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worse than a war criminal : John McCain

brian | 07.10.2008 07:56 | Social Struggles | World

Why cant the US field humane candidates?

McCain: A worse war criminal than I thought


I've written before (and I think I'm actually the primary source on the web) how John McCain was shot down over Vietnam while bombing a civilian target, a lightbulb factory. And I've also written, and commented, how there were of course more serious war criminals than pilots obeying illegal orders, from the colonels and generals who gave the orders to the Presidents and Secretaries of State and Congresses who sent them there in the first place.

Today I was browsing in a bookstore and picked up a copy of Micheael Moore's Guide to the Elections, and, I swear I am not making this up, the book opened to the page where McCain's wartime history was being recounted, and specifically the larger context of that lightbulb factory bombing:

John McCain flew 23 bombing missions over North Vietnam in a campaign called Operation Rolling Thunder. During the bombing campaign, which lasted for almost 44 months, U.S. forces flew 307,000 attack sorties, dropping 643,000 tons of bombs on North Vietnam. Though the stated targets were factories, bridges, and power plants, thousands of bombs also fell on homes, schools, and hospitals [Left I note: Moore writes as if factories and power plants are not also civilian targets]. In the midst of the campaign, Defense [sic] Secretary Robert McNamara estimated that we [sic] were killing 1,000 civilians a week. That's more than one 9/11 every single month - for 44 months.
Ah, but McCain was still just a pilot following orders, right? Well, not quite:
In his book, Faith of Our Fathers, McCain writes that he had been upset that he had been limited to bombing military installations, roads, and power plants. He said such restrictions were "illogical" and "senseless."

"I do believe," McCain wrote, "that had we taken the war to the North and made full, consistent use of air power in the North, we ultimately would have prevailed."
So McCain was not just a war criminal. He was, and is, a vocal proponent of war crimes.

By the way, I don't know if it's significant, but Moore's book claims McCain was shot down bombing a power plant. I've seen that claim before, but I don't know where it comes from. If you take a look at the link above, which is a 2000 newspaper article based on an interview with the man who rescued McCain from the lake in which he landed, it is clear the target was a lightbulb factory, not a power plant. Has the power plant story been invented to make the target seem slightly more legitimate? I don't know, but I'm sticking with the original source material and the claim of a lightbulb factory unless someone can provide another, equally definitive, source.
 http://lefti.blogspot.com/2008_10_01_archive.html#5685889500551685069

brian
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Comments

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58,000 U.S. casualties....

07.10.2008 08:34

One million Vietnamese combatant casualties.

Around Four Million Vietnamese civillian casualties.

These figures alone show the cowardly tactics of the U.S. political and military elite.

And for what?

Mousey Tongue


Remember the one million South Vietnamese refugees!

07.10.2008 09:30

If you think that the North Vietnamese were innocent then think again. It was the North Vietnamese under Ho Chi Min who started the Vietnam war by attacking and invading South Vietnam. When the Americans signed a peace treaty with North Vietnam in 1975 the North Vietnamese ignored the peace treaty and continued to attack South Vietnam. When they overthrew the SouthVietnamese government they started a reign of terror against South Vietnamese killing tens of thousands and imprisoning tens of thousands more in re-education camps. Tens of thousands more starved to death due to famine caused by the policies of the North Vietnamese conquerers and one million South Vietnamese were forced to flee the country to escape persecution. So don't blame the Vietnam war entirely on America. America had gone to the aid of democratic South Vietnam.

Historian


Lack of geopolitical understanding?

07.10.2008 12:23

""I do believe," McCain wrote, "that had we taken the war to the North and made full, consistent use of air power in the North, we ultimately would have prevailed."
So McCain was not just a war criminal. He was, and is, a vocal proponent of war crimes. "

Forget the second conclusion for a moment (North Vietnam WAS at war with the US -- using disproportionate force is NOT a "war crime")

Instead try to understand the geopolitics of the conflict. On whose behalf was the war fought and would the objectives been achieved had the US crushed Vietnam or would that have allowed the Chinese to have doublecrossed on the deal -- and left the US with the burden of now having to provide the buffer to southward Han influence that the Vietnamese no longer strong enough to play that traditional role.

Sorry -- back in the 60's when my mum upset at my anti-war activity sent me to have a talk with one of her boyfriends from before she marriede dad, somebody in "State" -- well to say the least I was rather shocked to learn the byzantine reasoning behind the war in the first place. Don't believe me if you dont' want to but do note that immediately after there WAS a publicly announced peace treaty with China and trade deals.

Mike
mail e-mail: stepbystepfarm@mtdata.com


macain bush both as bad that is why they get elected not for peace

07.10.2008 21:23

macain wants wars .same as bush they make money out of murder of the innocent and helpless and the poor america is ruled by oil companies .and arms dealers sara paine is as bad theyll rig the election to win like al gore got cheated go on u tube put in many crimes of cain .how to kill a priest /szara.willzyca ., the song is sung by the great joan baez /she is a true singer .who sings the truth like .johny i hardly knew yah ./and with god on our side /.that is surely the most acurate song ever sung ./we must pray macain does not get in power hell rig another 9/11 probally against russia they have oil /gas . and plenty of it /pete

peter ambler
mail e-mail: tigger1946@fsmail.net


I think Historian..

08.10.2008 09:13

you'll find that Vietnam had been under French colonisation many years before the U.S. came to their "aid".

Ho Chi Minh had been fighting the french since 1946 , defeating them in 1954 , and again fought the new foreign invaders (U.S) after this date.

Similar to anywhere the U.S sticks its paws they split a country in half, declare one half evil the other side good and proceed to do Gods work.

If it suits a country to use socialist/communist means of progression , then what right has the U.S to dictate otherwise.

Their system is corrupt , selfish , and needs foreign invasions and war to survive yet no one ever invades or even criticises it.

The U.S has never been democratic , never will be , and yet is held up as the beacon and example of democracy for the rest of the world to follow.

In my opinion , people like Ho Chi Minh , who take on these foreign invaders have every right to , and is usually for reasons other than personal gain or capitalist profits.

Bush , Mcain , Obama and the rest are merely prostitutes.

Oh Mi Chin