sadly, experience shows that the only thing that really works is forcing them to change by exposing their tactics to the world. It's annoying that we have to do this – we'd much rather spend the time on climate action – but if we don't, then things will only get worse.

We'd like to reassure the rest of the climate movement that the Police Liaison team fully understand all of this, and that we are also actively challenging attempts by the police (and the media) to separate our movement into “good” and “bad” protesters. We've done our best to explain this at Gatherings and on email lists, and we're sorry if it hasn't been totally clear! If you have any concerns or suggestions about the work we're doing, please get in touch with us – or better yet, come and join the Police Liaison team and get involved yourself.

So it was with all this in mind that I stood up in front of a crowd of seventy police officers on Thursday afternoon, and explained to them why the Climate Camp was happening, how non-hierarchical decision-making worked, and what this year's Camp will probably look like. I then described what it was like to be charged by a line of riot cops for no discernible reason, to watch your friends being beaten over the head and arrested on meaningless charges, to see people in front of you being pepper-sprayed in the face, and to know you have to stand your ground anyway with your hands in the air because the alternative is to let a beautiful Camp be trampled under their steel-toecapped boots. They listened, in silence. It was one of the weirdest things I've ever done in my life. Whether or not it will make any difference, I really couldn't say; but it felt oddly liberating all the same.

Next, we got to hear the police's pre-Camp strategy briefings first-hand. Then they took us on a tour of the place where they train riot police, a kind of “Riotland” theme park with a life-sized fake Council estate, tube station and sports stadium...but no, that was far too strange to have really happened. It must have been a bizarre dream.

Perleece Leeyayzon

Comments

Hide the following 29 comments

Talking with the filth Mmmmm

24.08.2009 10:14


Talking with the filth Mmmm. I know that this was a tuff call, still, Mmmm
The `climate movement` have possibly just managed to put a wedge between the resistance movement which is far bigger than some over privileged photogenic oxbridge twat any day of the week. While I`m on that subject maybe should get her to ask Grand-mama to give the fucking land back.
When Reclaim the Streets was in action we TOLD the fith.

Love and Bullets

Power to the People

AN OLD HAT


Under paid Officers

24.08.2009 10:36


What load of tosh, I can`t believe you middle/upper class dreamers could fall for this:

And of course, each meeting brings us one step closer to the day when the underpaid officers at the Camp gates suddenly decide to lay down their truncheons, take off their riot gear, stick two fingers up at Gold Command and join us in building a beautiful eco-anarchist utopia. Possibly.

From where I am the biggest gang in this country are over paid. WAKE UP

Middle Class realist


dont discuss

24.08.2009 10:40

tell the cunts where we are going and fucking go there

ballz


getting beyond the ghetto

24.08.2009 10:53

jeezes, some groups actually screw their heads on properly and try and make it look like we're not just a bunch of raving loonies, and the usual types have a go at them? so what if they talk to the police, the kingsnorth camp had NO police for a week, way better then Reclaim the Streets ever did. they're not being told by the police, they're just trying to make sure that the press dont rip them to shreds next week

anarchistfreak


Thanks for the info

24.08.2009 10:54

Speaking as one of the people who was pepper sprayed at Kingsnorth, beaten on two separate days, imprisoned, and then had a prosecution for a violent offence (yes, the usual irony) carried on against me until it was dropped in February I would like very much to thank the original poster for this information. If nothing else it will clarify a debate in which I have heard some pretty vague/ill-informed sentiments.

*If* Police Liaison has to be done (which I agree is a tough call), then it is a disgusting, squalid job, and I would rather change a thousand piss bales from the compost toilets than do it myself. So I salute the indefatigability of those who have taken it on.

But may I also disagree with the original poster on one thing? The rank and file plod are definitely NOT underpaid. Let's be clear, that a *newly qualified* PC is paid the same as a school teacher after a degree, PGCE, and two years in the class room (6 years in all), or about 50% more than a comparably skilled and experienced infantry soldier. This money above the market rate for their skills represents a political bribe which means they will *never* change sides.

Squatticus


well, they don't negotiate

24.08.2009 10:55

good to know that the liaison doesn't negotiate. so ballz they don't even tell the police where we go, *and* we just go there.

anarchobob


Nothing wrong with talking...

24.08.2009 11:40

As long as the people doing the talking are experts at speaking without saying anything, if you know what I mean. I know a few activists that chat to cops on demos but never tell them anything at all. I think it's a good thing for media consumption so do go and sit in a meeting with the police, listen to what they have to say and have a look at there training ground. Play along like they are.

However I was worried when you said about explaining to them “how non-hierarchical decision-making worked” as this just gives them a better understanding of the camp, for example. Speak but say nothing.

ARA


Er...

24.08.2009 12:48

Just to clarify, this bit was meant to be tongue-in-cheek:

"And of course, each meeting brings us one step closer to the day when the underpaid officers at the Camp gates suddenly decide to lay down their truncheons, take off their riot gear, stick two fingers up at Gold Command and join us in building a beautiful eco-anarchist utopia. Possibly."

Apologies if our attempt at humour has added to the confusion...!

See you on the frontlines,

Xx

Perleece Leeyayzon


Been here before

24.08.2009 12:49

Dear climate camp friends,

over a decade ago I was part of a group of road-protestors who agreed to meet and talk with police in the run up to work starting on the Newbury bypass. This was in the wake of some very brutal evictions at other road camps and some bad publicity as a result.

All the discussions went pretty much as you described - then, days before work started they cancelled a meeting and there were no more meetings. And the policing went back to normal - despite the fact that we were as much in the public eye then as you are now and at the time had hundreds of people turning up to take part in protests.

Maybe it won't happen to you - but never forget what they can do and how they will justify it to themselves and the world at large.

Love and rage.

Mrs Perkins


PR Interns for the Met

24.08.2009 14:02

I can't believe you wasted time on this. Yes, the open letter says good things, but who ever saw it? Whereas the police get the front page of the guardian about how they're being so nice now they're talking to you. Well done on handing them a propaganda victory, giving them kudos without them having to do anything. Why do root and branch reform when you can get the same credibility by buttering up the lefty press with reports of your meeting protesters?

I was unfortunate enough to be around the police liaison people at the Heathrow Camp. They were given loads of promises that were broken, deliberately led a total merry dance and got really fucking fried, while on the ground the cops did what they were always going to do anyway.

The current mood of the country is very suspicious of the police. Their desperate need to appear soft means they are highly likely to lay off the Camp this time. The sooner they can smarten up their image, the sooner they can go back to breaking heads. You just accelerated that.

Ian Kilminster


Wake up

24.08.2009 14:03

'Then they took us on a tour of the place where they train riot police, a kind of “Riotland” theme park with a life-sized fake Council estate, tube station and sports stadium...but no, that was far too strange to have really happened. It must have been a bizarre dream.'

Why do you think that this is particularly strange? Radical political change will mean taking on the cops at some point. They might be happy to have a cosy chat at their riot gaff but they sure as hell know where they stand at the end of the day be they clued up about consensual, non-heirarchical decision making or what. Where they stand is being paid to follow orders and fuck with you if they want.

All this guff about public image and friendlyness is rubbish. You assume most people love the police but that's a classic wooly liberal idea. When things kick off you might be suprised at the level of support you have against the cops. That's not to make a fetish of fighting the cops but a lot of people's experiences at the hands of the cops is of being fucked over for the smallest of things.

Some people who come to climate camp want to fightback against the police if the cops attack again. Fair enough, climate camp is for all who desire change in the world.

If cops attack me I don't want to stand around saying 'this is not a riot', I want to defend myself (alongside others!) and stand up to their shit.

It seems if people slag climate camp off for having a relationship with the cops, it's as if they are some sort of loonies or extremists and not people who have just had enough of the cops time and time again.

Dwayne


@ Dwayne

24.08.2009 14:27

I don't think it is harmful to meet with the cops, to refuse to do so gives an impression of wanting trouble among the public. All I would say is they should meet the cops, listen and go.
No discussions or the like.

If cops kick off then they will look even worse seeing as how they have been in the media saying how friendly they are now with us.

ARA


Say 'No comment', always

24.08.2009 15:08

'Dialogue is a trap' - that's a slogan from May '68 in France and rings true today! What it means is that we do politics but we never break out of playing a game where the board, counters and rules have been established by power. Dialoguie is always about reinforcing the roles we play such as the being the subject of the state or the worker who negotiates with their boss or the pacifed dreamer who talks to the cops

I don't care about 'media consumption' or 'public image' because I don't care to be represented in the media.

. What I care about is what we do on the day collectively that takes things forward. I don't want that representations about that activity to be made by liberals who rub themselves up against power for whatever perverse reasons, by 'good cop - bad cop' police chiefs, by Guardian eco-friendly journalists, by anarchists who have only one refrain - 'riot, riot, riot' or by anyone else other than the genuine and radical actions of the camp itself in the moment.

When the cops ask you a question, you say 'No comment'.


'It’s painful to submit to our bosses; it’s even more stupid to choose them'

Graffiti - Paris, May 68

A


Thanks for the feedback

24.08.2009 15:10

Thanks for all the comments above - some pretty constructive and useful stuff in there. We know we need to be incredibly careful, to not trust the police and to not tell them a thing, but the more reminders of that we get, the better.

If the policing at this year's Camp is less outrageous, it will be because the cops have been forced to back off (even if only temporarily) because of media and public outrage, when their violence was exposed at the G20. The only way we are ever going to get a reduction of police powers and violence is to continue to expose them and build up public disgust at their behaviour.

But that means that it matters what the public think of activists too - if they don't trust us, then they won't join us or support us, or believe what we say about police violence. Public perception affects all of our safety, and the safety of our friends and fellow activists. If the Camp refused to meet with the police, in the current glare of the media spotlight, that could help the police even more - they'd just put out a press release about how they offered to talk to the Camp and the Camp refused. The Met would still be on the front cover of the Guardian getting their propaganda across, and we'd look like the unreasonable ones. Totally unfair, but that's the media for you. The best option seemed to be: meet them, play the game a bit, don't tell them anything, and make the best of a tough situation.

Normally, this stuff wouldn't be such a big deal, but right now we're in an unusual situation where there's major public and media interest in the policing of protest so we're being forced into some situations we wouldn't normally choose to be in. It's very unlikely to happen again.

Talking to the police isn't a fun job. It has risks, and we don't always get it right. It's also a job that no-one wants to do for long (I've pretty much reached my own limit). But it's part of the ongoing battle to build up public support for front-line activism and bring more people into the movement. That's why Police Liaison has the remit that it does, as agreed by consensus at Climate Camp gatherings.

Also, totally agree with the point that it isn't just activists who get attacked and harassed by the police - that's why we need to build links with other communities who suffer far more of this stuff than we do.

Reluctant Liaison Person


about the open letter

24.08.2009 15:24

"Yes, the open letter says good things, but who ever saw it?"

actualy if you're measuring media coverage it got quite a bit:

Climate demo police 'not trusted'
 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8213644.stm

Climate camp protesters refuse to tell 'violent' police of next site
 http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23735218-details/Climate+camp+protesters+refuse+to+tell+'violent'+police+of+next+site/article.do

'The best thing the police could do is stay away'
 http://www.politics.co.uk/feature/policing-and-crime/-the-best-thing-the-police-could-do-is-stay-away--$1320182.htm

etc

and let's face it, a lot of the "MET charm offensive" articles were angled in terms of after the brutality of the g20...

anyways, good luck to those out on the streets on wednesday!

pete


Fuck the police and fuck the media.....

24.08.2009 15:45

I don't understand why you feel you have to play to their tune. The media will write lies and garbage, ie they will write whatever big Ed wants to write no matter the situation. Likewise the filth will smash heads (as they have done forever) and do whatever they want and no one will effect that and do you think they give a fuck about what the media may or may not print, after a day it will all be forgotten and on to the next story and as for the public why do you assume they care what heads the filth smash (even if they are middle class fluffy liberal heads) .... Wake up and smell the naievity and hypocricy being played around you...

@narchist


an alternative suggestion

24.08.2009 16:57

How about *refusing* to meet with the police, and then writing an open letter to the media explaining why?

We need to make it crystal clear to as many people as possible that the role of the police is to defend the rich and powerful. Sure, many people don't realise that, but by playing along with the police you *perpetuate* people's illusions, when we should be explaining and educating people.

I the police liaison folks are working hard at a difficult job, and none of this is intended as personal criticism of them, but for too long the Camp has let media concerns take priority. It's a slippery slope.

climate camper


Climate Camp and Coppers Caption Competition

24.08.2009 17:42

Climate Camp and Coppers Caption Competition
Climate Camp and Coppers Caption Competition

Climate Camp and Coppers Caption Competition for all to pass the time 'til Wednesday's swoop

A


ACAB

24.08.2009 17:43

"Let's be frank. It's a weird task to take on. One day you're doing your best to avoid the cops as you try to invade a power station / airport / corporate HQ. The next day, you choose to sit down in a room full of police. Why?"

Hypocrisy is always a weird task to take on, doesn't make anyone warm towards your cause either.

"The main part of the Police Liaison Team's remit is to gather information first-hand about likely police tactics, strategy, personnel and attitude."

If so, then why not organise a Climate Camp police tactics briefing session. Get briefed about the tactics and say nothing in return, if that's the primary objective.

"However, the group has another important role as well: to give the Camp credibility in the eyes of the public."

This is not true. The camp are not looking not for credibility in the eyes of the public, but in the eyes of the corrupt media. By doing this you are continuing to feed the mainstream media with power, instead of encouraging grassroots media to thrive (such as IMC).

"Those of us who've had a lot of dealings with the police know how little we can trust them, but many of the public haven't had that experience."

It's not how little we can trust them, it's how we can't trust them at all. Many of the public don't know that you can't trust cops. If you stopped accepting dialogue with them then it'd help to get the point across, instead of constantly making it seem like they *sometimes* can be trusted - and maybe this will be their lucky week.

"If we refuse to talk to the police, then a lot of people will (rightly or wrongly) think we're being unreasonable and so be less likely to get involved with the Camp."

Infact: If we refuse to talk to the police, then a lot of people will (rightly or wrongly) think the police are being unreasonable and so be less likely to get involved with the Camp. Bringing people to the camp who think police won't baton charge them is bringing them to the camp under false pretensions. Deception is not healthy for any social movement.

"Meeting with the cops also gives the Climate Camp a "human face" and might make some officers be a tiny bit less brutal towards us (we have no definite proof of this, though)."

Because the police think another species runs the camp, or that machines are in fact creating it? If any cops think this they're in dangerous need of education, so their brutality won't change by a brief and simple lecture. Better put: you have no proof of this. It's clear they baton charge knowing full well that we are human animals, but think it is right and justified to do so, no questions about it. PS - The only way they're going to lay down their truncheons and take off riot gear is when its taken from their beaten bodies.

"There's a real risk that by agreeing to these meetings, we might be unintentionally helping out the police with their propaganda..." - Congratulations for finally working this one out.

"If the public and the media decide the police have mended their ways, then their interest will soon wander, leaving the cops free to get the batons out again." - With less people believing there's a need to confront corruption, power structures and the *lovely* police state. Great.

"It would be lovely to believe that we might influence this [police violence] just by having meetings with the police." - So why both having meetings with them then! You said it yourself; "experience shows that the only thing that really works is forcing them to change by exposing their tactics to the world".

"...we are also actively challenging attempts by the police (and the media) to separate our movement into “good” and “bad” protesters." - A practical step then would to not be the "good protesters" by communicating with the police, instead becoming "bad protesters" who never do.

"Whether or not it will make any difference, I really couldn't say; but it felt oddly liberating all the same." - In the same way victims of violent abuse tell their victimisers about their suffering and they respond with nothing, no apology? Strange form of liberation you feel there.

"Next, we got to hear the police's pre-Camp strategy briefings first-hand. Then they took us on a tour of the place where they train riot police, a kind of “Riotland” theme park..."

They gave you a tour of a riot police training ground and you still don't think they're going to baton charge you? Please get a grip here on reality!

veg@n


"Losing the moral highground"

24.08.2009 18:42

Generally I think we stand up to the police pretty well - we didn't tolerate them on site at Kingsnorth or Heathrow. But I'm fed up of feeling judged for wanting to defend myself against the police when I'm there.

Chanting "this is not a riot" with your hands up might have kept the camp there for a few hours longer, or maybe we could have actually driven them off and stopped ourselves being kettled at the G20. Linking arms and refusing to be moved, or pushing past the police isn't going to hurt them when they're heavily armed.

Kia


FITwatch

24.08.2009 20:23

Good to see a callout for FITwatch on the climate camp email list tho

Kia


Caption Competition

24.08.2009 21:22

'The Whole World is Watching'

as chanted by the crowd during as the Police Rioted at the 1968 US Democratic Party Convention.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Democratic_National_Convention

memoryman


The whole world is watching you get beat

24.08.2009 21:49

The whole world wasn't watching though as the whole world was mostly tv free as it still is. Of the remaining minority, of which some of them probably were watching, they were able to view people getting there heads staved in by Chicago's finest in action. Despite this minority viewing, it in no way forced the police to desist from stamping on people's heads, breaking their hands and arms with nightsticks or arresting many for another beating in the cells.

Point being that endless footage of cops bashing people's heads can be viewed these days online which proves the point that tv and media coverage does not prevent this from happening. Similarly assurances from the police about community-style policing doesn't mean much either.

Even if the whole world was watching it would be powerless to do anything unless it stopped watching and left the front room.

Bore


i dunno - it's quite depressing really.

25.08.2009 01:33

lots of people who do free parties and who often end up in situations where there are clashes with police know that sometimes it's quite sensible to have someone appointed to talk to plod when they turn up. sometimes it helps, sometimes it doesn't. but it's worth it for the times it does help.

likewise all sorts of direct actions have had people that take on a role of police liaison in this country and others - though often the sort of actions where people will end up in effect "at the mercy" of the police because they will be locking onto things or blockading and refusing to move.

it's a bit like personal relationships or work relationships - there's people i really don't like or trust much, but who i have to be in the same place with. sometimes i work to minimise their behaviour that i object to. although to be fair, if someone i knew had been as consistently out of order as the police then I don't think i'd talk to them any more - but then the police are not a single person.

it's all pretty clear to me. some people think it worth talking to individuals, some people want to change a system and some people want to destroy a system. like capitalism perhaps, or racism, or sexism.

talking to people to change the views of individuals is often the best way, but here we're talking about a policing system, with its own culture and political direction from on high.

never underestimate how much a lot of people in society dislike and distrust the police.

but then also never underestimate the dislike for the stereotyped soap dodging unemployed eco-freak anti-capitalist layabout protestor.

also if you come into repeated contact with public order policing you're going to have a pretty negative attitude towards the police (ditto for being not white, ditto for being from the wrong part of town etc etc) - but again never underestimate things like the G20 fallout which really did show a lot of people who were not anti-police that they can be thorough going bastards.

where the failure is... is not in talking to the police, or not in refusing to talk to the police, but it's bickering without any organisational strategy of how to move forward from a whole range of views, realities and experiences around the same issues.

the people working on the climate camp policing stuff have done a pretty exhaustive job of detailing abuses, documenting responsibilites, illegal tactics and so on. some posters here may say it's not their job to do that, but i'm glad someone has been doing it.

i guess we'll see what happens next week in terms of police PR, but a better measure would be how many people attend, what they discuss and learn and whether it moves more people towards putting time and energy into trying to transform society for the better.

I dunno.

spin spin sugar


soap dodging unemployed eco-freak anti-capitalist layabout protestor

25.08.2009 15:37

Something many of the CC legal nd media teams don't seem to be able to understand is that a key part of the stereotype is the protesters refusal to defend themselves and their insistance that pacifism can defeat state violence.

People in the "communities [who] experience [this] on a daily basis" know it won't, and will never respect the privileged few who peddle that myth.

To rephrase something from the original post:

"Those who've had a lot of dealings with the police know how little we should trust them, many of the public have had that experience. If we talk to the police, then a lot of people will (rightly or wrongly) think we're being naive and so be less likely to get involved with the Camp."

ACAB liaison


mayka difrence

25.08.2009 21:17

Never lose sight of the MAIN purpose of the CC movement. It's to get emissions down and save our future. No matter how much we have other aims (most of them good!), it's the MAIN aim that we must try to achieve. And if talking to the police helps create the HUGE public swell and mobilisation that will convince the politicians to listen and act, so be it.

gwyn redgers
mail e-mail: gwyn@redgers.com


Hello. Wake up please

25.08.2009 21:21

What the hell's the point of talking to the police? They're merely the puppets that follow the orders of their political masters.

The police couldn't give a toss about PR or their public image. Its the ones pulling their strings who're concerned about that.

So yes, they'll play nice and sweet when they're told to. And the next instant they'll bash your head in - when they're told to. No matter how many times you (or they) play friendly. No matter how many times you talk to them.

Might just as well talk to a roomful of cardboard cutouts.

And as for appearing good in the eyes of the media? Bloody hell, how many times do we need to learn the same lesson. The mainstream media will slant a story whatever way sells - regardless.

cynic


what the fuck are you doing?

26.08.2009 09:03

you have nothing to gain. everything to lose. climate camp was an autonmous-anti-authoritarian movement. no more it seems. why are you negotiating with the people who attacked you in london in april, traumatised several of your comrades and killed a passer by? you must be off your heads.

westsider


No comment

26.08.2009 09:44

Two TSG plods were at the London neighbourhood CC pre-swoop meeting in Russell Sq last night. Despite saying earlier on that they were just in the park patrolling at random and thought they better see what the crowd was about, it later came out that they were their to monitor what was going, what was said and who was who. So they basically lied right off the bat until they were rumbled by some more clued-up folks.

All they wanted was to suss people out and join the dots between who is doing what. They did this by talking to different people at different times using a variety of strategies such simple 'so do you have a first name?' to a more substantial attempt to get people sussed - 'do you have an opinion of the police?' or 'don't you think the police are just there to facilitate protests?'

It's pure and sometime clever psychology that gets people talking to them. Then they match this up with the photos that were being taking and begin to figure out who likely to be a troublemaker, locker-on, anarchist etc.

The cops are the biggest political gang in town. You don't talk to them. You say no comment. There is no point negotiating or having conversations with them.

When will some people in CC learn that?

CC is supposed to be about non-hierarchical consensus decision making that functions as a glimpse of the kind of future world that is possible. It destroys that vision when it uses the myth of getting good media coverage (a CC obsession) to hold dialogues with cops and politicians. Let's get back to the CC roots and be our own thing and not some thing mediated to slow boring ineffectual death.

CC is supposed to be a radical active movement, and not a pressure group.

HR