The British/western press have, as far as I can see it, been supportive of the opposition and have never been in favour of Ahmo...Aram...afterdinnerjazz (sorry havent slept).

But their output is only being seen in the west, in Iran the population are getting the state version only (what a supprise) and He's starting the same rhetoric that Mugabe did, "its all the wests fault they started all these rumours etc....".
Political speaches in this country will do next to nothing, as the people wont hear it and the gov of Iran don't care. The legitemate opposition need to know that they have support and that the world is watching (amnisty are you listening?).

The UK lost most if not all it's influence after the revoloution, afterdinnerjazz dosn't give a damb about western reactions, the only time when hes listened was when the US started talking about regime change (Iraq style), as he knows he would loose power, but he also knows that the western powers are streched too thin to go after him so hes played the "democratic elections" card.

For another view see this article on US indymedia
 http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2009/06/14/18601708.php

As I have commented on another thread ( http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2009/06/432118.html?c=on#c225926) the most relevant thing about a person's support for the opposition is their motivation. I am not at all a fan of the regime, nor an apologist for Ahmejinedad. But support for the opposition *might* indicate support for CIA trouble-making, or even preparing the ground for an invasion designed to discourage economic nationalism and to gain access to Iranian oil.

Your suggestion that a particular government should not recognise the result rather requires the government in question to respect democracy at all times, not just when it suits them. Witness then, the acquiescence of the British Government regarding the views of the Palestinian people, or the US establishment "not recognising" leftist governments opposed to neo-conservatism.

Therefore could I trouble you, Nima, to condemn any subversive American interference in Iranian politics? I agree that if you are a stooge then you will tell me anything I want to hear, but at least it brings this issue out into the light where it can be discussed.

Mousavi's support base is the new bourgeoisie - the middle classes. Whilst they are visible in rich North Tehran where all the posh hotels reporters stay at are and whilst they can all speak english making them ideal for interviews, and whilst they all have blogs and facebooks for lazy reporters to quote, they do not however represent the masses. Ahmadinejads base is the poor, especially the rural poor whom he has helped so much in his 4 years. The poor outnumber the rich, this election was not a fix, Mousavi never stood a chance. Its another case of western media falling for its own manufactured hype whilst ignoring the reality. Ahmadinejad in the 90min post-election foreign press question-answer session shown on presstv hinted at it by recalling the persian story of someone at a market place playing a prank on a bystander saying to him that they are giving free food at the other end of the market. A few minutes later he saw people rushing past him so he asked someone whats going on. The reply came 'havent you heard there is free soup being given out!". The person who started the rumour himself then has doubts and starts thinking they cant all be wrong maybe there is free soup and rushes to the other side of the market looking for the non-existent soup, falling for his own manufactured lie!

Virtually no-one believes the result of this election. That Ahmedinejad could win Kurdistan or Azerbaijan provinces is nonsensical. It's like Henley on Thames going for RESPECT in a landslide. He may have presented himself, with a certain degree of success, as the advocate of the rural poor, but actually, rather like his American right wing counterparts, he provides lashings of social conservatism whilst not helping their economic circumstances one iota. You might also notice how the US right wing are all for Ahmedinejad winning, it feeds into their disgusting fantasies of more and more war.

I personally don't think the UK or US governments can or should do much - they are morally bereft. However I do think individuals and groups can show solidarity, and when people are being beaten and killed in the streets for exercising their right to dissent and protest against a populist bigot who almost undoubtedly staged a coup I think it's shameful not to.

From Robert Fisk article:

 http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-iran-erupts-as-voters-back-the-democrator-1704810.html


An interval here for lunch with a true and faithful friend of the Islamic Republic, a man I have known for many years who has risked his life and been imprisoned for Iran and who has never lied to me. We dined in an all-Iranian-food restaurant, along with his wife. He has often criticised the regime. A man unafraid. But I must repeat what he said. "The election figures are correct, Robert. Whatever you saw in Tehran, in the cities and in thousands of towns outside, they voted overwhelmingly for Ahmadinejad. Tabriz voted 80 per cent for Ahmadinejad. It was he who opened university courses there for the Azeri people to learn and win degrees in Azeri. In Mashad, the second city of Iran, there was a huge majority for Ahmadinejad after the imam of the great mosque attacked Rafsanjani of the Expediency Council who had started to ally himself with Mousavi. They knew what that meant: they had to vote for Ahmadinejad."

My guest and I drank dookh, the cool Iranian drinking yoghurt so popular here. The streets of Tehran were a thousand miles away. "You know why so many poorer women voted for Ahmadinejad? There are three million of them who make carpets in their homes. They had no insurance. When Ahmadinejad realised this, he immediately brought in a law to give them full insurance. Ahmadinejad's supporters were very shrewd. They got the people out in huge numbers to vote – and then presented this into their vote for Ahmadinejad."


Also see this scientific poll conducted days before election:

 http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/iran110609.html

Interestingly it predicts a 2-1 victory for Ahmadinejad over Mousavi

Also it states:

Inside Iran, considerable attention has been given to Mr. Moussavi's Azeri background, emphasizing the appeal his Azeri identity may have for Azeri voters. The results of our survey indicate that only 16 percent of Azeri Iranians indicate they will vote for Mr. Moussavi. By contrast, 31 percent of the Azeris claim they will vote for Mr. Ahmadinejad.

> As I have commented on another thread (  http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2009>
>06/432118.html?c=on#c225926) the most relevant thing about a person's support for the >opposition is their motivation. I am not at all a fan of the regime, nor an apologist for >Ahmejinedad. But support for the opposition *might* indicate support for CIA trouble-making, or >even preparing the ground for an invasion designed to discourage economic nationalism and to >gain access to Iranian oil.

Jon the left's "motivation" must be defending the rights of people on the street, not what one *might* indicate. If anything the US will have a better excuse to attack Iran or place more sanctions if Ahmadinejad is in power. The west and indeed israel have had the easiest of times to persue their wishes in middle east as a result of Ahmadinejad's gov, since they are able to portray Iran as a fundamentalist anti-semitic dictatorship, I cannot really see how the west would have an excuse should democracy prevails in Iran. Iran has been the most democratic state in middle east (with an exception of Turkey) for a very long time, and NO the west has not recognised that ever since rather Iran has been portrayed as a terrorist state while sheikhdoms such as Saudi Arabia or electoral dictatorship such as Egypt have been close allies of the west. Pelase bear in mind that Ahmadinejad's Govornment has done nothing towards economic nationalism but to open the markets to allies such as Russia and China, as a result Iranian national industries as well as agriculture have recieved heavy blows as a result of the ever more isolated Iranian govornment's economical favours for Chino-Russian businesses to survive the the political isolation.


>Your suggestion that a particular government should not recognise the result rather requires the >government in question to respect democracy at all times, not just when it suits them. Witness >then, the acquiescence of the British Government regarding the views of the Palestinian people, >or the US establishment "not recognising" leftist governments opposed to neo-conservatism.

I am with you on this one, however I hav not seen much support from British Leftists either, the British Left seems to be delluded that Ahmadinejad has the support of the working class and the opposition is the voice of the middle class.

>Therefore could I trouble you, Nima, to condemn any subversive American interference in Iranian >politics? I agree that if you are a stooge then you will tell me anything I want to hear, but at least >it brings this issue out into the light where it can be discussed.

> I have been against foreign intervention in Iraq, Afghanistan and palestine. I would thus be extremely concerned should America wants to get involved militarily in Iran. People in the opposition camp in Iran do not wish a foreign intervention, they demand respect to their votes, intelligence and dignity. They are after their democratic rights which they have been denied. They need to achieve it themselves, but how about the left in UK? have they "all" recognised that? so much for the lefties' claims of supporting the will of the people! Have you been following how many have been killed lately?

In the surveys that you posted to show that ahmadinejad was truely elected did you also mention that:

1- The polls were taken BEFORE the highly critical televised debates which changed the whole mood of election?( I was in In Iran travelling then, and NO not in the cities in villages)

2- Did you mention that 27% of people stated that they were undecided?

3- That the poll has pridicted that there will be a second round and thus no one is likely to win 50%+1 of the whole votes?

4- 77% favour a more democratic govornment, not the one which supresses people's peaceful demonstrations and replies with bullets?

5- (and most importantly) That according to the polls, most Iranians are afraid of answering to foreign journalists who they would vote?

Please be fair when you just report supposedly SCIENTIFIC data. One should be able to use her common sense to able to realise that POLLs are NOT scientific.

>>Mousavi's support base is the new bourgeoisie - the middle classes.
utter nonesense, Mousavi in Iran is famous for his socialist economical policies which helped the survival of Iranian economy in during the 8 year war with Iraq, while the whole west was supporting Iraq and placing sanctions in Iran. Indeed the economy was in better shape than it is now despite the price of Oil iduring Ahmadinejad's govornment.


>Whilst they are visible in rich North Tehran where all the posh hotels reporters stay at are and >whilst they can all speak english making them ideal for interviews, and whilst they all have blogs >and facebooks for lazy reporters to quote, they do not however represent the masses. >Ahmadinejads base is the poor, especially the rural poor whom he has helped so much in his 4 >years. The poor outnumber the rich, this election was not a fix, Mousavi never stood a chance. >Its another case of western media falling for its own manufactured hype whilst ignoring the reality.

And that is exactly where the west lefties have gone wrong, Ahmadinejad has been carrying out POPULIST policies but your mistake is that you think such POPULIST policies have actually made him POPULAR. Ahmadinejad's policies have caused major problem for Iran's agriculture, Iran (while was independent of the west to import wheat) now is the biggest importer of Amerca's Wheat. Iran has to import Tea and Rice whereas it used to be an exporter, the same story goes for the rest of agricultural products. Same applies for industry, Iran's industry has recieved heavy blows as a result of Iranian's favour for russia and china, as a direct result of surviving the westerns sanctions. Iranian Auto Industry, Steel and copper , as well as Oil industry are under heavy pressures. a great deal of labourers, teachers, nurses, factory workers had not been pain until few weeks before the elections, indeed some have not been pain to this date.


> Ahmadinejad in the 90min post-election foreign press question-answer session shown on >presstv hinted at it by recalling the persian story of someone at a market place playing a prank >on a bystander saying to him that they are giving free food at the other end of the market. A few >minutes later he saw people rushing past him so he asked someone whats going on. The reply >came 'havent you heard there is free soup being given out!". The person who started the rumour >himself then has doubts and starts thinking they cant all be wrong maybe there is free soup and >rushes to the other side of the market looking for the non-existent soup, falling for his own >manufactured lie!

I believe the story applies to ahmadinejad and western ahmadinejad apologists who believe that his populist policies have made him popular. True, peaple in the villages are completely dependant on the govornment. But they too realise that they have had to become dependant of the govornment as a result of his policies which have put Iranian national agriculture and Industry under heavy pressure. People have dignity and they rather earn as a result of their work and not recieviibng charity from govornment.