One of the major pitdalls of anti-fascism at the moment is the degree to which the mainstream parties are offering their support for anti-fascism. It makes it seem as though it's some sort of party political game whereby the main parties, threatened by the rise of a party supported in some areas by working class people, decide to throw insults at the BNP and urge people to vote against them. But what does this amount ot? Voting for the very parties that have tilled the ground that the BNP now prosper in. The government and tories are as anti-working class as the BNP so calling on people to support them or any of the other confederacies of inept bureaucrats is not only patronising but utterly counter productive.

What needs to be done is that we need to undermine the ground the BNP canvas on. The class struggle left needs to highlight the divisive nature of liberalmulti-culturalism whch divides communities up into groups based on race and religion, we need to highlight how bosses use migrant labour to weaken the collective will of the workforce and drive down wages, while also organising with migrant workers to ensure they have the same rights as us and to build these rights, we need to attack the government, banks and ruling class whove created the modern day BNP. We also have to continue the tedious task of unmasking the BNP for the racially motivated party they are and of course to ensure there is always a physical presenece on the streets whenever these contemptible bastards try to garner support in our communities.

What do people think about the possibility of the BNP continuing the prevalence of the street presence over the next few months? Thye've had demos in Stoke and Birmingham recently and i think there was talk on here about some sort of demo in support of the troops in London. Do people think these results will give the BNP the confidence to make a more concerted return to the streets?

i cant see the BNP returning to the streets anytime soon. They've been firmly orientated towards electoral politics for a decade now and are doing very well out of it.

The BNP have been returning to the streets for some time already, holding stalls, selling papers, leafleting, even marching. They've faced some militant resistance, but not enough. Those who oppose the BNP need to be prepared to physically defend our streets and our communities from the encroach of these scum.

It is clearly time to agonise over "the voting process".

The BNP have a tiny core of voters and activists. In the same way as many left wing political groups of the twentieth century (only a decade ago), the BNP have chosen to use the electoral process.

First, the BNP are systematically and consistently putting out a message that "the current system is corrupt have nothing to do with corruption". This helps to encourage people to disengage from politics. It is the same message that a lot of antifascists and anarchists put out. So, regardless of motivation, the left is helping the BNP.

Second, the BNP are using the electoral process. With low turnouts, the number of BNP supporters as a percentage of the voters rises. Where 100 boneheads used you be .01% they are now 10%. Not hard to see that low turnouts result in electoral distortion. The BNP are not stupid. They are racist. They are fascist. They are wrong. They are not stupid. The BNP is seeking low turnout as a way into power.

Like it or not, Anarchists need to address if representative democracy and voting are to be used as tactics or if they are to simply be ignored. If voting is to be ignored then Antifascists do need a really effective tactic for the situation of BNP electoral success. Those who remember the 1970s will realise that the National Front started to have electoral power before the election of Thatcher. It is not simply the extreme right that is now a threat but the cuddly, acceptable "we are such a centre party" right.

Remember Edgar Griffin? He was a Conservative Councillor. The Tories do not like to be reminded of his existence. An IP address at Conservative Central Office removed his mention from Nick Griffins Biography on Wikipedia. The Right, from Cameron to Lafarge and Griffin are the same group of people. They want to be the Establishment and, in many cases, are the establishment.

Lets not talk about voting is about as realistic as Basil Fawlty screaming, "don't talk about the war". Not talking about voting as a tactical practice will let more and more extreme right wingnuts into power. I understand the argument that this will highlight the inherent failures of representative democracy and the need for reform. Nobody is taking that argument through the ballot box. UKIP - fascists in blazers - are getting elected on a platform of Euroscepticism. Why get elected on a platform of nonparticipation? UKIP are using it to prevent Euroenthusiasts from actually participating in Europe.

The BNP are among the worst, most useless politicians in the country. Actually ask them to do something and they frequently fail. If they want to be elected it is time for them to be made to work for their expenses. That is also an electoral strategy: make elected representatives represent. It is all very well anarchists saying: "voting changes fuck all". Letting fascists get elected changes something - it excludes democratic, participatory anarchists from any political say.

Make the BNP work. Get multiple muslim groups, trade union groups - all the people he hates- in the North West to repeatedly get Nick Griffin to work for them. He is their representative. He has a duty. The same in the North East. Choose an issue and make Cyclops work at it hard. Say, racism. He is democracies bitch and should know it. If he fails to address the issue publish the failure when he succeeds publish. He has no constituency except for fascists. Making Griffin Democracys bitch removes the fascist support. Rapidly.

Anarchists who have argued against voting - because it never changes anything - now have an opportunity to show what participation achieves. There is a need to do it. Otherwise the failure of voting will never become apparent at a general level. Unless the left start working the BNP "representatives" into the ground there will only be more of them.

There is a critical mass of BNP representation in the country. The next general election will see an extreme right wing Conservative party elected. Same as Thatcher on the back of the NF rise to popularity. History teaches these lessons. Anarchists and antifascists need to learn them bloody quickly or the country will have yet another permanent rightward shift.

Make the BNP fail. Griffin was on television attempting to set sikhs against muslims. Time for the Muslims to make him work for them.

This is an interesting thread. Although I am very cynical indeed about the value of voting and agree with much of the original post (and also the first comment by Bruised Shins) I have to say that I am intrigued by the ideas raised by Concordot, about demanding that Brons and Griffin work like bastards for the areas they represent - then, when they inevitably fail, their strategy of using the political system for thier own fascist ends becomes clear and they can be ridiculed as the same type of vacuous, self-serving politician that they currently claim to oppose! Quite nice!

Any other thoughts?

While coming from the more militant aproach to ani fascism I do think there's a good case for a concerted campaign to make Griffin and Brons work for there money [and suffer for it as well]...We need to organise a campaign to clog up there surgeries with enquiries,emails to his secretary by the thousands ,anything that makes there job a struggle and costs money that would otherwise be going into part funds

I agree with all the above. However, as an anarchist who has actively promoted a "Don't Vote, It Only Encourages Them" angle in the past, I am still smarting from the promotion of not voting by some people during these elections. It was clear months in advance that turnout was going to be very low as the easiest, most passive form of "protest vote". It was clear that the BNP would be the prime beneficiaries of low turnout combined with anti-mainstream feelings and the normalisation of right-wing views in the white working class recently. In my Euro-zone, it was also clear that bolstering a Green vote was the only way of keeping the Fuerer of the BNP out of the European Parliament. As an anarchist, I therefore put a green rosette on and worked for a political party on election day. Other anarchists in my city did the same. In fact, I was amazed by the number of people who put in time for the Green party, regardless of any previous support for the party, including bar-staff from two local pubs who have never shown any interest in politics, to my knowledge. And yet Nazi Nick still crept in. A few more anarchists in key areas swallowing their pride in order to tactically oppose two unreconstructed fascists getting over £100,000 a year and access to resources, offices, might have also stopped the European far-right from having the key number of MEPs (25) to form a political grouping in the European parliament, giving them more access to resources to spread their racist filth.

Not voting, in normal times, is a good anarchist message. Voting implicitly legitimises the incoming government, of whatever colour. However, when disillusionment with the political system is so high that not voting is the norm, voting is the only rational protest vote of an anarchist, to make sure that the rotten electoral system doesn't hand over power and resources to the real extremists.

"However, when disillusionment with the political system is so high that not voting is the norm, voting is the only rational protest vote of an anarchist, to make sure that the rotten electoral system doesn't hand over power and resources to the real extremists."

Sorry @, but I think that is rubbish. All my lifetime, there have been Anarchists saying that on this or that occassion (going back to Harold Wilson's days) we should vote, to keep out 'extremists' or whatever. The fact is, and as I'm sure you know in your heart, whoever we go out and vote for, we will have 'extremists' in government. Advocating a line of 'Don't waste your vote' meant essentiually in most working class communities 'Vote Labour', and that hideously racist party did not deserve a single vote. Nor do people deserve to have their intelligence insulted with such a message. The fact is the BNP have played the (rotten) system, but the answer for Anarchists and militant antifascists should not be to join them in that system. Unfortunately, we are relatively low in numbers and it will take more than the application of 'truth' to their 'lies' to set things right. Genuine antifascists are going to have to get their hands dirty, and I'm not speaking metaphorically here. The BNP are certainly on the rise, thousands of people voted for them, and we are going to have to become a lot more active and a lot more militant if we are going to do anything about it. Voting 'against' the BNP (and pushing that line to the public) might have seemed like easy medecine, but in fact would have meant nothing more (at best) than a strengthened mandate for mainstream politicians (because people really would have NOT voted Green in large numbers) and publicly abandoning principals which set us apart from the scum at Westminster and Brussels.

>It's going to take more than voting to stop the BNP

A lot more. The voting system is rigged however to finance nowadays. The BNP will earn millions of pounds from having these two seats, all because in a collapse in the Labour Party. In PR elections voting negatively for a candidate lowers the percentage of the other candidates.

> All my lifetime, there have been Anarchists saying that on this or that occassion (going back to Harold Wilson's days) we should vote, to keep out 'extremists' or whatever... The fact is the BNP have played the (rotten) system, but the answer for Anarchists and militant antifascists should not be to join them in that system.

Vote negatively. Don't vote for anyone remotely likely to get in, if you don't have a preference, but vote for someone. If there is no one suitable already running as a candidate as 'None of the Above' then consider doing so. People need 'protest candidates' to register our protest without giving more money to the BNP by not voting. All my respect to the great job done by 'The Monster Raving Loony Party'

If anyone in Antifa disputes that, it doesn't cost much to run as a candidate to be an MP. The BNP have just got an estimated four million quid because too few people voted for their opposition candidates. The entire antifascist movement has never seen that much money in the past 60 years.
I am suggesting running an AntiFa or whatever candidate in future national elections, to enable electors to choose someone who was opposed to representative democracy / fascism / corporate-whatever.

>Unfortunately, we are relatively low in numbers and it will take more than the application of 'truth' to their 'lies' to set things right.

I disagree on both counts.


>Genuine antifascists are going to have to get their hands dirty, and I'm not speaking metaphorically here.

I agree with that, we are also going to keep our brains running.


>The BNP are certainly on the rise, thousands of people voted for them,
Much the same as last time, their percentage shot up because fewer people voted for other parties.

I don't think they did rise, I think the other parties haemorraged.


>and we are going to have to become a lot more active and a lot more militant if we are going to do anything about it.

That's true. Thanks to your 'no voting' strategy they are now far richer than you.

>Voting 'against' the BNP (and pushing that line to the public) might have seemed like easy medecine, but in fact would have meant nothing more (at best) than a strengthened mandate for mainstream politicians (because people really would have NOT voted Green in large numbers) and publicly abandoning principals which set us apart from the scum at Westminster and Brussels.

A vote for any non-fascist candidate directly starves the fascists of funds. If there is absolutely no candidate you can stomach in any election, then do it yourself on a platform where you give your salary back to your consituents.

1.The politics of "No Platform" failed. Attempting to ban/censor fascists isn't working and will never work.

2.Instead of putting forward well put, sensisble and well thought out arguments against the BNP's racist policies the majority of anti-fascist protest groups just stand around waving placard, shouting slogans through megaphones ("SMASH THE BNP!" Doh!) and on occasion sinking to the level of shear thuggery that does not convince anyone who might be thinking of voting to the BNP that doing so would not be a good idea.

3.Pro-immigration lobbying does involve putting across arguments as to why immigraiton is good for this country, the world in general and why stopping/restricting immigration would be bad for the economy, instead it involes shouting "WAHH YOU RACIST" and trying to censor people who believe that immigration should be stopped/resticted.

4.Much of the anti-facist lobby is hugely patronising and believes the majority of the working classes to be thick, easily led and unable to make up their own minds (hence calls to ban BNP election broadcasts from the airwaves)

And note for Unite Against Fascism...Throwing eggs at people isn't going to win any arguments or convice the public that the BNP is bad. It just makes you look like twats!