are feeding us a lie over Climate Change it is their over consumption that has lead us here and now they're passing the blame onto the poor and the working class do not believe their lies..

Several people in court because they are trying to defend the earth from climate change and you go on about blaming it all on the "middle class" (so much easier to blame everthing on a concept, so long as YOU are absovled of any responsiblity, isn't it?). Got any figures on how much energy the "middle class" and "working class" consume to back that up? Or would you rather go on about who much more prolier than thou (and since you are probably a resident of a "more economically developed country", that attitude is a crock of shite) and blame those wretched people who don't fit in with your concpet of a "good worker"? Incidentally the target of the protest was a corporate climate criminal (don't see many proles running power stations, do you?)

Shitty comments aside, good luck with the court case people.

Sorry but that is a ridiculous coment.

Most of the defendants have quite a devolped political understanding and are in no doubt that capitilism is one of the major causes of climate change.

None of us blame the poor for climate change and one of the reasons for taking action on climate change is that it disproportiantely effects the global poor who are the least responsable for CO2 emmissions.

I think comments like that prevent people from understanding the economic and political causes of climate change and help to keep it as purely green middle class issue, rather than the extreme threat we all need to take seriously.

Are you just refusing to face up to an issue that is too difficult for you and hiding behind an antipathy to the middle classes as a way of burying your head in the sand, or are you convinvced that the issues of climate change requires a deeper political understanding. Because if so then explaining the need for capitilist (and state socialist) economies to grow, and therefore increase consumption, will help devolop this understanding, slagging off the people who are really tring to tackle carbon emmissions means people don't think.

just thought I'd post to say that I agree with the comment posted that caused so much offence.

It is indeed the middle classes (and the even better off) - and their predecessors that have caused the climate crisis.

importantly, the faux 'crisis' (awash with middle class guilt) which I worry my actions contribute to are not a solution to the current problem.

also, climate action is often a distraction from class struggle.

i think it is important to acknowledge these things.

well, 'another defendant', seems funny that you imply you are one of the defendants of the above case, yet you say the climate crisis is false...that sounds pretty bogus to me that you'd take such action and then say it's all a storm in a teacup!

Whilst climate actions can be beset with liberal intent, that doesn't mean that they necessarily are. Distraction from the class struggle? Excuse me, but there ain't no class on a planet without humans (maybe that's what you want?!), which is where we're headed if we don't take action now.

I don't think it's as easy as you say to point the finger of blame at one class or another for the climate chaos we have now, with worse to come. What is easier to show evidence of is what others have said - it impacts disproportionately on the poor - that is who is dying around the world at the moment, 150,000/year (WHO figures).

There is not one solution to the current problem - but part of it is certainly you taking responsibility for your lifestyle choices and the impact they have on people the other side of the world and future generations. So don't say you've not been warned!

...the poorest people in "less economically developed countries"/the "global South"/"Third World".

Also note how tends to emit the most greenhouse gases contributing to this? Yes, the corporate interests based in the developed world/"global North"!

Now if that doesn't make climate change a class issue, I don't know what does...

Today, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report has been published. United Nations Secretary General Ban Ki-moon says immediate action is required, like now. There are still some from the flat-earth society that think none of this is true, but they are largely employed by 'vested interests' oil companies etc with their finger on the scales. Peer reviewed science is now quite certain on the magnitude of catastrophic effects that can be expected. This is true now, whether or not we mend our ways, since the time we have spent on this argument, we might have best been best employed in doing things about it. With peak oil and the like, we could well be on the wrong side of the 'tipping point' beyond which there will be irreversible changes. So much for the good stewardship of the planet.

It strikes me, that arguments about which industries are responsible, which countries are making a greater impact, (why should we do anything, while others [China, US] are not), and now some are trying to decide which social class is more to blame. I don't care about class [I have no idea what class I am anyway].

FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! History at school told me something about the Roman Emperor Nero, who practiced his fiddle, while Rome was burning. He was misguided, no? I guess the urgency of the situation means that we will be ineffective if we descend in to arguing who’s' fault it all is / was. How are we going to proceed to mitigate what effects are already coming down the pipe at us?

Waiting for democratic politics to become effective and do something, does not appear to me to be an option. Further committees, working groups focus groups to inform politicians on needs, all the time the clock ticking. The public are still hugely under informed due to a gross failure of both politics and the media in explaining the issues to the public. [except this media type, who is just doing his best :-( ]. I offer a round of applause to those who are prepared to take personal efforts to highlight this issue. You have my thanks guys.

United Nations Secretary General Ban Ki-moon said the world may be nearing a tipping-point on climate change. "We all agree. Climate change is real, and we humans are its chief cause. Yet even now, few people fully understand the gravity of the threat, or its immediacy. Now I believe we are on the verge of a catastrophe if we do not act."

His comments were endorsed by environmental groups on the fringes of the IPCC gathering.

"Climate change is here, it's impacting our lives and our economies, and we need to do something about it," commented Hans Verolme, director of the climate change programme with the environmental group WWF.

After this report, there are no politicians left who can argue they don't know what climate change is or they don't know what to do about it."

Mr Ban says a new report on climate change has set the stage for a real breakthrough in tackling the issue. "Let us recognise that the effects of climate change affect us all, and that they have become so severe and so sweeping that only urgent global action will do. We are all in this together - we must work together," he said.

Among the report's top-line conclusions are that climate change is "unequivocal", that humankind's emissions of greenhouse gases are more than 90% likely to be the main cause, and that impacts can be reduced at reasonable cost, if acted upon now.

The synthesis summary finalised late on Friday warned that climate change may bring "abrupt and irreversible" impacts.

Such impacts could include the fast melting of glaciers and species extinctions.

"Approximately 20-30% of species assessed so far are likely to be at increased risk of extinction if increases in global average temperature exceed 1.5-2.5C (relative to the 1980-1999 average)," the summary concludes.

Other potential impacts highlighted in the text include: between 75m and 250m people projected to have scarcer fresh water supplies than at present yields from rain-fed agriculture could be halved food security likely to be further compromised in Africa widespread impacts on coral reefs.

The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change
 http://www.ipcc.ch

Working Group I Report "The Physical Science Basis"
 http://www.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/ar4-wg1.htm

Working Group II Report "Impacts, Adaptation and Vulnerability"
 http://www.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/ar4-wg2.htm

Working Group III Report "Mitigation of Climate Change"
 http://www.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/ar4-wg3.htm

Information for the press :: Summaries and links
 http://www.ipcc.ch/press/index.htm

If you can't deal with the full report..... here is the summary
 http://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/assessment-report/ar4/syr/ar4_syr_spm.doc

UN calls for joint climate effort
 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7098902.stm

...here it is now from the MOD:

 http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/research/hadleycentre/models/modeldata.html

"Key results from climate-change experiments conducted using Hadley Centre computer models of the climate system. The experiments assume that future emissions of greenhouse gases will follow the IS92a scenario, in which the atmospheric concentration of carbon dioxide more than doubles over the course of the 21st century. This is a 'business as usual' scenario, which assumes mid-range economic growth but no measures to reduce greenhouse-gas emissions."

I thought this was a rather full on statement - actually pinpointing the actual cause of the problem - the economic growth model (basically). Yes everyone should become eco warriors now, in terms of sharing and having a hippy ethic also...or you and you kids will die in fear horror and pain...mmm, on the other hand! Damn, thats means no more projection of an almost god-like status onto a few select individuals - the 'eco warrior' clan! - nice though that trip was. OK front line are still special, but everyone wil, have to have a 'front line' type consciousness - they need to become anarchistically minded (not sacred space trashing anarchist by the way - be careful on that one please), in particular towards the state. So that leads on to the reality that awaits people who wake up to the nightmare of 'babylon'...and as usual that is probably the most difficult thing to manifest. What is the alternative? I used to think I knew - now I'm not certain. I personally cannot really see a way through it for 'you guys'. I think the only real option is the mass wake up thing, not just to green issues per say, but as I said, a wider anarchists awareness of reality...not sure thats gonna happen now...and maybe isn't 'meant to be' due to karmic baggage. Again the problem is fundimentally about ritual abuse issues, (yes I do accept that this may be contreversial thesis.), i.e. babylon being a construct of ritual child abuse, and thus the solution is good ritual and natural magic (fundimentaly). I have found NVDA in particular a good mechanism for breaking that state fear power, but there does have to be somewhere sound for people to land after making that break out from babylon, and again, not really sure that there is anything. I mean there is or was the peace convoy tribe as Tash knows - thats a great scene - and that collective anarchy consciousnes sis what you need to be aiming for in terms of any alternative/green/protest happening/camop/reality - a real and full on version of reality...and one I know from personal experience, one that is the most dangerous to this old age order of evil that is how the mass of the people/society is programmed, and so this is what they need liberation from...but liberation into what?

Exodus ( - word on page, what does it mean?)

A sweeping genralisation agreed, but a concept never herd them called this befor.. My point being and was agreed by some, that there is no real evidance to say what is happening with the world is climate change, could it be that people like myself The Middle Class if i was going to compair myself to a person of the third world i would be, are the problem..

I have an income of 80 pounds a week (earn a lot more but i donate the rest) live of free food cloths etc from skips no longer drink or eat any form of takeaway food, simply live by waht i need, Not due to the bullshit argumant of climate change but out of respect to my earth my mother, ask those who know me ive been there on the front line..

But lets be frank shall we those involved in the eco movement are easing some form of guilt.. Ive been there following an action, and dureing an action the mass consumption that happens is one of meny resons i find myself doing my own thing..

You need only look at the Climate Camp, What was the carbon foot print of this event? i would guess simply f-ing massive..

What was the carbon foot print of this action againe idd guess massive.. If we are under climate change then we change our self,s and not to make those who are working class feel guilty due to there poverty and there for bad choices they make due to this..

0742

if these guys get acquited they should take a holiday long haul flights are going qute cheap this time of year!!