President Obama: War Criminal in Waiting

(ex?) MI5?

25.01.2009 18:36

A question about one of your sources, we are change, is this the same we are change that has heavy involvement with (ex?) MI5 agents?

Thanks for your help!

hmm

it could be argued that all information from we are change and their sub groups (MWH, WTC, TA etc) is being disseminated for the benefit of the secret services, if indeed there is such involvement with MI5 in these groups.

i'm not making any statements or claims that these are the facts but it is a possibility that must be considered due to the nature of activism in the UK and the desperate mesures the secret service will go to to infiltrate our movements.

the first priority of everyone in leftist movements must be to protect ourselves by having the full facts about these "groups" disclosed so we can make an informed choice -- and also to warn other activists who might otherwise fall into the trap and hand over their information to the secret services.

my name

Hello Trolls

25.01.2009 21:12

You couldn't be more obvious. Thanks.

Troll Eater

Empty claims and a smear campaign? Or do you have anything serious to say?

25.01.2009 21:32

Just interested to know -

"i'm not making any statements or claims that these are the facts but it is a possibility that must be considered due to the nature of activism in the UK and the desperate mesures the secret service will go to to infiltrate our movements."

What have we are change done to try and infiltrate your movement?

"the first priority of everyone in leftist movements must be to protect ourselves by having the full facts about these "groups" disclosed so we can make an informed choice -- and also to warn other activists who might otherwise fall into the trap and hand over their information to the secret services."

What have we are change done to try and get you to "hand over your information" to them?

what?

MI5 are watching?

25.01.2009 23:13

It's simple; is there MI5 involvement with these groups?

The answer is yes.

End of story.

the facts

the facts speak for themselves

26.01.2009 01:58

Stop crying "smear campaign" and get down to business. Address the accusations that have been made.

Are they really unfounded? Really?

Last time I checked Annie Machon was knee deep involved with these truther groups.

For a "truth" movement you're not doing a very good job at being truthful.

Sorry Gareth, I know you mean well but this time you fail.

STOP CRYING

Poisoning the Well

26.01.2009 10:18

Wow you guys are so paranoid!

You should get out more! Really!

Other than 'poisoning the well' - a classic disinformation tactic - you appear to have nothing much to say.

Why don't you address the facts instead?

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2008/10/411669

Troll Frenzy

blind?

26.01.2009 12:02

are you denying Machon is involved?

Machon is directly involved, that is a fact and one that has been proven over and over. check her own words on her own web site.

to deny this is a lie.

how is stating the facts 'poisoning the well'? you're the one trying to convince us that Machon isn't involved when we all know she is.

our research skills are slightly better than the average truthers, you may have noticed.

cheers, youre doing your cause a great service. keep it up, youre making my life a lot easier.

uh oh

Obama already a war-criminal

26.01.2009 12:25

The article was already out of date when it was posted. The previous day President Obama had killed 22 people in a bombing raid on an allied country, without any legal justification or UN resolution.

Obama airstrikes kill 22 in Pakistan

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article5581084.ece

The beast has a different face but not a different nature.

ambigram

IMO

26.01.2009 12:33

Some of the wearechange material I have seen is excellent.

9/11, 7/7 and Mumbai are most likely to be "inside jobs".

Machon must not be seen as an MI5 agent but as a Mossad one.

If Machon is indeed involved with wearechange, which I am not aware of cos I haven't followed them much lately, then there is ground to be extremely suspicious.

IMO

i stand by my comment

26.01.2009 12:40

about research skills.

cheers fella

uh oh

Copnspiracy Theorists

26.01.2009 13:16

Why is it that those who claim to be the greatest opponents of conspiracy theories, on closer inspection, are the greatest proponents of them?

The conspiracy theory that people who question the official story of 9/11 are in fact MI5/Mossad/Zionist agents sent to infiltrate and destroy "leftist movements" is one that has spread like a virus into indymedia.

There is no evidence, no logic even to this, and when people ask for it the response seems to be to insult them (see above)

I don't know what to think about the 9/11 conspiracy thing myself, I'm pretty much on the fence, but at least the truthers are trying to make a coherent argument based around their interperatation of the evidence. Whether they are right or wrong they aren't just spouting accusations with no argument or evidence attached.

That the supposed left wing respond with the worst kind of conspiracy theory - one based on innuendo and nothing much else - is frankly pathetic.

It really gets on my nerves. What's wrong with people just having different points of view? Are you all that insecure?

Why does everything have to be a bloody conspiracy theory?

Uh-huh

Troll Frenzy

26.01.2009 13:17

These 911 activists must be doing something right to attract so many anonymous frothing trolls eh!

Not a troll

Annie Machon Active MI5?

26.01.2009 13:41

The accusation seems to be - any group which ascosiates with Annie Machon is an MI5 front - no room for doubt.

Despite this logic being shaky, the assumption this accusation rests on is that Machon is an active MI5 agent.

Is there genuine evidence that Annie Machon is an active MI5 agent?

I've looked her up and, officially at least, she left the service after blowing the whistle on illegal MI6 operations.

Is there evidence this is untrue? Or is this just another conspiracy theory?

Please include links.

Thanks in advance.

Uh-huh again

many have

26.01.2009 14:19

links? sorry but its truther thinking that all information lives on the Internet. If it's not on the Internet then it cannot be true.

If you want evidence speak to the many people who were actively involved with the truth movement but left BECAUSE it was so obvious that Machon isn't all she claims to be.

There's many of them.

Reading Notes From The Borderland and Class War might be a good place to start, they do something truthers never do.. go and get the story first hand.

you need to listen

Footnotes will do

26.01.2009 14:53

If there isn't any evidence on the internet, a footnote to a book or newspaper articles would do, or even something anecdotal with a little more substance than "the truthers told me", which seems to be the position you're falling back on.

I've looked at Notes from the Borderland, and it reads like the rantings of a mad man.

I'm asking you to back up your assertation with some kind of evidence or proof, or if you can't manage that at least a coherent argument.

Insulting me isn't going to convince me either.

It appears this is another example of the anti-truthers being more like truthers than the truthers - the average argument being "it's obvious!" and the standard response to a request for evidence being to insult your opposite.

Uh-huh once more

put the handbag down

26.01.2009 15:27

quit being over sensitive. nobody called you a nasty name. stop making things up. typical troofer.

stop expecting people to do the legwork for you. do your own research. typical truther.

drama queen

Well I guess there's our answer

26.01.2009 16:27

In other words, you can't provide any evidence, proof or even a coherent argument as to why Annie Machon, let alone the groups you claim are asociated with her are MI5.

You could have just said so in the first place and saved yourself the trouble.

Peace.

Uh-huh Uh-huh

if youre too lazy..

26.01.2009 17:21

to read the sources that have been suggested to you then im too lazy to dig them out of a pile of books and mags and give you page numbers. take some responsibility.

"if i can't see it, it does not exist"

You're not listening

26.01.2009 18:45

My friend I have looked at your website - it offers no more substance than you do - just makes allegations and innuendo without ever offering anything close to evidence, or proof or a serious academic argument.

This is pointless. I started off simply asking you to fill me in on the Annie Machon thing, if there is evidence she is an active MI5 agent I'd be happy to accept that.

Your response has been to evade and tap dance and flail around.

You appear to be sowing seeds of suspicion in the hope that weak minded people will gobble them up, if someone asks you for anything substantial to back up your claims you throw a paddy.

If you have something - present it. All I'm seeing is wild conspiracy theories, and to be honest I'm bored. I'll check back on this thread next week to see what you've come up with, but getting into a dialectic with you appears utterly pointless.

uh-huh

Obaaama the Sheeples champion !!!

26.01.2009 18:55

Obaama

Baa Black Sheep

can you read?

26.01.2009 19:17

i've already told you, go read Notes From The Borderland AND Class War.

SchNews might help too..

go.. to.. their.. web.. sites... and.. order.. back copies.. READ THEM ALL

its not that hard to do, even a truther can manage it.

now what's this about my web site? which one would that be then? have i suddenly become a webmaster since this convo started? have i been sleep-blogging again?

you may have me confused with someone else, but please humour me some more.

christ

FUD and Newton's Third Law.

27.01.2009 00:38

Intelligence Services (IS's) only employ Psychopaths with either Social Dominance Oriented or Authoritarian Personality Types (see Adorno, Altemeyer et al)

FUD=Fear, Uncertainty Doubt. a method used by IS's to disrupt people and groups.

Machon joins 9-11 truth so that trolls can slag off the truth "movement" on posts like this without having to look at any evidence - such as the empirical data gathered from the video evidence.

9/11 = False Flag Operation on behalf of the Ruling Class (some prefer Ruling Elite) see M.Parenti for a definition.
How do I know?
Newton's Third Law.

http://journalof911studies.com/volume/2008/TheMissingJolt4.pdf

Boycott Oil

2%Human

UK Indymedia