BNP Venues Attacked - UK Indymedia

Good Stuff

14.03.2008 15:08

Well done comrades, keep up the good work.

Tank

Well done!

14.03.2008 16:18

Well done Yorkshire lads and lasses. Would be good to learn whereelse the B.N.P. are meeting so that other anti-fascists can also act.

Jim

Let continue this tactic

14.03.2008 16:56

Wherever we get news of BNP meetings post on Indymedi and other movement lists

cheers

Anarchist

anarchist

Well done. The only thing the BNP understand is direct action against them. Hopefully, this will be heavily reported in the local press and it will dissuade other potential venues from hosting them. Again, well done. Non Pasaran

Red Willy, Holyhead

fantastic stuff

14.03.2008 18:02

actions like this are a great boost to the community, let's keep finding out other venues

itch

The solution is simple

14.03.2008 22:04

If the fash in Leeds weren't so shit scared to come out in public maybe people would have a chance to come at them face to face.

As it is they sneak around behind closed doors egging on others to do their dirty work so the good people of Leeds obviously have to resort to other tactics.

F.C.E

I don't get it..

14.03.2008 23:24

OK, we all agree that the BNP are a shower of racist fucks, but arent the Labour government a bigger concern? They are the ones actually doing the stuff that the BNP can only fantasize about. Shafting immigrants, bombing shit-loads of furriners, and talking of jobs for the british natives.

Compared to the Labour government in Iraq, the BNP are nothing but an irrelevance.

That is my two-pence.

freeluncher
Homepage: http://talkingliberties.wordpress.com/

go for it

15.03.2008 08:40

....economic sabotage is only one of the many tacticsthat can be used to hinder the growth of the bnp......lets not lose sight of the point that anything that gives these fuckers grief has got to be positive......sure the activists involved realise this is a long term struggle on many fronts.....Well done to whoever is prepared to take a stand before its too late..,regards C.O.G

concerned of gipton

Yo, Freeluncher!

15.03.2008 08:43

I'm guessing that you have not been arrested or executed for the comment you just made, but regardless, this thread is discussing the BNP, not Iraq, and if you don't feel threatened by the BNP then maybe you should do some home work. There is a very good TV thing on at the moment, called "White," which is surprisingly brought to us by the BBC, and is also asking some very difficult questions. What we discover, I suspect, is that everything is not "black and white."

Back to the thread - wasn't it street fighting between Communist and Fascist factions in Germany which helped to destabilise the Weimar Government (as well as war reparations, etc) thus paving the way for the NAZIS to take control?

You have to balance what you've got against what you want. Or don't want.

Pancho Brigantes

Hmmm

15.03.2008 09:54

Pancho, you wrote - "wasn't it street fighting between Communist and Fascist factions in Germany which helped to destabilise the Weimar Government (as well as war reparations, etc) thus paving the way for the NAZIS to take control?"

I'd say the reparations played more of a part than the street-fighting, but I take your point. I hope you take mine. I believe we have fascists in government NOW, or neo-fascists if you prefer. Many charge that the neo-cons in America are fascistic. I just think if we want to fight against fascism, we should start with those who are actually implementing fascist policies(ID cards, racist wars etc etc etc) as opposed to worrying about those who are only dreaming about it.

Why are we not attacking Labour Party offices with red paint and glue?

freeluncher

Back on thread

15.03.2008 19:10

As a Leeds local - I would like to say, well done to the activists that carried out this action.

There is no point in arguing about should be be against the BNP or should we be against the Labour Party - the answer is clearly BOTH.

On this basis, the action taken by the activists involved is commendable - presumably these places accept the BNP bookings for a fee, and if it is not profitable to have the BNP because the cost of repairing the damage outweighs the benefit gained, then pure logic will mean that they will not be allowed places to organise - other factors to be taken into account is the shame involved by these places, which will affect profits from lost trade from less political customers.

We should be proud of Leeds and our Yorkshire heritage - one where fascists are not tolerated.

WELL DONE LADS - MORE OF THE SAME PLEASE !

Leeds Local

Fuck the censors

16.03.2008 23:10

Why am I not allowed to say in this thread that I disagree with that ?

Who are the fucking fascists ?

For the record, I wrote something like :

"I share little if nothing with the BNP but I think what you are doing is dead wrong.

I sincerely hope you are going to be identified, prosecuted and convicted for the criminal offences you bragg about committing.

But this is quite unlikely isnt'it ?"

Yeah I think it is unlikely the Police is gonna do anything about it because New Labour is backing it, init ?

Cowards.

skunk

The reek of a troll

17.03.2008 12:08

Your political alliances are obvious 'Skunk'. Why don't you skulk back to Stormfront?

As for the ugly spat that's taken place on this thread, the participants don't live anywhere near West Yorkshire.

And to the boys and girls who carried out the action reported: WELL DONE!

Malatesta

Nice one

17.03.2008 17:02

...nuff said, well done comrades!

A

Real brave there boys...

18.03.2008 09:06

This IS a little pathetic...

Throwing paint in the middle of the night is hardly battles in the street now is it?

Anticom

'Battles in the street'?

18.03.2008 13:11

Well 'anticom', you Nazis don't like coming out onto the streets anymore do you?

These actions certainlly beat the sort of sad stunts you crow about on the fash forums, like for example putting dog-shit through someone's letterbox, or Sid Williamson boasting about how he put a leaflet through the door of Brighton's Cowley Club in the middle of the night!

And then there's the latest "Day of Action" the 'Britain First' / November 9th Society are currently crowing about on their website -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDOFWLurkLg - which involves one bloke delivering leaflets!!

AFA

Let's see.

18.03.2008 14:25

If the B.N.P aren't on the streets, anti-fascists can't kick them off.

Where are you?

Pussies

F.C.E

Pukkha!

18.03.2008 21:46

Isn't fighting "street battles" with the poor idiots from the BNP of the same category of ignorance as joining the BNP in the first place? It's so great to see a magnificent resource like Indymedia used for so much mud slinging and paranoia. How about trying to address issues like why the sort of vitriol the BNP push is being tolerated and endorsed within certain of our communities? How about trying to pro-actively engage with those communities and their problems? How about taking another look at the debate between Multi Culturalism and Integration? Or is street fighting and vandalism more fun? Don't get me wrong - I've no sympathy for the BNP or their supporters, and personally I would have them outlawed (the BNP as an organization, that is), but then there's lots of things which might fit that criteria, but let's face it - the relative peace in Northern Ireland, for example (and I understand that there are direct connections between what is going on with the BNP in the UK and certain of the less progressive elements from Northern Ireland) was accomplished by dialogue and understanding. Unless that you don't want dialogue and understanding because nothing beats the thrill of a bit of covert street crime?

Pancho Brigantes

Oh Pancho! LOL!

18.03.2008 23:30

You'd have the BNP "outlawed" Pancho? By whom?! The State, presumably? Well, that's likely to happen isn't it?!!

Judging from the fact you seem to post on every single thread on Indymedia UK, I doubt you've seen the streets in a long time!

Banjo Thefascists

Hey Mr Banjoman!

19.03.2008 11:01

I work with homeless people.

Er, yeah, great, another slag off, another action reminiscent of our ancestors who used to throw excrement at each other in order to mark their territories but who now use occasional put downs, bombs, bullets, oppression, social division, whatever comes to hand, I guess.

Also, this nonsense of making assumptions based on which threads one participates in, I think you'll find I have few strong opinions about geese or lab animals - that's not to say I have issue with those that do, by the way - and even so, c'mon, I dare you, c'mon, talk to me about what you really would like to see happen... The Government falls and you get to have your dream of dying on the barricades against a bunch of incomplete people (euphemism for the BNP)? Go on, engage with me, I dare you, multi culture or integrate? How do you encourage ghettoised communities to live together, to work together, to understand each other? That's where you'll find your real barricades. Unless you're with the other side, in which case, the same applies. What would you do?

Yeah, I'd use the state to ban the BNP, it's the only state we've got, I don't think you've got a working replacement although definitely consensus no hierarchy is the best model (until some one comes up with a better one) to aspire to, and I don't think the BNP should be sitting on our councils. That's it. Is that so difficult to palate?

Best regards.

Pancho Brigantes

Ok but what about the politics?

19.03.2008 11:05

All exciting stuff in itself but where is the political opposition to the BNP on the estates?

Bubbles
mail e-mail: cheadlehighstreet@googlemail.com

Thesis in a bag (not, unfortunately)

19.03.2008 13:59

Well, there's the six million dollar question, and I'm willing to discuss it, though the answers or possible strategies probably need a lot more voices. You know, there are so many contexts and influences and factors and so on, lots of gray, nothing absolute. Political opposition? I'm guessing that there is political opposition to the BNP, certainly in the predominantly Asian and Black neighbourhoods, but also within the more traditional white working class estates where community still thrives.

But that doesn't solve the problem of BNP activity in those areas where they are or appear to be making headway. So then you have to look at the whys, and off the top of my head you've got things like isolation, alienation, exclusion, poverty, a lot has to do with the fundamental breakdown of those communities thanks to Thatcher and her free market ideology, etc, etc.

But maybe communities in Asian and Black or mixed areas (please forgive the Apartheid/Segregation sounding language, it's just an attempt at some sort of general clarity) are in fact stronger and more cohesive as communities and might themselves be able to provide the impetus? Maybe some joint action between people from those communities with people from non hierarchy persuasion on fronting some actions aimed at pro actively pushing some kind of self empowerment thing, solidarity...

People scapegoat other people who can't defend themselves when they themselves are feeling put upon. It is never the people who they blame who are responsible for these people's woes. So opposition is against the government or the wealthy or whatever, but takes form in the shape of the BNP.

Well, there's a starter.

Pancho Brigantes

DOH!!!!

19.03.2008 14:47

Yeah, I'd use the state to ban the BNP, it's the only state we've got,

JP

Mr Brigantes

19.03.2008 14:53

Are you involved in any sort of anti-fascist activity Pancho? From reading some of your posts above, I get the impression you think you're the only person really thinking about some of these issues. Rather patronising to the rest of us on Indymedia I feel, and particularly to the comrades who targetted the BNP venues, who seem to have both analysis and commitment.

Joe

Riddle me this

19.03.2008 14:56

Are the homeless as bored of your self-righteous, condescending pontificating as the rest of us Pancho? I bet they groan when they see you coming with your soup and your concerned looking face.

Yes most people have got the hump with the shitty state of the world and the working class in Britain regardless of race or creed are getting fucked by the ruling class and the likes of the B.N.P exploit that for their own ends on the estates. But it's hard work for communities to develop a cohesive strategy to fight back and defend themselves (let alone develop progressively) on those estates when you've got an organised B.N.P presence.

What are you going to do about that?

F.C.E

"Yeah, I'd use the state to ban the BNP, it's the only state we've got"

19.03.2008 14:59

Is that some sort of Forrest Gumpism?! As far as I'm aware poster, you're not in charge of the state, and I doubt you have any influence over them. Why would the state ban the BNP?

Black N Red

Forest Gump indeed!

19.03.2008 15:08

"It's interesting to see these arguments/debates/tiffs, especially the really personal ones, you know, where people call each other names and accuse each other of being really bad people - a miracle of evolution, really, not so different from our ancestors, you know, the ones who used to throw excrement at each other to mark their territories, not entirely unlike our brothers and sisters in Iraq who are doing the modern equivalent by throwing bombs and bullets at each other. They give us an anthropological perspective on these ideals and causes for which we struggle - they give us a human face, something we can all recognise. In fact, the more badly informed and speculative we are, the more human we appear, and the less our discussions have to do with the discussion topic the better, the more we see of our own frailties and, thereby, the reality of what we hope to change."
Pancho Brigantes

Forest Gump about sums you up Pancho! You may post a lot on here, but you don't half talk some drivel! "Stupid is as stupid does"!!

Ollie

Clueless

19.03.2008 15:31

"I've no sympathy for the BNP or their supporters, and personally I would have them outlawed "

Who do you think you are Pancho, the Sheriff of Nottingham?! Only the truly clueless would expect any help from the state in terms of fighting fascism. While you're trying to get them 'outlawed' Pancho, we'll just crack on in trying to stop them.

Auntish Fash

Questions is wrong!

19.03.2008 15:51

Is that supposed to be a put down? I like Forest Gump. Thank you very much...

So what do you do about the shitty estates?

Self righteous? If you say so.

Loads of productive discourse, as usual.

What are the individual criteria for fighting/confronting fascism? Is there a form you have to fill in, or is it a case of the old fashioned blooding?

Go on, then, what would you do? How would you combat fascism?

Soup? Homeless? Don't make me laugh!

Action for the sake of action is the same as Pepsi Max.

But if you feel patronised...

One of the best efforts I ever saw was in Bristol. Admittedly there they were only combating youth heroin addiction, but somehow, they turned the community around. And it was a community effort. I reckon some of those methods might just work in this scenario, but violence? No, violence never helped a community. Vitriol? No. It doesn't do it, you see. Fighting for scraps of justification just so you can do the class warrior act? Well, you're not short on life choices.

I look forward to your teaching, oh wise ones. Please, bring me into the light...

Pancho Brigantes

A Clown trying to make Indymedia his own personal circus

19.03.2008 16:36

Like Forrest Gump? You would do Pancho. If there was even half a chance you might actually get off your arse and help us do something about the BNP you just might be worth talking to, but you're just a sneering, patronising fool, whose seen very little, but wants to lecture everyone else. And I reckon I've seen that 'I make my living off the homeless and I'll use them as a prop to try and pretend I've got an ounce of credibility' schtick before. Go on, you lobby the state to ban the BNP, or try to get them 'outlawed', and while you're doing that the rest of us will get on and do something a bit more productive.

Jog on

Which 'community' do you live in?

19.03.2008 16:40

"violence never helped a community."

Fascists aren't part of MY community 'Pancho Brigantes'!

Anti-BNP

"But if you feel patronised..."

19.03.2008 16:57

I think a lot of people reading this thread would feel patronised by the style of your posts 'Pancho Brigantes', though when one examines them more closely they contain more bullshit than substance. You seem to think you have something to teach the activists who carried out these actions against the BNP, but you don't really have much to say. My guess is that they're probably a lot more clued up than a self-obsessed, excrement-fixated blusterer like yourself gives them credit for - Smart enough to find the BNP venues, bold enough to act, and clearly with an analysis that is far less 'simple' than your own. You criticise their 'violence' for breaking windows and gluing locks, yet in typical cowardly fashion you advocate the breaking of the BNP by the state, which is simply violence by proxy. Bearing in mind the bullshit you are writing 'Pancho', I'd say that your obsession with excrement was appropriate.

Antifascist

Pennance

19.03.2008 17:23

I shall consider myself suitably chastened for daring not to share your opinions, oh wise ones. Sadly your opinions re; those you oppose have been rather eclipsed my your opinions of me, but I think I get the message. Let's drink to a tolerant and inclusive society, eh chaps?

How shall I be punished for my wrongs, oh wise ones?

Pancho Brigantes

How shall I be punished for my wrongs, oh wise ones?

19.03.2008 17:31

How about a month away from Indymedia Pancho?

Antifascist

The Vote

19.03.2008 17:45

All those in favour of me taking a month's holiday from Indymedia please say, "Aye!"

By the way, will that be a calendar month?

Pancho Brigantes

Vote

19.03.2008 18:13

"By the way, will that be a calendar month?"

Yes.

AntiBNP

Don't encouage him

19.03.2008 18:22

Don't encourage him boys n girls, his ego is already big enough.

anon

Procedure

19.03.2008 18:36

What is the quorum for this vote?

And which calendar month shall I be off?

Pancho Brigantes

Well done

19.03.2008 19:06

Just to get back on topic - WELL DONE to the people who carried out these actions.

(And can the person disrupting this thread please go away and find something else to do? Thank you)

Jean
(Yorkshire)

Jean

Hick yeah!

19.03.2008 19:30

I, like, I too would like, hick, like t'ask that thar Mr Pancho stop tryin' t' disrupt this thread with his shenanigans so's y'all can get back t' congratulatin' yourselves. It's true he got one heckuva ego, but it's th' only ego he got.

Forest Gump

to go off topic again, did anyone else spot this in the Dutch indymedia

21.03.2008 10:31

Sorry to drag this off topic again.
But did anyone else see a well know fat fascist from Stockport on the Dutch indymedia website a few weeks back.
Seems said nazi scum was over there supporting his nazi bum chums in a demo in bergen op zoom.

He seems to be getting a bit more ambitious these days

1888

Unchained Limerick

22.03.2008 12:04

An anti fascist from Leeds
Felt that violence would fulfil his needs
So armed with a brick
Which is envy for dick,
Broke a window which accidentally caused someone heart failure which sparked off a revenge attack in which someone who had attended a fund raiser gig for ANL was beaten up and left with severe brain damage which caused a revenge attack in which a leading BNP Councillor was badly injured in a hit and run incident which sparked a revenge attack in which a young Bangladeshi was thrown from a bridge into a canal where he drowned which sparked a riot in which several pubs were attacked and pitched battles fought, not just between “radicals” on either side, but which dragged people into them like oxygen is dragged into a flame, and A&E Units reported a large influx of casualties suffering broken bones, stabbings, head wounds, etc, and lots of people were arrested, and it took days for the violence to diminish, and before you knew it, you had these great big walls partitioning the separate communities with sporadic and vicious violence and everyone was expected to take a side, because “if you ain’t with us, you’re against us,” and happily ever after seemed a very long way away, probably several generations of internecine bloodshed before someone had the good sense to forge contact between the warring sides and try to find a political resolution to the conflict, which meant, admittedly, that a lot of thugs wouldn’t be able to make money as easily through pushing guns, drugs, prostitution, extortion, that kinda thing, but then it was agreed that gangsters didn’t do a lot to enhance social cohesion anyway…

Muirfloss Kappa

Muirfloss Kappa....

22.03.2008 14:02

Bloody brilliant post mate!

Q

Muirfloss

24.03.2008 17:16

That is not only liberal nonsense, it is COWARDLY liberal nonsense. Stick your head in the sand if you like, since you probably wouldn't be a primary target for the BNP and their like, but the fact is that fascist attacks are far more likely when there is no organised antifascist resistance.rather than the other way round. Liberals like you certainly wouldn't be able to organise openly on the streets of West Yorkshire if it had not been for militant antifascists kicking the BNP, NF, BM, etc off those streets in the 70's, 80's, and 90's. And we'll continue to ensure that the fascists don't regain the street presence they once had, whether opportunistic, self-interested cowards like you like it or not.

Antifascist

"Muirfloss Kappa"

24.03.2008 23:26

What utter drivel! There can be no "dialogue" with fascism.

Joe B

Utter bollocks

25.03.2008 09:26

What utter bollocks Muirfloss Kappa! 'cycle of violence'? Tell that to the 6 Million Holocaust victims. Fascism survives because cowards like you sit on the fence thinking up excuses to do nothing and condemning those with more corage than yourself.

No Pasaran

is there an echo in here?

25.03.2008 10:52

Yeah, and you brave and courageous individuals can't even sustain a dialogue on a site which is dedicated to dialogue! But you don't want dialogue, do you? You're not interested in that, are you? No, you're from the Stalin school of social cohesion, innit, where all opposition is silenced with threats, intimidation and put downs, because the brains to find common ground got lost in birth and paranoia, innit! Your bile speaks for you very well. Oh, look, there's the Judean People's Front! Splitters!!! By the way, in all of this vicious mob tactics crap that you play (inundated with critical comment and analysis as it isn't) you haven't addressed one single question or issue. And frankly, who the hell would want to work with you, anyway? Time for the thugs to get sidelined, methinks...

Muirfloss Kappa

Love makes the world go round

25.03.2008 11:02

"What utter drivel! There can be no "dialogue" with fascism."

Well, then you and the BNP would make perfect marriage partners...

Ginghouse Altarhalt

Ugliness has a place in manure

25.03.2008 13:21

"That is not only liberal nonsense, it is COWARDLY liberal nonsense. Stick your head in the sand if you like, since you probably wouldn't be a primary target for the BNP and their like, but the fact is that fascist attacks are far more likely when there is no organised antifascist resistance.rather than the other way round. Liberals like you certainly wouldn't be able to organise openly on the streets of West Yorkshire if it had not been for militant antifascists kicking the BNP, NF, BM, etc off those streets in the 70's, 80's, and 90's. And we'll continue to ensure that the fascists don't regain the street presence they once had, whether opportunistic, self-interested cowards like you like it or not."

Hick, reckon y'all should go stick yo li'l heads in the sand fer a few thousand years, an' maybe, hick, maybe y'all evolve inta somethin' useful like a ostrich, yup!

Forest Gump

Abolition of Stupidity

25.03.2008 13:40

"If human stupidity in general decreased, there would be less opposition to original thinking and to new approaches to our old problems."

Hagbard Celine

More than one way to skin a cat

25.03.2008 13:47

Prison concert is part of Rock Against Racism's reincarnation to fight BNP

Duncan Campbell
Saturday March 22, 2008
The Guardian
It was the only gig in town where you had to be on the guest list to get out rather than in. And while the chapel at HMP Brixton, south London, may not have quite the capacity of the Albert Hall or the cachet of Koko, this week it hosted one of those shows likely to be remembered by every one of its extremely select audience.
The Alabama 3, whose song Woke Up This Morning gave The Sopranos its theme tune, took their eclectic music behind bars at the invitation of the prison's governor, Paul McDowell. The band are not from Alabama - they're local and there are more than three of them - but the reception from the 100 or so inmates could not have been warmer if they had been bearing personal pardons from the Queen.

From the opening bars of a specially adapted version of Johnny Cash's Folsom Prison Blues - "I'm stuck in Brixton prison!" - lead singer Larry Love, all dark glasses and bonhomie, established a rapport with those who might identify with the song's lines "I know I had it coming/I know I can't be free". The band, which included Rock Freebase on guitar, Harpo Strangelove on harmonica, and the Rev Errol T and the Rev B Atwell both on vocals - possibly not all real names - ran through a repertoire which included Rehab and U Don't Dans 2 Tekno Any More.
When the band's youngest and smallest member, Devlin Love, concluded with her interpretation of John Prine's haunting Speed and The Sound of Loneliness - final line "out there running just to be on the run" - inmates cheered.
Anniversary
But the concert was not about giving a bunch of Brixton's 800 residents, most of them on remand, a jolly afternoon's break. It coincided with the 30th anniversary of Rock Against Racism (RAR) and was part of that organisation's reincarnation at a time when the far-right BNP is active and seeking votes at the May 1 local elections. The band came in under RAR's auspices, as McDowell is committed to fighting racism in a prison with about 60 nationalities.
"The roots of this go back all the way to my involvement as a teenager in the Anti-Nazi League and on the periphery of RAR," said McDowell, whose musical influences include the Ramones, Patti Smith, Joy Division and A Certain Ratio. "I have always had an interest in race relations and I've been able to cross-pollinate that in terms of my professional life as a prison governor. We're using entertainment to get some key messages across about racism and diversity. We don't have segregation here [as in many US prisons] and we work very hard to ensure that is not the direction we end up going."
The other reason for the band's visit was to help publicise the Jail Guitar Doors programme, through which instruments are given to prisoners to encourage them to learn to play.
The project, named after a Clash song, was set up in memory of Joe Strummer. Some of the donated guitars bear the legend This Machine Kills Time, a play on the old slogan Woody Guthrie scrawled on his guitar, This Guitar Kills Fascists. Inmates were also shown a film about the JGD programme, complete with shots of one former prisoner who got to play alongside Billy Bragg at Glastonbury when the organisation was launched last year.
Geoff Martin, who works on both projects, and was in Brixton for the concert, said that he thought music could be a powerful weapon against racism. "We want to get this message out to as many people as possible," he said. "I think some of the people from 30 years ago need to re-engage and we need to get young people engaged as well."
Fantastic
So what did the captive audience think? "Fantastic," said Antonio. "I thought the crowd here would have been sceptical, but they weren't. What did I think of their choice of songs? Appropriate, in a word. They were really out for the interests of the prisoners. What can I say - it lifted me."
Another prisoner, Mikey, was also impressed. "It was wicked. I had never heard them before but they make you laugh and the vibes were great."
Tony Bodnar, a prison officer whose mother was a jazz singer and who himself plays in a blues and rock band, will be one of the instructors in the guitar programme. "There is a lot of negativity around in prison and this is one way to make a difference."
Larry Love said the band would be performing another concert for RAR at the slightly more accessible Brixton Academy at the end of April. "You know there is a disproportionate number of black people in prison, so it's part of the struggle. And we hate the BNP too."

Ginghouse Altarhalt

FAO Toothfloss Krapper

25.03.2008 13:59

"you brave and courageous individuals can't even sustain a dialogue on a site which is dedicated to dialogue!"

Actually it's dedicated to posting news smartarse.

Red N Black

The whine of the pseudo-liberal

25.03.2008 14:13

How familiar, the classic whining of the liberal trolling anti-fascist threads on Indymedia! For all their syllables, too thick to see a difference between fascists and those who oppose them. 'You're as bad as each other' whine the liberals. Really, when was the last time anti-fascists set up concentration camps and exterminated Millions? Of course these liberals, being white and middle-class don't see any real threat in the likes of the BNP, and concerned that there might be a realpolitik in which their posturing plays no part, they denigrate those who resist fascism by painting them as unintelligent thugs, or even as genetic throwbacks. Scratch a liberal, and there's a fascist lurking there beneath the surface. Politics for many of us is about real life, which is why it's important to confront the BNP. That some of those posting on Indymedia seem to see fascism as an irrelevance, or that they are unable (or pretend to be unable) to see the difference between those opposing the BNP and BNP themselves speaks volumes.

Anti-fascist Always

Skinning cats?

25.03.2008 14:19

"What utter drivel! There can be no "dialogue" with fascism."

Well, then you and the BNP would make perfect marriage partners...
And the Alabama 3 would be as appaled by the specious rubbish you're posting as I am Ginghouse Altarhalt.

Some of us are prepared to fight fascism BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY (which means a diversity of tactics.)

Red N Black

The Same Old Tune

25.03.2008 14:32

"Actually it's dedicated to posting news smartarse."

Yes it is. So why don't you idiot(s) who can't tell the difference between the BNP and the anti-racists post somewhere your pretentious bullshit might be better appreciated? Obviously, rather than taking a month off (which all regular Indymedia readers have earned), 'Pancho Brigantes' has just found himself yet another alter-ego. It's the same tired old tune still playing though.

Antifascist

RVF

25.03.2008 14:51

HAHAHA is that it ? is that the best you gimps can do sneak upto a building in the dead of night and stick glue into a lock whats wrong with attacking the venue with the meeting going on. even you bunch of girls should be able to take on the bnp dickheads.

you say we should be on the streets so you can attack us well what about the next time you lot are out you stay away from the well camered up areas such as shopping centres and you go somewhere where you dont have a police body guard.

we know who you are and where you go in particular the hard bastards of the 635 group we aint the bnp or any of the other hard bastard soft as shit wankers on the net when we strike you will know about it HAHAHA

RACIAL VOLUNTEER FORCE

FAO Red N Black

25.03.2008 15:06

Red N Black wrote:

"Some of us are prepared to fight fascism BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY (which means a diversity of tactics.)"

You mean as long as they conform to your own particular brand of activity?

The means justify the end. But regardless of any rationale, you will always find justifications for your activity, rather than letting the activity justify itself, or even conceiving activities which so clearly justify themselves through good will, benefit, and worth to the community. Or else why are you all so defensive? Touchy touchy? Surely your special little Kristallnacht was a victory in its own right, whose glorious reverberations shall be felt throughout history? Surely the intense media speculation which your brave and selfless actions have inspired are justification enough? Why waste your precious time arguing with white/middle class/academic/liberal/coward/anyone who disagrees with you (delete as appropriate) "people" when you could be out there, baiting fascists, smashing up bus stops, and making a side line in attacking/ "targetting" white/middle class/academic/liberal/coward/anyone who disagrees with you (delete as appropriate) "people"?

But what is really happening here?

Most political movements can sustain a diversity of OPINIONS, not just TACTICS, all of which help to INFORM opinion rather than simply CEMENT it. Rather than just SLAGGING OFF everyone who disagrees with you, and this is to your whole little cadre, if cadre you are, rather than just slagging everyone off, which is only DIVISIVE and DESTRUCTIVE, and seems to speak of victim psychology, perhaps, why, instead of searching out reasons as to why everyone else is an enemy, why don't you just try a little bit harder, get off your high horses, and actually TALK?

Ginghouse Altarhalt

'RVF' Yawn1

25.03.2008 15:42

"whats wrong with attacking the venue with the meeting going on."

Like at Shelf or Rawdon? You weren't so keen to have a go on either occassion were you, or any other occassion before or since. Running you rats to your rat-holes is a full time job. 'RVF'? Tony Foy? We know where you live and where you work muppet, and you're about as much of a threat to us as those silly e-mails you send. What a joke! Scared to go out at night, and anytime you're spotted you run! We hope your silly mate has had the good sense to retire. You on the other hand are always going to get a slap.

Antifa

On the couch

25.03.2008 16:14

Red N Black wrote:

"Some of us are prepared to fight fascism BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY (which means a diversity of tactics.)"

Ginghouse Altarhalt

"You mean as long as they conform to your own particular brand of activity?"

No I mean a diversity of tactics! I don't believe the ends justify the means, neither do I believe the activity justifies itself. You really are excelling in claptrap today aren't you Pancho, Ginghouse, or whoever you are today? To liken the attacks on BNP venues to Kristalnacht really shows you for what you are. Don't try and pretend there's a large number of people getting slagged off here, there isn't, there's you and your silly little alter-egos. This thread is about anti-fascism, not about you, and not about 'everyone else'. Indymedia isn't supposed to be about your personal therapy, why don't you go and get some proper one-to-one counselling and give us all a break. Touchy? Touche.

(Nothing to say to the so-called 'Racial Volunteer Force', No, you probably think you can invite them into YOUR 'community' for some 'dialogue, while you slag off anti-fascists.)

Red N Black

The thoughts of Chairperson Pancho (and his clones)

25.03.2008 16:47

"wasn't it street fighting between Communist and Fascist factions in Germany which helped to destabilise the Weimar Government (as well as war reparations, etc) thus paving the way for the NAZIS to take control?"

"the ones who used to throw excrement at each other to mark their territories, not entirely unlike our brothers and sisters in Iraq who are doing the modern equivalent by throwing bombs and bullets at each other."

"Isn't fighting "street battles" with the poor idiots from the BNP of the same category of ignorance as joining the BNP in the first place?"

"Surely your special little Kristallnacht was a victory in its own right,"

"Yeah, I'd use the state to ban the BNP, it's the only state we've got,"

The Iraqui resistance are just throwing shit. Antifascists are fascists. Breaking the windows of a BNP meeting is akin to Kristalnacht. War is Peace. Ignorance is Strength. Blah. Blah. Blah. And I'm the Sherriff of Nottingham I am.

Clueless Fuckwit

Oh poor me.....(more self-pitying rubbish)

25.03.2008 16:52

Hey you're just being Panchoist! Don't discriminate against me, its the same as racism. Everyone's always picking on the white, middle-class, liberals. Set my people free. My student loan is worse than Auschwitz.

Clueless Fuckwit

My god.....

28.03.2008 03:42

...I have never seen such a display of prejudiced bullying on the Leeds/Bradford News wire comments pages.

Contrary to what some of you believe, not all those that have voted BNP in recent years are what I would call fascists; misguided yes but definitely not fascists in the sense of Nazi Germany. Likewise, some of the 'newer' BNP activists would also, imo, fall into this category of misguided but not fascists in the sense outlined above.

Personally, I think we also need (and here I am not implying 'need instead') to develop more passive (or 'soft power') ways to bring these misguided folk into alternative political positions--something which is indeed possible given past events. It takes a lot longer to bring about such change through such a strategy, but it is a change that would be more ingrained and laster longing than through 'violence' alone.

Q

Oh!

28.03.2008 04:06

I forgot to state in my previous post that I am willing to meet up with those doing the bullying to hear their arguments in person. Could I suggest the 1in12 Club as I know (loosely) some of the 'staff' there and is a safe kinda place.

Q

police informer around

28.03.2008 10:40

Good work!!!!, and just around the corner we have well known police informer and sexual harrasser,openly racist who goes under the name of Ru, 10 Kellsal rd- foubd at many social occassions, have fun guys and keep the good work S

Spencer

Spencer....

28.03.2008 14:53

Spencer, it is not like I suggested a secret hide out such as the batcave. That location is known and if you have a look at redwatch, you will see photos taken inside the venue by fascists proper. Further I did not specify a time nor who I am and how I will identify myself; I assumed these details would be done via secure channels. Quite frankly I think you are being overly paranoid.

Q

29.03.2008 22:27

"I forgot to state in my previous post that I am willing to meet up with those doing the bullying to hear their arguments in person."

If you really think that people who you attempt to paint as 'bullys' would want to waste their time listening to more of your patronising rubbish, you obviously have an overinflated idea of your own importaqnce 'Q'.

"Further I did not specify a time nor who I am and how I will identify myself; I assumed these details would be done via secure channels."

You really have been watching too many old James Bond films! But how on earth could anyone be expected to contact an anonymous poster 'by secure channels'? Personally I think you've got 'Rat' written all over you.

K.Bullstreet

LOL

30.03.2008 06:19

I did not call anyone specifically a bully...just commented on the general flavor of replies.

A rat? LMFAO....I really think you too are being overly paranoid. By more secure channels I was referring to my emailing them via the addresses they have put out there. I would email from my actual identity account and tell them who I am through that and try to arrange a time to meet.

Please specifically spell out where in my comments (words etc.) you feel I am being patronizing. What is it that I have said that you view is rubbish? Again, happy to meet you specifically in person to discuss :)

Q

Dodgepot

31.03.2008 19:02

Are you fishing for contact details for those who carried out this action Q? Sounds like it. Why would anyone care what a sneering gob-shite like you thinks or want to potentially endanger themselves by meeting you? If you want to get in touch with militant antifascists such as Antifa, contact details are already on the net, so why are you sniffing around here?

Carlos

And in reply....

01.04.2008 06:55

Carlos, if you took the time to read my postings under this news article you will see that that is what I stated I would do. I have not asked for any details to be posted here. What I would like to be posted here is something along the lines of, and from those perpetuating cycles of vandalism and violence, "go on send that email, we will read it and decide from there on".

Quite frankly the replies to my opinions and my willingness to meet, discuss and give people a chance to convince me otherwise, has only been met by hostility and petty name calling.

Not one of you has in a calm and collect manner engaged with my opinions on a point by point basis with any sense of rational argumentation. When you come to think about right wing ideologies and the types of thinking and personality characteristics of such ideologies, many of the comments posted here prompt irony.

respectfully yours

Q

Q

Q (Quisling?)

01.04.2008 08:01

You should be ashamed of yourself for referring to antifascists as bullys and 'perpetrators of cycles of violence' Q, that's if you're not engaged in a police information gathering expedition and I think you probably are. If you think actively confronting the BNP is so bad, why don't you e-mail someone about it or turn up to a public event and moan there? Why should people have to set up a private meeting with you or make special arrangments to hear your disparaging views? If you're not in the pay of the state you're missing a good career opportunity. Fascism has flourished in the past aided by people who, sincerely or not, harped on about the same things as yourself, learning nothing from past struggles. Did Franco cease power because antifascists fought against him? Have the National Front flourished because AFA took them on? In most British towns fascists used to hold weekly paper sales 20 and 30 years ago, they don't now for fear of attack. They were kicked off the streets (while people like you whined from the sidelines as always), and those streets are a lot safer because of that. My hat goes off to those continuing the struggle, who are willing to confront this dirty, racist ideology on the streets, which is the only place that matters.

Old antifascist

Old Antifac

01.04.2008 12:24

Just to correct you, I am not calling all antifac bullies, rather I was referring to the people making the insulting posts here and this actual act; big difference.

Second, I do not think confronting the BNP is bad, just I work under a different rubric of confronting than you.

Third, I think you being overly paranoid thinking that I am associated with the police.

Fourth, I've found there is much to be gained with respects to understanding one another's positions via face-to-face communication; you can pick up on body language etc.

Fifth, your comparisons with franco don't apply here as the level of 'fascist' control/force etc. is no way near as close. If it were I would have no problems advocating violence and vandalism.

Sixth, I do advocate confronting racist ideology on the streets and anywhere I find it, though not via beating people up or vandalizing property.

And finally seventh, not all BNP voters a fascists proper no matter how misguided their views might be.

cheers!

Q

Q

01.04.2008 19:59

"Just to correct you, I am not calling all antifac bullies, rather I was referring to the people making the insulting posts here and this actual act; big difference."

So you regard property attacks on venues used by the BNP as "bullying"?! Seems a rather odd turn of phrase to say the least.

"Second, I do not think confronting the BNP is bad, just I work under a different rubric of confronting than you."

So it's OK, so long as it conforms to what you think acceptable, and if not it's "bullying"?!

"Third, I think you being overly paranoid thinking that I am associated with the police."

Better to be paranoid than locked-up I think.

"Fourth, I've found there is much to be gained with respects to understanding one another's positions via face-to-face communication; you can pick up on body language etc."

You don't seem to have done much to understand the position of militant antifascists, you have denigrated them as vandals and bullys. I fail to see why anyone would want to meet with you.

"Fifth, your comparisons with franco don't apply here as the level of 'fascist' control/force etc. is no way near as close. If it were I would have no problems advocating violence and vandalism."

So we should wait until fascists have the upper-hand, then we confront them?!

"Sixth, I do advocate confronting racist ideology on the streets and anywhere I find it, though not via beating people up or vandalizing property."

If you had tried "confronting racist ideology" 20 years ago on Briggate, or more recently in other parts of the city, you would have been given a beating. That fascists in Leeds no longer hold sway in the city is only because of the actions of militant antifascists, and that the fascists were ever able to claim Leeds as their 'northern stronghold' was only because of liberals like yourself expressing identical opinions to the ones you are spouting now.

"And finally seventh, not all BNP voters a fascists proper no matter how misguided their views might be."

That might well be the case, but they are a fascist organisation, and need to be confronted as a fascist organisation.

Old antifascist