Every failure to vote on 1 May is a vote for the BNP
Antifa | 11.04.2008 12:14 | Anti-racism
Every failure to vote on 1 May is a vote for the BNP
By Steve Platt
I bumped into Ken Livingstone this morning, canvassing for the May elections at the Nag’s Head shopping centre, on Holloway Road, with my local MP Jeremy Corbyn. On a day when all the headlines were about Ken’s ‘secret’ kids and Boris Johnson’s teenage drug-taking (neither of which was actually ‘news’ or, to most people, surprising), Livingstone was raising a more important issue – and one that may prove to be of the most lasting consequence when the votes for the London Assembly are counted.
This is, quite simply, ensuring the biggest possible turnout on 1 May to prevent the British National Party from gaining representation in the government of London.
As Ken Livingstone’s campaign declared today, ‘One of the things at stake in this election is London's future as a united diverse city, where all communities and individuals feel they belong. The British National Party is a direct threat to that unity ...
‘We have to get across one simple fact: there’s only one way to stop the BNP, which is by actually going out to vote against them. A low voter turnout will help the BNP get elected. For the fascists, success means getting 5 per cent of the total London vote. The higher the turnout the harder it is for them jump the five per cent hurdle.’
Earlier in the week, at the London Evening Standard hustings, when asked to sum up his message in 60 seconds, Livingstone devoted most of his allotted time to an appeal for voters of all parties to turn out to stop the BNP. ‘Vote for me, Boris, Brian Paddick or Sian Berry, but don't let the BNP get a seat,’ he said.
It’s not exactly a revolutionary appeal from the one-time author of If Voting Changed Anything, They’d Abolish It, but it’s none the less important for all that. The BNP’s attempt to make racism respectable has enjoyed more local successes, including in parts of London, than any far-right party since the second world war. Even one of their number obtaining a platform at City Hall would be an advance to top all that they have achieved so far.
No excuses, then, my anarchist friends: every failure to vote on 1 May must be considered a vote for the BNP.
By Steve Platt
I bumped into Ken Livingstone this morning, canvassing for the May elections at the Nag’s Head shopping centre, on Holloway Road, with my local MP Jeremy Corbyn. On a day when all the headlines were about Ken’s ‘secret’ kids and Boris Johnson’s teenage drug-taking (neither of which was actually ‘news’ or, to most people, surprising), Livingstone was raising a more important issue – and one that may prove to be of the most lasting consequence when the votes for the London Assembly are counted.
This is, quite simply, ensuring the biggest possible turnout on 1 May to prevent the British National Party from gaining representation in the government of London.
As Ken Livingstone’s campaign declared today, ‘One of the things at stake in this election is London's future as a united diverse city, where all communities and individuals feel they belong. The British National Party is a direct threat to that unity ...
‘We have to get across one simple fact: there’s only one way to stop the BNP, which is by actually going out to vote against them. A low voter turnout will help the BNP get elected. For the fascists, success means getting 5 per cent of the total London vote. The higher the turnout the harder it is for them jump the five per cent hurdle.’
Earlier in the week, at the London Evening Standard hustings, when asked to sum up his message in 60 seconds, Livingstone devoted most of his allotted time to an appeal for voters of all parties to turn out to stop the BNP. ‘Vote for me, Boris, Brian Paddick or Sian Berry, but don't let the BNP get a seat,’ he said.
It’s not exactly a revolutionary appeal from the one-time author of If Voting Changed Anything, They’d Abolish It, but it’s none the less important for all that. The BNP’s attempt to make racism respectable has enjoyed more local successes, including in parts of London, than any far-right party since the second world war. Even one of their number obtaining a platform at City Hall would be an advance to top all that they have achieved so far.
No excuses, then, my anarchist friends: every failure to vote on 1 May must be considered a vote for the BNP.
Antifa
Homepage:
http://plattitude.blogspot.com/2008/04/every-failure-to-vote-on-1-may-is-vote.html
Additions
Tactics, not dogma
12.04.2008 09:17
The original post has got an unfortunately predictable response.
It seems to me that the original post is arguing for a tactic and this position is being opposed from either a strategic or dogmatic position - i.e."Don't vote ever" or even the immiserationist "Let the right gain power as it will radicalise people". (a ridiculous strategy which current conditions in much of the world and the judgement of history have shown to be suicidal)
People need to get out of their bubbles and look at the effect of actions and tactics in the real world.
We DO NOT live in a society where there is a mass movement against capital, we ARE NOT on the verge of revolution. If that was the case then abstentionism might be arguable (though if it was the case there would probably arise an electoral expression of the movement that people might consider voting for) This is not to say we should not be building a mass movement, merely to state the FACTS as they stand.
We live in a situation where the global economy is taking a nose dive, ecological and social problems are escalating, and the main people benefitting from the growing alienation and disillusionment are the far right. To ignore this, and think that lifestylism or hiding in a purist ghetto are adequate responses is, quite frankly , juvenile and foolish.
To posit false choices "either vote or organise" is dishonest - why cant people vote (as a tactic, not a strategy - without buying into the "vote for this party and everything will be OK" arguments) to dinminish the chances of the fascists gaining a strategic advantage. As someone said above, the fascists gaining seats gives them further legitimacy, which means more sympathisers come out of the woodwork, more feel free to openly support them and their influence on the direction and tone of politics increases.
The mainstream parties and fascism are NOT the same, as anyone who has engaged in physical anti-fascism or studied history should know. From the point of view of the struggle, the more the fascists gain power and legitimacy, the more difficult it becomes to unite working people, the more organising is obstructed, the more repression comes down on our head and the more dangerous it becomes for people to express views in favour of our side.
The mistake made here by many has been made in France and Italy - where the far right now has a hold in many areas that were formerly dominated by the left. The rise of the right cannot be fought purely in physical terms, when they seek the "legitimate" route. If you do this you then become seen in the eyes of many of the working class as the "illegitimate" ones, attacking "freedom of speech" and promoting violence - as ridiculous as this may seem in the face of the rise of fascism. This is not to say that there is no place for physical anti-fascism - again it is a question of *tactics*, not strategy or principle.
So vote as a tactic, organise as a strategy. Look at the consequences of your actions and arguments.
It seems to me that the original post is arguing for a tactic and this position is being opposed from either a strategic or dogmatic position - i.e."Don't vote ever" or even the immiserationist "Let the right gain power as it will radicalise people". (a ridiculous strategy which current conditions in much of the world and the judgement of history have shown to be suicidal)
People need to get out of their bubbles and look at the effect of actions and tactics in the real world.
We DO NOT live in a society where there is a mass movement against capital, we ARE NOT on the verge of revolution. If that was the case then abstentionism might be arguable (though if it was the case there would probably arise an electoral expression of the movement that people might consider voting for) This is not to say we should not be building a mass movement, merely to state the FACTS as they stand.
We live in a situation where the global economy is taking a nose dive, ecological and social problems are escalating, and the main people benefitting from the growing alienation and disillusionment are the far right. To ignore this, and think that lifestylism or hiding in a purist ghetto are adequate responses is, quite frankly , juvenile and foolish.
To posit false choices "either vote or organise" is dishonest - why cant people vote (as a tactic, not a strategy - without buying into the "vote for this party and everything will be OK" arguments) to dinminish the chances of the fascists gaining a strategic advantage. As someone said above, the fascists gaining seats gives them further legitimacy, which means more sympathisers come out of the woodwork, more feel free to openly support them and their influence on the direction and tone of politics increases.
The mainstream parties and fascism are NOT the same, as anyone who has engaged in physical anti-fascism or studied history should know. From the point of view of the struggle, the more the fascists gain power and legitimacy, the more difficult it becomes to unite working people, the more organising is obstructed, the more repression comes down on our head and the more dangerous it becomes for people to express views in favour of our side.
The mistake made here by many has been made in France and Italy - where the far right now has a hold in many areas that were formerly dominated by the left. The rise of the right cannot be fought purely in physical terms, when they seek the "legitimate" route. If you do this you then become seen in the eyes of many of the working class as the "illegitimate" ones, attacking "freedom of speech" and promoting violence - as ridiculous as this may seem in the face of the rise of fascism. This is not to say that there is no place for physical anti-fascism - again it is a question of *tactics*, not strategy or principle.
So vote as a tactic, organise as a strategy. Look at the consequences of your actions and arguments.
Stargrave
Comments
Hide the following 37 comments
but don't vote Labour either
11.04.2008 12:36
f**k Labour Scum
Every vote on 1 May is a vote for the capitalist state
11.04.2008 13:06
“Sheep run to the slaughterhouse, silent and hopeless, but at least sheep never vote for the butcher who kills them or the people who devour them. More beastly than any beast, more sheepish than any sheep, the voter names his own executioner and chooses his own devourer, and for this precious “right” a revolution was fought.” - Octave Mirbeau
Neon Black
Homepage:
http://dreaming-neon-black.blogspot.com
False flag
11.04.2008 13:53
Antifa England
Vote negatively
11.04.2008 14:06
It takes minutes to vote. Even if there are no candidates to vote for, there are always candidates to vote against. Whether voting changes anything or not, not voting certainly changes nothing.
Voting does not legitamise the state in the least, nor does it imply consent. Some people mistake voting for democracy, and it is right to point out it isn't, but unless you are busy with direct action all day on the 1st - and you very well maybe given the date - voting doesn't hurt. Did you read David Rovics interview below where he said :
"I think fundamentally, democracy is in the streets, and politics mainly happen because of what happens on the streets, ultimately. However, once a year it's easy enough to spend a couple hours in line at a voting booth. In local elections there are often very real choices."
BetterAnarchist
Homepage:
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2008/04/396101.html
Never Trust A Politician
11.04.2008 14:08
(From the Antifa England Founding Statement at
VOTING
Voting is something that allows the State to pretend we live in a democracy, and it is a tactic used by fascist parties such as the British National Party to promote themselves and their policies. While the BNP may be in a position to throw bricks through the windows of a few Asian households, it is New Labour that is locking up refugees and bombing Iraqi civilians. It is ridiculous to suggest that voting helps to stop fascism. This is the sort of insult to working class communities that has allowed the BNP to grow. This is the case whether we are being told to vote for the old Statist parties or opportunist fronts, such as Respect™, which has helped to promote bigotry (sexism and homophobia) in order to further the agenda of its leadership. The problems that allow racism and fascism to flourish will not be solved simply by voting for parties which mask their fascism slightly more cleverly than the BNP, nor for some middle-class tourist standing on a Left-Wing ticket.
Antifa
Homepage:
http://www.antifa.org.uk
Opportunism?
11.04.2008 14:27
Cynic
This is the only Anarchist thing to do
11.04.2008 14:41
The official election website lists the fascist parties before the liberal parties, and I say, fuck this gesture democracy, we want to manage our own affairs, nothing else will do, and nothing else will have a significant influence over our lives.
if you are going to vote i urge everyone to burn or spoil the ballot and go on the mayday rally, as well as the 2nd of May rally.
Burn th ballot
"Better Anarchist"? My Arse!
11.04.2008 15:03
Don't Vote - Organise!
You must think we're all mugs!
11.04.2008 15:49
What, because Ken Livingstone says so?! You must think we're all mugs, you've produced no argument at all. Pathetic.
Jog on!!
Don't Vote
11.04.2008 15:50
Of course the down side to all this is that the revolution is never coming, by taking no part in the political process our voice is not heard and by not voting we ensure we are seen as apathetic and disinterested but that doesn't matter because once we are down the pub and the Special Brew is flowing we can talk and talk and talk and talk....... etc
Grown up person
'Grown up'?
11.04.2008 16:20
Antifascist
Don't Vote, vote Boris, or even BNP
11.04.2008 17:28
Let Boris win, or even Richard Barnbrook and put the BNP in office ruling London, anything to get the protest movements out in the streets doing something, rather than this purile stagnent attitude that we have at the moment.
Freedom of Assembly (that's your civil rights, your freedom of speech, your right to publicly protest, your right to gather in a public area without harrasment or arrest)
15 people turned up. Where were the rest of you? Fucking pathetic, but all praise goes to those continuing to push that issue.
Purely pushing this comment on reporting bias, if Johnson or the BNP got in, the city would be in chaos. Then more people would get angry and actively (like an activist) do something about it.
Then maybe, just maybe, it would get some of the rest of you off your asses and out in the streets in the thousands, and give us reporters something to report on.
But that's the sad fact, folks. It takes a Nazi to get in to wake you lot up out your ketamine slumber.
Bored
Ironically...
11.04.2008 17:36
That said, and like another poster, I would still vote Green followed by Lib dem. I don't think the 'political system' is a dead end, just that we don't have any parties coming through that would really capture the hearts and minds of the public and that are progressive and could instigate long lasting change.
Unfortunately, everyone seems to get caught up in fringe politics and issues which fragment and prevent solidarity, and lack the desire to compromise to form some coherent party that works towards the change we all want --> it can only happen in small steps and with a lot of compromise.
Q
A 'Better Anarchist' who votes?!
11.04.2008 17:45
Mark Barnsley (Antifascist' and Anarchist)
Only an idiot ?
11.04.2008 19:07
"If so, I hope you were a bit more clued up about recognising them than you are now."
I not only recognise the fascists I also recognised you from your post before I posted. I shook your hand last year when we first met but next time I see you you are getting a mouthful because you are not the boss of me and you do not make the rules for anyone outside your group. You are also not smarter than me despite your good qualities that I lack. I loathe your anti-palestinian rants here even though I know you are dedicated, that is your only your opinion. If you can be provoked into using your name to bully others on minor isues like this, why not always post under your real name ?
" Good for you on reading Emma Goldman's autobiography"
Autobiographies. Plural. That means you haven't read them and you are talking out of your arse to claim you have any idea about how she would be reacting to our states genocides. Not that I wouldn't diss her too if she was alive and disagreed. Reputation is meaningless, you can't rst on what you once did but what you do tommorow.
"And how, pray tell, did they "force" you to sign these statements "Better Anarchist"?"
By hassling my sick mum, telling her I was a terrorist who was about to bomb Labour party buildings unless she agreed to have her house searched. By having their agents make threatening death threats against her in the middle of the night. I doubt I am alone in having an achilles heel. You think I am scared of them, of what they can do to me ? Piss off, I can take a beating, I could survive the abuse you survied. I'd fight you if you threatened my family - and since I know I couldn't beat you fairly, I wouldn't fight fairly. My mum is dying, and when she is dead all bets are off. Until then, I'm fucked.
"Fought fascists have you, really, where, when? "
I broke a fascist march in Aberdeen in 04 or 05, I forget just now cos I am angry at you but I'll prove it if you want. I did this from abroad, by promising to turn up with mates and relatives prepared to fight, and by encouraging support via the internet. I asked for support from here but guess what - silence. The only people who did support my call for solidarity was Aberdeen FC football casuals, which I am eternally grateful for, as I know they can fight and hate fascism ( for the daft reason they associate the BNP with another football club) . The fascists decided not to risk it.
Last year I was kidnapped by a local fascist gang who were intent on faking my suicide, and I couldn't fight my way out of that. Just after, cos of the Prestwick attack, that I was street fighting with morons who were beating up any coloured person they saw, and burning down our local mosques. Admittedly I lost those fights but it didn't stop me trying and the racial violence did calm down. And, if you paid my travel, I'd come to any physical attack on fascism that you call for ( just now I have minus amounts of money since my dole keeps getting stopped or I wouldn't even ask for the bus fare ) whether it was just you and me there or not.
I dunno when the last time you wrote to John was, and this breaks my heart but I hope you have been cos I can't now for fucking obvious reasons - I'm alleged to have terrorist links and am still under police investigation. I could say more but I'd have the cops at my parents house half an hour later so give me a break. For the same reason I'm not going to give my full name here, but I'll email you it if you say you still don't recognise me.
I know it is controversial, and I know it goes against dogma, but I don't think voting or not voting is even an anarchist issue anymore. If you want to argue that it is, then argue that, but don't try to demean me to prove your point.
I never said vote Ken or whoever but there has to be at leat one protest or "fun" candidate running.
So again the same direct question, why does voting invalidate my direct action ? You don't like my opinions ? Use your brain to talk me out of them.
BetterAnarchist
'Better' anarchists my foot
11.04.2008 19:16
As has been said elsewhere, the BNP achieving a seat on the London assembly is not a big problem. They will not have any clout against 23-24 other assembly members all out to beat them out of politics, let alone any ability to make substantial changes given the economic restrictions and frankly, this pathetic gibbering and wailing by people calling themselves anarchists at the prospect of such an occurrence is embarrassing. If this is enough to make you panic and renounce your politics you should be ashamed of yourself.
The 'anarchists' on this thread need to remember where anarchism comes from. It is not simply some utopian ideal to be aspired to in the good times, it is an understanding of power relations, that the economics of capitalism are such that it doesn't matter who's in power, they all have to dance to the same tune. The BNP won't be able to do shit in London, because their plans are bad for business - 'Red' Ken has been forced time and again to push neo-liberal policies, attack strikers and generally act like a wet liberal rather than a decent socialist for the very same reason.
What IS a problem is the normalisation and wide uptake of BNP ideologies, which will continue to propel them further into the hearts and minds of the general population and split the working class when it needs to be solid. This cannot be solved through voting, it can only be solved through the long term provision of a better vision. Pissing about with ballot boxes is a dead end which kills off the critical thinking and focussed grassroots activity which is needed to stop the BNP from growing in the first place.
Rob Ray
Patronising = bossing
11.04.2008 20:05
From you ? I've done the Advanced Anarchism course at while you were still at anarchist day-school. Or perhaps anarhist nursery.
"They only operate on an industrial basis and aren't prescriptive on a wider level, so Rovics can easily be a wobbly and not be an anarchist."
Did I say otherise ? Did I say Rovics was an anarchist or even claimed to be an anarchist ? No. I'm not a syndicalist myself but you aren't doing yourself any favours as lots of people here are. I personally have nothing against syndicalism, it is just not for me.
"The 'anarchists' on this thread need to remember where anarchism comes from. "
So you yourself aren't an anarchist but you are going to lecture us on narchism ? How very LibCom of you.
"Pissing about with ballot boxes is a dead end which kills off the critical thinking and focussed grassroots activity"
Since I vote, and since I am at least as critical thinker as you are - to put it politely - your argument is nonsense . How is that for 'critical thinking' ? No deep offence, but I'd rather argue this with Mark than you since I know who he is and what he has achieved, I've met him and he is a worthy Devils Advocate arguing for the old dogma. Just to be clear, when you put the word anarchist in inverted commas, who are you dismissing and who are you to lecture us ? The grown ups are having an argument, maybe you should stay in the kitchen for a wee while until it is over.
If you are very, very lucky this may result in Mark kicking seven shades of shit out of me, but it is probable we will eventually just agree to differ.
BetterAnarchist
Good post
11.04.2008 20:29
MB
If voting could change anything.....
11.04.2008 20:33
The whole notion of this sort of campaigning stinks of patronising crap, the idea that if you dont vote for labour, tory or lib dem in the mayoral elections you're providing support for a fascist party is some of the most condescending guff i've heard in a while.
Fascism will only be truly defeated through class struggle and the promotion and practice of direct democracy, equality and autonomy in working class communities, now of course this would run counter to the interests of the labour government so obviously they aren't going to advocate it as a tactic to defeat the BNP because it would also mean a dissolution of the governments power. By voting labour back into positions of government youre merely piling the shit heap higher, providing more fertile ground for the BNP to grow in. By all means go and vote labour, thats one of your very few rights in this country, but don't pretend that it makes a shred of difference in fighting fascism.
BruisedShins
Uhuh...
11.04.2008 21:56
You must have flunked it then...
"So you yourself aren't an anarchist but you are going to lecture us on narchism ? How very LibCom of you."
Um, I dunno who you think I am, but I'm quite happy to be called an anarchist.
"How is that for 'critical thinking' ?"
Pretty shite, tbh. You admit you are ignorant of who I am but say your views are more worthwhile than mine regardless. I call that quite lax critical thinking, myself. If I'd been aiming to be insulting on those lines, I would have gone with one or the other, not both. Perhaps you should try working that thimble-full of grey matter of yours a bit harder next time before trying to be clever?
Rob Ray
The Grown up person
11.04.2008 22:43
Mark Barnsley
Fuck anarchism,
11.04.2008 22:47
As far as I am concerned you are an Anarchist if you believe that governments are the roots of our problems, that the power structure and it's agents are the cause of it and that nothing but the complete abolition of those would make any significant difference, you can believe in all those things and not call yourself an Anarchist, who cares?
It's a very good point about the anti fascist struggle, even if we all go to vote now, and we prevent the BNP from getting power, they will continue to grow and they will get in on the next elections.
What we need is to provide an alternative to every one of the points that the BNP capitalize on, and lets face it, the BNP have a lot more "working class people" then the Anarchist movement. it's a lot easier to believe that if that one party gets in power things will change then it is to believe that a "grass roots solution" to all of these problems will emerge, this solution needs to start being a viable alternative, IE squatting, skipping, stealing, jumping buses, cycling,growing veg and plenty of other solutions like that could provide an alternative to working class struggles, much better then any policy change the BNP could come up with, we just have to make those alternatives seem viable.
Essentially the BNP and all other parties benefit from the consumer mentality, where all you have to do is go and vote once and the rest will be taken care of for you, and essentially this is the thing we have to break, and also the hardest notion to get rid of in a city like London, if you vote to get the BNP out make sure you spend the next 4 years fighting against them too, otherwise your vote is wasted anyway!
Burn the ballot
All grown up
12.04.2008 00:23
I didn't to begin with , you misunderstood and I lied, I was just trying to guess if you were a 'Name ' or or a faker . That was incredibly insuling to you but someone has to be. Someone has to offend the golden calf. Why did you use your Name against me ? You do have a Name. It doesn't do you credit to unsheath it. among friends who know you.
>(I won't use your name but think you should put it up so that people know who you are, since you're a bit of an Indymedia regular?
I wish I wasn't but I am. I am using pseuodnymns for a reason I already explained. You know who I am now - tell me why I have to tell everyone else that I have obviously chosen not to ? You know my phone number, my email too, but do you really want me to reveal that to everyone else ? I am not trying to build up my own ego here for false reasons, but at this moment I am getting more abuse than you are and so posting under a false name is perhaps understandable. If you want to state my name, address, phone number, then just go ahead. I could do that to you too but I wouldn't.because I don't know how much abuse you are suffeing, just what oyu endured.
>I don't know why you think I put up anti-Palestinian rants on here, I've been a life-long supporter of the Palestinian cause.
Well, the security services seem able to fake your style. I will email you directly next time I notice that. It seemed tro be you. That is the danger in having a name. A good name.
Mark Barnsley
Not MB
False alternatives
12.04.2008 01:00
> IE squatting, skipping, stealing, jumping buses, cycling,
> growing veg and plenty of other solutions like that could
> provide an alternative to working class struggles,
OMG you must be joking. Can you really think those things are viable alternatives?
Apart from growing vegetables and riding bikes, all of those eamples are parasitic to the currrent system.
They are not and can never be alternatives since theu require things to be as they are.
Squatting requires the crazu distortions of wealth and property ownership to exits. Empties only exist because it benefits capital to withhold supply.
Likewise, skipping can only happen in the fucked up world of consumerism where choice is the god to be worshipsed and the contents of the supermarkets bins are simply a mirror of the faux choice on offer
Stealing, jumping buses? Yes, of course, thats an alternative as old as sin. Why bother to do anything productive when you can steal the fruits of your neighbours labours.... hang on..... isn't that capitalism?
needing a real movement
article should be deleted for fascist
12.04.2008 05:04
Dont come witth the BNP bullshit, there is only someone to blame and that is the Labour Party and I am certainly not helping that scum.
Jenny
Please sort yourself out
12.04.2008 11:29
Mark Barnsley
OK...
12.04.2008 11:49
Of course those things alone are not a long term solution, of course skipping stealing and all the rest are not the solutions we should be working towards, but with some tactics they can be a key to getting there. You're saying that stealing is capitalist? it's obvious that squatting is only done because there are empties, and that skipping is only the result of a wasteful society, but those things can offer a better alternative then any political party can, if you spend half your earning on the rent, not paying it is going to be more effective in any one's life then a cut in council tax that political parties might promise.
but between us, we have got all the solutions that could make life easy, my point is that those alternatives are not seen as viable, where as voting does. We should be demanding free everything, free housing, free transport, free food and all the rest, if you can show that growing some food is worth more in terms of money and time then working and buying that food, that cycling in London is a quicker way to get around then driving and public transport, that generating our own electricity can slash our bills, and that buying new flashy things are not what we should be working our lives towards, if we can get all those and much much more to seem as a viable alternative then and only then anarchism can be seen as an alternative to main stream politics.
What do you propose we do to become an alternative to the BNP? what do you suppose we should be doing in practical terms? organize, unionize? build up solidarity networks? sure we should be doing all those things, but these things are abstract. we need to have those things produce very practical results it terms of people's well being.
Sure we can argue that migrants are victims of the global economic system and that it's not their fault that they can work for less money, but in very practical terms this does lower the salaries of people who would not. without offering these kinds of alternatives we would just be stuck in the cycle of fighting for better working conditions inch by inch, like old style communists and unionists.
What we need is for the alternative to offer an escape from the work, debt, cycle. sure better working conditions are good, but not as good as telling your boss to fuck off and taking charge of your own life. for anyone with a family this could be very risky, and I would not expect anyone to take this step and become a squatter if it risks the well being of their family,but these are the things we need to be breaking, we need to cancel all debt, we need to make people independent of working for someone else, we need a very practical DIY method of taking charge and solving different problems by themselves as opposed to being stuck and hope politicians will do that for you.
And i do think we are vaguely on the right direction with this... sure we have a hell of a lot to wish for, as far as independence goes, well it's still impossible to live independently of the system in London, but the techniques we use are improving and our strategies become cleverer.
For example if you convince someone who is drowning in debt that they could simply not pay rent and could have in effect at least 6 months of rent free living, that no one has to let the bailiffs in, that breaking the law isn't something we should all be terrified of doing... then we could offer a very real alternative.
I have no idea how to go about all those things, but I know that these are the things we need in order to offer any alternative to representative democracy.
Burn the ballot
A Great post....
12.04.2008 12:05
Incidentally, do the self confessed anarchists here no about contemporary anarchism in social theory and philosophy? I only ask as when I've been to and given talks to library collectives around the country it always opens with "well we all know about Proudhon, Bakunin, Kropotkin etc., but where does it go from there?"--> my talks usually begin form this point.
Q
Burn the Ballot....
12.04.2008 12:24
There is a political system there and it can be used but requires using tools and tactics that a lot of self confessed anarchists rile against, due to the fear that power corrupts and that once in power those systems will never be addressed.
Q
From Steve Platt
13.04.2008 15:55
I just want to comment on the 'Let the BNP win and it will stir people out of their apathy' sort of argument. It didn't work in the 1930s and it won't work now. Voting certainly doesn't solve everything, but the idea that we can somehow best fight the fascists by letting them win elections seems to me just plain bonkers.
steve platt
Homepage:
http://plattitude.blogspot.com/
Why?
13.04.2008 23:19
John
FAO Steve Platt
13.04.2008 23:22
Antifa England
Re: FAO Steve Platt
14.04.2008 12:28
steve platt
Homepage:
http://plattitude.blogspot.com/
Libertarain municipalists,syndicalists can both be green & vote cheers
14.04.2008 15:42
I am fed up of life in the ghetto!.
I don't agree with way this was posted & Ive only just looked into libertarian municipalism+ green syndicalism in last few years.
Also after working on shop floor with coop uk & many smaller workers, Ive just discovered www.ica.coop , it has mutualism as one its guiding philosophies, definetely not a perfect organisation though I think we need to make it go back to roots
green syndicalist
FAO Steve Platt
14.04.2008 20:23
Antifa England
Mistake
14.04.2008 23:26
Whoever did post the original post here - not me or anyone I know - most likely is a newbie who has mistaken the group 'antifa' with a general term for all anti-fascism, much like many individuals post under the name antifash or antifascist. This is just a suggestion, but perhaps it would be more sensible for you to ask the original poster why they used that name, and explain to them their presumably innocent mistake. Alternatively you could just use your own names when posting think up an unmistakably unique and accurate name like "Antifa England". It depends on whether you are trying to build an exclusive brand for your group or popularise a general term that anyone can post under.
And if you want to make a point but never be recognised, explain the gist of your post to a friend and ask them to post it in their own words. It won't be perfect, but it will be untraceable.
goodbye,
dee
BetterAnarchist
If voting changed something...
15.04.2008 21:36
The Electoral Administration Act 2006 lowered the required share of the vote to 2%, so if the vote is the same at the next general election then the BNP will only lose 12 seats, costing them £6000 - or rather saving them £36500.
Different elections have different deposit amounts - the London mayoral election deposit alone is £10000.
The more people who don't vote out of apathy or principle, the more money the BNP have.
This act affects all small parties and independent candidates. There are philosophical and political implications that are maybe worth discussing. The Labour & Conservative party came up with this act which they knew in advance would benefit the BNP financially, which partly proves 'the Labour Party is directly responsible for the rise of the far right in Britain, and voting for them will make the problem worse'.
In elections where the BNP are standing and likely to get more than 2% of the vote, pragmatic anti-fascists who wish to impoverish the BNP would vote for either the 'least-worst candidate' or for the 'least-likely-to-win non-fascist candidate' - simply to increase the total vote. There is more than one way to spoil a ballot and still get a real result. Does anyone argue that voting for the 'Monster Raving Loony Party' is an endorsement of our sham democracy ?
Electoral Administration Bill
Election changes 'will boost BNP'
Electoral Administration Act 2006
Danny