Skip to content or view screen version

Netcu Watch // How you might go to prison for not knowing or knowing someone...

Netcu Watch | 21.01.2009 14:34 | SHAC | Animal Liberation | Globalisation | Repression

"Persons Unknown" (the illusive terrorist group) made a special visit to seal the deal in the latest SHAC trial. Whoever these persons unknown are they sure to drop us in it time and time again. Apparently the defence were part of a group which torched cars, used blackmail and intimidation to further the campaign against HLS.

"They conspired to do A B and C ... with Persons or Persons Unknown." - Who are persons unknown?

Persons unknown are the naughty ones, in the daylight hours they could be teachers, taxi drivers, the unemployed, squatters, hippies, tennis coaches, midwives or anarchists. In the evenings they don balaclavas, gloves, lock picks, paint stripper and various other tools of the Persons Unknown trade and they take direct action to try and stop the insidious murderous industry which is the vivisection / arms trade / bio-tech / etc industry.

The above conspiracy law can link you to these individuals whether you know them to talk to or even if you have never met them at all. By legally organising (protest / stalls / leafleting) against these industries and there suppliers above ground, you may inspire someone who you don't even know to take illegal direct action. e.g. paint strip a car / make a death threat etc. Or they may have sworn at an employee at your local arms manufacturers.

Now whether you support direct action or not, or whether you support vivisection or not it simply doesn't matter. We are in a situation where the police don't even need to prove you did something wrong or EVEN that you knew about the actions taking place. They can still just say you conspired. Sorry.

Now lets draw up another hypothetical, I smash up a shop because I'm pissed out of my face. I am arrested. I am charged. I am convicted. I get a slap on the wrist and pay compensation to the shop keeper. Probably not even a conviction in reality, its probably not really worth taking any further.

I smash a shop window that supplies pencils to HLS / Sequani (insert your favourite bastards here) and you are looking at 2 years minimum, better yet, you aren't even the person who smashed the window, you are the press officer / website updater for the campaign against said bastard company. You are looking at 5 years for doing sweet FA. Because lets face it you probably knew the person and even if you didn't they don't give a flying shit.

Press are fed story after story saying how they were "PART OF A CAMPAIGN" that used illegal tactics (not that THEY used illegal tactics) past actions are dragged up again to remind the public of why millions of tax money is being thrown at a generally peaceful movement who has never killed anyone.

Having said all this about direct action, evidence used in court has included, polite letters, polite phone calls, using the word murderer, scum or even in one case writing the word scum in the dirt on the floor.

Job done, does anyone care about the sentences? These terrorists would rather see a rat saved that YOUR child. Aren't they the people who blow up scientists? I bet they accept animal tested drugs if they needed them!

These are just a few of the seeds sewn by the media, phama / vivisection lobbyists, NETCU, CPS and other government spineless faecal outlets.

We live in serious times when the animal liberation movement is being portrayed as the Goliath and the Pharmaceutical Lobby, Police and Government as the David. Some lobbyist deserves a serious serious pay rise apparently.

For those of you reading this, we as the animal liberation movement ask only one thing, regardless of you view on animal exploitation or our actions as activists. We need solidarity, we need you to recognise how the police are trying so hard to marginalise our movement. If not for our sake, for your sake, because when you oppose industry and the status quo you WILL feel the full brunt of the opposition if not now then soon.

All the best and solidarity to all prisoners, activists and anyone who gives a fuck about anything and is willing to take action.


Netcu Watch
- e-mail: warn at rise up dot net
- Homepage:


A few things......

22.01.2009 11:58

The Judge's home address, comment regarding son's death.
It is only my personal view but first I felt uneasy about the comment (surplus to requirements), secondly, 7 people have just been sent down for a total of 50 years for things done by other people. They have moved the goal posts and in the future they might try it again. It is no longer the perpetrator of an action who will face the consequences alone, others none of whom are involved could do as well. All activists need to bear this in mind and act intelligently. If an activist faces conspiracy charges because someone else puts up a judges address and then someone else paints his windows black, that is one thing, bring in the other matter adding his son's death and it makes it seem a bit more sinister. I am not criticising but just saying that personally to gloat over a human tragedy seems a bit below the belt and tactically gets sympathy for Neil whereas something else such as pieing him in court would just raise a laugh (I am NOT suggesting that anyone should do this though).

The "single issue" accusation.
So what if someone spends their every waking moment on a "single issue" to the elimination of all else whether it be against HLS, EDO, BAA, the Israeli invasion of Gaza or anything else? No-one can do everything. In my experience some activists by focusing single mindedly on a campaign work best that way, yes they might get a bit of tunnel vision but they keep things on track. Other activists work best by spreading themselves thinly and linking up with other issues and campaigns. Both are vital and have their place. You will find activists who campaign on animal rights, Gaza, Edo etc. I too find it frustrating when some activists do not see how animal rights, human rights, environmental degradation are interlinked but it is often because they are working so hard on what they are doing.

HLS is not single issue target. Look on their website and look at who their customers are for example they test GM crops for Monsanto, animals are abused, people in India are abused, the environment is desecrated, the right to protest is obliterated. HLS are part of the corporate nightmare destroying our planet and I am suprised that this needs explaining to anyone who is an anarchist. There is nothing to stop anyone holding a demonstration against HLS solely on their role in GMOs or the fact that they do research for Shell and all the other oil companies totally separate from the animal rights concerns.

Lynn Sawyer


Hide the following 22 comments

Mr. No Justice Butterfield

21.01.2009 15:13

Or plain old Neil Butterfield when you strip away his wig, gown and pompous titles. You might want to let this friend of HLS know exactly what you think about him.

[Personal details removed as per: ]


Why would you even bring up such an event. You baffle me!

21.01.2009 15:48

In response to the ALF comment re- butterfield
[Personal information removed as per: ]

Why the fuck would you say such a thing, how depraved are you?

You didn't happen to dig up an old lady from her grave did you?

You are the reason AR movement have such a shit name and shallow following with comments like that
you do the movement real injustice!


Support, or lack of it

21.01.2009 16:17

This posting states that those who are not involved in animal rights issues have somehow disowned animal rights campaigners. That is untrue. Those who campaign on other issues are aware of the political activities of the police and courts against animal rights activists.

There are some who are against animal rights campaigners, always have been, always will. Most of those who are have still been disturbed by the actions of the police and courts. There are some who don't care at all about animal rights protestors, always have been, always will, and who don't care about what the police and courts are doing. These are few in number though.



21.01.2009 16:32

and those who make derogatory comments about posters against vivisection are usually the cops or those with a vested interest. Ignore them!


to ALF

21.01.2009 17:37

i would like to reiterate @narchist's response. Bringing up the [Personal details removed as per: ] is SHAMEFUL.

and whilst i agree completely with Chris's call for solidarity - although not an AR activist, i have followed the SHAC case closely as it has shown how the state is constantly trying to get ALL activists branded "terrorist" - encouraging people to remind the judge of his son's death is PATHETIC, and detracts completely from Chris's original post.

i will NEVER show solidarity for people like the person who posted that comment and hope other activists have enough sense to agree.


Solidarity to those involved

21.01.2009 19:01

This was a request for solidarity, I think it's pretty fair to say that the people involved in this case (and other AR related things) haven't gotten half as much solidarity as they may have done if they were part of another campaign. It seems the AR movement, and particularly SHAC, really aren't 'in' at the moment as I would expect utter outrage from ALL activists at this, but there we go.

"i will NEVER show solidarity for people like the person who posted that comment"

You aren't being asked to. @narchist too had the time to have a go at someone for writing something a bit silly - though you don't know who they are, ever considered their friend/comrades have just been banged up for doing nothing and they might be a little angry? You're being asked to show solidarity for people who have been locked up for something they did not do - last time I checked this type of thing is considered a big deal.


Get a grip on things, its because of comments like that of ALF.....

21.01.2009 19:22

......that solidarity is not pouring from the movement, you get my drift?!

It may be a silly comment to you but I find it completely pathetic and the only thing people will take from it is
AR have all the sympathy for the animals but don't give a fuck for the humans.. that single issue thing!

So think before you spout shit!


pro-animal abuse on Indymedia

21.01.2009 19:36

Out come the pro-animal abuse trolls pretending to be "activists" who don't have solidarity with the Stop Huntingdon Animal Cruelty (SHAC) prisoners.

7 people get outrageous sentences for doing nothing illegal, more than some people who gang raped and burnt a woman recently, and some person calling themselves "@narchist" gets their knickers in a twist over someone gloating over the judge's dead son?

FFS, no self-respecting anarchist would ever say that, irrespective of their views on animal rights.

The son is dead, so he's not going to mind. The judge is ruling class scum so who cares what he thinks.

Let's hope there is some prospect of an appeal. I won't hold my breath though, knowing how far up the pharmaceutical industry's arse Butterfield, NETCU and the Labour party are.

Good luck to the prisoners. You will go down in history as heroes, and the fight against Huntingdon Life Sciences and all animal abuse will go on unabated.

Let's not forget the horrific pain and abuse meted out to dogs, monkey, cats, rodents, birds, and many other animals at Huntingdon Life Sciences. It's the people who do this that should be in prison, not the SHAC activists.


Here we go again. You try and twist every line!

21.01.2009 20:02

I'll repeat again, because of You and people like you the AR movement is fucked. I know lots of great people involved in AR and spent many years myself as a hunt sab but fuck has it deteriorated because of small minded single issue fucks like you with massive egos who I think dont care about animals or humans. No I am not a troll just someone who can see through the shite!

Solidarity to all prisoners (not just AR prisoners, you follow!)


oh please

21.01.2009 20:52

"AR have all the sympathy for the animals but don't give a fuck for the humans"

What a crock of shit. Every AR person I know does stuff for other campaigns. Yes, I fully admit that their are some selfish, single minded, nasty AR people out there - just like there are in every other group/campaign etc I've ever been involved in.

I was saying you thought it more important to snap at someone for saying something stupid than to give solidarity to some people who had been locked up for something they did not do. You're right - Solidarity to ALL prisoners, especially ones who have been maliciously targeted and regardless of what others in that group/campaign etc have done/said to piss you off.



21.01.2009 22:29

The commenter calling themselves 'ALF' could be a genuine AR activist, angry because they are fed up of being brutalised by the state. Or (equally likely) they could be someone seeking to discredit AR and divert attention from the issue at stake.

Of course bringing up someone's dead son is distasteful, but we shouldn't be distracted from the main issue here: activists are being imprisoned merely for being prominently involved in a campaign which included illegal direct action by *others*.


oh come on! just think about this.

21.01.2009 23:17

[Personal information removed as per: ]

that is DISGUSTING and shows a total lack of respect for human emotions and grief. no, i'm not someone from NETCU or the police or someone who is anti-AR - i am part of the animal rights movement and i think it's absolutely horrible that someone would think that reminding someone about their son's death is a legitimate way of getting what you want.

it's because of things like this that the media had SO much stuff to dig up on the AR movement when the SHAC trial was happening!

i agree totally that the sentences were terrible and the trial was unfair - but i would NEVER wish a son's death on anyone, and i would NEVER want to add to their grief.

if the AR movement is going to get taken more seriously people need to stop doing foul, disrespectful things that are just going to turn the public against us.

i know there will now be a load of posts like "ooooh don't listen to that post because it's OBVIOUSLY a fake" - well all i can do is tell you that i'm not, i just happen to think that whoever the poster "ALF" is had made a terrible comment and i hope nobody actually does what he's suggesting.

just think before you do something. i think the judge was wrong, and i think the whole case was wrong, and of course i think that people should fight against it and keep campaigning for the rights of animals and the end to exploitation - but just NOT like that.


P.S. i do actually think the original article is very well put :)

anoniemouse ;)

Solidarity with the SHAC 7

22.01.2009 00:00

I just wanted to say I don’t agree with the comment made by the person using the alias ALF and am sure most other genuine AR activists would agree that it was not helpful. So please don’t use it to justify your inaction on the AR issue – that’s a really stupid Ad hominem in any case.

Solidarity with the SHAC 7 – they are great activists and don’t deserve this!

AR Camb

Why are people so hung up on Butterfield's dead son?

22.01.2009 00:50

Get a sense of proportion here.

- HLS torture thousands of animals to death every year to test all sorts of products.

- The legal system has just imprisoned some excellent campaigners for doing nothing illegal, just for running a campaign where other people unknown to them broke the law, for a total of probably a whole lifetime of years.

- the whole right to protest is under attack - this will set a precedent for campaigns in other areas.

and people complain when it is pointed out that some scummy judge's son died?

Maybe the son was a great guy, I've nothing against him at all, but he's dead now, so he won't mind what is said.

But I would always be glad that a top judge has some misery in their lives, whether it was animal-rights related or not. If some people got similar sentences for anarchist activity I would think exactly the same. I'm no single-issue fanatic, I care about many things. Judges are part of the ruling class establishment, so why wouldn't anyone not like to see them upset? Especially not someone calling themselves "@narchist".

No-one is saying that someone should be killed, he is dead already. Weeping over it won't bring him back, but maybe using his death as a way to upset a judge can make some good come out of it. I don't respect these judges, so I see nothing wrong in being "disrespectful" to them, and the more people can add to their grief, the better.

for fuck's sake, did I come to by mistake?!?


v3g4n You seem to miss the point of Indymedia and have little understanding.....

22.01.2009 08:48

........ of Anarchism. Maybe you are on the wrong website or is it possible you are a troll deliberately trying fuck up sentiment and solidarity for the AR prisoners and movement. If you are a genuine AR bod then I suggest you get a couple of books, one self help with emotions and the other on Anarchism because you have some fucked up notions on both that most people would not subscribe to. Good luck with that!

Anyhow no more wasting time on this bollock we have enough to be getting on with!


Persons unknown ....

22.01.2009 08:49

My guess is that some of the attacks may be staged by the police/hired security and then claimed as ALF. These attacks can then be used to justify the conspiracy theory.

If a court does not know who the persons unknown are how can they be sure that the offence was indeed done by those who share the aims and not by false flag operations by the state/private security? Was this even brought up in court? The police were found to have lied during an earlier case against SPEAK (it was their own tape which showed up their lies) so why not expect more lies in this case. Also the frst ever "ALF bomber" turned out to be a hunt supporter who did it t try to give ALF a bad name, this was in the late 80's.

Not AR


22.01.2009 09:26

Well lets hope that pile of tosh was just blinkered denial an d not representative of your normal reasoning, as you would be too stupid not to get caught at doing anything suspect.

And talking about suspect, what the hell are 'anarchist activities'??? Making consensual decisions? Forming workers' co-operatives? Rejecting hierarchical society and authoritarianism?

The preconception of anarchists you hint at smells suspiciously of the Daily Mail.

I have to doubt the motive/credibility of someone who makes it all the way to Indymedia and then starts generating your type of ranting.

The man may be dead, but his loved ones most likely aren't, and irrespective of what you think of his father no one else deserved additional misery, especially spitefully delivered by someone who never knew the guy. But perhaps you could also furnish us with a post in what it is like when you are dead... since I presume you must have been dead then reanimated.

As pointed out to you, attacking anything but the target is a sure-fire way of discrediting the movement you purport to speak for. It's an age old tactic, and there were a few notable instances of sudden militant and repugnant action in both AR & Father for Justice, that make any sensible person at least wonder about State manipulation if not outright fabrication.

Coming here and trying to incite even agreement with such fucked up and sickening sentiments, if not ultimately provoke more of the same, mark you out quite reasonably as a plant or the type of extremist nutter that really does need locking up for the safety of all of us- irrespective of whether the anarchist apparatus for dealing with people like you exists yet.

Either way please take your vile attitude elsewhere... oh yeah, and get the Ladybird book on Anarchism.

And if you are a spook (private or state) please ask your section head/line manager for some courses on infiltration and stealth. If they refuse get in contact with you Union Rep.

Another anarchist

anarchism for middle class hippies?

23.01.2009 13:33

Sounds like some "anarchists" here get their inspiration from "Anarchism For Middle Class Hippies".

Next up: let's criticise the party there's going to be when Margaret Thatcher finally pops her clogs.


Don't feed the Trolls

23.01.2009 15:44

It just encour@ges them

Troll Watch

Well you should criticise Lynn!

23.01.2009 18:36

"I am not criticising but just saying that personally to gloat over a human tragedy seems a bit below the belt"

Maybe the AR movement will start getting somewhere when you do!



25.01.2009 21:43

Hi, despite being on the fence about where I stand on animal testing for medicinal purposes, I want to express solidarity with all animal rights activists facing the states full wrath, especially those who have now been jailed for unbelieveably long sentances. As an activist for the environment and Palestine I face very much gloves-on state repression against campaigns im involved in. I just hope you can all take some comfort knowing that the reason the state is coming down so hard on your campaign is that it has been effective, and is a threat to the authoritarian status quo


for what its worth. . . .

29.01.2009 18:30

I wonder when there will be a real move amongst so called activists, to reflecting on the approach one takes to address a concern or abuse - ought it to be by abusing or letting our frustration spill out into hostility and in some cases violence for the cause - ok, conspiracy matters are being discussed and who says its not true - many do make most people think that the approach is sick from animal rights activists - why feed the thinking by saying some sad, negative things. You feed mistrust of yourselves in these instances and others will get contaminated - lets see what responses there are to this post if any.

Im not a mainstream AR dude, however Im not pointing the finger - its about people's frustration dictating what their behaviour and voices say that frights people off.

Another approach is necessary - it is time that some not all in the the animal rights movement (most of them) smash edo (most of them), antiwar movement, anti globalisation reviewed their approach to change and how it occurs.

Addiction to protest (a negating force) and in some cases noise and annoying others, is not the way forward and doesnt endear anyone to you or your cause.

It would not be possible to have dialogue with most of you (though not all) about these issues because you do not reflect and most of the time (and if you do reflect and improve ignore this - its not about you) all that happens is the same old same old.

I had a friend who was thrown out of the AR movement as she was concerned about the way people were talked about in some meetings she went to - she promoted compassion to animals and people.

Ask people what would make you want to be prepared to get more involved? What stops you now?
What would you like it (the movement) to look like, how can it be enhanced. What context would you have for meeting, intervention and followup?

Those hardish people who want to call themselves anarchist by vulgarise an approach (if its not you dont be fussed by anything I say) are not alone, you are with the idiots who through barriers at police during the london gaza demos, the police who threw blows at the same demos and protestors at smash edo who also get violent - somehow along the way the means got mean - somewhere the campaign got pained and the activists got into acting like tip top ptotestors and others aligned themselves to these worthies and the plot got lost.

There is another secret approach - really there is....if only we wanted it enough to make a differance, we would get into real conspiracy - im for real conspiracy.