Dispatch - new workers' bulletin on the public pay dispute - distro help request
Dispatcher | 06.08.2007 21:06 | Analysis | Workers' Movements | London
We are a group of workers mostly in the public sector, who met via the libcom.org website who are putting together a bulletin called Dispatch - Public sector pay dispute—information for action. An ad hoc newsletter for the ongoing struggles, mainly in the post office at present, against sub-inflation pay offers.
Our main aims are - to try to keep workers informed, to help communication across different sectors, to help spread the struggle, to help workers fight more effectively, to help us win, and to record information about how the struggle progresses to pass on lessons to other workers in the future.
We want to get the bulletin out to as many people as possible, and we need your help. This first issue is aimed at postal workers. Future issues might be aimed at civil servants, local government workers, etc.
Our main targets for distribution this time will be big District Offices (DOs), which can have thousands of workers, but also if these have been done, secondary targets include picket lines, Sub-Delivery Offices (SDOs), post offices, post boxes, CWU demonstrations, then other public sector workers, and anyone else.
Depending on responses we can pay for some to be printed, but for now we're mostly planning on using DIY photocopies or printouts from PDF.
Are you or your organisation interested? If so, which area are you in? Can you or your group take responsibility for certain areas/offices? Do you have a newsletter? If so can you include the bulletin in your mailout?
We're trying to co-ordinate this mostly on the libcom forums:
http://libcom.org/forums/organise/dispatch-distributing-public-sector-pay-struggle-bulletin-help-needed-05082007
So please feed back here. Alternatively you can email us at
dispatch@libcom.org
We can help to get details like DO addresses, and if you can't help distribute them libcom needs assistance with reporting the disputes online so if you have the time to help out do get in touch!
Please also forward this appeal to anyone or any websites/message boards where people may find it useful.
In solidarity,
The Dispatch crew
We want to get the bulletin out to as many people as possible, and we need your help. This first issue is aimed at postal workers. Future issues might be aimed at civil servants, local government workers, etc.
Our main targets for distribution this time will be big District Offices (DOs), which can have thousands of workers, but also if these have been done, secondary targets include picket lines, Sub-Delivery Offices (SDOs), post offices, post boxes, CWU demonstrations, then other public sector workers, and anyone else.
Depending on responses we can pay for some to be printed, but for now we're mostly planning on using DIY photocopies or printouts from PDF.
Are you or your organisation interested? If so, which area are you in? Can you or your group take responsibility for certain areas/offices? Do you have a newsletter? If so can you include the bulletin in your mailout?
We're trying to co-ordinate this mostly on the libcom forums:
http://libcom.org/forums/organise/dispatch-distributing-public-sector-pay-struggle-bulletin-help-needed-05082007 So please feed back here. Alternatively you can email us at
dispatch@libcom.org We can help to get details like DO addresses, and if you can't help distribute them libcom needs assistance with reporting the disputes online so if you have the time to help out do get in touch!
Please also forward this appeal to anyone or any websites/message boards where people may find it useful.
In solidarity,
The Dispatch crew
Dispatcher
e-mail:
dispatch@libcom.org
Homepage:
http://libcom.org/library/dispatch-public-sector-pay-dispute-1-august-2007
Comments
Hide the following 38 comments
as i understand it...
07.08.2007 06:18
(A)
Libcom is more than the forum
07.08.2007 09:46
llantwit
An Worker
07.08.2007 09:48
..
is this the best you can do?
07.08.2007 10:10
I took a look at the links from the bulletin, and all I see is pages and pages about the post strikes, none of this four years of slagging off groups that previous posters mention - people in glass houses shouldn't throw bricks.
N...
to "an worker"
07.08.2007 10:30
If you've actually read this bulletin, what you'll see is not that it's promoting an "internet forum," but postal workers working to the 318 during the course of the strike action, linking the public sector struggles together and for workers as much as possible to communicate together to begin to take control of the struggles themselves.
Actually, I remember that it does promote an internet forum:
It does link to part of our site, yes -
This dispute - which has already involved over 300,000 people taking direct action, thousands of them off their own bat outside the control of the unions is being roundly ignored by the bulk of the "anarchist" movement.
"An worker" and "Anarchist," since you're slagging us off, what is your view on these struggles and the best way to take them forward? Do you work in any of the affected sectors? What are you doing to take things forward that is more effective than us?
For reference, the bulleting wasn't put together by just admins of libcom, or else we would have said that, it was a few of us involved in these disputes plus other workers we know who read the site.
As for the other poor attempts at smears and insults - while ironically criticising people who slag people off on the internet! - saying that we don't produce anything is silly, we build and maintain the UK's largest anarchist website, for one thing, that certainly didn't take 5 minutes to put together. And "an worker" is actually spreading disinformation himself - the 2,700-odd posters on libcom say things that we admins can't be held responsible for, any more than the indymedia bods for what I'm saying. Your claims about Bowden are wrong - I for one clearly said he should be freed. I did criticise Brighton ABC for supporting the Unabomber, and saying this on their site: "Ted is serving multiple life sentences for the infamous and fatal Unabomber bombing campaign against individuals involved in developing destructive technologies." He tried to blow up a passenger jet - he is a wannabe mass murderer and this description glorifies his crimes.
libcom John.
Homepage:
http://libcom.org
i see
07.08.2007 10:49
If anyone who isn't foaming at the mouth with grudges wants to help distribute this i think it's exactly what anarchist groups should be doing, i'm gonna print a load and distro them round my way.
(A)
five minutes
07.08.2007 13:36
--
Well someone already did - royalmailchat.co.uk, and the leaflet links to them very prominently.
They don't have information about the 2003 wildcat strikes, the Communication Workers Group or other older stuff though, nor the rest of the public sector strikes going on right now, and nor would a brand new site set up by politicos in five minutes.
As to
N...
Danny
07.08.2007 13:55
We've linked to the section of our site (/pay-2007) which is the best libertarian-left coverage of the dispute we know of - if you know better let us know. We also link to www.royalmailchat.co.uk with which we are not affiliated at all. We're not "tying up support for postal workers with support for libcom" - we're including links to what we think are the best available resources for workers to get information, network and spread the struggle across sectors.
why should we start a whole new website when we run one already? we'd only get slated for setting up an SWP-style front organisation anyway, which our critics would revel in 'exposing.' Instead we're being open about who's involved in Dispatch and what its goals are.
Joseph K.
Homepage:
http://www.libcom.org
and also
07.08.2007 14:00
Joseph K.
Homepage:
http://www.libcom.org
Doing the job as it should be done
07.08.2007 17:01
CH
STFU Danny
07.08.2007 17:16
This article was posted to request help in distributing a bulletin aimed at workers involved in the biggest struggle happening at the moment in the UK, and you exercising your personal vendetta against libcom isn't helping, and if anything you're just showing what a fucking nut-job you are.
dannyboy
Disgusted from Ankara
07.08.2007 17:32
The fact that some people are rejecting an orientation towards working class struggle because some people don't agree with their ideas about prisoner support is outrageous.
You really are an embarrassment to the entire tradition of anarchism.
On another point, one poster wrote:
"They don't have information about the 2003 wildcat strikes, the Communication Workers Group or other older stuff though,"
No, they don't have it all. I don't think anyone has all the documents from CWG. It was about twenty years ago. Libcom has what they have found on their site.
Devrim
Devrim Valerian
e-mail:
solkomunist@yahoo.com
Homepage:
http://eks.internationalist-forum.org/tr/node
...
07.08.2007 17:49
Are you really saying that out of fear for the sensibilities of your female postie you wouldn't direct her to a site where *one post* out of 10,000+ you find objectionable? You didn't seem so concerned about the admins sensibilities (who for all you know have been raped) when you labelled us supporters of "rapists and wannabe rapists." Or concerned about those who may think you're trivialising the holocaust by labelling people nazis left right and centre. Actually i saw *one post* on royalmailchat.co.uk praising the bombing of Germany in WWII, perhaps we shouldn't link to them either since we're opposed to nationalism?
As for John Bowden, it's simply wrong to say "our posters" vilify him. I can think of two who have been hostile, while others have been supportive and others comradely critical. There's certainly no consensus on the board about him - you do yourself no favours by amalgamating all the opposing views of people on a discussion forum and then attributing this mish-mash to the people who run the site. unless you think the IMC-UK mods agree with everything that's posted up here, tinfoil-hat madness and all.
To be honest it's depressing that judging by the number of responses to this versus the few other related posts on IMC UK most 'anarchists' only interest in the largest wave of direct action for a long time is slagging off (some of) the only people who are doing something around it. Makes a change, the usual insult aimed at us is that we're internet do-nothings.
Joseph K.
Homepage:
http://www.libcom.org
activists in "nutters" shocker
07.08.2007 19:56
If that is stopping him delivering "thousands of copies" of the only libertarian leaflet on the biggest working class struggle in the UK in recent history then I think that shows up his commitment to working class struggle. FWIW, we would happily put a link to a different web address if there was another site with as good coverage of these disputes as libcom. Got one to recommend?
That said we've had very good responses to our bulletin and coverage so far from striking postal workers, and we are far more concerned about them than some weirdo anarchoids with petty grudges.
On a practical note, we are having a few thousand of these printed for distribution in London,a nd will be hitting big DOs for distribution on Thursday morning, and picket lines on Friday. If anyone wants some or wants to help out - say on that thread on libcom linked above or email dispatch at libcom dot org.
libcom John.
Homepage:
http://libcom.org
cool
08.08.2007 00:17
Thank god for Libcom, they are the only ones involved in the class struggle. Whilst we are all freaks.
...
o rly?
08.08.2007 09:38
curious, i just found that thread - he did ask you, you left it there, an admin removed it and you then did it again and started shouting 'fuck you hypocrite!' and the like at the admins for doing so. In fact instead of apologising you called him a "slimey backstabber" and told him to "head off back to the valleys" (yeah, kick out teh forenerz 4 teh ANaRkkY!!!11). but don't let the facts get in the way, head-case.
and "...", as far as i can tell libcom's been getting sniped at ever since it oriented away from the activist sub-culture towards class struggle. the fact that we're in the middle of the largest wave of direct action in years doesn't seem to register on many of these peoples radar, except when it provides a good opportunity to wage petty vendettas. I'd genuinely love to be proved wrong if any activists are doing stuff around this? or are even aware of it? (there's not a lot on IMC besides the feature, certainly compared to say G8 stuff even though far more people are taking direct action now - a lot of it outside the unions too).
libcom John. - good to hear the feedback from the intended audience is positive, it's obviously far more important what posties think than assorted internet grudge-merchants. and if anyone's still reading this not just for the subcultural soap opera, print out some Dispatch and get them out there!
(A)
shame
08.08.2007 10:01
The Libcom collective can't keep blaming "activistoids" or "@narKyIsT", they should look at how they have treated and related to people and groups who they disagree with, with the constant criticism and personal abuse they have launched against a variety of people within the movement. If they seriously want to intervene and involve themselves beyond their web site into real face to face class struggle politics then they have to learn to have a non-sectarian, non-arrogant attitude. Otherwise these posts as you see here will dominate any (good) activity they may end up doing.
Raw
anarchist
wot?
08.08.2007 10:05
who is this 'working class' people are on about it's not the fucking 19th century any more. dickheads. smash capitalism, smash the 'working class'!
the resitance
troll
08.08.2007 10:14
What this a new political trend - anarcho-thatcherite
raw
Alternatives?
08.08.2007 10:50
pcs member
r(A)pe
08.08.2007 11:02
No, he didn't, ask him if you doubt that. The argument was heated but I was trying to be rational while being deliberately provoked by the vilest, most cowardly filth - like jokes about rape and murder that still stand. Not only did I not reveal his first name maliciously - which he accepts - it is explainable by the similarity of pseudonymns and the fact there were other examples on LibCom of the same thing which were allowed to stand. He'd stated "You disagreed with danny, man that's pretty fucking low." which implied I was some established and respected forum bully rather than a newcomer arguing a point on my own. He'd also said he'd tried to attend a Bowden demo and so it seemed hypocritical of him to decry John then - in fact he later explained he was coming to meet the group and not support the cause, but he hadn't explained that at the time so it did seem hypocritical. He could easily have attended any of the meetings but hadn't kept in touch so perhaps didn't realise that. And failing to condemn or trying to excuse rape-jokes is beneath any anarchist, a fact LibCom admins have yet to acknowledge. I feel at this point they simply don't want to concede the slightest, most justified point, some machismo thing about not admitting error which is just as shameful as the error itself.
Now I offered the compromise of distributing the leaflet without the LibCom adverts, but I would also be prepared to distribute the leaflet with a warning sticker on the front stating 'Warning:LibCom finds rape funny' - is that acceptable ?
"libcom's been getting sniped at ever since it oriented away from the activist sub-culture towards class struggle."
I'm a working-class activist uninvolved in any sub-culture. Supporting class-struggle means more than wage increases or job security, it has to address the fact twice as many working class people are imprisoned in the UK as in Norway.
"the largest wave of direct action in years "
This is a recurrent and curious claim. I think someone else estimated 400,000 direct actions and that was far more than the unestimated number of anti-war direct-actions. If it is true then it remarkbly ineffectual - what exactly do you count as direct-action ?
Danny
Libcom admin, what a bunch of middle class tossers! enough is enough!
08.08.2007 11:42
Aunty Christ
Libcom admin, what a bunch of middle class tossers! enough is enough!
08.08.2007 11:44
Aunty Christ
1 simple, unanswered question
08.08.2007 12:58
Now I've obviously been using the rape-joke as a stick to beat them with. So why give me the stick when they could easily take it from me ? That indicates poor judgement as well as poor taste. They think my comments here are offensive to LibCom but if they moderated their own forum to a minimal level of decency then I wouldn't have been able to criticise them on this thread. I don't mind being called a nutter by someone who can't debate a point as I think it reflects worse on them than me not to be able to out-argue a nutter.
I get the impression some LibCom posters think supporting class-struggle is mutully exclusive with supporting other issues such as anti-war, environmentalism, anti-fascism, feminism, prisoner support and human rights. I think this comes from the collapse of the left-wing parties in the west of Scotland and feuds that have nothing to do with me, and I find it regrettable and mistaken. While some people choose to concentrate on particular issues, they are interlinked To adopt a stance that is deliberately exclusive and provocative to people who don't share your priorty and yet invoke a 'solidarity' that isn't reciprocated is damaging.
Jokes about rape wouldn't be tolerated in a peace camp, a union meeting or any other progressive forum. I personally think the postal leaflet is the best thing they've done in years ( being snidey I'd say the only thing ) and would like to support it even though I dislike the site. If LibCom cleaned up their forum then I would, or if they suggested a way to support the postal workers without promoting LibCom then I would.
As it is though, I remain stuck on the question I have asked several times without answer - how can I recommend a forum that allows jokes about rape to any postal worker, let alone a female one ? Is there a LibCom admin who'd like to answer that ?
Danny
Thanks Libcom...
08.08.2007 14:52
1) If Libcom is done by a group of "middle class retards" then we could do with a hell of a lot more "middle class retards" in anarchism (does the use of the word "retard" in this thread mean you wouldn't hand out Indymedia publicity, Danny?).
2) "Any joke about rape encourages an atmosphere that helps the act be rationalised". What exactly do you mean? Is it that any joke about rape encourages it or merely 'rationalises' it? Plenty of people make jokes about murder, for example, but I don't think that necessarily encourages anyone to do it or creates an atmosphere where its more accepted.
3) I'm not sure if I'm right or not, but there was a Danny on Indymedia advocating voting in the recent Scottish elections in order to bring about Scottish independence. Surely this can't be the same Danny who was throwing around accusations of being "statist" on Libcom?
PS As one of the many people who lurk on Libcom but never really posts I'd agree that at times it can get overly personal and critical and that this is a problem. However, its been a major influence in stopping me getting sucked into lifestylism, ensuring that I don't assume any action or group deserves support simply because it labels itself "anarchist" or "anti-authoritarian", assisted my move towards a genuine class analysis and generally pushed me into being more critical in my politics. Plus, they came up with the stunning and very amusing idea of "Revol68".
Dave
Dave
08.08.2007 15:39
If jokes about the mentally-handicapped were allowed to stand, excused and defended by the admins here or anywhere then I'd oppose that too just as forceably. I personally find the word retard offensive and regrettable but it was used in anger and doesn't necessarily imply disability, it can mean stupidity. It is an excellent example though because the IMCistas had a big debate about that word recently, whereas I couldn't see the LibCom admins even noticing it, debating it or removing it. Not when there they can't see the problem with a joke about rape which I'd bet wouldn't have stood here for a moment nor caused any debate by it's instant removal.
"Is it that any joke about rape encourages it or merely 'rationalises' it? "
Well, it sets a precedent. Say someone on LibCom next week joked to another poster that 'I'm going to rape you' or 'She deserves to be raped'. Revol68 tried to excuse himself by saying the joke only works because we know rape to be terrible but the same excuse could always be used. I don't know Revol so I don't know his attitude to rape, I'll take him at his word on that, but a huge amount of men obviously do see rape as acceptable given the statistics and so any such 'humour' is unacceptable. I find it worrying to have to explain that to anyone who considers themselves an anarchist.
"Surely this can't be the same Danny who was throwing around accusations of being "statist" on Libcom?"
Hey, it is flattering you are doing your homework on me. Yes, I both support Scottish independence and oppose the future Scottish state that would follow for reasons I explained on that thread. Sorry if that blows your mind but I don't see that as contradictory nor have I met an anarchist has put forward a rational argument against it - if they had I may have changed my opinion. I'm not a statist but I am a pacifist, anti-nuclear, anti-UK, anti-NATO and see independence as a short-cut to those things. I can comfortably argue that position here in depth if you really want to distract from this thread even further - or is that simply an attempt to imply I'm a hypocrite ?
Danny
To Danny
08.08.2007 16:34
No – wasn’t doing any homework on you at all. Its just that the statement you made about supporting Scottish independence stuck in my mind as symptomatic of a certain viewpoint and I remembered it from that (and the fact I’ve a friend called Dan). Don’t flatter yourself that I’d done any checking on your previous posts. Basically your position is as “statist” as that of the SSP, large chunks of whom would equally argue in favour of Scottish independence but the eventual dissolution of the state. I don’t really want an argument here on that and of course your view is entirely consistent with being anti-UK and anti-EU etc etc. However, if you call yourself an anarchist (I think you might have on the original thread, but may be wrong) and certainly if you throw around the word “statist” as an insult and yet advocate not only voting in elections but voting for the constitution of a new state you’re being, at the least, very loose with your vocab.
Dave
not one bit ashamed
08.08.2007 17:53
As for voting, Noam Chomsky and Utah Phillips - the official singer of the IWW- both recommended voting against the Iraq war after a lifetime of recommending not voting. From someone of their stature and principle I'd take lessons on anarchist ethics, rather than someone who still has failed to see any problem with jokes about male violence against women.
Danny
the irony
08.08.2007 18:09
on the pull
Missing the points...
08.08.2007 18:42
Your defence of your stance of voting also fails to answer any of my points, rather being just an exercise in name dropping. Additionally, you’ve made the entirely false suggestion that I “failed to see any problems with jokes about male violence against women” which is complete nonsense. As should be blatantly obvious, I’ve merely questioned the absolute disjointed crap you’ve spoken about one joke and, in fact, have said some jokes about this subject matter should be rightly clamped down on.
Basically you posted some rubbish on Libcom, failed to back up your arguments, got rightly called on it and, in spite, have vindictively written rubbish on a thread designed to support striking workers. Perhaps I should get Chomsky and Phillips to say something about this in their next “lessons on anarchist ethics”.
Dave
Hah!
08.08.2007 21:17
Now THAT's irony!
Ms. Edna Krabappel
Now that's what I Call Smear
09.08.2007 01:43
with such a litany of crimes, and admitting trying to get me arrested ' and 'lose everything', it is odd that the only thing you get police to question me over was a post on IM joking about burning down a Labour party building, after taking my sick parents into questioning. Although the police told me that information came through crimestoppers and they didn't believe it they did let slip to my mother it was nonsense but they had to take it seriously since the information came down from on high. I'm not even a firestarter and would never abuse, rape or even lift my hand to a woman in anger, I'd kill myself before I raped. I've committed no crimes except breach of the peace and malicious mischief ie fencecutting. Oh, and speeding I suppose.
It's true I was so concerned over your behaviour that I warned the mother of a girl I'd been dating that I thought you were a potential menace. You'd attacked a girl before and were acting and talking obessively about her. I believe you to be an agent but the offer still holds of a lie-detector test to prove your innocence - and I'd be happy to sit one too.
Danny
Ever the total liar
09.08.2007 05:19
"If he jokes about me needing viagra again, I will strip him and fuck him there and then, and I've never threatened to rape anyone before. "
Ms. Edna Krabappel
Okay
09.08.2007 07:09
Danny
we'll help out!
10.08.2007 09:01
Well done, you know its appreciated.
Victory to the posties - victory to the workers.
Sheffield Anarchist Federation
Shef AF
e-mail:
sheffield@af-north.org
Homepage:
http://afed.org.uk
us too
10.08.2007 17:15
Brighton SolFed
distroing ??
10.08.2007 20:34
Aunty Christ
Libcom are hierarchical and unelected - self promoting
20.08.2007 13:58
But, they have an arrogant elitist attitude, and Raw was right, they are not known, have done nothing, and yet they pretend they are 'it'. I think it is time for them to be brought down a peg or 2.
Scottish Postie
e-mail:
fucklibcom@praxis.com