Another step through the looking glass
Could be Lucy bit isn't | 16.04.2008 15:19
There has been an interesting exchange on the newsline moderation lists. As usual the IMC admin "ftp" has hidden any comment which questions his view of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. A reader objected to this and wrote a polite email to the lists (exactly as we are all told we should do rather than posting to the newsline), the email was ignored for a month so she wrote again, her mail was detailed and raised important points and forced a reply from "ftp". Regular readers of IndyMedia will not be surprised to know the form his reply took.
a) Every post that shows Israel or Jews in a positive regard is the posting of a single Troll
b) Every post that "ftp" does not like is from the same single Troll
c) Because "ftp" has been to Nablus he knows better than everybody else so he can decide what is real and what is not
d) If you question "ftp" you are in some way a white South african supporter of Apartheid (???)
Aside from the increasingly bizzare world that "ftp" seems to inhabit I ask why the detailed points raised by Lucy were not answered, she has followed the correct procedure but as we have become used to "ftp" ignores all this and responds with his favourite excuse "a troll", this troll according to "ftp" posts hundreds of times a day at all hours of the day and night.
The long and disturbing history of regular anti-semitism on the UK IndyMedia site has never been fully dealt with and continues to be a stain on the site. The recent Atzmon - Greenstein debacle did enourmous damage to the reputation of the newsline and despite that it seems that "ftp" is still prepared to adopt an anti-Jewish position, it seems with the tacit approval of other moderators who are noticable by their silence. (again like Atzmon - Greenstein)
I have reproduced below the orginal communication so readers can judge for themselves the reality of the situation.
a) Every post that shows Israel or Jews in a positive regard is the posting of a single Troll
b) Every post that "ftp" does not like is from the same single Troll
c) Because "ftp" has been to Nablus he knows better than everybody else so he can decide what is real and what is not
d) If you question "ftp" you are in some way a white South african supporter of Apartheid (???)
Aside from the increasingly bizzare world that "ftp" seems to inhabit I ask why the detailed points raised by Lucy were not answered, she has followed the correct procedure but as we have become used to "ftp" ignores all this and responds with his favourite excuse "a troll", this troll according to "ftp" posts hundreds of times a day at all hours of the day and night.
The long and disturbing history of regular anti-semitism on the UK IndyMedia site has never been fully dealt with and continues to be a stain on the site. The recent Atzmon - Greenstein debacle did enourmous damage to the reputation of the newsline and despite that it seems that "ftp" is still prepared to adopt an anti-Jewish position, it seems with the tacit approval of other moderators who are noticable by their silence. (again like Atzmon - Greenstein)
I have reproduced below the orginal communication so readers can judge for themselves the reality of the situation.
Hi Lucy
The troll I am referring to is one individual who has targetted this site for
some time.
I've heard the "you have to live here to understand what is going on" line
before. White South Africans used it often during the Apartheid era.... turned
out they were the only ones who didn't understand what was really going on.
You and me are not going to agree on the Israel/Palestine issue, are we? Having
spent time on a Kibbutz, and in Nablus, I am very clear in my mind about the
'complexities' of the situation......
Have a lovely life.
ftp
Quoting Lucy Fisher :
> Concerning my email last month.
>
> Ftp, in your answer to me at the top of this list you refer to "a troll".
> Do you mean a troll is anyone who posts or comments to challenge the
> position, Israel all bad, Palestinians all good, etc? On what basis do you
> say only one person is doing this? Aren't there lots of different IP#s
> involved (I don't know)?
>
> For example it seems I was assumed to be the same Lucy quoted in the list
> posts "Disingenous 'trolling'" - well I'm not, don't know her and had
> nothing to do with the hidden post referred to.
>
> Has it not occurred to you that simply, quite a lot of people in the
> big-city middle classes from which much of the hippy movement springs are
> Jewish or part Jewish, and so, whatever their politics, and will speak up at
> any portrayal of the Arab-Israeli conflict as a pure black-and-white issue?
> Is a Jew who tries to submit evidence that the issue isn't pure black and
> white, by definition a troll?
>
> There is a kind of bullying, where rather than saying "we don't mind black
> people so long as they behave themselves", it's "we don't mind Jews so long
> as they don't say anything that challenges the view we want to give that
> Israel is all bad and Hamas/Palestinians are are all good, or mention
> anti-semitic attacks".
>
> Is it not a double standard that while the comments to the Free Tibet story
> were hidden as non news/troll (as discussed above in this list answer to
> "Plebs"), on the other hand the anti-semitic conspiracy comments in 395737,
> 395745 by "Ordinary Joe"/"Joe Meek" were considered valid while "Strepsil"'s
> complaints about them were hidden?
>
> Also in 396121, Gehrig is told in hidden posts that he is complaining about
> moderation in the wrong place - well I complained here previously and I am
> still awaiting with interest the explanations of the specific instances I
> highlighted in (2),(3)(i)-(vi) in
>
http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-uk-moderation/2008-March/0328-ha.html.
> -
> any answers?
>
> Shiar you replied "don't expect any support" re (3), well I did not ask for
> support, I asked why you or whoever it is feels the need to hide those
> comments - this list is the place to direct such queries is it not?
>
> More recently the hiding of the comments to 395739 about Hamas links to the
> ICS, why were these hidden? Is it forbidden to submit evidence of Hamas
> links to incidents or organizations? Isn't this hasbara for Hamas then?
>
> And concerning the hiding of the comment with evidence for criticising Dr
> Ilan Pappe I wrote about previously, are there any other public figures of
> whom criticising is banned on IMC-UK?
The troll I am referring to is one individual who has targetted this site for
some time.
I've heard the "you have to live here to understand what is going on" line
before. White South Africans used it often during the Apartheid era.... turned
out they were the only ones who didn't understand what was really going on.
You and me are not going to agree on the Israel/Palestine issue, are we? Having
spent time on a Kibbutz, and in Nablus, I am very clear in my mind about the
'complexities' of the situation......
Have a lovely life.
ftp
Quoting Lucy Fisher :
> Concerning my email last month.
>
> Ftp, in your answer to me at the top of this list you refer to "a troll".
> Do you mean a troll is anyone who posts or comments to challenge the
> position, Israel all bad, Palestinians all good, etc? On what basis do you
> say only one person is doing this? Aren't there lots of different IP#s
> involved (I don't know)?
>
> For example it seems I was assumed to be the same Lucy quoted in the list
> posts "Disingenous 'trolling'" - well I'm not, don't know her and had
> nothing to do with the hidden post referred to.
>
> Has it not occurred to you that simply, quite a lot of people in the
> big-city middle classes from which much of the hippy movement springs are
> Jewish or part Jewish, and so, whatever their politics, and will speak up at
> any portrayal of the Arab-Israeli conflict as a pure black-and-white issue?
> Is a Jew who tries to submit evidence that the issue isn't pure black and
> white, by definition a troll?
>
> There is a kind of bullying, where rather than saying "we don't mind black
> people so long as they behave themselves", it's "we don't mind Jews so long
> as they don't say anything that challenges the view we want to give that
> Israel is all bad and Hamas/Palestinians are are all good, or mention
> anti-semitic attacks".
>
> Is it not a double standard that while the comments to the Free Tibet story
> were hidden as non news/troll (as discussed above in this list answer to
> "Plebs"), on the other hand the anti-semitic conspiracy comments in 395737,
> 395745 by "Ordinary Joe"/"Joe Meek" were considered valid while "Strepsil"'s
> complaints about them were hidden?
>
> Also in 396121, Gehrig is told in hidden posts that he is complaining about
> moderation in the wrong place - well I complained here previously and I am
> still awaiting with interest the explanations of the specific instances I
> highlighted in (2),(3)(i)-(vi) in
>
http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-uk-moderation/2008-March/0328-ha.html. > -
> any answers?
>
> Shiar you replied "don't expect any support" re (3), well I did not ask for
> support, I asked why you or whoever it is feels the need to hide those
> comments - this list is the place to direct such queries is it not?
>
> More recently the hiding of the comments to 395739 about Hamas links to the
> ICS, why were these hidden? Is it forbidden to submit evidence of Hamas
> links to incidents or organizations? Isn't this hasbara for Hamas then?
>
> And concerning the hiding of the comment with evidence for criticising Dr
> Ilan Pappe I wrote about previously, are there any other public figures of
> whom criticising is banned on IMC-UK?
Could be Lucy bit isn't