There's conveniently no sources quoted for your quack theories...

"Though it would never get confirmed"
"It is said that"

It is said (by a guy who I met who's never visited Pakistan but works at the bar of the marriot in Cheale) that the elders of zion were meeting in the basement to sacrifice christian children to Dick Cheney. Though it would never get confirmed, the flag being waved by the moonbat outside my window is actually a tablecloth.

Extra helping of mince cooked in tinfoil for me please.

get your tin foil hat, lizard lovers, anti-semite comments in there you dull wanker

of course its speculative ... you expect acurate meaningful coverage in the media?

how dull

there are questions to be asked about the usual conveinience of this attack, how dare you try and work up your faux outrage and piss poor attention to the details of imperial history

you would have us believe without question the rapidily diseminated 'official line' as quick as have us swallow the we 'freedom loving democrats' them 'evil terrorists' line without complaint

well stuff it down your ego pal

anybody reading this has a computer, so anybody reading this can use a search engine and find the details mising from the news at ten SO DO IT

capitalism, neo-cons, neo-imperialists, and war loving fascism KILLS and in numbers that make al-cia-duh the wooden spoon winners everytime in this 'grand game of chess'

or perhaps you think otherwise? then put up or go away little man

Gosh its easy to be so angry typing on your keyboard.

I love it when a load of drivel gets posted on what should be a forum for indi-pendent journalism, finds itself being rightly hacked to pieces for completely unsubstantiated claims, and then has at least one raging comment like the one above.

It makes my day that bit nicer. But if you don’t mind me asking perhaps you can confirm the folowing:-

do you type with out caps cos your too busy bashing ur bishop on ur second pc screen to reach the shift button…...?

Please indi media. Drop shite articles and make this site credible.
Check out GNN for an idea of what it could be like.

"of course its speculative ... you expect acurate meaningful coverage in the media?"

I expect Indymedia to be "offering grassroots, non-corporate, non-commercial coverage of important social and political issues".

Given how easy it is to fap up a website, I expect to be able to find any flavour of nonsense using a search engine. I apply a higher standard of "adjacency to reality" here. That's why I'm such a "dull wanker" about questioning inane speculation.

of tossers

the issues of mass murder and the terror of imperial aggradizment is just a playground for you two innit?

what the hell does it take for intellectual slobs like you to smarten up and stop attacking the messenger?

don't see an awful lot of meaning refutation in your throw away comments

and why the blazes does encouraging individuals to use the power at their own finger tips and confirm or deny the above speculation not count as grassroots journalism?

seems like you want to play both ends .. make snidy comments and yet not provide one shred of backup to yer idiotic lowest common denominator crowing

what a joke

do the research people, the above story and the implied (speculative) analysis is all over the independent media and fits smack bang in the centre of the modus operandi of imperilaist scum since day one ... maybe this is a case of mistaken accusation, maybe it aint

for ah pooks sweet sake, put some effort into finding out and forming your own opinion, rather than passivly receive the mumbled utterings of smart arses who are telling you to ignore yet more mass murder and the implication of a rapacious neo-imperialism running amok with the aspirations of humanity

dam right I'm angry ... aren't you?

The idea that Al Qaida did this is speculation.

But why would Al Qaida attack a government that is shooting at US aircrafts that enter its airspace?

But here's more "tin foil hat" speculation for you from a respected Pakistan newspaper, The Daily Jang.

 http://thenews.jang.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=17401
WAS IT AN ATTACK ON US MARINES?

Sunday, September 21, 2008

By Ansar Abbasi

ISLAMABAD: Was there a top secret and mysterious operation of the US Marines going on inside the Marriott when it was attacked on Saturday evening? No one will confirm it but circumstantial evidence is in abundance.

Witnessed by many, including a PPP MNA and his friends, a US embassy truckload of steel boxes was unloaded and shifted inside the Marriott Hotel on the same night when Admiral Mike Mullen met Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani and others in Islamabad.

Both the main gates (the entrance and the exit) of the hotel were closed while no one except the US Marines were either allowed to go near the truck or get the steel boxes unloaded or shift them inside the hotel. These steel boxes were not passed through the scanners installed at the entrance of the hotel lobby and were reportedly shifted to the fourth and fifth floors of the Marriott.

Besides several others, PPP MNA Mumtaz Alam Gilani and his two friends, Sajjad Chaudhry, a PPP leader, and one Bashir Nadeem, witnessed this mysterious activity to which no one other than the PPP MNA objected and protested.

A source present there told The News that after entertaining them with refreshments at the Nadia restaurant at midnight when Mumtaz Alam, along with his friends, was to leave the hotel, he found a white US embassy truck standing right in front of the hotel's main entrance.

Both the In-gate and the Out-gate of the hotel were closed while almost a dozen well-built US Marines in their usual fatigues were unloading the steel boxes from the truck. No one, including the hotel security men, was either allowed to go near the truck or touch the steel boxes, which were being shifted inside the hotel but without passing through the scanners.

Upon inquiry, one of the three PPP friends who was waiting for the main gates of the hotel to open to get his car in, was informed that the suspicious boxes were shifted to the fourth and fifth floors of the hotel. Mumtaz Alam was furious both at the US Marines and the hotel security not only for the delay caused to them but also for the security lapse he was witnessing.

On his protest, there was absolutely no response from the Marines and the security men he approached were found helpless. Mumtaz Alam told the hotel security official that they were going to endanger the hotel and its security. He was also heard telling his friends that he would never visit the hotel again. He also threatened to raise the issue in parliament.

One does not know whether the PPP MNA revisited the hotel after that mysterious midnight but his brother Imtiaz Alam, who is a senior journalist, was in the same hotel when the truck exploded at the main gate of the hotel. Imtiaz Alam had a lucky escape and found his way out of the hotel with great difficulty in pitch darkness.

One of the lifts he was using fell to the ground floor just after he forced the door open on the 4th floor and got out of it.

There's nothing there to refute!

There's no sources to judge the main item of interest, there's nothing surprising about fractured gas pipes causing a fire on one floor and not another. There's no discussion of Pakistan's complicated internal politics (in fact you deny agency to Pakistani forces at all, supposing instead that it was the USA).

This is not analysis, this is the equivalent of the pub bore saying "meh I bet it was the Americans". That's fine on a weblog, it's *way* *short* of grassroots journalism.

If folk want to convince people of the existence of "false flags", then it would help if they provided evidence, showed evidence of critical thinking, appraised their sources. It's not the job of the rest of the world to find evidence to back up *their* "mumbled utterings".

Dan Brown opines:"I expect Indymedia to be "offering grassroots, non-corporate, non-commercial coverage of important social and political issues"."

Yet a scroogle indicates that he is not responsible for posts which meet his own criteria - so instead of leading by example he attacks other posts. Somehow it seems he doesn't quite understand the concept of DIY open-publishing.

Meanwhile, Tariq Aziz has written something on the subject:

"Why was the Marriot targeted? Two explanations have surfaced in the media. The first is that there was a planned dinner for the president and his cabinet there that night, which was cancelled at the last moment.

The second, reported in the respected Pakistani English-language newspaper, Dawn, is that "a top secret operation of the US Marines [was] going on inside the Marriott when it was attacked". According to the paper: "Well-equipped security officers from the US embassy were seen on the spot soon after the explosions. However, they left the scene shortly afterwards.

The country's largest newspaper, the News, also reported on Sunday that witnesses had seen US embassy steel boxes being carried into the Marriott at night on September 17. According to the paper, the steel boxes were permitted to circumvent security scanners stationed at the hotel entrance.

Mumtaz Alam, a member of parliament, witnessed this. He wanted to leave the hotel but, owing to the heavy security, he was not permitted to leave at the time and is threatening to raise the issue in parliament."

 http://www.counterpunch.org/tariq09232008.html

Are our intrepid anti-conspiracy compulsives still claiming its baseless speculation? Can they point us to reports which impart the information to us in the UK's main stream media?

Do they do anything besides attack posts through comments?

looks more like the work of intelligence ISI that jihadists.

Can't believe I'm defending a conspiracist, but I think it was justified to post the links to this story as it hasn't been in the UK media, it is interesting and it does seem to have some credible sources at local level.

But I would stress that the local press coverage where this has started are citing it as evidence that the US marines - or their project - were the *target*. Not the perpertrators. So the inference of the original post seems backwards.

 http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?sectionName=WorldSectionpage&id=1c4b3920-7d18-4be1-8b25-efa63409b79d&&Headline=Pak%2Bprobes%2Bmystery%2Bof%2BUS%2BMarines%27%2Bsteel%2Bboxes%2B&strParent=strParentID

PAKISTAN PROBES MYSTERY OF US MARINES' STEEL BOXES IN MARRIOTT
Pakistani authorities are trying to "solve the riddle" of US Marines and their mysterious steel cases that were shifted to the Marriott Hotel four days before it was razed in the worst terrorist attack in the federal capital, a media report on Tuesday said.

"The authorities want to ascertain if it was a routine exercise or part of some special mission that does not have the approval of the government of Pakistan," The News said.

The US embassy insists the activity witnessed was a team of support personnel that often and routinely precede and/or accompany certain US officials.

According to an official source, the authorities were told that mysterious activity of the US Marines took place around midnight on Sep 16.

"Already, the government has got information that several rooms on the fourth floor of the Marriott were in permanent use of the US authorities. Three of these rooms were said to be inter-connected and contained some intelligence equipment and other material allegedly used for espionage," the newspaper said.

Marriott owner Sadruddin Hashwani denied that the Americans had any such presence in the hotel and said that like at any such hotel in the world, his guests included people of different nationalities.

"Why focus on the Americans unnecessarily?" he wondered, flatly denying that the US embassy had permanently hired several rooms in the hotel.

US embassy spokesperson Lou Fintor said in a written reply in response to a query on the Marines: "A team of support personnel often and routinely precede and/or accompany certain US government officials.

"They often carry communication and office equipment required to support large delegations, such as high-level administration officials and members of the US Congress."

He added that the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Admiral Mike Mullen, who was in Pakistan last week, would travel with communications equipment.

"It is quite possible that some saw this communications equipment moved into the hotel. This equipment would leave with the CJCS. If the equipment was transported in full public view then obviously there was no attempt made to conceal its movement."

Witnessed by many, including a PPP MNA and his friends, a US embassy truckload of steel boxes was unloaded and shifted inside the Marriott Hotel on Sep 16 midnight only after Mullen had met Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani and others in Islamabad and had already left the country.

"Both the main gates (the entrance and the exit) of the hotel were closed while no one except the US Marines was either allowed to go near the truck or get the steel boxes unloaded or shift them inside the hotel," The News said.

"These steel boxes were not being passed through the scanners installed at the entrance of the hotel's lobby, and were reportedly shifted to the fourth and fifth floors of the Marriott," it added.

A hotel employee, speaking on condition of anonymity, revealed that the management had been receiving threats from unknown persons for the last six months to evict the US officials vacated from the hotel.

Hotel owner Hashwani, however, denied this.

According to the US embassy spokesperson, the mission had been a frequent customer of the Marriott for many years. On any given day, there were employees of the American embassy and official American visitors staying at the hotel.

"There is nothing unusual, secretive or 'mysterious' about this," Fintor maintained.

Asked if three of these permanently hired rooms were interconnected, Fintor said: "For our frequent visiting delegations, the embassy often rented adjoining rooms - as we often do in other hotels in Pakistan and in the world."

Responding to reports that the CIA was using the US-rented rooms for espionage purposes, the spokesperson said: "Unfortunately, far too many things have been 'said' that have absolutely no basis in fact. There is no truth whatsoever in allegations that covert activity was taking place on the part of the United States government."

He termed the allegations inaccurate, irresponsible, baseless and completely without any foundation whatsoever.

Criticism of the original article still stands: unsourced, vague, kneejerk bar-room speculation.

When deservedly called out on this, we get offered some sources and some details. Which would have been what was lacking in the first post.

Therefore, result. It's a less shitty story than it started off as.

But don't expect anyone to care enough about a quarter-story to go looking for details to substantiate it. You write the story, you give us the sources or *some* reason to trust your judgement, or I'll spend my time looking for evidence of the Yeti instead.

good

don't forget to pack your idiots guide to propagander

Because being sceptical of unsourced speculation = peddling propaganda.

This is not just trolling, this is barely literate trolling.

if mr brown is so enamoured with scepticism, perhaps he might express it in the full, rather than through continual base attacks on any and all that fail to met his - as yet - undefined criteria

truth is that mr brown has no interest in positing scepticism, merely playing the role of the 'agitated'

why else attempt to deconstruct the above with nought but insults and ridicule?

tin foil?
anti-semitism?

and why, now that some substance has been added, is mr brown so reluctant to engage in meaningful analysis?

transparent propaganda (attack the messenger) is transparent propaganda

and of course thrown in the troll references why not

mr brown is projecting