Strange post, one is used to read fictious threats against BNP members in Indymedia with some Hello magazine style information about them more than real debate that can challenge their politics.

Probably out of frustation not being able to stop the BNP growing, which nobody who is real can now refuse to admit it is happening.

The reality is that the left does not have the balls to speak out against Muslims, they discriminate women, the vast majority of them make their own way of life in neighbourhoods where you are the foreigner and not them, and on top of that the British Government discriminates against English people who are white because they want 10% of X colour people with those jobs.

And the left says not a word fearful of being branded racist, so if speaking out against all this is racist so let's be it.

And the sad thing for you is that the voters of the BNP are mostly working class. You can delete this post, you can launch some threats you can post showbiz BNP news but the reality is not going to change any time soon. British people is fed up with multicuturalism it doesn't work, inmigrants should integrate and not be given taxpayer money to set up their own little Bangladesh in the UK.

Wait and see for the European elections.

There are those in the mainstream media & government who dont want to discuss the fact that their stories & policies help shift the blame & desperation people have for mainstream parties onto areas like immigration & racism. A few police&nurse members doesnt add any credibillity to a nazi party & never did, theres afew doctors on the list. The "doctors" on it appear to be qualified in politics& specialising in half baked doctoring of human rights not medicine.

Mark Watson gives too much respect to the BNP in his totally cut & pasted article which although it breaks indymedia guidelines I have taken the time to answer without reporting.
 http://www.minorityperspective.co.uk/?page=page18

The leaked list least doesnt point to desperation more than racism, it points to both. There are plenty of options that people can turn to from Greens to independents to action within their own communities besides the BNP. We shouldnt have any sympathy with anyone on this list & give them excuses for being what always was & still is a fascist party.
Many indymedia activists dont just go to peoples doors & listen to people when theres an election coming up they do it without gain on numerous issues from helping their local environment to credit unions& community centres, but maybe this has been ghettoissed & we need to get out there for the european elections & make a sure any radical independents & greens do make a difference.

it ends up giving the BNP some cred when they dont deserve any for lame ideas & hate.

it definteley shouldnt give the lame hateful BNP any credence with its nazi quack doctoring.

The BNP are nazis& their ideas belong in the grave,most of their members have very,very little excuse

I agree with some of the comments that have been made about the article I have written.

The aim of the article was not to exaggerate or overstate the credibility of the BNP. However, the fact that the BNP won a seat on the London Assembly is not overstating their growth within British politics.

Nor does it overstate the credibility of the BNP to mention the trend of traditional left-wing Labour supporters who are not turning to other political parties such as the Greens or Independents, but the BNP. Surely, the two individuals I quoted in the article were aware of the Green Party and Independent, yet they chose to vote for a political party which is opposed to black and minority ethnic populations in Britain. Hence, why I concluded that the increasing numbers of people who are turning to the BNP are doing so because they oppose multiculturalism, and not because they are confused and desperate as the mainstream media argues.

Hopefully, one day we can all discuss multiculturalism from an honest perspective without having to evade the issues involved or deny that they exist.

Recycling old shite doesn't make it any better you know Kumain - it is still shit. You had better get some new ideas, or better still a mind of your own, rather than regurgitate such simple minded simplistic drivel. Get a life.

Mark Watson misses fundamental points in the rise of the BNP. First, it is a party with a membership of twelve thousand people. That is about 0.02% of the General Population. This is not to say it is an unimportant number, but certainly not overwhelming support. More concerning is how such a tiny minority can obtain electoral representation in a democracy.

The claim that the BNP is on the rise is little more than Celebrity vacuity. It is a celebrity party that wraps itself in the manipulation of the media. Much like the good judge, the bad judge and the funny judge on television talent shows. The BNP presents itself as being the nasty but fundamentally good judge.The judge that knows what it is on about. That kind of power allows the BNP to make or break the celebrity aspirations of ordinary people. While the BNP is currently in no position to realise those aspirations in concrete terms, they have perfected a technique of empathising with ordinary aspirations while manipulating them for the one thing the BNP does want. That is power.

While many on the left decry the BNP for being racist, they neglect some of the other aspects of the BNP. They are not just a racist party. They are a Fascist Party. The fundamental desire is not to kick out foreigners. The fundamental desire is to have power. Absolute power. The power to say foreigners leave. The power to say you will live here or work there or behave in this way.

The powers that the BNP crave are being put in place by the Government. Forget the fact that Labour has a parliamentary majority. The Conservative and Liberal Democrats also participate. There was cross bench agreement on Anti-Terror Laws. The same laws that are now being used to put CCTV into ordinary people's bedrooms. That is a power the BNP desire. There has been no concerted party opposition to Identity Cards - which is something the BNP will need in order to operate effectively when in Government.

Which is the second fundamental point about the BNP: they can only gain power in a society that has appropriate conditions. Without ID cards, the BNP would have extreme difficulty controlling anybody - let alone knowing who to "voluntarily" repatriate. Without long term aribtrary detention legislation, the BNP would have no threat to wave at people. Without the provisions of the Terrorism Act, there would be no power to manipulate peoples' live on a whim. The BNP is being created, more or less, by the powers that the Government and Loyal Opposition are taking onto themselves.

Powers that they believe to be acceptable in the hands of decent parties in Parliament. Which might be the case. It ignores where the BNP are: in local and parish councils. Where the power to "cooperate" with the local police means the power to despatch CCTV vans around the streets as an act of arbitrary power. The power to sit on committees and ensure the committee achieves nothing. Thus sustaining the failure of democracy that began with Parliaments idiotic creation of ill thought out laws, granting ill thought out powers to ill thinking people. The BNP is not the problem. They are a symptom.

Just as every "media worthy" cause arises - Fathers For Justice, the Loss of Data Discs - so too does the BNP push itself to the forefront. Nothing more can be expected from the political conviction that turned the swastika into the most successful logo of hatred. The conviction that power is all that is necessary. Given power, all things are possible.

Antifascists, of a certain kind, at this point, will be pointing and decrying the lack of call to radical action. If such Antifascists wish to utilise leaked lists to take radical action against named people that is their own concern. More likely will be that the BNP will point to every single "incident" around a member as being due to antifascists. Thus spreading the lie (tell a lie, tell a big lie, tell a lie so big everybody can not do anything but believe it) that Fascists are a persecuted minority. Each attack notches up another martyr. Perfect in every media friendly, celebrity packaged aspect.

The BNP have waited for a long time for this opportunity. Carefully grooming 0.02% of the population to become victims. It is grooming that marks them out as the political home of paedophiles. It is grooming that marks them out as sociopaths who have learned to fake empathy. It is the artificial creation of a minority that have nothing in common except their future utility in giving the BNP high command power. Sacrificial tokens, not people. Much the same as the Brownshirts.

The BNP is not rising to power. The fear of the BNP gaining power is rising. Everybody recognises how they will get power and are too terrified to say. It will be by accident.

Systematic and persistent grabbing of powers by the Government has created an environment in which people resent the arbitrary nature of laws. Laws put in place to pander to consulting IT Companies (Biometric ID Cards) or to Service Management Companies (DWP) or Civil Engineers (Endless motorway improvements) or to Recruitment Consultants (CRB Checks) or Banks (Privatisations and Corporate Welfare) or employers (the impending obligation to work for claimants) or security consultants (Endless CCTV). This is a system that systematically destroys human dignity. It is a system that is out of control. The BNP will gain power because the powers they desire have been put in place.

Antifascists will disagree. The solution is simple: kick the Fascist Thugs around. Having harnessed the power of a multicultural community to be a community, the BNP now have their largest and most diverse membership in decades. Antifascists kicking them around will simply radicalise those who are not thugs. Even if Antifascists do not do this, there is nothing stopping the cadre of Ideological Soldiers that still inhabit the centre of the Party from doing so and blaming it on Antifascists. Perhaps this has even happened in the destruction of cars near a BNP Councillors home.

Griffin will jump on every single populist bandwagon to claim his feifdom is being persecuted. By losing a disc of data which has the details of a lot of people (who knows, he may have simply harvested these details from the Internet and sprinled in his own motley crew) the BNP are again ramping their reputation on the back of current affairs. Not so much being current affairs but stealing the image of the constant failure of data security by Private Contractors in Government employ to paint the BNP as a poor oppressed minority. And it is working. For a party unworthy of registration, let alone election, Griffin has manipulated the media for almost a decade. Making it perfectly acceptable to legally state (as a consequence of his own trial) that the BNP is a "wicked and vicious faith".

have always had a spattering of professionals, just like the Nazi party in Germany they use hate to attract a variety of professions.
The right wing in government & media have deliberately created the hateul vibe thats helped the BNP& want people to ignore the fact theyve helped the BNP by blaming it on their desperation in main stream politics. People on indymedia have been saying this repeatedly for many years.What you seem to be saying is many in the BNP are various brands of racist pure& simple I agree, a minority of them are confused.
Some racists who are anti arab & muslim claim not to be racist because they are ethnic or of colour or have black girlfriends, this is is something I think that some in the afro caribbean community ignore.

The trend has also been for people not to vote in the UK out of disillusionment with mainstream politics& the latest research Ive seen shows that whilst the BNP does get alot of voters in ex labour areas, they still get more old tories with many ex tory councillors.
Radical Independents & greens with radical plans for more direct universal democracy have plenty of space to grow, if they get the suppport going door to door.
Sod the BNP, if you read stormfront or other white pride sites you can see many of them belieive their racist fight is futile& many of them give up or become even more extreme. That doesnt mean we still couldnt get a fascist dictatorship in the UK that culls the "weakest" or "undesirable"for "environmental" reasons rather than racial& no doubt many BNP would relish taking part in this even & many would be victims of it like their brown shirt predecessors.

have always had a spattering of professionals, just like the Nazi party in Germany they use hate to attract a variety of professions.
The right wing in government & media have deliberately created the hateul vibe thats helped the BNP& want people to ignore the fact theyve helped the BNP by blaming it on their desperation in main stream politics. People on indymedia have been saying this repeatedly for many years.What you seem to be saying is many in the BNP are various brands of racist pure& simple I agree, a minority of them are confused.
Some racists who are anti arab & muslim claim not to be racist because they are ethnic or of colour or have black girlfriends, this is is something I think that some in the afro caribbean community ignore.

The trend has also been for people not to vote in the UK out of disillusionment with mainstream politics rather than go to the BNP. The latest research Ive seen shows that whilst the BNP does get alot of voters in ex labour areas,but they still get more old tories with many ex tory councillors.
Radical Independents & greens with radical plans for more direct universal democracy have plenty of space to grow, if they get the suppport going door to door.
Sod the BNP, if you read stormfront or other white pride sites you can see many of them belieive their racist fight is futile& many of them give up or become even more extreme. That doesnt mean we still couldnt get a fascist dictatorship in the UK that culls the "weakest" or "undesirable"for "environmental" reasons rather than racial& no doubt many BNP would relish taking part in this even & many would be victims of it like their brown shirt predecessors.

I don't see the membership list as proof of a long-term rise in support for the far right. The National Front had a bigger membership in the 1970's and in the worst areas membership rates are still only scraping 0.05 percent of the population. The BNP list contains contacts and out-of-date members so it is falsely inflated. The BNP seem to want to inflate the figure further as in Flintshire which has only 39 names listed but who claim another 150 have joined in the past year (bullshit). The Scottish National Party have a bigger membership with a tenth of the constituency pursuing Nationalist anti-racist politics. There seems to be an opening in England for an anti-racist nationalist party.

It is in the BNP's interest to portray themselves as much bigger than they are and it is a mistake to let them away with that. I am not saying they aren't a threat, such fascist movements can snowball quickly to become a genuine threat, I just don't think they have got to that critical mass yet. It is better to extinguish a tiny flame when it is tiny than wait until the house is burning down.

But left BNP a year ago. Wonder if Griff can explain who consented to there name being used. Maybe proove to the Information Commissioner that everybody agreed to be on that list. He's obsessed with data protection is one eye because the list is his pension.

If you are on the list and you shouldn't be then it is probably safer to just say enough to identify yourself to people who have the list. I feel most of us would be happy with that.

I think it is in everyones interest for someone to maintain a revised list. Anyone who is on the list and publically says they are not BNP members should be removed, along with the childrens names.

The trouble is in publishing a revised list. For a start, it would need to be on a 'bullet-proofed' website to avoid the BNP lawyers. Also, the full list is out there already and noone can withdraw it.

Personally speaking, if you don't have 'activist' next to your name then you are in no physical threat to you or your property. There are enough activists to occupy my time. I am going to poster up a few lists just of BNP activists within each local postcode area, with any extra information that I can find out about them.

Regarding activists - Im both named as a member and described as an "activist", I am neither and nor have I been a member for some time. As to being an activist Im actually a lazy sod, always have been and always will be. Where they got the idea I was active is beyond me.

It is also apparent that many activists, some of the most prominent, are not listed as such. And some are left off altogether.

Billy, why do you think an inaccurate list was released? You really should consider suing the BNP, not for releasing your name ( no legal case there since they didn't release it, or won't admit that they did ) but you could sue them for having you listed inaccurately on their file in the first place.

I did notice some local names missing. I'll bear your comment in mind and do my own research on a case by case basis - I've just been asking the people listed face to face. I have enough names of locals who are happy to admit to being activists and don't want to waste my time on people who shouldn't be on the list.

It would help if someone maintained a list of people who are wrongly listed as members. For that to work though, those people would have to be prepared to identify themselves enough so that anyone who had the membership list could cross them off it. That would also help establish the true membership figure.

I dont know why the list is so inaccurate, maybe to cover someones tracks or maybe just plain inept record keeping. The reverse of my situation is that there are a number of people who's names I recognise as being real activists on there who are not described as being activists. Why this should be I have no idea.

To sue the BNP would take somone with a bit more financial clout than I have and if the BNP didnt leak the list (or it cant be proved they did) surely they could just say as a defence that whoever leaked it also edited and amended it for their own reasons.

Hinting at who is and isnt a BNP member or activist publicly on a forum like this could end up with the BNP sussing who that person is and opponents not, and so the unlucky person ends up getting visited twice by both BNP.C18. and UAF.Antifa.

I am worried and some might say serves you right for getting involved in the BNP but its a party that people join on a spur of the moment thing or as a protest, it doesnt mean they are racist or fascist. Yeah I joined but thats about it and the majority are probably like me.

Thank you for your considered reply, by the way.

Billy,

I hope most names on that list are like you say, "a spur of the moment thing or as a protest" without being racist or fascist.
I am a bit racist myself because to be honest I only knew one non-white kid when I was at school, but I try not to be cos I've travelled a bit now. Racism isn't just a white problem, all races are naturally racist, but that doesn't make it right. A personal test on whether you are a fascist or not is whether you would fight for Britain in 1941 or whether you would fight for German/Itailan fascists. I hope you would have fought against fascism back then.

I am sorry you don't have the cash to sue the BNP but I can't offer you any help either, I am broke too. I doubt you have anything to fear from UAF Antifa, they are really not violent - they refused to publish the membership list in case people like me took reprisals. I have tried to pick fights with antifascists but I can't. And I doubt anyone in the fascist groups would hurt you either but I understand your reluctance to risk that.

I have to tell you this though. My local BNP activists are druggy gangsters. They would threaten you. They did kidnap, drug and threaten me. I can forgive some of them as they didn't actually kill me in the end, but they are a sick group. I shouldn't judge every BNP member by that standard though.

Several times IM Posters have said they would forgive and ignore any listed BNP member who admitted to contacting the BNP while not being a member. So far no one on IM or any similar forum has threatened anyone but proud BNP activists. If you were to identify yourself then I promise you I would try to protect you from anyone who didn't accept your excuse.

I do hope people like you escape unscathed from this situation, hopefully a bit wiser too,

ahimsha,