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Smashing the Israeli war machine - Starbucks, Whitechapel firebombed

trouble maker | 13.01.2009 16:39 | Anti-militarism | Palestine | Social Struggles | World

A branch of Starbucks in East London has been smashed and firebombed in what appears to be an anti-Israeli protest. Police are investigating the series of attacks in Whitechapel. First rocks were thrown through the store's window at 11.25pm on Monday night. Later, after midnight, a petrol bomb or similar was tossed into the zionist owned premises starting a fire which damaged the interior. No one was injured in the incident and the store was boarded up today as police examined the scene.

SMASH THE WAR MACHINE

There are companies all around us that are supporting & profiting from Israel’s murderous actions in Palestine. Arms killing innocent Palestinians today are made here, British companies continue to sell stolen goods from occupied Palestinian lands and profit from building the apartheid wall and prisons.

Companies that build Israel’s weapons
BAE Systems - arming Israel with F16s to attack Gaza
London - Stirling Square, Carlton Gardens, London, SW1Y 5AD

Raytheon - building missiles
Raytheon Systems Limited, The Pinnacles, Harlow, Essex, CM19 5BB
&
Harman House, 1 George Street, Uxbridge, Middx, UB8 1QQ

EDO - building the bombs that Israeli F16s are dropping on Gaza
Emblem House, Home Farm Business Centre, Home Farm Road, Brighton, BN1 9HU

Caterpillar: Bulldozing Palestinian homes onto families & murdered Rachel Corrie
Head Office, Mansour House, 188, Bath Road, Slough, Berkshire UK, SL1 3GA

Israel Military Industries, Eurotaas (EUTA) Ltd, 12 York Gate, London NW1 4QS

Companies protecting the occupation:
Carmel Agrexco: selling stolen goods from occupied land.
Uxbridge, Middlesex
Tel. 44-208-848-7788 Fax. 44-208-848-1106

Ahava - Dead Sea Cosmetics - protecting your skin off the back of Palestinian suffering
39 Monmouth Street, Covent Garden, London, WC21T 9DD

Veolia: building a tramline in occupied territory in East Jerusalem
Need to add in contact details

Starbucks: The head of Starbucks, Howard Shultz is an active Zionist and has been recognized by the government of Israel as key for promoting the alliance between the United States and Israel. It has been reported that a percentage of Starbucks profits go directly to the Israeli government.

Boycott, shut-down, graffiti, disrupt - whatever - Gaza needs our solidarity

TAKE ACTION NOW…

Please add other appropriate targets

trouble maker

Additions

supermarkets that stock goods from illegal settlements

13.01.2009 16:50

Waitrose, Tesco, Sainsburys and Marks and Spencers also stock goods from illegal settlements.
Veolia, are building a tramline, to be constructed on occupied territory in East Jerusalem, not sure of UK addresses.


firestarter

Boycott Israeli Goods

13.01.2009 16:55

Heckler & Koch
Nottingham:
 http://www.indymedia.org.uk/img/extlink.gif
 http://nottsantimilitarism.wordpress.com/

All major UK stores sell Israeli goods. You can contact them to tell them not to stock Israeli produce… picket them…join actions against them…

Sainsburys sell a large range of Israeli products including Israeli potatoes, oranges, grapefruits, avocadoes, strawberries and wine. Sainsburys say the store is not a political organisation and do not boycott products from any country. They do say that 'ethical trading is a growing area of concern for our company and consumers' and have an ethical trading policy — they do not, however, acknowledge that ethical trading concerns would extend to the sale of goods from an apartheid regime sold on occupied land. Write to Sainsbury's Head Office at Stamford House, Stamford Street, London, SE1 9LL or call them on 02076956000

Tesco sell a number of Israeli products at their UK stores, including Israeli/settlement produce supplied to them by Carmel/Agrexco. Write to Tesco Head Office at Baird Avenue, Dundee, DD1 9NS
or call them on 0800 50 55 55

Waitrose Doncastle Road, Bracknell, Berkshire, RG12 8YA. tel 02075926288 fax 02075925699 e-mail:  CSR@johnlewis.co.uk[
or write to your local store.

Marks & Spencer, Waterside House, 35 North Wharf Road, London W2 1NW

Z
- Homepage: http://www.indymedia.org.uk/img/extlink.gif http://www.stoparmingisrael.org/info/companies.php

Veolia

13.01.2009 17:13

Find your nearest one:  http://www.veolia.co.uk
In England they run lots of the recycling collections.

Veolia's involvement in the tramway project in East Jerusalem has led to international protests. The Irish tramline company Luas, run by Veolia, was forced by the Ireland-Palestine Solidarity Campaign to cancel its contract with Israeli authorities in Jerusalem. Amnesty International France has requested Veolia not to sign the contract because it raises serious questions about international law violations.
More info from
 http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article5723.shtml





Lily

SUpermarket goods

13.01.2009 18:26

Is there any way to tell which goods in those supermarkets come from the occupied territories? I know quite a few people who are happy to boycott a specific product but wouldn't go as far as boycotting an entire supermarket chain. Besides, in some areas, the large chains are the only shops available.

I've looked around but can't find anything and the supermarkets don't exactly advertise the fact. They'll draw attention to it if it's a British product, but "Come and buy our murder oranges!" isn't a great slogan to bring people in to your shop.

...unless you're clientele consists entirely of 14yr old goths.

MonkeyBot 5000

Coincedence?

14.01.2009 14:59

 http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2008/02/13/vancouver-blast.html

___

Starbucks deny Israeli connection

 http://yalibnan.com/site/archives/2009/01/protesters_clos.php

Pyro

Comments

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Hidden Comment

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IMC UK is an interactive site offering inclusive participation. All postings to the open publishing newswire are the responsibility of the individual authors and not of IMC UK. Although IMC UK volunteers attempt to ensure accuracy of the newswire, they take no responsibility legal or otherwise for the contents of the open publishing site. Mention of external web sites or services is for information purposes only and constitutes neither an endorsement nor a recommendation.

Kristallnacht 2009

13.01.2009 16:52

Ah yes, smashing and burning Jewish businesses - now what does that remind me of?

Anti-semitism watch
- Homepage: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristallnacht

i'm really surprised this has been promoted

13.01.2009 17:25

did the IMC moderators check to see if any of the upstairs or adjacent properties were occupied? if not then praising someone for setting fire to buildings maybe occupied by sleeping families and kids isn't very clever at all. smash such shops up by all means but arson is just too uncontrollable, reckless and a step too far.

be very careful

Boycott Boycott

13.01.2009 18:35

It has been mentioned before but here it is again.

One effective method is to go to your Tesco, Asda etc etc and get the largest trolley available. Fill it with Israeli products preferably small items the better. Fill the trolley to the top. Place a simple piece of paper which says "I was gonna buy these goods until I realised they are from stolen Palestinian lands and using slave Palestianian labour. Stop the Gaza massacre!" or words to that effect. Then leave it an aisle and walk out of the shop.

There no confrontations with any one required.

Come on we should have groups of 10 people per supermarket. Pretty soon the managers will stop refilling the shelves with zionist goods!

DO something BIG! Boycott Israeli Goods(BIG)!

Really not much to ask for the massacre these zionist bests are doing in GAZA.

Free Gaza Free Palestine

The Law of Return MUST apply to Palestinians. They must be able to return to their land and if not possible then alternative LAND PLUS COMPENSATION! NO NEGOTIATION ON THIS.


Protestor

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erm...or not...

13.01.2009 19:10

'One effective method is to go to your Tesco, Asda etc etc and get the largest trolley available. Fill it with Israeli products preferably small items the better. Fill the trolley to the top. Place a simple piece of paper which says "I was gonna buy these goods until I realised they are from stolen Palestinian lands and using slave Palestianian labour. Stop the Gaza massacre!" or words to that effect. Then leave it an aisle and walk out of the shop.

There no confrontations with any one required.

Come on we should have groups of 10 people per supermarket. Pretty soon the managers will stop refilling the shelves with zionist goods! '

- No they won't. They'll tell the school kid working for a piss poor wage to go and put it back out on the shelves, be in a bad mood and probably take that bad mood out on the other workers. The floor manager will be annoyed, the general worker will be the one having to re-shelf everything, and the people who actually decide what products get bought probably won't even hear about it.

That's one of the most retarded ideas I've ever heard.

Ae

re: i'm really surprised this has been promoted

13.01.2009 21:11

Who says this has been "promoted" or "praised" by Indymedia?

It's news, it has happened, so a supporter of Indymedia reports it. I don't see any editorialising by the people who run Indymedia.

@non

THIS is anti-militarism?

13.01.2009 22:10

So throwing a petrol bomb into a (thankfully empty, this time) coffee shop is now an act of "anti-militarism"? Ugh.

Not in my name.

Outsider

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IMC UK is an interactive site offering inclusive participation. All postings to the open publishing newswire are the responsibility of the individual authors and not of IMC UK. Although IMC UK volunteers attempt to ensure accuracy of the newswire, they take no responsibility legal or otherwise for the contents of the open publishing site. Mention of external web sites or services is for information purposes only and constitutes neither an endorsement nor a recommendation.

Oh well the police got a lead, this tread...

13.01.2009 22:20

Oh well the police got a lead, this tread... hmmm was anyone living above the shop? What about the employees in the shop do they get paid for not working?

loppy

Bigger bangs for the 'Bucks

14.01.2009 06:51

Outsider, the phrase 'not in my name' really doesn't mean anything when you use a pseudonym.
Would you feel better if the perpetrators issued an apology in the style of the Israelis?

"We strongly condemn the Zionists for hiding in civilian areas and using innocent cups of arabic coffee as human shields. In this instance one of our patrols came under fire from the vicinity of Starbucks and returned fire in self-defence. A stray molotov cocktail may have went awry due to a faulty guidance system but these things happen in war and this was a purely defensive measure. We have evidence that this was not an innocent civilian target but a fundraising front organistation for the Zionist terrorists"

SkinnyLatte

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say what u mean

14.01.2009 08:07

" Zionist owned"
c'mon why don't you say it out loud. You know you really want to.
what you really mean is... JEW OWNED!
why be so bashfull?
perhaps you have illusions that you are some sort of lefty. But surely its more helpful to just admit that you are an anti semite.

darren

KKKoffee

14.01.2009 09:52

I dream of the day I wake up to the sight of banks and multinationals burning the world throughout and no matter how hard I try to listen out, there will not be one voice airing grief as if another Gaza has been committed. These are dead structures and they are taking us down with them. And incase you havent been informed, they exist purely because they can take advantage of people whose lives are deemed expendable in our society. Your anti militarism sounds more like apathy to me. Anti Everything.

that's not (in) my name

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IMC UK is an interactive site offering inclusive participation. All postings to the open publishing newswire are the responsibility of the individual authors and not of IMC UK. Although IMC UK volunteers attempt to ensure accuracy of the newswire, they take no responsibility legal or otherwise for the contents of the open publishing site. Mention of external web sites or services is for information purposes only and constitutes neither an endorsement nor a recommendation.

Person suffering from minor burns

14.01.2009 10:26

I heard than an employee trap in the back of the shop was hurt but lucky to get out the fire door, it turned out to be a guy dosing in the place. Suffering from minor burns but will be o.k. cheers peeps!

David

Nice One

14.01.2009 12:35

You see the zionists don't like it when the same bullshit they churn out is directed back at them!

At Skinny Latte

Sheer stupidity

14.01.2009 13:27

Arson isn't activism, it's brainless.

Apart from the fact there is no way you can know that you are not endangering anyone, even a structural failure or explosion/conflagration could kill a fireman or just passers by, but simply making a fire crew unavailable to others could kill someone!

In this case, it appears that the shop was indeed occupied:

 http://www.eastlondonadvertiser.co.uk/content/towerhamlets/advertiser/news/story.aspx?brand=ELAOnline&category=news&tBrand=northlondon24&tCategory=newsela&itemid=WeED13%20Jan%202009%2020%3A43%3A18%3A030

You'll note that the racist graffiti and violent attacks (if they are connected) do not help.

This is the kind of moronic action that ranks up there with releasing mink into the British countryside for playing right into the hands of the right-wing media.

Smash the place to pulp for all I care, but just don't abuse the emergency services or endanger innocent people, pretty please!

Pyro

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the oldest hatred

14.01.2009 14:46

Graffiti like 'Kill the jews ' is anti-semitism pure and simple, and its happening right across Europe and beyond, here, to read the left, anarchist, etc, making excuses for it is shameful, particulalry when the Freedom Bookshop is nearby and the area was once Moseleys stomping ground, ,

Will the Whitechapel Anarchist group be having a march against it?

I won't hold my breath

history tells us things....

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IMC UK is an interactive site offering inclusive participation. All postings to the open publishing newswire are the responsibility of the individual authors and not of IMC UK. Although IMC UK volunteers attempt to ensure accuracy of the newswire, they take no responsibility legal or otherwise for the contents of the open publishing site. Mention of external web sites or services is for information purposes only and constitutes neither an endorsement nor a recommendation.

anti-semetism cannot be ignored

14.01.2009 16:04

Whay are my comments being deleted?

history tells us things....

Hidden Comment

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IMC UK is an interactive site offering inclusive participation. All postings to the open publishing newswire are the responsibility of the individual authors and not of IMC UK. Although IMC UK volunteers attempt to ensure accuracy of the newswire, they take no responsibility legal or otherwise for the contents of the open publishing site. Mention of external web sites or services is for information purposes only and constitutes neither an endorsement nor a recommendation.

Boycott Indymedia. It's a hate site.

14.01.2009 20:59

This website should now be boycotted if not actively attacked as it is turning into a front for neo-nazis and their friends.

 http://www.eastlondonadvertiser.co.uk/content/towerhamlets/advertiser/news/story.aspx?brand=ELAOnline&category=news&tBrand=northlondon24&tCategory=newsela&itemid=WeED13%20Jan%202009%2020%3A43%3A18%3A030

 http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23618498-details/Starbucks+is+firebombed+%27in+protest+against+Israel%27/article.do

ciderdrinker

re: Sheer stupidity

14.01.2009 22:57

I don't think you should dismiss arson as a tactic in general.

It has its risks, sure, but you also might run some over and kill them just driving to a demonstration. If you take reasonable precautions, it should be as safe as many other normal activities. Animal rights and environmental activists have used arson as a tactic for years without causing harm to anyone.

I can't comment on this particular incident, as I don't know the full details.

And regarding the mink releases: they were the final straw that wiped out the fur farms in this country by pushing the government to ban fur farming. Don't believe the establishment hype about them attacking babies and wiping out wildlife, they will spread out and form their own territories, and find their niche in the ecosystem.

@non

not anti-semitic

14.01.2009 23:50

In response to the hidden post (which doesn't accept comments) that suggested that the boycott of Starbucks is an anti-semetic act:

Starbucks zionist connections are well documented as are its support for the so called "war on terror". It deserves to be the target of boycotts.

Boycott Starbucks
 http://www.inminds.co.uk/boycott-starbucks.html

Starbucks at Guantanamo
 http://www.inminds.co.uk/article.php?id=10228

When Israel describes itself as the Jewish State whose citizenship is the birth right of every jew born anywhere in the world; when leader (Olmert) in a speech outside of Israel declares the attack on Lebanon was "a war fought by ALL the Jews" and received a standing ovation by his non-israeli Jewish audience; when the Board of Deputies of British Jews who claim to be "the voice of British Jewry" hold a rally in support of Israel whilst Israel is massacring children in Gaza, then its hardly surprising that some people believe them and draw the (incorrect) connection between all Jews and what is happening in Gaza. This is not an indication of anti-semitism but rather of being duped by zionist lies. Yes we have to work at dispelling these lies, the best way I've seen is the Jewish participation in these demos against Israel and in the boycott campaigns. In particular the Neturei Karta must be congratulated for their work in the Muslim community:

Rabbi burns Israeli passport at London demo:

 http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fiSP076_nVI

clarify

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The British Left in Wartime

15.01.2009 00:05

Don't we all dream of the day when the Polish and Chinese girls in our local coffee shop are burnt to death in a glorious Night of Broken Glass? Truly, our revolution is our hand. The unbelievers, the swine, will be washed into the sea.

Christoph
mail e-mail: Chris@ballbearing.com

Hidden Comment

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Homo-Inferior

15.01.2009 00:25

"Don't we all dream of the day when the Polish and Chinese girls in our local coffee shop are burnt to death in a glorious Night of Broken Glass?"

No, that's just you. And to be honest, in your fantasies they aren't Polish or Chinese, they are arabic 'two-legged beasts'. Thouugh from your point of view I can see why you see them as equivalent. Homo-Inferior. Are you saying let's kill the non-Jew - yes you are. Yes you are., yes you are. I have to ask what is it like to be an impotent chronic masturbator without a foreskin ?

Please don't make Nazism credible.

Daniel

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How disgraceful

15.01.2009 01:24

There is something sick about this. The Nazis used this method of boycotting Jewish owned businesses in the 1930s. Daubing the Star of David on shops and smashing them up? What kind of politics do you people on Indymedia follow? Sick, Sick, Sick. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

Mikey

@non

15.01.2009 09:38

Now there is pure comedy for you: a statistical response to a moral dilemma of responsibility. I trust you are a heavy smoker and drinker too- since they are booth safer than crossing roads. Perhaps instead of driving to a demo we should smoke whilst walking and that will cancel out the risk of crossing the road? Actually, heroin is even safer than cigarettes... or can we cumulatively offset risk like Carbon Trading schemes?

The only reasonable precautions to take in setting a building on fire that would reasonably diminish harming innocent people would be:

1. Securing for a necessary period of time a perimeter around the target that would be a safe distance for bystanders and to prevent anyone entering that area. You would already have detailed analysis of what was contained in the building and its neighbours to use for this.

2. Sweeping through the area within to ensure that there was no one still in there.

3. Providing fire (and medic) crews that would step into the shoes of the ones you have tied up.

Anything short of that level of care is kidding yourself on that give a damn about innocent lives.

Oh and you can add to that list 'a good stack of books to read whilst doing your time for manslaughter should anyone die as a result of your actions'.

But once you get to that level of precaution is stops being arson and becomes a rudimentary controlled demolition. As with arson, setting the fire and running away is usually how it is done.

And thanks too for flagging up to us all that you understanding of ecology is of an equally lacking standard of consideration.

 http://www.ncl.ac.uk/clsm/research/invasive_species/invasive.htm

Pyro

burning their empty cafes isnt a good idea when 99.9% of public dont know Starbu

15.01.2009 10:19

ucks gives %profit to Israeli genocide& ethnic cleansing & it could make matters worse for everyone. Go work for Starbucks &"accidently" be a really bad employee, be subtle actions like this do not help the cause.
UK needs to disallow UK jews from going to murder in Israel IDF legally+ a full embargo& a international force as multinational as possible in mediterrean sea off Israel would gaurantee a stop.
If you bank at Lloyds close your account as they are freezing palestinian funds, Veolia run afew bus companies in UK jointly with city councils. We have to educate people& make em laugh as well as stand up & fight for human rights law.
Is there somekind of fuel additive essential to Israeli war effort like tetrahydle lead was to nazi german war effort, supplied by Rockefellers standard, now esso & mobil oil. The luftwaffe couldnt fly without it apparently.
The arms 3,000 tonne arms shipment seems key, coming from the USA, Greek activists are working on the shipping, London is where the ship broking happened, but Greece seems key as it has a large US arms depot there too. Theres a chance a early day motion on stopping arms to Israel could effect this & it would effect Israel generally, but as its a USA arms shipment & timewise my hopes on that are on Greece.
As far as burning empty banks etc, be nice if it was that simple, personally I'd much rather see banks democratically taken & turned in community centres dealing in parecons, if some banks go unlawfully resist real democracy & laws on this concerned citizens would be able to act proportionately& each community could use there local bank for whatever they want.

Kelly

Trainspotting -> FightClub

15.01.2009 11:21

"Go work for Starbucks &"accidently" be a really bad employee, be subtle actions like this do not help the cause."

Nah, I tried that and kept getting promoted. You get promoted for socialiing as much as being good at your job. Plus it is really frustrating to do bad work daily even in a good cause when noone knows except you.

Still, the best way for an anti-Starbucks employee, or anti-MacDonalds for that matter, to close their employer is to stick their finger up their arse and then rub into into the produce. Instant E-Coli.

Chuck Palniuk

Interesting

15.01.2009 11:57

Funny. I once did start writing a novel about a bunch of kids who got sick of shit jobs and started infiltrating chain restaurants and giving people e.coli and and contracting it themselves and suing the companies and sticking the awards in a big pot; others whistle blowing etc... You get the picture.

There was not much joy in writing about 3 weeks of copious vomiting, diarrhoea and cramps. Let alone expecting anyone to read it.

But the serious point this topic all implies: the one thing corporates fear the most is REPUTATIONAL DAMAGE. It's why the spend so much on PR/Image/lies.

So 99% of consumers may not that Starbucks is an evil corporate entity: so educate them!

If attacking their furniture iss a hiding to nothing (other than self-righteous relief) then kick them where it REALLY hurts... What do you think McLibel was all about?

And as has been suggested here, you can 'engineer a new truth' that the public will respond to from within. There are fewer institutions as wide open to infiltration (with such a high staff turnover) than chain restaurants.

Don't recommend e.coli though. It is potentially fatal in infants & the infirm.

But spreading the rumour isn't fatal...

Pyro

starbucks - the facts

15.01.2009 16:37

starbucks isn't owned by howard schultz its a PLC

starbucks has no (current) israeli commercial interests

there are plenty of companies who do - tesco, just because of its size, probably sells the most israeli produce (remember - camel agrexco is 50% owned by the Israeli state)

the body shop is owned by L'oreal who have extensive israeli interests - and they still trade on their (false) ethical reputation.

protestor

The OTHER Facts

15.01.2009 17:19

 http://www.inminds.co.uk/boycott-starbucks.html

Even Snopes sees fit to link to this rather than reject it out of hand.

 http://www.snopes.com/politics/israel/schultz.asp

Pyro

What if it was you working late one night?

15.01.2009 18:38

It is wrong to use firebombs against shops that may (and in this case were) occupied by a person in the office at the back of the shop. It is wrong to use fire in any circumstances where it may injure or kill people (and in a row of shops, fire can spread. People live above shops, often in rented accomodation). You can't assume that people who work in supermarkets/coffee shops etc are Zionists and you have no moral right to put their lives at risk because people are dying in Gaza. I am horrified by the deaths of people in Gaza. Honestly, I am not a Zionist trying to troll, But you are using a tactic where people whose 'crime' is no more than working for an employer could be seriously injured or die. Smash windows by all means, you are hurting property. Don't use tactics that could kill you or me, working late at night in a back room in a shop or supermarket. Most of us are ordinary people, working long hours in shit jobs.

heather

re: Pyro - maybe you misunderstood my point.

15.01.2009 20:48

response to Pyro's post titled "@non":

I think you may have misunderstood my point.

If you see a wrong being committed, there are many actions you can take to attempt to right it. Arson is one option, having a peaceful demonstration is another. Sometimes either one of them will be more effective than the other.

The point is that both of them have risks. Driving round the country in minibuses attending peaceful demonstrations has its risks as does burning things down. No action you take is without risk. You just have to balance up whether the small risk of a negative outcome outweighs the good that will come of the action.

Animal rights and environmental activists have set thousands of fires over the years and as far as I know, no person has ever been directly harmed by them, so they must be pretty low-risk.

Firefighters are instructed to never risk themselves unless it is to save lives, and activists are always careful not to put lives at risk.

Firebombing occupied buildings is a totally different thing, but I'm not talking about this. You are suggesting a blanket opposition to arson, I am saying don't dismiss it totally, it can be a very effective and relatively safe tool.

@non

@non

15.01.2009 22:36

Even if all that were so.. which I still disagree... you still haven't solved the 'taking one or several fire crews out of commission and endangering lives through that demand on resources' angle. And the only way can avoid that scenario is by not setting fires!

Besides, fire is a pretty rotten way to achieve anything:

1. Is is one big dose of poisons into the environment.

2. It is wasteful of natural resources.

3. You'll get hammered in court if you get caught.

4. It is very unpredictable/difficult to control and prone to spread (and can spread very quickly in the right/wrong circumstances.

5. It is potentially lethal.

Even sledgehammers or flooding make more sense.

Pyro

re: Pyro

16.01.2009 00:16

You make some good points, and they should be taken into consideration, but I don't see them as showstoppers.

> 1. Is is one big dose of poisons into the environment.

Can be true, but what if the target releases much more poisons every day or does something else that is very bad and the arson shuts it down? There's a saying: you can't clean up shit without getting your hands dirty. You just have to weigh up whether the benefit outweighs the downsides. I could easily think of situations where this would be the case.

Imagine thousands of people travelling to a peaceful demonstration. What about all the pollution and poisons put into the air by that? A single person committing an act of arson could have a much lower environmental impact.

> 2. It is wasteful of natural resources.

Not sure exactly what you mean, but the same arguments as in part 1 apply.

> 3. You'll get hammered in court if you get caught.

Very true, and this is a good argument for thinking very carefully before doing it. But many people have done it and got away with it. Those who haven't were either unlucky, careless, very prolific, or subject to heavy police surveillance.

> 4. It is very unpredictable/difficult to control and prone to spread (and can spread very quickly in the right/wrong circumstances.

Can be true, but equally it could be an isolated building or vehicle where the risk of fire spreading is minimal. I haven't heard of this being a problem in practice. Most if not all activist arsons have destroyed their target and nothing else.

> 5. It is potentially lethal.

So are many things. My previous comments about risk assessment apply.

@non

Risk and anger management

16.01.2009 01:13

Even a sit down protest carries risk, stopping ambulances et al. The question is not just how to act minimising risk here, but how to act effectively to save lives in Gaza.

Given the atrocities of the past weeks I for one am prepared to die opposing that, and worse, I am prepared to risk the lives of those who support this kiddy-cide.

If you work at Starbucks, Tesco or worse, then resign and remove yourself from the line of fire because a new war has been initiated and you are a legitimate target.

Cheries Bum

My last words before we get stuck ina loop

16.01.2009 11:01

@non: well, I obviously beg to differ, in the instance of setting fire to a Starbucks. Burning down the head offices of an Amazon logging company in an action that would stop the company from function WOULD offset the toxicity of the action. Chucking a badly made petrol bomb into a Starbucks, wouldn't.

Loss of control is still the major risk with using fire, and the problem of endangering innocent people through denying them access to emergency services is insurmountable without having resources beyond the scope of most activists.

Cheries Bum: Well to be fair you can't hold people directly accountable until they have been educated in how they are accountable. Most people working for these companies are totally ignorant of what they are contributing to. Not complacent or apathetic but they really just do not know. And I am sure some of them, just like has happened at places like EDO, would jump ship as soon as they found out.

Educate people!

Pyro

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