Thats what the mainstream media had to say about the demonstration outside HLS after the march around Peterborough...be patient and the real news will come.

As for the AUTONOMOUS bloc, maybe it was because of  http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2008/07/403096.html that people didn't bother...

This particular demo was I understand going to be a march round the town followed by going to the the gates of HLS. I have been to almost every major Shac demo. The last two at the gates have been frankly pointless. There are near to no staff at weekends and the police and security mean that any naughtiness is near impossible.

I have been doing SHAC demos since the beginning of the campaign and I've become disillusioned with the whole culture. The philosophy of the demos seem to be 'lets be as angry as possible' and shout 'close down HLS!'. For me, city demonstrations/marches are an outreach tactic and people don't react well to angry people. Think about it. When you see someone shouting in the street do you wonder what he's saying? Will he influence you? Or, do you just think 'that guy is a nutter!' I'm afraid most people would feel the latter.

The successes of SHAC have been that of intimidation and embaressment; e.g. harrass a managing director of shareholder company by doing a demo at his home;
Embaress the company by having demos outside of their offices in the city, etc. The police in outlawing home demos and publishing home addresses stopped this tactic rendering the campaign ineffective.

The SHAC 'leaders' promised we would close the lab in 3 years when it started, then they turned it to '5 years' and now they only speak of 'we'll never quit!' Maybe it's time to try another approach. Vivisection has continued to rise unabbaited since SHAC began and what has the movement got to show for what it has done aside from a list of new laws stiffling protest?

Does this answer at all the question as to why so few were there? Am I wrong?

To “me”:

I was there and 250 was probably accurate in my humble opinion

To “Ex-SHAC”:

Support from the public was quite good so I think your wrong on that count. But your right about standing outside HLS when it is all but empty.

However not coming on the march is the wrong attitude, it fits in with HLS’s current line “all the extremists are locked up” so “we are a normal business now”. It doesn’t look good on the movement.

HLS is a big job and it will take time, however SHAC tactics were slowly taking effect. This was not in the interests of the powers that be and they seem to have successfully toned down SHAC. The government has successfully scared people with new laws. The laws should have lead to even more resistance not the fear intended.

Additionally, I feel that SHAC has been infiltrated allowing this toning down to happen. If you think I’m silly watch “True Spies” the television documentary (copy on Youtube) the police plants and funds agents on a long-term basis within the animal rights field. Also think about it, they locked up the leaders, do you think they would let other radicals take there place?

Dear Ex Shac,

Yes people out here, do have half a brain. They can also read between the lines, especially yours.

"Think about it. When you see someone shouting in the street do you wonder what he's saying? Will he influence you? Or, do you just think 'that guy is a nutter!' I'm afraid most people would feel the latter."

Yes, I have thought about it, and I'm afraid you thought wrong!

If I saw someone shouting in the street, holding a placard with a picture of a butchered, mutilated animal on it. I would want to listen and find out what they were shouting about.

I unlike you, attended the Saturday demonstration. I don't recollect seeing any hysterical, angry people.

However, I was aware of lots of strongly motivated people, chanting in unison very loudly. Attracting the attention of many members of the public who were out and about on Saturday.

I'd call Saturday, Mission Accomplished and make no mistake, we will be back, stronger than ever.

I think it such a shame that the police can post on Indymedia with such ease.

ttfn

A nutter.

Peaceful campaigners being locked up for operating websites? The criminalisation of protest by SOCPA is only pushing activists underground...with more activists joining the aboveground every day. Love live the resistance!

"I'd call Saturday, Mission Accomplished and make no mistake, we will be back, stronger than ever."

I'm afraid this is the very problem. It's going through the motions, feeling like you've done something activism rather than actually acheiving anything.

At these demos a lot of information is given out and the issues are raised which is great but do you think we are making grounds with these same old marches, same old speeches? There must be some reason why the demos are shrinking year by year.

Well said 'Ex SHAC'.

At last it seems that a few people MIGHT just be waking up and coming to realise that the current methods of fighting vivisection are hopeless and going no-where. Yes I have said all this before, for what it was worth, but these matters need emphasising regularly.

Clearly what the 'movement' needs is the application of a little brain, rather than brawn (and there isn't even much of that in sight if reports of last Saturday are to be believed).

Ex SHAC you are correct in saying that most people think animal rights people are nutters. Not simply perceived as 'terrorists', but worse than that - a threat to the health of themselves and their loved ones through trying to stop what they perceive as 'life-saving medical research'. This is why in its current form the AV 'movement' will never get the wide-spread public support that it desperately needs if vivisection is to be abolished, simply because most within the animal rights movement has put what makes them feel good before educating the public about the true nature of vivisection and its negative impact on human health.

The AV 'movement' all but died along with the death of AV author and pioneer Hans Ruesch last year, though I still hold out some hope that at some stage the general consciousness of the 'movement' will miraculously be raised to the level whereby people cast aside their egos and do what has to be done: a sustained attack on the medical- pharmaceitical industry that kills countless animals and, more importantly (from an abolitionist point of view) HUMAN BEINGS each year. When the public learns of this then perhaps things will start to look up.

Sadly, at present, many campaigners seem happy to continue to ridicule the movement by dressing up as rabbits and hopping about deserted city streets. It is time to put aside that which makes us feel good (getting "as angry as possible"), and to wake up to the reality of the situation. I see that an advert for some 'carnival against vivisection' displays the same dumb message, a rabbit saying 'scum'. Now what sort of image does this portray to the average person?

For the foreseeable future there is very very little chance of vivisection being abolished, and the failure of the SPEAK campaign is very much proof of this. Who knows, perhaps vivisection will continue until the end of time?

Are there any anti-vivisectionists out there who have the guts to start afresh the anti-vivisection movement?

Regards, Chris

TIME TO FACE THE FACTS - The Struggle to End Vivisection -

 http://www.vivisectionfraud.com/facefacts.html

maybe the numbers are down cos after all this time the people motiviated around this issue are fewer than ever...? I'm not an animal rights supporter but i can se that if i were issues like, i dunno, the daily masss slaughter of millions of animals for food would be of more concern.

I spent a couple of hours on saturday talking to a girl I recently convinced to give up meat, and giving her a list of vegetarian alcoholic drinks. Now THAT'S direct action. Not that I'm quite sure why I'm being questioned on my whereabouts by SHAC, but you asked, and there's your answer.

Large scale protests, and even small ones, will not close HLS alone. Everyone knows that and nobody pretends otherwise. It is a combination of action that will close HLS. But the campaign needs a real manifestation, not everyone is up for all aspects of animal rights.

If you really feel so disillusioned with the demos then I hope you're now embarking on more effective forms of action instead, rather than just dropping out.

TIME TO FACE THE FACTS - The Struggle to End Vivisection...?

For some reason you seem to think that if everybody in the world knew about the fraudulent science that is vivisection, that it would end.

So we could of ended the slave trade without an underground railroad? Jewish resistance fighters shouldn't of sabotaged chambers but educated Nazis? Women should of just preached to others instead of take direct action for their rights? Anti-war activists shouldn't be trashing arms dealers because 3 million marching against the war would of ended it instead of 2 million?

The only illusion is education will lead to change. Education will ONLY lead to change when there are those who are willing to act upon the knowledge.

Education isn't the solution - Education is Power!

Of course just dressing up like bunnies and just calling animal abusers murderers isn't going to end it alone, its going to also take the powerful facts which you have in your leaflets and the direct approach from militant activists costing big pharma big bucks.

Without animal rights in the anti-vivisection movement, there frankly wouldn't be any direct opposition to vivisection apart from your literature!! Yes not everyone is going to learn about vivisection from the sight of animal cruelty, in EXACTLY the same way not every adult is going to want to learn about vivisection because "drugs kill people".

The majority of people know that animals are tortured - and everybody knows that drugs kill people!

The public just need to keep being reminded...

Yours Sincerely,
Faithful Customers

There has never been a better time for AV, especially HLS. Getting loans is harder than ever so AV people just need to keep the pressure up and the loans will be called in.

I still don't understand why no-one takes the state aid issue to the European Courts as State aid of a private company is pretty much a no-no and yet the British Government flouts this law and provides an immense amount of state aid to these companies.

End it in the courts as well as all the other methods!