Islamic Resistance in Iraq (by Latuff)
Latuff | 16.03.2008 03:22 | World
Islamic Resistance in Iraq
Latuff
e-mail:
latuff@uninet.com.br
Homepage:
http://tales-of-iraq-war.blogspot.com
Comments
Hide the following 27 comments
umm...
16.03.2008 11:48
the nationalistic comment above really doesnt help either, but i think what this cartoon says is really dodgy.
i am not anti-islamic at-all like the post above is but i dont think to be against western imperialist agression in the middle-east, you therefore have to side with other right-wing and unprogressive forces in iraq which are just as mental as the americans and british, with just a sick an ideology, who crave political power, dont often give a shit about the civilian population and who have a similar disregard fro human rights as the invading troops do.
glorifying militant islam because you are against western state terrorism is pretty desperate and tragic stuff really.
why not glorify the secular resistance movements in iraq who are struggling for their country back, or in afghanistan the grassroots risistance movements, like RAWA, who regards the militant islamist movements with equal hatred as the invading imperialists...
for a more in depth of these issues in the art world from artists from all over the world, including afghanistan, america, and iran, please visit...
lard digressions
umm...all fundamentalists are stoopid
16.03.2008 11:49
i am not anti-islamic at-all like the post above is but i dont think to be against western imperialist agression in the middle-east, you therefore have to side with other right-wing and unprogressive forces in iraq which are just as mental as the americans and british, with just a sick an ideology, who crave political power, dont often give a shit about the civilian population and who have a similar disregard fro human rights as the invading troops do.
glorifying militant islam because you are against western state terrorism is pretty desperate and tragic stuff really.
why not glorify the secular resistance movements in iraq who are struggling for their country back, or in afghanistan the grassroots risistance movements, like RAWA, who regards the militant islamist movements with equal hatred as the invading imperialists...
for a more in depth of these issues in the art world from artists from all over the world, including afghanistan, america, and iran, please visit...
lard digressions
this isnt news
17.03.2008 12:07
this is religious propaganda
this isnt news
islamic fundamentalism is so cool.
17.03.2008 12:46
this is wicked man. really cool.
islamic fundamentalism is great!!
this is so cool...
Banned from the Roxy
17.03.2008 16:35
After a lifetime knowing my greatest natural skill is my ability to offend, and years of threats and abuse towards IMC without any proxy or attempts at anonymity, I still can't get banned. They obviously don't respect me as a critic so what is your secret to getting banned ?
Another great Latuff cartoon tw, definitely the cartoonist of our age. (Is trolling trolls trolling ? )
Danny
More Latuff
17.03.2008 17:01
Reader
danny boy
17.03.2008 17:34
banned from the roxy is a great song.
while, this cartoon is shock-crock. jeffrey lewis would tell you the same thing.
the biggest bullshit of our age...
ok folks...
17.03.2008 17:35
this was the iranian authorities sick reaction to the upsetting and provocative danish newspaper cartoons mocking Islam.
while Islamic upset across the world was totally understandble, an exhibition rediculing jews about the holocaust and in some cases celebrating it, in response, was totally sick.
our man latuff contributed to this, and came second. latuffs 'work' might be copyleft and anti-war/anti-corporate in some cases, but thats where his left-wing/progressive credentials end. beyond this he had some very dark opinions, bordering on sick.
but anyway, lets celebrate latuff, because we are anti-war activists arent we. and were all a bed of contradictions. george bush is apparently fun at parties, and hitler was a vegetarian and a socialist.
latuff,great the holocaust competition runner-up of our age...
Latuff is a genuinely great cartoonist
17.03.2008 19:32
Danny
typically (wank)-offs cartoons are just overly-simplistic...
17.03.2008 21:04
...dealing with social justice themes, support for social movements such as the zapatistas, anti-war stuff, support for the palestinians against israeli agression, and so on. i totally support all of these political themes.
however, his apparent support for islamic fundamentalism in this cartoon here, and by contributing to an exhibition which redicules and in some cases even denies the holocaust, which was initiated by the fundamentalist Iranian state, i dont agree with. infact i think its totally screwed up.
so thats the politics in his cartoons dealt with.
as for the aesthetic discussion here, i think his cartoons are consistant here, i think theyre all completely crap.
sixth form art students could do better than this shit above.
the greatest living artist besides van gogh
there are other great cartoonists out there
17.03.2008 21:11
danny, i rose to your challenge.
i believe i have found a cartoon to rival this one of letoffs...
what do you think?
once i wanted to be, the greatest, greatest, greatest...
Wot no pictures ?
17.03.2008 23:34
For instance, where some may see this cartoon as a celebration of a resistance group over an illegal occupation and genocide, you see a 'fundamentalist' - ie extremist - proporganda. You do know he isn't arabic don't you ?
Can I ask you to answer two questions honestly ? Do you see the same thing in other Latuff cartoons that aren't about Iraq ? Did you support the Iraq invasion ?
Danny
for gods sake (excuse the pun)...
18.03.2008 01:03
you say: "some may see this cartoon as a celebration of a resistance group over an illegal occupation and genocide, you see a 'fundamentalist'"
the resistance to the US/British forces in Iraq has many faces, as Arundhati Roy notes:
"Like most resistance movements, it combines a motley range of assorted factions. Former Baathists, liberals, Islamists, fed-up collaborationists, communists
the cartoon is entitled 'Islamic resistance in Iraq'. there is a picture of a shining koran crushing a tank.
this image celebrates a specific element of the resistance to the occupation...the jihadhists. the ones who are fighting a religious war.
the cartoon is not for example entitled 'iraqi trade union movement against US oil theft', or 'secular resistance movement against imperialists for democratic iraq'.
i never said that letoff was arabic. it doesnt surprise me that he lives the other side of the world to iraq. his naive take on most political events in the middle east show this clearly.
ive met many arabic artists, from Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan and elsewhere.
take the 4 involved in this project...
ive not met one artist from the middle east yet who thinks militant islam is a force for good. most just see militant islam as a result of US intervention in Iraq, Saudi arabia, afghanistan and so on from the 1960's. when socialism was spreading all over the middle east in the 60's, the US panicked and began backing religious rightwingers financially and militarily, which is where we find ourselves today.
the us is now fighting the groups it once strategically supported.
what im trying to point out here is that letoff is not just anti-war, and rightly against imperialist aggression and the illigal occupation of palestine, iraq etc etc. he also seems to admire the jihaddi movement in Iraq which gets a specific mention in his cartoon, and appears to support the fundamentalist Iranian government, as he supported their holocaust piss-take/denial exhibition, and received $4000 as a reward for his efforts.
now danny boy, the world is a complicated place. you can be for example, against 2 sides in a conflict.
say, against the human rights abuses of the taliban, but also against the US attack on afghanistan, to secure a future oil pipeline from the caspian sea etc etc.
you can be anti the iraq -war and anti religious fundamentalists. you can be against a potential bombing of iran which would just harm innocents for US strategic interests, but also against the right-wing and fundamentalist iranian state, and the rig.ht-wing fundamentalist israeli state at the same time
do you understand.
the world is not black and blue.
if you see yourself as a socialist or anarchist, libertarian, whatever... then you should support the secular elements of the iraqi resistance, not the jihaddhists (many of them not even from iraq) who simply want to set up a taliban-style dictatorship there.
in terms of your questions, yes i was against the fucking war, the other doesnt make any sense.
go and read some books on the history of the middle east.
or if you cant get off the internet type iraq history into wikipedia.
bye
look danny boy...
"there is a picture of a shining koran crushing a tank. "
18.03.2008 02:22
I don't see that at all. I see a tank driving in to a shining Koran and crushing itself against it.
I know you are smart enough to understand the importance of that difference to your point so why do you assume I can't ? How can you see that as the Koran crushing the tank ? I feel the direction of impact is vital to the understanding of that cartoon. The tank is crushed certainly, as indivdual tanks have been crushed by islamic resistance in Iraq, as the most sophisticated tank army in the world has smashed up against a brick wall consisting of little more than blind faith and a desire to resist bloody oppression.. .
Avvv, since you said your vacation was over you should either stop posting here or at least declare your earnings. Posting against lots of us here isn't going to teach any of us anything, and frankly, if you were someone we could learn from then you wouldn't be posting fter your vacation, you would be busy doing something more important for a nominal wage.
I did challenge everyone to shutup and try to draw a better cartoon rather than verbalise this. I especially challenge Avvv to draw a Koran that is definietley crushing an innocent tank.
BTW Thanks for also having a go at Guido, he thinks I'm a wanker.
Danny
latuff's holocaust cartoon
18.03.2008 18:30
can't say I agree with danny that he's brilliant, myself I think his cartoons are a very blunt instrument, and usually very obvious, but that particular one is excellent, summing up the tragedy of how (as WHAuden put it) "those to whom evil is done do evil in return." Ironically, I think he was talking about the Nazis...
How sad, and ironic, that a brilliant cartoon like this should have to be published in the company of trash that support Holocaust denial, because the cartoonist needed the money...
But if you start down that line, you'd also have to censure, say, Robert Fisk for being published in the western press.
By the way, I reckon being Brazilian has sod all to do with it. Who out of the rest of us have ever been to Palestine or Iraq? Yet we're all working our mouths (ok, fingers) off about that rather sad patch of semidesert which would be much happier if the rest of the world left it to sort out its own divisions.
Want to see something positive about the middle east, then watch the film Greening the Desert.
emigre
"Who out of the rest of us have ever been to Palestine or Iraq?"
19.03.2008 00:41
"myself I think his cartoons are a very blunt instrument, and usually very obvious"
Oh really. Is that so ? I issue the same challenge to you that I've repeated already on this thread. Show me a better cartoon of your own to prove your point or shut the fuck up. Don't resort to words. I wouldn't say that Latuff is a better poet than you are, so are you really going to criticise his cartoons in words ?
Either somebody show me a better cartoon about the Islamic resistance in Iraq or shut the fuck up. I have no idea who posts these cartoons but I am glad that they do. Just by reposting these cartoons you have helped to save at least two lives that I know of.
Danny
weird....
19.03.2008 12:17
this discussion is getting weirder and weirder.
whoever wrote this: "How sad, and ironic, that a brilliant cartoon like this should have to be published in the company of trash that support Holocaust denial, because the cartoonist needed the money...
But if you start down that line, you'd also have to censure, say, Robert Fisk for being published in the western press."
i have two things to ask you:
a. how do you know he entered the holocaust competition because he ´needed the money´´.
do you know him personally?
the thing is maybe more realistically, that he entered it because he was into it, no?
as many indicated above, entering this competition and the cartoon above apparently celebrating jihad are an indication that this guy has some very screwed up ideas, besides the nice anticorporate, antiwar side, which he is more known for.
the robert fisk comparison is rediculous. publishing articles in the independent newspaper about human rights injustices, is totally different to entering and supporting a competition which was about rediculing and in some cases deniying the holocaust, organised by the fundamentalist goverment of Iran. this is working alongside serious human rights abusers, and totalitarians.
if an activist artist from the UK entered a competition racially slurring arabs which was initiated by the extremist israeli state there would be total outrage.
in fighting against the great suffering and evils being done to civilian populations in iraq, palestine, afghanistan and elsewhere, if we loose our objectivity and allow our emotions and anger to make us into apologists for religious extremists, or anti-semitic themes then we have failed as activists
latuff has lost any credibility he once might have had.
tony
Through occupiers eyes...
19.03.2008 17:00
I suspect the same people who defended the offensive Danish cartoons being posted here are the same people who don't like Latuff for entering Irans rebuttal competition. The cartoon above doesn't 'celebrate Jihad', it celebrates resistance to an army of occupation. Symbolising that resistance in the form of a Koran seems to have disturbed some of you who seem remarkably undisturbed by the US tank rolling down the Iraqi street. The 'Islamic Resistance in Iraq' as represented by the Koran is not the aggressive element in that cartoon or in real life.
If you don't like the fact that there is an 'Islamic Resistance In Iraq' then perhaps you should stop supporting the occupying army.
Danny
who here is supporting the occupying army in iraq??
19.03.2008 17:26
i dont read any statements like that.
your imagining it, like you seem to be imagining a lot of things that help you mentally defend a srewed up position.
and how do you know all these things about the cartoonist?
are you best mates?
or just making stuff up maybe
danny dreaming of jihad
Tank vs book
19.03.2008 18:11
I checked him out when I first noticed his cartoons here, there is a lot of information by and about him. I'm surprised you didn't take two minutes to investigate him before denouncing him. He is pretty open about how he earns a crust. He isn't a friend and I don't repost his work, but I do appreciate it's power. I did email him once asking him to draw a specific cartoon. Like any activist I've ever asked to do anything he suggested I did it myself, but he was more helpful than most and gave me some tips on drawing cartoons.
Cartoons are blunt insturments, everything has to be simple, immediately understandable, and yet the detail is everything and does have to stand up to scrutiny. The cartoon above is a perfect example of that. The artist could have drawn the same book coming down on top the tank, crushing it. Instead the tank is drawn smashing into the book. There is no way a neutral viewer could misinterprate that as badly as you have.
Danny
another little bit of bullshit from danny
19.03.2008 19:26
what youre saying here is that to criticise an individual for participating in a project intended to redicule and in part deny the holocaust, then draw an image of a koran crushing a tank, or tank crushing itself on a koran...whatever you want danny (it really doesnt make the slightest difference , to the fact its celebrating radical islam specifically out of all the other elements of the iraqi resistance), you therefore have to be pro-war, baised towards israel, a fascist, neo-con, etc etc.
let me tell you danny boy, im an anarchist. i not only was i against the war, but did a lot more than march with a placard or draw pictures in a vain attempt to stop it aswell.
but because of my world view, in apposing israeli, british and american state terrorism i will not endorse or support or celebrate fundamentalist islam, as to me the jihaddists are part of the same problem as the fundamentalist jews or the fundamentalist christians at the heart of the bush administration and the neo-cons.
by entering that competition, it is latuff NOT ME who is lacking neutrality why cant you understand this simple concept???????
dave
If you ain't with us, yer against us...
19.03.2008 20:13
Whatever you did was a vain attempt to stop the war, or else there wouldn't be an Islamic resistance in Iraq. Did you really take the same risks with your own safety that ordinary Iraqis face every day due to your failure ?
"by entering that competition, it is latuff NOT ME who is lacking neutrality why cant you understand this simple concept???????"
Maybe you just weren't using enough puncuation to make yourself understood ? The conversation about that competition was played out here at the time. You falsely claimed the cartoon above promotes Islamic fundamentalism which means you are calling everyone who resists your states aggression is a fundamentalist. This is bizarre right-wing nonsense to be spouted from someone claiming to have opposed the war, akin to Bushs worst rhetoric. In fact even Bush admitted he'd probably resist an occupying army if he were an Iraqi, but oh no, muppets like you still feel free to call everyone who resists your army a fundamentalist.
Danny
have you got a hole in your head?
19.03.2008 21:25
"You falsely claimed the cartoon above promotes Islamic fundamentalism which means you are calling everyone who resists your states aggression is a fundamentalist. This is bizarre right-wing nonsense to be spouted from someone claiming to have opposed the war, akin to Bushs worst rhetoric."
danny, the cartoon is called 'Islamic resistance in iraq', and has a huge koran. it is not called 'Iraqi resistance in iraq' or 'trade union movement versus yankies' or 'iraqi freedom fighters against occupiers' ...shall i go on? its called 'ISLAMIC RESISTANCE IN IRAQ' do you understand?
i posted above how i belive the resistance in iraq is made up of lots of entities, including secular elements, socialists, and so on. i support all of them who want to rid the occupiers of their country and make try and improve things for the long suffering iraqi population. this cartoon however, specifically refers to one element of that diverse group within the resistance: the Islamic militants.
if the islamists win control of iraq itll be just as tragic as the americans/brits continuing the occupation and stealing allk the oil.
i really dont understand why you cant seem to register this in your head.
your inabilitry to think clearly doesnt me me right-wing mate.
ill let you write the last comment here anyway, as you really get off on this dont you.
i guess you spend a lot of time on this website annoying people with randomness.
good luck to you danny. you strange man. and to latuff too. oh, and the islamic resistance too ofcourse.
george bush
Our terror of Islam
19.03.2008 21:54
America's massive military prestige has been irreparably diminished. And if there are, as I now calculate, 22 times as many Western troops in the Muslim world as there were at the time of the 11th and 12th century Crusades, we must ask what we are doing. Are we there for oil? For democracy? For Israel? For fear of weapons of mass destruction? Or for fear of Islam?
We blithely connect Afghanistan to Iraq. If only Washington had not become distracted by Iraq, so the narrative now goes, the Taliban could not have re-established themselves. But al-Qa'ida and the nebulous Osama bin Laden were not distracted. Which is why they expanded their operations into Iraq and then used this experience to assault the West in Afghanistan with the hitherto – in Afghanistan – unheard of suicide bomber.
And I will hazard a terrible guess: that we have lost Afghanistan as surely as we have lost Iraq and as surely as we are going to "lose" Pakistan. It is our presence, our power, our arrogance, our refusal to learn from history and our terror – yes, our terror – of Islam that is leading us into the abyss. And until we learn to leave these Muslim peoples alone, our catastrophe in the Middle East will only become graver. There is no connection between Islam and "terror". But there is a connection between our occupation of Muslim lands and "terror". It's not too complicated an equation."
Robert Fisk
Bogeyman
Homepage:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/fisk/robert-fisk-the-only-lesson-we-ever-learn-is-that-we-never-learn-797816.html
Newsflash - Islamists win control in Iraq
19.03.2008 23:14
Yes, the shouting helped me to.
"i posted above how i belive the resistance in iraq is made up of lots of entities, including secular elements, socialists, and so on. i support all of them who want to rid the occupiers of their country and make try and improve things for the long suffering iraqi population."
If you support all of them then you support the Islamic resistance. Most of the resistance in Iraq is Islamic. You can't say to them, 'Oh, I would support your struggle for liberation from my occupying army except I don't like your religion'. They are not extremists or fundamentalists or terrorists. They are ordinary muslims defending their homeland or their neighbours from foriegn military oppression. Most Iraqis opposing the occupation (or crusade as it was originally called by the fundamentalist Christian Bush'n'Blair cabal.) are Islamic, broken down into two branches and numberless sub-divisions over populations.
Even some of the secular organistaions contain people who would consider themselves Islamic. And to be frank, you don't have to respect Islam to respect the Islamic resistance in Iraq.
"if the islamists win control of iraq itll be just as tragic as the americans/brits continuing the occupation and stealing allk the oil."
This just in - the Islamists won control of Iraq in the seventh century. No americans were reported killed.
Danny
um, is this another (willfull??) mistake?
20.03.2008 21:22
danny, youre confusing 2 words:
islamist and muslim.
just as zionist and jew are different words too.
i think your confusion comes from the fact that muslims follow the religion of islam.
go and read a dictionary you daft fucker.
danny you dick
Not old enough for cartoons ?
24.03.2008 23:52
Judaism is a religion, zionism is a political belief. These are quite different things - which is why you get non-zionist Jews. You don't get non-Islamic muslims, these words are synonymous. If have access to a dictionary yourself, then you might want to look up them up too, while you are looking up synonymous.
You have pointed out your own error, you simply don't understand the words used in the cartoon. Which must be appalling embarrassing given you just recommended me to use a dictionary. Still, at least I was able to teach you something. I'd recommend you start reading cartoons that don't have words, then when you get a grip on language study some Calvin and Hobbes. That way, you will be less likely to embarrass yourself lecturing grown-ups about your own misunderstandings..
Islam
noun [U]
the Muslim religion, and the people and countries who believe in it
Islamic
adjective
Islamic culture/beliefs/art/law
Muslim
noun [C] (ALSO Moslem)
a person who follows the religion of Islam
Muslim
adjective
a Muslim country/state
a Muslim family
Judaism
noun [U]
the religion of the Jewish people, based on belief in one God and on the laws contained in the Torah and Talmud
Danny