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This posting has been hidden because it breaches the Indymedia UK (IMC UK) Editorial Guidelines.

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Numerous animal rights arrests - not many convictions

Gary | 10.11.2008 16:26 | Stop Sequani Animal Testing | Animal Liberation

A short round up of where we are now

In late September there began a campaign by police forces all around the UK and throughout Europe and North America to arrest people involved in animal rights and liberation activities. These arrests were often on the most flimsy of evidence, evidence that is some cases was obtained illeagly. There have been developments since then and regretfully some individuals are still in jail however the majority are free and although are bailed to return to court are at least not stuck in prison.

There is however an ongoing and bigger problem facing us all. A problem that is either being denied or hidden by some people within our movement - police infiltration and police informers. Nearly all of these arrests were the result of inside information, some of it gained we know by the copying of Sean Kirley's computer others by some individuals simply selling what they know to the police. We all of course have our views of these people, poverty, fear, a feeling of being 'in over ones head' all are possible drivers but the fact remains that this has resulted in us being probably weaker than we have been in years and god knows what information in the hands of the police.

Despite that some still think that the way to deal with this challenge is to hide or deny it. Even Indymedia uk here which in the past had been great for telling the truth felt the need to become part of the cover up. See this series of posts ---------

www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2008/09/408433.html?c=all

The police action is spreading, they are sharing information across borders and are co-ordinating their efforts. Today in Poland three arrests of individuals just because they were on Sean Kirtley's email listings !

I really strongly encourage everybody to remember the basics of security, no mobile phone calls, no emails, meet only face to face. Be wary of anybody new that seems very keen to be involved, never keep records in electronic format and most importantly of all remember your friends and please, please do not sell them out.

We all need to stay together for the sake of the cause we all love so much.

Gary
- Homepage: http://www.abolitionistapproach.com

Comments

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Troll

10.11.2008 16:43

You seem to be the same troll who has been causing problems and making false allegations. If you are really Gary post your article directly to your blog otherwise we can just assume you’re the same troll with another false name.

ARC

Your evidence?

10.11.2008 16:47

Please provide evidence of "Seans email listings" this sounds like a pile of bullshit to me.

We all know the importance of activist security and have no problems with people sending out reminders to be secure. HOWEVER linking Sean Kirtley and Sequani 6 evidence to arrests in Poland sounds like another round of bullshit.

Are you claiming to be Professor Gary Francione who blogs at abolitionist approach?

He never EVER signs his postings Gary....

ConcernedActivist

please spare us!!!

10.11.2008 17:30

I suppose persistance should be admired. Have the Polish activists already been arrested or is that happening later in the week?
At the risk of boring everyone to tears again I repeat Sean's computer was taken by the police when they raided his house. This is what they do, they do not require someone to sneak in. Encryption is very advisable.
In all fairness though the bloke pretending to be Gary Francoine does give some sound advice about being careful.

Lynn Sawyer

trollLOLin around

10.11.2008 17:41

At first I too thought this might have been a genuine article, but reading further only made me realise it was the same old troll trying to stir things up again. Especially the 'do not trust newcomers' sentence. Lets shed some light on the situation...

1. Being aware of police informants is common sense. We do not need to be hysterical about it. Asking people to stop being hysterical about it does NOT mean we are trying to censor or ignore the issue. The reason previous posts were hidden by indymedia is because they aren't stupid and can also see that the same few people are trying to hype up something that isn't really a problem and doesn't need to stop us recruiting new people or allowing people to get involved in protest.

2. Most of the recent arrests were NOT due to "insider knowledge". Most were a flimsy attempt by police who had little or no evidence and were grasping at straws.

3. All of the posts claiming that the AR movement is wrought with insiders and informations have yet to post ANY evidence.

4. Allegations over Sean's hard drive getting copied still fail to have manifested into any tangible proof and even IF it were true (highly unlikely), those who keep going on about this seem to keep bypassing the fact that Sean was arrested for Sequani not SHAC.


Yes, there will be informants within any protest movement. We all know this and we all just get on with things with this in mind, staying secure but not shutting people out or stopping what we're doing. What is happening here is quite simply that people are trying to split up the AR movement with speculation, lies and hysteria. They think that causing distrust amongst our own will make everything break down and stop. Unfortunately, those responsible are not that bright and most posts are written in the same poor way, with the same grammatical errors and along the same ridiculous lines.

Keep troll spottin' guys :o)

TrollWatchUK

Reply To Gary

10.11.2008 17:51

Gary I think you are plod, whoever, whatever. Trying to create suspicion, and paranoia among us. We all know who are trusted friends are. You will have to do a load better than that mate.
xXx

Pan The Friend & Protector Of All The Animals

Hidden Comment

This posting has been hidden because it breaches the Indymedia UK (IMC UK) Editorial Guidelines.

IMC UK is an interactive site offering inclusive participation. All postings to the open publishing newswire are the responsibility of the individual authors and not of IMC UK. Although IMC UK volunteers attempt to ensure accuracy of the newswire, they take no responsibility legal or otherwise for the contents of the open publishing site. Mention of external web sites or services is for information purposes only and constitutes neither an endorsement nor a recommendation.

Same old answers

10.11.2008 17:54

mmmmm so anybody who raises the matter of infiltration is a troll is he/she ?

There seems to be a pattern here, somebody raises the issue and quickly a number of posts come along to say its all trolling and we should ignore it. Well sorry but I think a little more openess and a little less telling others want to think might not be a bad thing for some of the campagns.

Cover up watch

what to do with informers ???

10.11.2008 18:08

HANG THE FUKERS .... no justice no peace A.C.A.B.

bones

Hidden Comment

This posting has been hidden because it breaches the Indymedia UK (IMC UK) Editorial Guidelines.

IMC UK is an interactive site offering inclusive participation. All postings to the open publishing newswire are the responsibility of the individual authors and not of IMC UK. Although IMC UK volunteers attempt to ensure accuracy of the newswire, they take no responsibility legal or otherwise for the contents of the open publishing site. Mention of external web sites or services is for information purposes only and constitutes neither an endorsement nor a recommendation.

Yeah yeah

10.11.2008 18:56

Pointing out hushing up of SHAC informers. Must be a troll

Talking about plod infilltration of WARN. Must be a troll

Trying to let peeps know whats happening. Must be a troll

Lynn Sawyer and her little band of usefull idiots can try all they like but Indy isnt the only place this is being talked about so you can look forward to hearing from us. We know

must be a troll

for goodness sake!

10.11.2008 19:40

I was one of the sequani 6, and saw everything that was on seans computer during the trial, and i can assure everyone that Sean had no listings, noone elses names, no information on anyone whatsoever, at all, in any shape or form, full stop.

so whoever you are stop using and abusing his name.

i should know

could it be.......

10.11.2008 20:05

s.p.a.r.t.a on facebook



Culprits?

g

Hidden Comment

This posting has been hidden because it breaches the Indymedia UK (IMC UK) Editorial Guidelines.

IMC UK is an interactive site offering inclusive participation. All postings to the open publishing newswire are the responsibility of the individual authors and not of IMC UK. Although IMC UK volunteers attempt to ensure accuracy of the newswire, they take no responsibility legal or otherwise for the contents of the open publishing site. Mention of external web sites or services is for information purposes only and constitutes neither an endorsement nor a recommendation.

For "one of the sequani 6"

11.11.2008 08:39

So you are saying that Sean had a computer but had nothing on it ? I have to say that doesn't seem very likely. I received emails from him and sent them to him, are you really suggesting that there is no record of that and of my details ?

I agree with an earlier poster that this is a subject being talked about a lot in some circles and it is somewhat rich of people like Lynn (whom I like a lot) to try and pretend this debate is not going on. Within the Shac grouping the meetings about Susan and who she really was went on for weeks before she was thrown out but now people come to the Indy newswire and try and pretend she never existed and the problems she caused do not matter.

We need to remember we are doing nothing wrong, our cause is just and the people we are fighting against are evil. Perhaps one or two people should take this time to consider their roles and think about the possibility that their desire to control has made them lose sight of the bigger and more important picture. Stopping debate and conversation is not the way forward for any organisation. So we have had setbacks that does not mean we are going to give up.

Chin up everybody, let us get all this out in the open where it belongs, exclude those who are not part of our work and move on to the day of liberation that we know is coming.

Until all are free

Arron

Arron
mail e-mail: Arron_home@gmail.co

Gary Francione

12.11.2008 14:57

I emailed Gary about this article under the assumption that he did not write it but might like to know about someone using his name in vain. He emailed back asking me for more information and didn't have a clue about any of this. I got the impression that he does not even look at Indymedia. We are seding him more info about this.Now a very simple question;
Why would a genuine activist pretend to be another activist or proport to be speaking on behalf of an organisation they are not involved with?
So far we have had someone pretending to be from Veggies and someone else(or the same person) pretending to be from the Vegan Prisoner Support Group to name but 2. All in all folks it does not work, you see we are all quite capable of contacting one another to see if for example VPSG have made a post. Give us some credit and maybe use a little more sophistication next time.

Lynn Sawyer

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