Information Links & Sources for the (short) war in South Ossetia
"almost every sport derives from battle or hunting or gathering skills" | 08.08.2008 16:01 | Anti-militarism | History | World
On any one day there is war somewhere on this planet. Either with a big double U or a little one. But some will be interested in information sources and news resources on the current conflict in South Ossetia because it is the first time Russian troops have engaged since the collapse of the USSR.
First link really should be to the people who invited them to engage not those who provoked them.
First link really should be to the people who invited them to engage not those who provoked them.
The State information & press commitee of the republic of South Georgia at 13h54 local time (GMT+4) :-
"The massive, intensive shelling of Tskhinval continues. The city is under the worst shelling. The peaceful population of the capital Tskhinval-RSO is in the shelters in their houses, some of them have no longer this opportunity, because their houses destroyed. There are still a lot of children, women and the elderly in the city at the moment. According to available information at this time, despite ongoing hostilities, the city is not taken by Georgian troops, and continues to resist. Georgian armed formations have pursued a course on the total destruction of Ossetian people. They do everything possible to erase from the face of the earth the Ossetian Human Settlements.
The people of South Ossetia, hoping again to Russia, request assistance in the face of fascism and destruction of Georgia. Guiltless citizens of South Ossetia, Russia citizens are dying in their houses. And the exact number of deaths can not be established."
http://cominf.org/2008/08/08/1166477934.html
that followed quickly on reports of a Georgian bombardment of southern villages and road links running north - south by SU-25 planes. "In these minutes Georgian SU-25 planes dropped bombs on the peaceful citizens of the Republic of South Ossetia. SU-25 also strikes at ossetian village Kvernet, and bypass road,Zar, the only road, which links South Ossetia with the North. Perfidious massive bombardment of Tskhinval by the morning became more intense. In the city and its environs are fighting with heavy weapons. The people of South Ossetia requests assistance from the President of the Russian Federation Dmitry Medvedev and the Government of Russian Federation to take urgent measures to protect the residents of South Ossetia, which are citizens of the Russian Federation and to do everything to stop the genocide of the Ossetian people. According to preliminary data, in the city killed more than 15 civilians. The Georgian convoy of tanks and infantry is moving towards Tshinval. Already devastated a large part of the town. Several buildings in the center of the city burn. Parliament House RYUO burned, the government buildings complex is damaged. High-rise housing and other residential buildings are burning."
http://cominf.org/2008/08/08/1166477932.html
As of 18h53 local time, Cominf Russian Language pages bounce Russian media reports on ethnic cleansing, bombardment of hospitals and largescale refugee movements. http://cominf.org/2008/08/08/1166477947.html
http://cominf.org/
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The people they asked through the tunnels under the mountains to fight their corner and the cause of South Ossetian independence are called "the Russians".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Ossetia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia
You might have heard about their military might which they got through being lucky enough to inherit most of the former USSR's military arsenal and personel. They have not had an opportunity to use them since, least not on another former state of the USSR, this is thus very good for their morale especially as the Georgians are the only former state of the USSR to be named after not just one but three US presidents.
this is the official news agency of Russia http://www.itar-tass.com/eng/
_____________________________________________________________
Now the other side of this first military engagement between 2 former USSR states is as follows.
The Georgians think they are completely to rights to be old-fashioned Serbian if they want to. Their version is of seperatists who don't want to be Georgian and have said so consistently since the USSR ended, being really stroppy lsat night which meant they had to send in precision bombers with laser guided missiles a few hours later they talked to all the diplomatic core and then they talked to the Americans again around tea-time by which stage :-
http://www.mfa.gov.ge/index.php?lang_id=ENG&sec_id=459&info_id=7170
"8 June 2008 it [had] became known to the government of Georgia that on 8 August 2008 large amount of heavy military equipment and personnel belonging to the Russian Federation illegally entered the territory of Georgia through the Roki Tunnel. The Russian side openly declares that the task of these military units is to support the criminal regime of Tskhinvali in the fight against the government of Georgia.
Russian military aircraft three times bombed the Marneuli airbase on the territory of Georgia. Dead and wounded were reported among the base personnel as a result of the bombings while several Georgian airplanes were destroyed"
httpp://www.mfa.gov.ge/index.php?lang_id=ENG&sec_id=1
They are also experiencing server difficulties. & it can be difficult to persuade them to give you a page of information complete with the little cookie. War does that to people, makes them suspicious and stingey and untrustworthy too.
It was about the time that the tiny Somalian team of athletes entered the 2008 Olympics stadium in Beijing that the Georgians realised that having your country named after a US president is not enough to beat the Russian army.
____________________________________________________________
So that's the 2 conflicting former USSR states making history by starting the first former USSR inter-state war covered.
Who wants to be piggy in the middle and get the credit for sorting it out : you might ask?
____________________________________________________________
So far the best hope for an intermediary would appear to be the Ukraine, whose president Viktor Yushchenko has sent his special envoy to the capital of Georgia to urge restraint. This is very important for to the Ukranians for many reasons. Least of all it makes them look good in the eyes of Europe. You may remember how Mr Yushchenko became if not a household name quite probably the only president of a former USSR state whose name you recognise. You'll remember how Viktor had lunch with the chiefs of the Ukranian secret services (who had been trained in the old KGB & have odd fluctuating good/bad relations to the current FSB) & how then Viktor got really ill after that meal & then he went to Switzerland & then London to see the toxicologists. There was quite a bit of speculation as to what had done that to him. Remember he went from matinee good lucks to Chernobyl swarthy alcoholic ugly in a few weeks. Finally people learnt he had been got with "dioxines". Later analysis proved that the dioxines were exactly the same as those that come from Agent Orange the stuff the USA used to drop on Vietnam to kill its weeds and weedy wee children and stop them turning commie. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article403513.ece Yushchenko of course led the Orange party so it was all quite witty.. & quite splendidly he had been given enough agent Orange to make him ugly but not to kill him - but get everyone curious & remember his name and then notice Yulia Tymochenko's plaited hair, which let's be honest got really fashionable for a while. Anyway, I'm sure the Ukranians don't nurse grudges & will be delighted to broker peace. Here's their statement on being up for mediation :-
http://www.mfa.gov.ua/mfa/ua/news/detail/14631.htm
and here's there latest update (which I don't understand only recognising the important words "south" and "ossetia")
http://www.mfa.gov.ua/mfa/en/news/detail/14633.htm
& so let's hope their relevant press office hurries along with English translations.
http://www.mfa.gov.ua/mfa/en
_____________________________________________________________________
In addition the Wikipedia people have started a page on the South Ossetia war.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_South_Ossetia_%282008%29
It's quite a popular thread with the type of people who like writing and re-writing these things as it's "wikirage" profile shows. (Wikirage is a page which shows you which entries are receiving the most edits per unique editor over various periods of time). http://www.wikirage.com/wiki/War_in_South_Ossetia_(2008)/
"The massive, intensive shelling of Tskhinval continues. The city is under the worst shelling. The peaceful population of the capital Tskhinval-RSO is in the shelters in their houses, some of them have no longer this opportunity, because their houses destroyed. There are still a lot of children, women and the elderly in the city at the moment. According to available information at this time, despite ongoing hostilities, the city is not taken by Georgian troops, and continues to resist. Georgian armed formations have pursued a course on the total destruction of Ossetian people. They do everything possible to erase from the face of the earth the Ossetian Human Settlements.
The people of South Ossetia, hoping again to Russia, request assistance in the face of fascism and destruction of Georgia. Guiltless citizens of South Ossetia, Russia citizens are dying in their houses. And the exact number of deaths can not be established."
http://cominf.org/2008/08/08/1166477934.html
that followed quickly on reports of a Georgian bombardment of southern villages and road links running north - south by SU-25 planes. "In these minutes Georgian SU-25 planes dropped bombs on the peaceful citizens of the Republic of South Ossetia. SU-25 also strikes at ossetian village Kvernet, and bypass road,Zar, the only road, which links South Ossetia with the North. Perfidious massive bombardment of Tskhinval by the morning became more intense. In the city and its environs are fighting with heavy weapons. The people of South Ossetia requests assistance from the President of the Russian Federation Dmitry Medvedev and the Government of Russian Federation to take urgent measures to protect the residents of South Ossetia, which are citizens of the Russian Federation and to do everything to stop the genocide of the Ossetian people. According to preliminary data, in the city killed more than 15 civilians. The Georgian convoy of tanks and infantry is moving towards Tshinval. Already devastated a large part of the town. Several buildings in the center of the city burn. Parliament House RYUO burned, the government buildings complex is damaged. High-rise housing and other residential buildings are burning."
http://cominf.org/2008/08/08/1166477932.html
As of 18h53 local time, Cominf Russian Language pages bounce Russian media reports on ethnic cleansing, bombardment of hospitals and largescale refugee movements. http://cominf.org/2008/08/08/1166477947.html
http://cominf.org/
_____________________________________________________________
The people they asked through the tunnels under the mountains to fight their corner and the cause of South Ossetian independence are called "the Russians".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Ossetia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia
You might have heard about their military might which they got through being lucky enough to inherit most of the former USSR's military arsenal and personel. They have not had an opportunity to use them since, least not on another former state of the USSR, this is thus very good for their morale especially as the Georgians are the only former state of the USSR to be named after not just one but three US presidents.
this is the official news agency of Russia http://www.itar-tass.com/eng/
_____________________________________________________________
Now the other side of this first military engagement between 2 former USSR states is as follows.
The Georgians think they are completely to rights to be old-fashioned Serbian if they want to. Their version is of seperatists who don't want to be Georgian and have said so consistently since the USSR ended, being really stroppy lsat night which meant they had to send in precision bombers with laser guided missiles a few hours later they talked to all the diplomatic core and then they talked to the Americans again around tea-time by which stage :-
http://www.mfa.gov.ge/index.php?lang_id=ENG&sec_id=459&info_id=7170
"8 June 2008 it [had] became known to the government of Georgia that on 8 August 2008 large amount of heavy military equipment and personnel belonging to the Russian Federation illegally entered the territory of Georgia through the Roki Tunnel. The Russian side openly declares that the task of these military units is to support the criminal regime of Tskhinvali in the fight against the government of Georgia.
Russian military aircraft three times bombed the Marneuli airbase on the territory of Georgia. Dead and wounded were reported among the base personnel as a result of the bombings while several Georgian airplanes were destroyed"
httpp://www.mfa.gov.ge/index.php?lang_id=ENG&sec_id=1
They are also experiencing server difficulties. & it can be difficult to persuade them to give you a page of information complete with the little cookie. War does that to people, makes them suspicious and stingey and untrustworthy too.
It was about the time that the tiny Somalian team of athletes entered the 2008 Olympics stadium in Beijing that the Georgians realised that having your country named after a US president is not enough to beat the Russian army.
____________________________________________________________
So that's the 2 conflicting former USSR states making history by starting the first former USSR inter-state war covered.
Who wants to be piggy in the middle and get the credit for sorting it out : you might ask?
____________________________________________________________
So far the best hope for an intermediary would appear to be the Ukraine, whose president Viktor Yushchenko has sent his special envoy to the capital of Georgia to urge restraint. This is very important for to the Ukranians for many reasons. Least of all it makes them look good in the eyes of Europe. You may remember how Mr Yushchenko became if not a household name quite probably the only president of a former USSR state whose name you recognise. You'll remember how Viktor had lunch with the chiefs of the Ukranian secret services (who had been trained in the old KGB & have odd fluctuating good/bad relations to the current FSB) & how then Viktor got really ill after that meal & then he went to Switzerland & then London to see the toxicologists. There was quite a bit of speculation as to what had done that to him. Remember he went from matinee good lucks to Chernobyl swarthy alcoholic ugly in a few weeks. Finally people learnt he had been got with "dioxines". Later analysis proved that the dioxines were exactly the same as those that come from Agent Orange the stuff the USA used to drop on Vietnam to kill its weeds and weedy wee children and stop them turning commie. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article403513.ece Yushchenko of course led the Orange party so it was all quite witty.. & quite splendidly he had been given enough agent Orange to make him ugly but not to kill him - but get everyone curious & remember his name and then notice Yulia Tymochenko's plaited hair, which let's be honest got really fashionable for a while. Anyway, I'm sure the Ukranians don't nurse grudges & will be delighted to broker peace. Here's their statement on being up for mediation :-
http://www.mfa.gov.ua/mfa/ua/news/detail/14631.htm
and here's there latest update (which I don't understand only recognising the important words "south" and "ossetia")
http://www.mfa.gov.ua/mfa/en/news/detail/14633.htm
& so let's hope their relevant press office hurries along with English translations.
http://www.mfa.gov.ua/mfa/en
_____________________________________________________________________
In addition the Wikipedia people have started a page on the South Ossetia war.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_South_Ossetia_%282008%29
It's quite a popular thread with the type of people who like writing and re-writing these things as it's "wikirage" profile shows. (Wikirage is a page which shows you which entries are receiving the most edits per unique editor over various periods of time). http://www.wikirage.com/wiki/War_in_South_Ossetia_(2008)/
"almost every sport derives from battle or hunting or gathering skills"
Comments
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as I wrote in the title "(short) war" : Georgians are reported to be retreating
08.08.2008 17:09
That report of retreat is from Russia as of tonight. http://www.russiatoday.ru/ Last night in what is being called the "sniper war" which minds me to think of hyperbolic and regretable Sarajevo terminology, the "Georgia Today" newspaper reported the Georgian President as having given a "no fire" order. Which translates in military lingo as a "withdraw and do not engage but remain mobilised".
http://www.georgiatoday.ge/index.php
* it is pretty clear that there will be no question of NATO intervention. Anyone who suggests there is a case for NATO intervention is more a muppet than I, doesn't read their bible & should quite properly be on industrial strength doses of diazapan.
* I mistakenly wrote "the State information & press commitee of the republic of South Georgia" and not the obvious "State information & press commitee of the republic of South Ossetia" when introducing their appeal for Russian intervention at 13h54 local time (GMT+4)
* Little warning to surfers - most of the state links offered above are well suspicious. If you've something to hide get yourself to a climate camp.
additional news links of varying prejudice & hue :
Tbilisi-based weekly online magazine "Caucaz" in English
http://www.caucaz.com/home_eng/Armenia_Georgia_Azerbaijan.php?pays=5
Svobodnaya Gruzia (Independent Georgia) in Russian.
http://www.svobodnaya-gruzia.com/
Russian langauge South Ossetian pro-independence magazine last updated 2/8/08.
http://ugo-osetia.ru/index.html
Abkhazian News ( in Russian ) bit of date but offers perspective on EU acceptance of Russian interests in Abkhazia as a legitimate 3rd party & speculated last week on free trade area and South Ossetian independence
http://www.abhazia.com/
iosaf
Russia's double standarts
08.08.2008 19:49
Since early this year the insurgents in Ingushetia have been continuously increasing their attacks against the republic's law-enforcement personnel. Last week, however, guerrilla activity on the part of the republic's rebels reached an unprecedented level. According to news reports coming from the republic, at least one policemen or Federal Security Service (FSB) officer was killed or wounded every day there over the past week. Late at night on August 4, rebel squads entered Ingushetia's largest city, Nazran, and attacked mobile police posts. According to the Ingushetiya.ru website, the main targets of the rebels were private houses belonging to Kharun Dzeitov, the republican prime minister, and Khizir Tsoloev, the imam of Nazran. Their houses were attacked with assault rifles and grenade launchers. The militants also fired on police positions in order to prevent possible attempts by police to thwart rebel plans to destroy the houses of the officials. According to the website and official reports (Ingushetiya.ru, Interfax, August 5), police checkpoints came under fire that night near the Dynamo Sports Arena, Tsentr-Kamaz (the elite residential area where houses of high-ranking republican officials are located, including those of the prime minister and of the city's Imam) and Mutalieva Street (also in the Nazran downtown).
According to reports by Ingushetiya.ru on the night of the rebel raid on Nazran (August 4-5), Russian troops that had moved to the center of the city to assist Ingush police units fired at an apartment building on Mutalieva Street. They probably thought that the rebels who fired at the policemen were hiding there. It is noteworthy that the troops did not try to surround the area where they assumed the rebel positions to be, but just fired on the suspected rebel positions. The Russian military and police troops simply blocked all entrances to the Tsentr-Kamaz district of Nazran to defend the houses of Ingush officials. However, the rebel squads had left the area by that time but remained in other parts of the city, including Mutalieva Street. As it later turned out, the rebels controlled the street until the middle of the next day (August 5).
Early on the morning of August 5, Bekhan Burzutanov, a police officer with Ingsushetia's anti-organized crime department, made a grave mistake: he drove to work via Mutalieva Street, thinking that the insurgents had already left. Burzutanov's car was attacked by automatic weapons and grenade launchers and he was killed.
Following that attack, a real rebel bacchanalia started in Ingushetia. Rebel groups moved freely throughout the republic, shooting at any policeman they encountered. During the day on August 5 two police officers from the Central Directorate of the Russian Interior Ministry for the Southern Federal District were attacked on the Kavkaz highway. One of them was killed and another was wounded. A police car in which several policemen were riding came under fire in the village of Ordzhonikidzevskaya, a police station was attacked in the village of Troitskaya and an officer from the republic's anti-organized crime department was killed in his private home in the village of Yandiri during the funeral ceremony for his brother, also a policemen, who had been killed several days earlier.
hi
The real reason for the war it's Stalin's Birth Place.
08.08.2008 21:24
As I written in the title of the resume Pultin's Grandfather was at one time Stalin's cook, because of that, Pultin's own eyes are little roses-tinted. Stalin could have so easily killed Putlin's Grandfather, he needed no reason, just to be there in the wrong place at the wrong time. He was sadly lucky.
So we can say goodbye to the great country of Georgia whilst it completes it's last Olympics and Russia eye turns to the west to retake was has been lost. Which shouldn't be hard as it's already common acknowledge that China plans to take Taiwan by force. If one way or the other tips the wrong way, Russia is free to take Europe back and who know how further they will go?
Pity...
john
interesting bits and pieces added! Some more Links! & a wee comment.
09.08.2008 16:23
Abkhazia is the top left province in the insert of this South Ossetia map
They also raise the Abkhazian conflict card http://www.russiatoday.ru/news/news/28706
IMC Russia has seen one discussion thread on the war begin.
http://ru.indymedia.org/newswire/display/20803/index.php Curiously one of the comments suggests we are all at climate camp.
"Щас все в эко лагере... Некому реагировать на события."
and one call to sympathy http://ru.indymedia.org/newswire/display/20805/index.php which appears to be copy and paste of the Cominf stuff I opened the article above with.
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The BBC though not disagreeing with the premise (& hope) of this piece have in their analysis today suggested there is "no quick fix" to what is still likely to be a "short war". http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7550780.stm They began their piece with the notion that "only old hands" would be able to discuss this without running to pronunciation atlases, wikipedia, the collected clothbound grimoires of Foreign & Commonwealth Office pre- & post- Soviet desk "how to" guides.
I feel almost like a whitehall mandarin in sensible shoes. Which from my home in Barcelona means sucking little oranges in flipflops.
Then I remember that none of us in IMC land really need to know how to pronounce (or in fine BBC tradition teach others to pronounce) either "Abkhazia" or "South Ossetia" & we really are only worried about this being a proxy tiff (Russian backed seperatists against US backed Georgians) which might turn thermo-nuclear global exchange before we've had chance to print up pamphlets, do graffiti stencils and get the vindicated "I told you so" rush of self-satisfaction.
So to briefly recap :
* this will be a short war. not an "over by christmas war but certainly well over by the time the high street christmas shopping lights and decorations are in their place"
* The roots of the conflict are undoubtedly local, ethnic and the potential for conflagration are limited to the current frontiers of Georgia and the emergent legal and trade relations including the autonomous regions seeking independence within Georgia which in addition to singular ethnic identities, historical loyalties also have a whopping huge new bunch of Russian passport holders.
______________________ the wee comment ______________________
I'm not really sure I can go with the "Real reason for this is that Stalin's birthplace is presently in the administrative capital of Eastern Georgia and in neither Southern Ossetia or Georgia proper". That makes as much sense as a "casus belli" (reason for war) as my suggestion that Georgia is the only former USSR State to be named after not only one but three US presidents.
I find the input of the crew of usual suspects (popping in cyberspace) linking all this up to Israel as sadly predictable, that sort of person should be on the industrial strength doses of diazapan I mentioned above. But on that theme, Israel announced earlier in the week that she would sell no more arms to Georgia at Russian request. http://www.stratfor.com/sitrep/israel_georgia_israel_halt_arms_sales_georgia
http://www.russiatoday.ru/news/news/28500
I understand the feelings of panic of those who think this is the first chapter of a war on Iran. But the only strategic fall of dominos on the table which would draw this regional tiff into an Iranian campaign are highly unlikely and hinge on the Turkish state adopting a different long term strategy on the carve-up of Kurdistan which to all purposes it seems to have tacitly agreed with Iran, which is another day's long story, a tale of indecency, perfidity and as it happens chinks in the united face of NATO which have existed to be exploited ever since the Cuban missile crises. Tell ye about that another day with soft rain, a decent umbrella and strong hashish laced cocoa, just like Paddington bear used to have.
******** ____________________This is about ethnicity & statehood & Kosovo __________________*********
Above the website links I supplied fall into 2 general types. The Russian ones are for "pro-Russians" & The English ones are generally for a pro-US readership. But not exclusively The pro-indepedence Abkhaz magazine "Caucaz" currently carries an interview with Temur Iakobashvili, Georgia’s State Minister for Issues of Reintegration. That the Georgians have such a ministry suggests it really is something worth its own stationery, phone lines, budget, civil service & press statements. If there is a "long war" Mr Iakobashviki will be out of a job. His pitch last May might surprise many observers (be they old hands or not) - I doth quote :
Caucaz : "You declared in Brussels that the risk of war with Russia is close. Was this declaration intended as a wake-up call for the European Union or is the Georgian government genuinely considering military action?"
Iakobashvili : "I made a longer statement and in this longer version I provided rationale to explain why I think we are close to war. The information I gave was that we know Russia’s behaviour very well. We are enormously alarmed when we see quite intensive anti-Georgian propaganda in the Russian media, when we see not only talk, but also very active actions from the Russian side such as illegally moving troops to Georgian territory and violating all sorts of agreements. For example, I do not know since when paratroopers are considered peacekeepers…"
__________ [ he obiously should go to Rome where paratroopers are patrolling the streets protecting people from gypsies, Romanians, and people who carry the gene for premature pattern balding and inexplicably still have virile hairy hair c/f this report on the deployment of the Italian army on its streets last week http://indymedia.org.uk/en/2008/08/405498.html ]
now bearing in mind the cynical and sarcastic blade of the last joke and Europe's ewll emerged racism and intolerance of Eastern Europeans check out this bit of the interview.
Caucaz : "Why do you think it is in the EU’s interest to support Georgia?"
Iakobashvili : "It is the EU's job to support Georgia because we are talking about the European Neighbourhood Policy, the European Energy Security Policy and all other policies that are important for the EU. In this regard, what is happening in Georgia is a clear attempt by Russia to redesign Eastern Europe. This is why I think the EU cannot remain neutral on the sidelines."
http://www.caucaz.com/home_eng/breve_contenu.php?id=343&PHPSESSID=d8024b0fead5672a5f00ec17d9a32e32
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Now if you remember how Kosovo began, it was the USA who wanted to redraw the map of Eastern Europe.
If you put Georgia through Google looking for a map, you get a state of the USA. I presume if you ask the average European to list the countries of Europe, Georgia will not figure on the list. Yet the Georgians of the pro-US and pro-NATO type really think they are "European". With all lack of irony they insist that their sovreignity should hold sway equally over South Ossetia and Abkhazia as that of Belgrade demanded Bosnia, Montenegro & Kosovo.
Kosovo is de facto a EU/NATO protectorate where British troops are stationed and toothless & powerless UN offices have been opened and worthless currency issued. Since that process in February 2008 - both South Ossetia and Abkhazia went to the UN for their slice of the "ethnically homogeneous statehood" cake.
It ought surprise nobody if South Ossetia now becomes a protectorate of Russia and then just as the happy Kosovars waved Albanian rather than their own flags about the place, the South Ossetians wave Russian flags..,
iosaf (not the sporting name I used yesterday)
Homepage: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_South_Ossetia_War
as Georgia calls a ceasefire : updates = Big boys talk & little folk run.
10.08.2008 16:05
things every refugee should have so as not be thought a vagrant.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7552659.stm
New York Times reports that the Russians have all but every piece of rubble of South Ossetia
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/11/world/europe/11georgia.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin
That means big boys can talk, because this story has so far not produced any big ladies (other than Condoleeza Rice).
First big boy to put his elbows on the table was Mr Putin. You might remember Mr Putin as being the face of Russia & the person who we generally blame for the uppermost responbility if not the actual idea putting agent Orange in Ukranian Viktor's lunch and Polonium 210 (A cigarette additive) in Alexander Litvinenko's seafood ensuring he was the second person in history to die from it [the first being some poor sod who worked in Madame Curie's lab].
Mr Putin is no longer president of Russia & might be forgiven sarcastically quiping how everything has gone to shite since he stepped down. He had a chat with George Bush (one of the US president's Georgia is named after) in Beijing last Friday. He has now flown back to personally supervise refugees (little folk) and "reconstruction". He is reported "to have allocated around $US 400 million for reconstruction of South Ossetia and is personally supervising refugee care and arrangements in Northern Ossetia." http://www.russiatoday.ru/news/news/28720 (as an aside : You might remember I covered mr Putin's plans for the building of a mausoleum on the scale of Arlington in Virginia USA for fallen military heroes and future (or past heads of state), we may presume some corpses of the South Ossetian war will end up there. https://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2008/05/399321.html )
Which almost brings me to the little folk.................but hold your horses.
Mr Bush who has also left the Beijing Olympics gurgled about the territorial integrity of Georgia in his first statement. The president of Georgia has confined his latest appeals for US support to playing the role of "mediatorship" or "piggy in the middle". He thus joins the EU and OCSE in trying to talk talk out of this. The French are also urging dialogue asap and their media was the first western outfit of information handling to hint that the Georgians were asking for a ceasefire last night. Since when the idea has gone from a good one to quite popular.
Meanwhile the UK FCO issued one of their usual bits of sensible shoe advice.
Obviously having read a panicked thread on IMC UK yesterday http://indymedia.org.uk/en/2008/08/405968.html the FCO advised Britons in South Ossieta, Abkhazia, and [this is interesting] _the upper Kodori_ to stay at home if they have already stocked up on beans & candles. They are also advised against inviting their family, penpals or business partners to stay the weekend. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7551578.stm Translated into IMC anarcho-readiness lingo - this standard advice falls very short of codified tips on raiding the local veterinary supply stores for anything which includes thyroxine or methimazole in the ingredients and then stewing up some counter-radiation sickness broth.
Now the little folk.
It is a general principle of warfare as opposed say to natural disaster that those who would make the best truthful witnesses to what has occured are the first to leave. Generally in natural disasters their exit routes are complicate the "ducking and diving" instinct which war brings to the fore.
The UNHCR (people who count refugees) estimate 7,500 people have been displaced by this 3 day conflict. the Russian state puts the figure at 30,000. I have attached a wee illustration of what a refugee needs. admittedly in the photograph one can not see a "waterproof container" which should hang on a string around your neck for your title deeds: rentbook, school certificates, driving license, dental records, insurance polices, pawnbroker tickets, prescription drugs, holy relics, passport, social security number, bank statements & so on so forth - the important things which will help whomever gets the onorous task of reconstructing the rubble you left behind.
you will also notice I have included a watch in the illustration of what a refugee needs. Very useful, not for considering the passing of time, but for swapping and bartering, bribing or gifting.
useful tip : try not to swap your watch for cigarettes. If you find yourself either a refugee of war or natural disaster you might consider you have finally facilitated in kicking nicotiene.
it is a filthy habit after all.
iosaf
Homepage: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_South_Ossetia_%282008%29
as Russia reject ceasefire? What do Bigboys talk? Brits form orderly queue.
10.08.2008 19:53
There are some very important indications of how the big boys are talking.
* Conflict parties' media portals are now moving to include ordinary people not just pictures of tanks or missiles.
Georgian news tonight carries as top breaking news, a letter of support from a Polish man, Janek Stankiewicz who has he says lived in Warsaw for 42 years & blames Mr Putin not Mr Medvedev. http://www.georgiatoday.ge/news_details.php?id=3&version=420 You might not that Janek shares a name with a prominent Belarussian activist of the Polish republic in the 1920's http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Stankiewicz
Whilst Russian news tonight has fished out a neutral American citizen Joe Mestas, who living in South Ossetia but not a refugee makes the second class of witness. He tells them about "everything happening in the region" and usefully "blamed U.S. and Georgian leaders for the outbreak of violence." great little video for those who like even white teeth. http://www.russiatoday.ru/news/news/28788
Lest we forget, the EU is now led by France. & its minister for foreign affairs Bernard Kouchner has in his gurglings to telly tonight mentioned that Europe can not tolerate such things happening on its doorstep, especially when such things are medieval. Quite right too. We may remember that when Europe's doorstep was closer to us in those now distant days when a Europe from the Atlantic to the Urinal was an ambitious dream, that the break-up of Yugoslavia excited all these gurglings.
For those of you who are too young to remember the Yugoslavian wars, they were very very medieval and right on our doorstep. The recognition of Kosovo last February was considered to be a Rennaisance if not Enlightenment which not only made it possible for Radovan Karadzic to shave off his medieval beard but for the medieval folk of both South Ossetia and Abkhazia ask the UN to recognise their statehood.
Q: How bad are things on the ground?
A: they're shite, naturally but not quite the worst example of war we've ever seen on colour TV. In the last 3 days as little folk have been walking about the place an extraordinarily varied number of European correspondents have managed to get it. Flicking through Sat channels tonight I found high quality telephone reports being made at nightly news time in some of Europe's minority tongues. There are speakers of Basque, Catalan and Arabic reporting to EU telly on what's going on there. It's Summer time which is always better than Winter. & so far there are no reports of unconventional weapons or illegal ordinance such as cluster bombs or landmines being used.
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Q: So why did the Russians reject the ceasefire plea of the Georgians?
I reckon there are 3 possibilities.
(a) Always look for money - Putin allocated yesterday as reported in the last comment $US 400 million for reconstruction of South Ossetia. Did Georgia offer to throw anything in the pot with its ceasefire?
(b) they're on a roll and would like to take the irritating Mikheil Saakashvili out of power & reverse the whole "rose revolution" thing & bring back Eduard Shevardnadze. That's not my idea but one which has popped up on the Russian IMC discussion thread.
(c) & this is my honest opinion :
Russia hasn't rejected ceasefire proposals - they're just stalling their implementation. Since we have not read the terms of the unilateral ceasefire suggestion in any of our Sunday newspapers - we can't rule out the traditional midnight local time clause.
iosaf
Homepage: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_South_Ossetia_%282008%29
Fog of War.
11.08.2008 12:26
Indeed, US Marines were training the Georgian Military, and probably a contingent flogging them some arms for training purposes as well, with a view to a larger order later on. The US will arm Georgia, but not risk pouring in any other overt support.
I don't buy the idea of Russia, being a supporter of independence for small states. Russia is a massive military/KGB kleptocracy, whose government tramples over peoples rights whenever they conflict with Kremlin plans. One need only see their behavior in Ingushetia or Chechnya to see that their claims to be concerned with Human Rights are about as credible as those of G.W. Bush as he presides over the murderous pillaging of Iraq.
No doubt both sides have been amassing forces recently, and it will probably be some time from now before we get to the truth or otherwise of reports that Georgia sent it's military into South Ossetia in response to a series of co-ordinated attacks on ethnic Georgian villages.
either
(a) this never happened, the Georgian's are making it up to cover up their aggression or
(b) there were localised attacks, which the Georgian's foolishly over-reacted to
(c) the attacks by "South Ossetians" on Georgian villages was staged by Russian undercover forces, as a way of drawing in Georgian forces, as a trigger for a Russian Assault.
The Russian Airforce wasted little time bombing Georgian Military airports as well as the main civilian airport. There have also been serious co-ordinated Cyber attacks on Georgian Banks and government departments, similar in scale and nature to those carried out on Estonia last year. They have already bombed a strategic port, which amongst other things is supposed to be the end point for a pipeline coming from the landlocked Caspian Sea (plenty of oil and gas there), and reportedly have sunk a Georgian Naval vessel. Given than South Ossetia is landlocked, the Russians were not exactly sinking the Georgian Navy to protect the South Ossetians now were they?
Watch out for other trouble being stirred up by agents unknown in the other quasi autonomous enclaves of Georgia.
It is nice to see some peaceful solidarity being offered by Poland, who have helped to keep some Georgian websites open, and the Ukraine has stated that is reserving the right to bar Russian vessels from the port in Sebastopol (where the Black Sea fleet of Russia's Navy is based) hence putting pressure on Russia not to blockade Georgia.
It is this type of solidarity that is needed and desired rather than the mad cold war strategies of escalating force.
Of course, whether the US and EU summon up courage to sanction Russia, given that the EU depends on Russia for a lot of it's energy supplies, (and most EU citizens are not very quick to become more sustainable).
And so, in the meantime, another small country gets caught up in the game between NATO and Russia.
Expect more lies and atrocities to follow, followed by hand wringing and a lack of clear history of the conflict.
ClearAsMud
wars in the pipeline
11.08.2008 13:42
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5gVEVAFFG3fCTHSyXJtrW3C6quvWQ
Click on the link. The war in Georgia has disrupted oil flow through that country, and now the oil company may have to export the oil through an alternative pipeline, via Russia.
It also says that Russian planes staged a raid near the Baku-Tblisi -Ceyhan pipeline.
And the last line might be the most important one.
"In recent years Georgia has become an important transport route for oil from Azerbaijan and other Caspian Sea oil producers, allowing Western oil firms to bypass Russia's oil pipelines."
oil addict
midnight never comes : Cheney wants Nuclear War : Russia is a Superpower
11.08.2008 14:04
excerpt from Wikipedia : "During the early morning 11/8 Moscow time, Russia declared itself ready to make peace with Georgia. U.N. officials confirmed that Georgia was prepared to negotiate with Russia by withdrawing troops from the breakaway province of South Ossetia and creating a safe travel zone. Russian Ambassador Vitaly Churkin said Russia is "ready to put an end to the war," but also accused the U.N. secretary-general's office of taking Georgia's side. The agreement was confirmed by U.N. Undersecretary-General for Political Affairs, B. Lynne Pascoe, during a briefing to the Security Council. http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1831215,00.html
South Ossetia government representative Irina Gagloeva stated the morning of August 11 that Georgia opened the irrigation canal to flood the basements of Tskhinvali buildings, thus preventing civilians from hiding from bombings. http://lenta.ru/news/2008/08/11/flood/ At approximately 19:15 Georgian time, Georgia "received a Russian ultimatum that it must disarm troops near the breakaway province of Abkhazia or face Russian forces moving into Georgian-controlled territory", a demand conveyed "through U.N. military observers in the area". http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gqI_T1AcjbA1Q67UBE01lvcAdQdQD92FVCOO0 Russian assistant commander Alexander Novitskiy reported on the morning of 11 August that 9,000 Russian troops and 350 armored vehicles had entered Abkhazia during the evening of August 10. http://lenta.ru/news/2008/08/11/abkhazia/
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The BBC have joined us (whoever reads this thread) in that type of cynicism which really is a proper emotional reaction to not only war in general but any war which involves a superpower.
Ah! now that's something the youngest generation almost had brainwashed out of them, the acceptance that Russia is a superpower.
Here you can read the BBC's "Early lessons from S Ossetia conflict" which start off with the pragmatic tip "Do not punch a bear on the nose unless it is tied down". These are the people who brought Борат Сагдійев (Borat) to prominence on their Comedy Nation slot. don't forget.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7553390.stm It's a good starter guide, I wouldn't archive it were it not.
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Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili obviously read the last comment because last night he followed up on US suggestions that the Russians want to get rid of his government. His PR people are making sure everyone knows too and headlines to the effect are popping up globally. Which ought bring us to pondering how did Mikheil Saakashvili word his ceasefire.
http://www.georgiatoday.ge/news_details.php?id=4&version=420
Therein you learn that "a humanitarian corridor has been opened in the south of Tskhinvali" which of course was requested by the Red + Cross (the real one not the pretend Colombian special forces one) 3 days ago : http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hErvc9T_6mQoGcFRRF2tBNuy2S8AD92E13F00
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2 journalist Giga Chikhladze and Alexander Klimchuk are reported to have died in Tskhinvali, South Ossetia. It's a dangerous job unless you work for Foxnews, CNN or have special magical powers like John Simpson. (we may never forget how he liberated Kabul). Although these two journalists are Georgian nationalists they were employed by the Russian registered title of Newsweek which is an international magazine with 22 offices globally and ultimately controlled by the Washington Post.
That should bring us to considering press freedom in Georgia.
http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=25482
and comparing it to press freedom in Russia
http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=25500
Those last 2 links being the RSF 2008 reports which are just a few months out-of-date. If you can't be bothered with that, the folk at RSF rate Russia at 140th most free and Georgia at 94th most free. To put that in perspective the UK shares 28th position with Hungary and its partner in Iraq occupation the sunny El Salvador. the folk at RSF rate Ireland as the most free press environment on planet Earth, they obviously never had dealings with indymedia.ie
We may now leave the Georgian side of things with today's "appeal to mothers and wives of Russian soldiers" which is by all accounts being broadcast at Ivan on the wireless.
:- "............We, the Women of Georgia, mothers and wives of Georgians, Russians, Ossetians, Abkhaz, Armenians, Azeri, Ukrainians, Kurds, Assyrians, Jews, Greeks and of many others; We appeal to you, to the mothers who have suffered profound grief of Afghanistan and Chechnya. The Women of Russia, do you hear us? We have not yet started mourning the dead, as still we have to save those alive. The Women of Russia!!! Today we share the same pain, the same woe!!! We together face the death, we together look into her eyes through the eyes of our sons, husbands and fathers. And this pain is worse than death; you know this!..........."
You'll notice they left out the Turkish there. Odd, the Turkish are giving the electricity they need to send these very old fashioned messages. http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSIST00224320080808 But they have problems of their own, you know. Soldiers being bombed by seperatists and a fire in a pipeline. Yep. That pipeline. http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/feedarticle/7716124
Whereas the French consider pro-US Georgia to be Europeans or at least on Europe's doorstep - Turkey which geographically stretches for literally one thousand miles between the EU and Georgia never really got its sandals over the threshold.
which brings me to today's 2nd point : Hypocrisy.
The 1st point being it's passed time younger folk realised that Russia is & always was a superpower.
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& I hope you notice I'm not encouraging people who should read the bible or take diapazan by linking to Dick Cheney's tough words urging people in the region to go ballistic and nuke Ivan. Maybe they should let the Iranians have the bomb after all. Iran could nuke Ivan and Ivan could nuke Iran back.
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iosaf
Homepage: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_South_Ossetia_%282008%29
dot dots - slash teas...........Russia has ceased military operations.
12.08.2008 14:31
WE go several ways now :
A compilation thread of all sources and IMC articles https://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2008/08/406523.html
1) the opening of the sluicegates of the opinion bullshit reservoir. Every third rate hack will tell us what happened and what it means and then thankfully Julie Birchill will write a book telling us it was all middle class snobbery.
2) Borat will become popular again.
3) Some Refugees will go home but many will not - they will soon stop being refugees and become something easier to manage like illegal humans or unwanted migrants.
4) Investigation will begin into the allegations of genocide. Important that.
5) Iraq will wait with baited breath to see if the occupying Georgian army of 2,000 soldiers is flown back to occupy it by Halliburton.
6) I suggest what we really do is parse the propaganda & cynicism of the last week. For it is not done and dusted or even near it. Though it might seem uninteresting, shortwave signals are still being blocked across the bands & a few dozen websites are still down or more tellingly haven't been updated by their administrators. This war combined old and trusted methodology of psy-war and some quite new stuff too.
new thread https://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2008/08/406523.html
iosaf
Homepage: http://https://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2008/08/406523.html