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Smoking ban upheld in Rampton

Mad Pride | 24.07.2009 18:29 | Health | Social Struggles

soft cop social health creeping totalitarianism

Patients detained in Rampton special hospital today failed at an appeal court to overturn a ban which prevents them from smoking inside or outside hospital grounds, effectively forcing them to quit the habit.  http://www.thisisnottingham.co.uk/homenews/Rampton-patients-fail-overturn-smoking-ban/article-1194491-detail/article.html

It's a ruling which seems entirely rooted in plain vindictiveness, especially when the overwhelming evidence suggests that smoking helps to alleviate the distressing symptoms of schizophrenia - see  http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=smoking-away-schizophreni and many other scholarly articles.

Not all patients in the three secure special hospitals have passed through the criminal justice system and committed horrific crimes - a substantial proportion have simply become lost in institutional mental health, prey to the bullies who often make up staff members there and at the mercy of power-crazed psychiatrists.

Mad Pride

Comments

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what?!

24.07.2009 21:01

that link to evidence doesn't suggest that at all.

it actually says the short term effects of smoking can help but are then detrimental overall.
they say that maybe 5-10years of research might develop a treatment that can work

jeeeeezzzzzzz..... if you are going to make siomething up, dont post the link

hen

It says nothing of the sort.

24.07.2009 23:16

The link says that the smoking has a positive effect on scizophrenia however that positive effect is reduced as the brain builds a tolerance requiring ever increasing doses. Just like pretty much every other scizophrenia treatment then.

I can understand how you would get confused though because the article is written from a dogmatically anti-smoking perspective just like much of the rest of the drivel that gets passed off as intelligent thought in the world of psychology.

If you are going to try to turn indymedia into a discussion forum please try and read something more infromative then your average NHS leaflet.

Sovereign

More links for hen

24.07.2009 23:35

 http://opa.yale.edu/news/article.aspx?id=3205

 http://news.scotsman.com/tobacco/Smoking-tobacco-may-ease-some.2607019.jp

 http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a769158557~db=all

 http://www.nature.com/npp/journal/v26/n1/abs/1395739a.html

Those of us who have spent time as patients will confirm that cigarettes ease the symptoms of the umbrella condition 'schizophrenia'.

The ruling IMHO is based on sheer vindictiveness and wilful cruelty.

Some of the most viciously cruel and judgemental people I've ever met in my life have worked in the 'caring professions' - particularly social work and psychiatry.

Schizo and Proud

Torturing innocents for no good reason

25.07.2009 11:49

There is an argument that smoking is so damaging that simply because there is a correlation, perhaps causation, between smoking and schizophrenia is no reason not to try to help schizophrenics quit smoking. A smoking cessation program though is not the same as a ban especially when there is some evidence that this is self-medication.

It is a fact though that schizophrenics smoke more and find it harder to quit than others. The smoking ban has exceptions, such as for ordinary prisoners and submariners who can't just 'go outside for a smoke'.

Therefore this decision is abhorrent, a cruel and unusual punishment for the weakest in society and so 'Mad Pride' should be commended for mentioning it here as it should be opposed by all decent people, and 'hen' should be ashamed for their misplaced pedantry.

Danny

oh really

25.07.2009 13:30

I'm absolutely speechless to read that people are encouraging smoking on IndyMedia. Britist American Tobacco and other similar companies have a track record on preying on the vulnerable throughout the world, and here we discussing how providing cigarettes to patients is a good thing!

Lucy

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This posting has been hidden because it breaches the Indymedia UK (IMC UK) Editorial Guidelines.

IMC UK is an interactive site offering inclusive participation. All postings to the open publishing newswire are the responsibility of the individual authors and not of IMC UK. Although IMC UK volunteers attempt to ensure accuracy of the newswire, they take no responsibility legal or otherwise for the contents of the open publishing site. Mention of external web sites or services is for information purposes only and constitutes neither an endorsement nor a recommendation.

Goose-stepping Lucy

25.07.2009 14:07

Yes, really. There is a body of scientific evidence that smoking tobacco is medicinal to the effects of certain mental illness.

Regardless of that, this is the only case where smokers who have no alternative to smoking indoors are legally banned from smoking indoors, and these are the most vunerable and powerless people in society.

Personally, if I was being unfairly tortured like this by a moronic public-school boy judge like Tony Clarke, then upon my release I would use him and his wife Rosemary as human ashtrays. I am almost tempted to provide this bridge-playing muppet of a Lord's home address for those who escape Rampton to follow up on that.

Lucy may be happy sucking the cock of the uneducated Public School elite instead of listening to the scientists and human-rights activists, but that is why the UK is one of the most divided and repressive societies in history.

Danny

Hidden Comment

This posting has been hidden because it breaches the Indymedia UK (IMC UK) Editorial Guidelines.

IMC UK is an interactive site offering inclusive participation. All postings to the open publishing newswire are the responsibility of the individual authors and not of IMC UK. Although IMC UK volunteers attempt to ensure accuracy of the newswire, they take no responsibility legal or otherwise for the contents of the open publishing site. Mention of external web sites or services is for information purposes only and constitutes neither an endorsement nor a recommendation.

danny the big headed twat

25.07.2009 15:02

Lucy may be happy sucking the cock of the uneducated Public School elite

Go and fuck yourself if thats the kind of language you like. Human rights activist? Dickhead more like

Lucy

Hidden Comment

This posting has been hidden because it breaches the Indymedia UK (IMC UK) Editorial Guidelines.

IMC UK is an interactive site offering inclusive participation. All postings to the open publishing newswire are the responsibility of the individual authors and not of IMC UK. Although IMC UK volunteers attempt to ensure accuracy of the newswire, they take no responsibility legal or otherwise for the contents of the open publishing site. Mention of external web sites or services is for information purposes only and constitutes neither an endorsement nor a recommendation.

Goosey Lucy

25.07.2009 15:39

Sure, I'll try to fuck myself if you try to educate yourself, but I suspect both activities are impossible.

Answer me this, why should ordinary prisoners be allowed to smoke while prisoners in Rampton be forbidden to smoke when they obviously need it more?

Danny

Hidden Comment

This posting has been hidden because it breaches the Indymedia UK (IMC UK) Editorial Guidelines.

IMC UK is an interactive site offering inclusive participation. All postings to the open publishing newswire are the responsibility of the individual authors and not of IMC UK. Although IMC UK volunteers attempt to ensure accuracy of the newswire, they take no responsibility legal or otherwise for the contents of the open publishing site. Mention of external web sites or services is for information purposes only and constitutes neither an endorsement nor a recommendation.

What age does an IMCista become an Admin?

26.07.2009 00:04

Seriously, why does Indymedia have to be as sterile as a childrens website? No one was legally impugned. I have no great objection to Lucy telling me to fuck myself, if that is part of her argument. You lose too much rational argument by such Victorian prurience that any other news site would accept.

Apolopies to the under sixteens here, but it is simply physically impossible to fuck yourself, and it is simply inhumane to legally prevent an adult smoker from smoking in their own habitat. Indymedia should stop using underage moderators who can't cope with such profanity, such child-labour by IM is the real obscenity.

Danny

If I was there I wouldn't want to breathe in other people's smoke

26.07.2009 11:44

If I was a patient or worker there I wouldn't want to breathe in other people's smoke.

If they want to smoke outside, then fine, as long as they don't blow it in other people's faces.

Indoors they should respect other people's right to breathe in clean air.

This is nothing to do with their mental state, it is just basic politeness and human decency.

But I assume they aren't allowed alcohol, so why is nicotine different, I wonder? Maybe they should be allowed alcohol. I guess because it makes some people violent and aggressive.

anon

Danny

26.07.2009 19:38

Although i venemonently disagreed with Danny's comments, it saddens me that he has been censored. We can disagree and thats fine as I'm sure he will agree, but it is intolerant of Indymedia to become a nanny state and censor people's comments.

I'm sorry Danny that you are not allowed to get your points across.

Lucy

Ta Lucy

26.07.2009 21:34

To address the poster before you, the fact is the patients were asking for smoking rooms, not to inflict their smoke on others. Even if you believe in secondary smoking risks, and I don't, that isn't the issue here. A properly ventilated smoking room is of no risk to anyone except the smokers themselves. Everyone should have the right to smoke, even if it is damaging to their own health, as long as they are not damaging someone elses health. These aren't people who can just step outside, and if exceptions are made for prisoners and submariners, neither of whom feel as strong a need to smoke, then it is more important to exempt Rampton prisoners who have evidence that they are more strongly addicted if not actually self-medicating.

These are double-standards and for the Judge to compare this to allowing alcohol inside is idiotic of him.

Danny

also at anon

27.07.2009 09:58

This idiot judge seriously used that argument in his judgement, that because alcohol is banned at Rampton then cigarettes should also be banned. As both a smoker and a drinker, after 30 units of alcohol, my behaviour does sometimes become more irresponsible or difficult to manage, whereas after 30 cigarettes I simply beome wheezy. Not the same thing.

There is evidence that smoking helps these patients. That could be used to argue that they should be provided free, prescription cigarettes, or contrarily it could be used as an argument that they deserve extra help in smoking-cessation programs. It is certainly not rational or reasonable or humane to simply ban them from smoking.

No matter how much of a rabid anti-smoker you are, this is a civil liberties and a medicinal issue and this judge has displayed a deep ignorance of these issues.

The reason the judge feels able to ban smoking at Rampton while any other prisoner can smoke is simply a matter of control - the patients at Rampton are effectively powerless whereas a similar ban for all prisoners would result in uncontrollable nationwide prison riots within a day or two.

Therefore it is important that people on the outside like us speak up for the rights of the most powerless in society.

Danny

Schizophrenia

28.07.2009 10:40

All this talk about schizophrenia when there is no such thing. Don't misunderstand this is not to deny people's experience. There are no tests for schizophrenia it is simply a number of symptoms that have been given a label. This is not helpful when these symptoms could also be 'manic depression', 'personality disorder' or one of many other diagnosis. Psychiatry has almost no science in it and should not be seen as a branch of medicine. When they do studies on 'schizophrenia' they end up simply measuring the effects of brain damaging neuroleptic drugs.

Sven

Concerned Observer

21.08.2009 13:00

I hope that the case will continue to progress upwards into the European courts. I have recently began reading UK Indymedia and seen many informative articles and commentaries. However, as I read the comments on the Rampton smoking case. People seem to be missing the point that this case is concerned with an abuse of rights. It is not about whether people should be smoking or not. Or even if Tabacco is effective self medication. The abuse of rights regards the fact that the smoking patients are not doing anything which the Government isn't drawing revenue.

The original smoking ban didn't cover mental health units, prisons or hotel bedrooms yet I note that the ban is coming to extend to all these places by stealth.

Tim Blades

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