This incoherent post hardly does justice to the subject. Muslims in particular should have a look at the use of "pseudo gangs" in the north of Ireland in the '70s and '80s (as fully explained by that nice Brigadier Kitson) and perhaps ask a few questions about some of the organisations currently distorting Islam and its history.

Why DO you "write like" this??...IS IT [because] it makes "what" you SAY more...IMPORTANT??(!)

cheers, the typing echoes speech patterns - lots of us
1: aint "academic",
2: aint ashamed of that either. Cope with it, boo.
Stroppyoldgit is accurate if you are googling / scroogling for information - but its probably time wider terms were used for what is a wider factor. The post also mentions the "islamic" groups that were set up - almost certainly by oil corporations etc in the early twentieth century - to focus/distort the ethics of certain groups to oppose democratisation - of all types - as much as support the local power-bases that signed the license-deals with those oil corporations. Judging from stories written at the time - (*) - some of the people doing the salesperson bit were the same types as our current crop of mesmerist mortgage swindlers, so often doubts amongst the entire population were high - so the need to pretend they were all a sort of secular "red" threat, so putting together the equivalent of South Americas "contra" type groups. The Daily Mail, of all papers, a couple of years ago printed a bit of research that showed how a few of the "islamic brotherhood" types were shifted out of Egypt - after the "Suez" disaster to somewhere safer by certain "western" ( shouldnt associate loyalty with origin, remember ) types. Unfortunately, this was brought "in-house" in the late 1970s (officially from xmas 1979 - see the whitehouse letters - but in actual fact from much sooner - see memoirs of mercenaries (that-set-up-a-certain-magazine-with-cash-from-the-op), ending up with the "safari network" - that was recently allowed a new "gloss" in a motion-picture-theatre-near-you - but with the use of a good intentioned puppet-front-person (from the Democrats, for all those people who think the jobs done if the parties are swapped around). (ps - worth looking out "polls, damned lies" on"freepress.org"for a look at how the media might try to massage opinion for a bit of a play with the opaquevotecomputers (cheers Homer) - but remember its quite possibly congressional rep by rep - regardless of party). There are those that wonder if people are trying to use these old networks for other purposes outside the employ of their past paymasters, nations, etc.

PS - despite the fact that people are - quite reasonably - sick of hearing the phrase "islamo-fascist" aimed at nations that are basically trying to "circle the wagons" or acting like brave hedgehogs in the face of what they see as the old bully that took away their l a s t democratic government - suddenly turning up next door again from the other side of the world - its also worth looking up a bit of the research that "coined" that phrase. Yes, despite bias, yes, despite blindspots - but Cohen (yes - he ofFOX !) HAS come up with a few useful bits of the jigsaw. Also worth pointing out that in the 1920s the kibbutz were the middle east "threat of democratisation" to the old snake-oil-charmers of the oil corporations ( these days also diversified into nukes, arms-dealers, with the "fence"-type support-industries of hedge funds, assorted cash-launderers, etc that try to masquerade as "institutions" when it suits them). Motherhood, apple pie - or the people that had to get chased out of each old western frontier town when the "medecine" they sold poisoned the kids. But the wagon looked so nice!


(*)e.g. that 1930s printing trade book "Mrchnt of Lttrs" mentions the Shah of one nation getting swindled into signing a 50 year license for a suitcase of dollars. . . . that came up for renegotiation in 1953 . . . . wonder what happened then? ( see the actual U.S. report - also declassified - with one minor alteration (guess what sort of corporations name was airbrushed out?)- but a blindspot about the "submerged" simultaneous commercial bit of the operation - including mention of a young (used) Kermit Rooseveldt, in one of those little booklets from that old left press in the states - i forget the name. Should search engine okay though, with that.

more LATER
(BOO . . . . i wuz tryin' !)
. . . . cheers, grins, etc.
keep researchin!!!!

in reference to the 1930s research about "islamofascism" in relation to pseudo-groups, was loftus. But the mention of Cohen is a perfect double-link to two different people that have done useful research around this subject.
One re-researched, in the 1960s, much of the actual witness statements to the congressional hearings into the expose, by Smedley D. Butler, with the journalist French, of the failed "Business Coup" against FDR in the 1930s - that involved this ex-marines top brass type getting offers of hordes of ex-ww1 soldiers as a street "stage army", with a few machinations of the stock market to create a crash/sudden recession, to get a more "Wall Street friendly" government. Most of the staff of that commitee were around, if much older, so despite the whitewashing of the "minutes", good, factual reports were put on record.
Hmmm. So they say the past doesnt teach us things.
The other Cohen wrote about the forgers of the infamous "Protocols" by the Tsars secret police - or at least its especially dodgy "foreign" operation, based in Paris, that used the "dual payment" system to add experts from the staffs of several nations police, as much as the odd gumshoe or fraudster to its books. Despite the fact that several of its internal plots - to alter who was the boss, who had the ear of the Tsar, etc failed horrendously, it was due to one of its "semi-official" campaigns - with a different set of forgeries, or rather, faked up leaflets, terrorist guides, etc, that got it shut down by the french parliament in1913. ( They added actual dynamite .)This set of forgeries was responsible, on the back of the same sort of operations in the states - e.g.Chicago, Haymarket - for twisting the "words aint enough" attitude of several people campaigning for such straightforward things as the eight hour working day,etc, into that "bomb-throwing-cliche" that - to this day - obscures a lot of sensible thought from one bit of the political spectrum.
. . . . but its quite possible that pattern of tragic repetitions that plagued the twentieth century so much was the way the "Protocols" were also used as the spin for the pseudo-group "the black hundreds" to take out critics of certain of the barons that supported serfdom, poor conditions or extortion in Russia, way after the Tsar had shown his opposition to it. . . .
. . . . all too often the people that were scammed by these forgeries MOST were the customers or political leaders - though some saw through it a few years later.

**** along with the "Rita Kronenbitter" magazine pieces, research about this does allow a lot of food for thought. Keep in mind that these people were unaware of each others work at the time.

seperate debates about "what to do about it" follow later.

I use inverted commas when quoting a contrived term apparently invented by one person (Brigadier Kitson in this case, as far as I know) and not widely understood. It means I'm quoting him, not adopting or necessarily agreeing with the term myself.

And no, I ain't academic either. Left school at 15 after bunking off nearly all the last year and haven't been educated by anyone except myself and my friends since then. Couldn't understand long words or write coherently until I did something about it in my 20s. If some other posters on here got their syntax, grammer and punctuation a bit more sorted out, other people might be able to understand what they're actually trying to say. That's what it's for, you know -to make your meaning clear. It's got fuck all to do with being pedantic, stuck up or academic.

I use inverted commas when quoting a contrived term apparently invented by one person (Brigadier Kitson in this case, as far as I know) and not widely understood. It means I'm quoting him, not adopting or necessarily agreeing with the term myself.

And no, I ain't academic either. Left school at 15 after bunking off nearly all the last year and haven't been educated by anyone except myself and my friends since then. Couldn't understand long words or write coherently until I did something about it in my 20s. If some other posters on here got their syntax, grammer and punctuation a bit more sorted out, other people might be able to understand what they're actually trying to say. That's what it's for, you know -to make your meaning clear. It's got fuck all to do with being pedantic, stuck up or academic.

meaning : gist, spirit, essential component, how it affects you/me/all of us, what we might do about it . . . .
waiting
waiting
waiting
w. . . .



that said, shall try harder. how about you

if you put together a few bits of old information, sometimes you do get new information, then that does alter your opinions about a lot of things, if you are awake.
Try these
That old 1939 book - ostensibly about Constitutional history - by "John Arkas Hawgood" (reprinted in the 70s, so possible to get hold of) - in comparison to most "digests" these days - seems to have a more complete set of background to the situation in Italy of the 1920s in a few paragraphs . . . . but when you add the information about the strength - in the north of Italy - of the cross-national retainer-based network of that paris-based "rogue" outpost of the Tsars secret police - "especially in sub-post offices, etc", its worth looking at the patterns that accelerated from its old "state" practise in Russia to infect much of the world. When this bunch of failed swindlers, fraudsters, forgers totally screwed up a last couple of times - (see Cohen ) to get their entire operation shut in Paris, (kicked out by the French, then to see its cunning plot to replace the "provisional government" of 1917 - not with the Tsar, but with a friendly ( easier to puppet ) baron - backfired so badly that they were kicked out of Russia too, they went into the "gumshoe" game. (See the early history ofpinkertons for the model they copied)
They followed their old cash-cows to the rest of Europe, the states, etc, then battened onto them or their friends (seeFord, that "Medium Press" booklet theEconomic Leagues, (protocols recycled, etc ) much to the misfortune of the customers they played for fools, whipping up a paranoia of "red-scares", possibly sometimes with the use of the remains of old networks that riddled bits of the bolshevik faction of the left, or those that they might have had partial influence upon.* Sometimes entire defence campaigns were set up ("set up" in several ways!) - second tiers of the "home guard" you might say - with the "guiding expertise" of these failed fiddlers at their core.
. . . . so, with the postcoldwar explosions in those dodgy gumshoe operations to the extent that one operator claimed, in the grauniad a few weeks ago, that up to one in four of the people at a major demo ( Climate Camp ) were operators, with the farcical situations that came out in the old Mclibel trials ( at times, entire meetings of around ten people only had one person there that wasnt "paid to attend !" ) - are there things we could do about it to prevent the recurrence of past tragedies.
(a question for "operators" too, but also "society" . . . . if you look at who that old Tsarist secret police bunch of clumsy machinators had got to when they were "legit" - it included the putting ofopinion influencers into the ENTIRE spectrum of politics - the mainstream too. All .( paid workers too ! ) Yes, minister - your paid workers too.)



( The minister was contacted for a comment upon this piece but a spokesperson informed us that he couldnt possibly comment. But he probably should. . . . )


(*see "Rita Kronenbitter"s declassified 1960s internal CIA letters to see discussions continued 50 years later, amongst "experts" too). Return to top .

. . . . is possible. see also "remember each eleventh" campaign posts
past, present, future
- "its the situation"
"amends"
- - - - but, within this debate - a need for debate about the "structure"s across the world that have got so distorted by the tail-wag-dog criminals attempts to launder loot that . . . . they are threatening to "crunch" the real economy .
This is DESPITE the fact that , in the same way that the dodgiest of corrupt commissars in the soviet union used to say that people who complained about their extortion rackets were "running dogs of capitalism", this lot do the same sort of thing, but with their clumsy tentacles intertwined - to some extent - with those that pretend they are protecting free speech, free thought, etc (!) - or at least - the "free market" ( their loopholes - from interruption, alteration, amendment - or discussion ) - its all too easy to predict the cries of "RED", commie, etc.
That said, all too often this has meant people HAVENT said the sort of things that DO need saying in a sort of exagerrated veer of self-censorship away from that, or to a sort of wishy-washy "moderation" that doesnt actually work. There are different ways of acting in a good "tory" way - to ensure we dont lose all the wonderful bits of the "past" in a headlong rush to a shiny future - that dont involve a blindspot where city-jugglers rip-offs are concerned in the same way that there is a sort of patriotism that doesnt involve smashing up people that look different - so it shouldnt surprise people that there are different ways of putting society highest in global equations - what "socialism" means to a lot of people - that dont mean all-powerful dictators or "gruel-for-breakfast,again" - or to remember that liberal is also a word for caring about other peoples free thought - that we might need as support some day too. (. . . . Etc! )
The "support your local scammers" "complicity" type of spin, that tries to play us off against each other - has had quite some effect on the way we think about words. As the twentieth century increased the power to influence people without allowing us all that extra time to unravel each lie - there are blindspots within the blindspots. "Internal" spin - that has the "programmers" that bit programmed too.

There is plenty for all, if we put the "machinery" of the world together in a different way.

The "loopholes" were always based around a syphoning off of a fraction of the waste from a carefully guarded "hole in the bucket" factor. "Quis custodiat custodies", etc . . . . but this has got much worse as the twentieth centuries "cold war" lasted. A face from the "UK state" end of the dirtier bits of the "Irish war" once told me that what might ACTUALLY prevent the peace process were the lucrative scams that a few got away with on each side. But a process that had actually got going from the mutual recognitions of integrity, or "attitude" of the "hard"men/women of the Maze had more strength. But after the lucky end of the cold war . . . .