I'm sure policemen unfortunate enough to be on imc watch duty realise that people who say things like" one day you will also be torched alive" are clearly disturbed and in no way reflect the peaceful majority. No reason for imc to let this post stand though; hate filled spew should be confined to Stormfront.

Well done, "Mohawk". Honestly, where do you get on? And don't try and point out that the "pigs" (grow up) can be violent and unpleasant - so can you, obviously. Ever heard the phrase "two wrongs don't make a right"? PS Watched a bit of the video; a poster below is right when he says that the cameraman seems to want trouble. This is a sorry aspect of some "activist journalism"; amateurs getting all over excited at the voyeuristic thought of filming violence. Not quite the steady, solemn hand of (great photographer) Tash, is it?

The cameraman's a complete tit, an embarassment to 'citizen journalism'

I mean the police oppression was worse than Genoa, not the journalism which was superlative. In Genoa that is. I'll shut up now.

How was the oppression worse than Diaz? I saw no initial footage of a few anxious looking policemen politely requesting people to take off their masks at the Diaz school. The Genoa police stormed the place and kicked the shit/beat the blood out of everyone in sight.

More generally (not at sstaph) don't tell me that a protest like the Dalston one didn't contain people who were expecting/wanting violence. Even the cameraman sounds like he wants to dish it out. And read the gleeful "anti-filth" comments on the Youtube page. They sound like they're posted by a bunch of violent fascists/racists and I'm ashamed of imc for linking to them. Substitute anyone else for the police and people would be screaming, but it seems to be OK to indulge sick comments if they're said by someone claiming to be on "your side".

With people like that in your ranks I advise protestors not to come crying when the next Dalston protest becomes a kicking ground for the police; unless you seriously expect them to just stand there and take everything that's thrown at them. It's funny because you kind of do; which shows a trusting faith in the police's rightful role, but would you admit that? Never.

It seems that the well meaning liberal left are in danger of being led by the nose by a bunch of thugs. I worry.

was there when this happened. Looks worse than it was, provocation, stand off, scuffle, the usual thing.

Interestingly after this the police made no effort to remove masks in the pen, despite people obviously flouting of the section 60 order. What that signifies i'll leave to the sterling keyboard warriors above to muse over.

I express what I feel and my deepest desire of being these mercenaries shiting bricks such as their peers in Greece are doing now. I am not going to apologise for saying what my passion and outrage in the moment made me and is making me feel.

On the other hand if you think that such a "negative" feeling make me inmediately into a "distrubed" person, a nut or something of the kind, may be you should think twice about which side of the barricade you are in. Labeling and psychiatrizing others makes you smell a little bit of an insulting bastard.

Just for the record I will also tell you that I do not fall into the category of those who masturbate in front of bombs, fire and guns and so I am happy that now in Greece more other things appart from violence are happening non-stop.

What you fucking pacifist scum can no longer take is the living proof that the use of violence, if done appropiately can bring out results and turn an entire country upside down.

Sorry to tell you Doctor, but without flames and riots along with the initial impulse of the most militant anarchist and antiauthoritarian groups nothing would have happened in Greece.

Face it and cut the crap once and for all.

You are no one to moralise and give lessons.

"What it signifies?" I'll tell you what it signifies: the fascist pigs behaved worse than Hitler's NAZIS that's what.
- Forcing that masked-up bloke to stand in an area with slip hazards and draughts.
- Calling our heroic journalist 'Mate' which is clear harassment, when 'Sir' would have been so much better. Back to the golden age of deference I say.
- Wearing those really irritating little specs, and refusing to give a lairy stranger their home address.
NAZI BASTARD PIG FASCISTS. And you lot are all MIDDLE CLASS WANKERS.
That's better.

While i think that the OP's comments about torching coppers alive is both misguided and probably down to that persons frustrations and greivances with the police i also think that the liberal's whinging about how we need to all be nice to the police are even more deluded.

The police aren't a race or people, expressing your disdain with the police and their role in maintaining a class society is not tantamount to attacking sending Gypsies and Jews to gas chambers.

I expect the same people who complain about the police getting a bit of verbal are the ones who feel sorry for the fascists when people confront them on the street.

Every time a demo is held anarchists get stopped and searched under section 60, demosntrators are constantly filmed, their details registered and added to police files in order that their movements can be monitored. This is standard practice and it quite rightly grates a lot of people. Just wait till next year, with the standard issue of tasers i expect we'll see anarchists getting tasred to the ground for not removing a mask or not keeping their hands by their sides.

While i think people can get carried away and often waste a lot of energy is trying to wind up the police i acknowledge that the police are the true wind up merchants when it comes to trying to cause disruption to a perfectly peaceful demonstration.

While i think that the OP's comments about torching coppers alive is both misguided and probably down to that persons frustrations and greivances with the police i also think that the liberal's whinging about how we need to all be nice to the police are even more deluded.

The police aren't a race or people, expressing your disdain with the police and their role in maintaining a class society is not tantamount to sending Gypsies and Jews to gas chambers.

I expect the same people who complain about the police getting a bit of verbal are the ones who feel sorry for the fascists when people confront them on the street.

Every time a demo is held anarchists get stopped and searched under section 60, demosntrators are constantly filmed, their details registered and added to police files in order that their movements can be monitored. This is standard practice and it quite rightly grates a lot of people. Just wait till next year, with the standard issue of tasers i expect we'll see anarchists getting tasred to the ground for not removing a mask or not keeping their hands by their sides.

While i think people can get carried away and often waste a lot of energy trying to wind up the police i acknowledge that the police are the true wind up merchants when it comes to trying to cause disruption to a perfectly peaceful demonstration.

Calling for people to be torched alive is "misguided"?

No-one said anyone has to be "nice" to anyone. How about: straightforward, honest, brave, and in (self) control?

I am proud of the people in my area who stood up to the Blackshirts and then to the NF. I do not feel sorry for "fascists" - they sign up to an openly racist and violent agenda. The Police do not. On the contrary they are sworn to uphold the law, keep the peace, and avoid any kind of discrimination.

THE POLICE AND THE BNP ARE NOT THE SAME. Some policemen may be BNP members but is currently illegal.

Still, if posters like Mohawk carry on you'll have terrorised all the decent police out (everyone knows there are decent police, don't bother) and the BNP ones will take over.

And then both sets of thugs can happily beat each other to death, or torch each other, or whatever.

Bad news for people who get burgled or arrested though.

In the meantime it's "nice" how the people who indulgently see both sides and are happy to discuss being vicious and brutal, are backing up the "fucking pacifists, fucking filth" style ones. Do you really think that someone who's talking like that wouldn't add "fucking gypsies" if they weren't watching their words on imc? I fear you are naive.

Greece? Fine. Solidarity. Needed.
But what about the de Menez whitewash? In August yet another kid was killed by Brixton police. I read about him while we remembered Ricky Bishop and Derek Bennett.. Both executed by the same force. How many people have British cops killed? A couple of thousand?
How many cops have been prosecuted? Come on all you liberals.Have a guess!
None.
Well, maybe one a very long time ago. That's it.
Try being a black kid in Brixton. Try being one of their parents. Try fighting for court justice
for years. And getting nowhere.
Then come back to me and talk about coppers being ok really.
No Justice, No Peace

No, Paddy, don't guess - you tell us. How many people have been killed in police custody over - say - the last ten years? As many as people who smoke rollies? Kick the shit out of Golcden Virginia staff, I say.

The police are meant to be good, This is why a death in police custody is always a death too many. And always should be questioned by the judicial system. That is what people have fought (peaceably) for. That keeping the peace is what the police are now part of.

People who want to be violent, because they feel violent, and that's all the justification needed, listen. We have evolved a better way than beating the blood out of each other. It is called "having a pint and talking about it".

'A'. I don't know you. But i've seen you. You are everywhere in the UK. It's not your fault as you live in a place where every single mechanism, even those claiming to be humanitarian, no-governmental, unbiased, and left wing, cover up or ignore the crimes commited by the state and their pimps. You claim all police aren't the same. Well I beg to differ. Any wrongdoing within police infastructure and they'll all become a part of it, either by directly committing the offence, or passively ignoring it. A couple of months ago 2000 people marched in London (You guessed it; the majority of whom were minority groups) protesting the deaths of healthy family members in police custody. (what the IPCC called 'death under suspicious circumstances) We all saw what happened to the June 'Smash EDO' protest, where police decided to test the toys kindly provided to them by the state on the protesters. In fact, the UK (despite its non-existant origanised movements) is officialy the worst place in Europe to stage a protest, as the police are given absurd powers over the protesters, humiliating them, snatching them, and, arresting them on bear suspicion of willingness to commit a 'crime' at every chance they get. This is an organisation who shoots an innocent man 7 times in the head. Lies about the dead mans every action prior to the shooting (a dead man cant dispute this) and are caught out by the same equipment they placed to have complete control over the city (CCTV). THey then shamelessly continue to throw irrelevant dirt on the dead mans grave y claiming expired visas and drug addiction (therefore 1 less criminal on the streets of london) and top it all off by (badly) photoshopping his pic to look more like the original suspects pic. Out of all this, how many PIGS were charged? None! How many PIGS protested the actions of their colleagues? None! And this goes on time and time again. I dont know if u gots any relatives who work for the police but if you do I can only say I'm sorry to hear that. As for Mohawk's comments on torching the PIGS, i wouldn't shed a tear for a dead copper. Their life means nothing to me.

It's strange how many cop-lovers we have posting here.

I can only assume they are young and naive and haven't yet faced the full onslaught of police oppression. Believe me, if/when it happens, you too will wish the worst things imaginable on the unpleasant people that make up our police force.

It's a nasty job which attracts nasty people.

If you are tired of the police constantly being in your face, you can undertake more direct actions in small groups when they aren't expecting it, under the cover of darkness for example.

Public demos are great for public shows of solidarity but don't expect to remain anonymous or unmolested.

Fascinating to see such blood lust dressed up in such fancy speech. Thank you, previous two posters. Now we know you have a basic understanding of politics and the way the "state" works you can carry on with your violent fantasies in peace.

Deaths in custody are appalling. They are not supposed to happen. I think it is good that you suggest that the very police you dehumanise and threaten should have come out against the people responsible. Of course they should. But then you agree that not all of them would kill people in custody, or want to. You'll be saying that they are individuals and people next.

Ever thought that one of the reasons police don't act against the violent police in their midst is that they are - er violent? I'm sure the police have their share of violent thugs too. No excuse, but it's easy to be scared by a violent bully, don't you think?

It's also quite common to feel frightened and bullied by the system itself. Unfortunately, violence is not a clever answer to violence. It generates more violence for a start. I would seriously advise you to take up some strenuous physical work (care work?) to get rid of all that aggression. Or perhaps a girlfriend? Some tender love and care, and you might be less inclined to rant like crazy people. Maybe start a campaign getting policemen to sign up against deaths in custody and violence, why not?

PS On the other hand "cop lover" is such a tired phrase, it makes me wonder if the posters are actually masochistic/violent policemen? The joys of the internet....

Were now edging nearer and nearer rendering this 'discussion' useless. To you 'A' all i can say is that I don't believe you understand the role police play in our society. It is the same role anyone who serves a group of thugs (the state) and is given weapons to do so would play. The police as an organisation is inherently corrupt and violent when it comes to facing a group of people who wish to act autonomously and not recognise their 'ties' and 'dependence' on the capitalist infastructure. This is why you will always see them de-humanise and threaten protesters, squatters, and anti capitalist organisations. Unfortunately they have even made most people in the UK accept that it is no longer their right to protest if the protest is not first approved by the police and so long as it undergoes police procedure first. (on the pavement rather than the streets, allowing police to stop and search whoever they feel is 'dodgy', allowing for the police to photograph who they like, and to snatch who htey like at any random point in time without any evidence) Every single policeman/woman is aware that when they are sent over to a weapons factory (which produced part of the cluster bombs used by Israel ot slaughter lebanese/Palestinian civilians) that they are just following orders and willingly agree to protect these murderous institutions at the expense both of the protesters (smash EDO have suffered constant harrassement and intimidation at the hands of police) and the people who will suffer as a result of the use of these weapons. No petitions to the police or nice fireside chats over a pint will ever alter their role in society, They serve state orders, who serves the capitalist infastructure. They are all moraly responsible for all the corruption within their institution and should either quit as a result or accept that they do not have a problem with their role. In the meantime people will continue to die physically and mentally due to police actions. Don't expect some of us to view this scum as human.

I don't think there's any question that when it suits the state policemen are encouraged to behave with brutality; that the justice system is often corrupt and supporting this, that individual police are therefore not being held to account, that their power is increasing, that the government they serve - it should be the people, of course, but this government is no longer serving the people - is increasingly turning to the violent and/or resentful right wing to keep itself in power. So what's to discuss? Apart from what to do about it, of course.

And I'm sorry, but even if I fully agreed with your violent resentment, I can't see how the minority of you (you are in the minority) will ever win through violence. This is what is so strange about the "black bloc" - their insistance that their violence is the answer when actually it's only being tolerated as long as it's fairly useless. You're just upping the ante for everyone else and paying your own two cents into the climate of fear. Because it makes you feel better, because you've chosen the violent route and that effectively makes you feel powerless. I understand. It just doesn't get anyone anywhere. Still, someone will use your violent energy, I'm sure.

Otherwise there's nothing much to be said about lines like "don't expect us to view these scum as human". I mean, there you have it. A total state of denial (they are human); a worrying use of the same dehumanising terms (scum) that the bigots always use, whether they're referring to "dole scroungers" or teenage gangs; and finally "they've been horrible so I can be horrible back" justification.

You're building it, you're living it.

Demeaning the actions of the black bloc and or any other organisation that symbolically-and I stress the word symbolically as no police figure has ever died as a result of anarchist attacks (same cannot be said for civillians killed from police attacks)-chooses to attack the police is the easy way out. parrots inside bbc headquarters sound more original than: "two wrongs don't make a right" "unchanelled rage" "police just doing a job" etc, etc. The truth is that attacks on these institutions (speaking to you from Greece) have contributed to some-albeit token-changes in the system. One example of this comes from Greek prison riots of November due to inhumane living conditions and mistreatment of prisoners (the UK had similar riots last year). These riots were supported by people throughout Greece who took to the streets protesting and often symbolically attacking police stations. Result. 3000 prisoners (that's one third of the Greek prison population) will be released before the year is out. The low level severity of their offence combined with their violent outburst and the solidarity demonstrated by the people on the streets has secured a better prospect for one third of the prison population at least. Following the riots and protests that we have participated in throughout december, there are now talks of disarming police. Sure the gestures from the state are token and our aim still remains to overthrow the state and economic system via popular rebellion but over the past two months, the rioting and protesting have spoilt some of the states plans and contributed positively. We suffer attacks on a daily basis. Whether in prison, or in society. We squat unused spaces and the cops are there to violently kick us out, people can't afford their mortgage and the cops are their to violently kick them out, people decide to protest about the unfairness of the system and-you guessed it- our pals from the bill are there to make sure its as low key as possible and lasts only for a short space of time. Deaths in custody are covered up, police brutality is covered up, minority groups are more fearful of police than members of their community. Stop and search, degradation, shootings, etc only demonstrate that those who choose to exist outside the work-consume cycle of life or even those who failed to integrate into it are attacked on a daily basis physically and mentally by the system and its upholders (PIGS). Violence against these institutions serves as a symbolism of self defence. And if you look at Greece there is (still) a solidarity network surrounding the actions of people you view as violent for the sake of violence; this network has and is allowing for some positive changes to take place, as the state and police are held accountable for their actions by people who have decided that freedom from oppression can only exist if we fight oppression directly. Perhaps this is a step that the UK needs to take. Solidarity networks and direct symbolic attacks on these oppressive and violent institutions, rather than mistakenly viewing violence against the state as pointless and preferring to hold silent vigils to honour the people who have suffered in the hands of these institutions.

This is not Greece. This is imc uk. This discussion is one the back of a video purporting to show police harassment, but which in fact starts with an anxious multi ethnic collection of policemen politely asking menacing balaclava clad figures to remove their masks. This is somehow being compared to Greece and Genoa. It has attracted the most violent and vicious of commentators, who seem to want to seize any excuse to urge, and indulge in, murderous thoughts about the "other".

You attempt, @, to provide a reasonable political rationale behind the cries of "torch them alive". I notice you now only refer to "symbolic" violence, and are seemingly proud of the fact that no police have ever been killed by anarchists. Why, in that case, are you not standing up to the bullying faction whose rationale is "kill the filth"? Or Pigs, or whatever your more sophisticated attempt at dehumanisation happens to be.

Acts of "symbolic violence" (towards property, I note) may have united people in Greece, but I am currently grateful for the fact that someone shouting "kill the pigs" here is unlikely to find anything but a small, if somewhat psychotic, following (in fact, at the Bush demo it was an undercover policeman shouting it). It is not an imaginative response, it is not a clever response, and it is not fair to leave people feeling that that is their only response. People who are willing to charge at police with such hatred may suit your political theory, @, but who, in fact, is using who?

FUKING STOP BITCHING ABOUT PEOPLE AND IF U REALLY BELIVE THAT WHAT HAPPEN IN GREECE IS FUCT UP GO TO THE STREETS AND RECLAIM YOUR BRAIN .....GET TOGHETER FEW FRIENDS AND SABOTAGE ..BETTER THAT BITCHING ABOUT PEOPLE IN THE INTERNET............STOP TALKING SHIT AND RECLAIM THE STREETS @NTI peace love and petrol bombs

You have a look at the video. It matters not what tone or linguistic approach they used. The result is the same. Section 60 means that they can intimidate and bully based merely on suspicion. They stripped the protester who in the end of course as is always the case had nothing on him. They arrested a man for running out of the enforced enclosed space that the police deemed was enough for the protest. Notice how the rest of the PIGS immediately block the cameraman's view of the arrest and the crowd that can see what's going on are screaming he's not resisting arrest. Why are they screaming that. Why are there 3 policemen on top of one protester who is not resisting arrest. Why are you so involved with pathetic cop sitcoms such as the bill rather than witness the realities of the police dept. You claim this isnt Greece. You're absolutely right. That's why the police in the UK live without fear of their actions/. That's why they can demonstrate their power (by law) in the most authorotarian manner and get away with it. That's why they can kill innocents, lie about it, and not worry about the consequences. I'd like to see a policeman with a camera at a protest in Greece. They'd be lynched. I'd like to see a snatch squad in Greece...they'd be lynched. I speak of symbolic violence as we realise that revolution involves a public majority. If and when we reach that stage, i pitty the PIGS who will be in uniform on the day.

@ you are one strange person. Yes, I watched the video again. Yes, I saw a skinny young kid thinking it's fun to dress up to look like a violent criminal - how shocking that people might think he was one. I saw several UNARMED police men and women containing a potentially violent action - potentially violent because of people like you, who espouse violence, presumably, or are you trying to say that the police/state should ignore you? I saw two policemen being taunted and jeered at by the most silly cameraman and keeping their calm. I saw three of them - again unarmed - arresting one person, but what's your point? Wrongful arrest?

And I now see people who are so far into their fantasy that this looks to them like Genoa. It doesn't make sense. It is also an insult to the people at the Diaz school, or anyone here (peaceful Trafalgar square protestors, evicted gypsies etc) who really has suffered from police violence.